Metro Jacksonville

Community => News => Topic started by: iluvolives on May 01, 2013, 04:02:42 PM

Title: Slate.com- Jacksonville, FL is the most average place in America
Post by: iluvolives on May 01, 2013, 04:02:42 PM
Saw this on Slate.com today:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/05/01/jacksonville_is_average.html

Tyler Cowen offers a distressingly un-systematic look at the question of what is the most perfectly average place in America, recapitulating the excessively anti-urban bias of conventional thinking about the American character.

He offers as his candidate Knoville, Tennessee, which has a metropolitan area of just 824,000 people. Fully 180 million Americans live in larger metropolitan areas than Knoxville. The larger Tennessee city of Memphis is almost spot on the average, but I'd say Memphis is a bit too distinctive to qualify as "perfectly average". Fortunately for us, if you rank U.S. metro areas by population size and then add up the cumulative totals, you get the conclusion that the median American lives in the Jacksonville, Florida metropolitan area. And Jacksonville, though it may have its virtues, is not especially distinctive or noteworthy. It's a great example of a generic American city. It's in the south, but not really all that southern. It's on the coast, but it's not "coastal". And since the City of Jacksonville is consolidated with Duvall County, it doesn't feature any kind of urban-suburban divide. The typical Jacksonviller, just like the typical American, lives in an auto-oriented, suburban-style community that's part of an integrated urban area. In educational terms, Jacksonville has fewer high school dropouts than the average American city and also fewer college graduates than the average American city. In other words, its citizens are exceptionally average in their educational attainment.

If you're ever in the Jacksonville area and get the chance to visit the White Oak Conservation Center, I'd recommend it. Very much a non-average experience.

Title: Re: Slate.com- Jacksonville, FL is the most average place in America
Post by: billy on May 01, 2013, 06:48:02 PM
I did not mean to be so flip, but this is an absurd article.

Is the Saint Johns an "average" river, certainly not in length, breadth or fecal count.
What about our vast consolidated land mass, parts of which remain uncharted, even today

Has Mr. Cowen ever had a Lubi, or a Swisher Sweet Grape Blunt?
How many gas station cigars does his hometown produce?

What about the Byzantine magnificence of a certain NFL owners facial hair?
Arthur Blank's mustache looks like a 1930's matinee gigolo.

We have history, and culture.
What about Fort Caroline, and the Neil Diamond song it inspired?
There's a reason  this city is named for a stone killer psychopath. 

Substandard in certain aspects, perhaps, average, no way.
Title: Re: Slate.com- Jacksonville, FL is the most average place in America
Post by: David on May 01, 2013, 08:06:06 PM
QuoteAnd since the city of Jacksonville is consolidated with Duval County, it doesn't feature any kind of urban-suburban divide

He's definitely wrong on that one. I rarely left Riverside & San Marco when I lived over there. The concept of driving out to "the burbs" was foreign to me.

Overall, it's not necessarily a jab at the city, it does fit the view of my hometown. Jacksonville: like limbo. Not the best but not the worst!
Title: Re: Slate.com- Jacksonville, FL is the most average place in America
Post by: IronDonut on May 01, 2013, 08:30:36 PM
This is exactly what I've been saying for the last ten years: "Jacksonville is the most mediocre large city in America."  It is to cities what Olive Garden is to restaurants.  Not terrible.  Good in a lot of ways.  But also not great. Just average.

Two things that aren't average about Jacksonville;

1. Beer - this is a god damn beer city. I just came back from an NYC trip and the beer scene there sucks compared to JAX.

2. Pizza - this is a pizza city. There is some great fucking pie here in JAX.  I can get a pie as good in JAX as you can get at Lombardi's in NYC. 

But then if you think about it beer and pizza are pretty middle class and blue collar.  Which would stand to reason that America's most average city would be great at making the most average of foods and drinks.

I propose a new city motto: Jacksonville - we are great at average things.

Who is with me?
Title: Re: Slate.com- Jacksonville, FL is the most average place in America
Post by: Cheshire Cat on May 01, 2013, 08:50:14 PM
Quote from: IronDonut on May 01, 2013, 08:30:36 PM
This is exactly what I've been saying for the last ten years: "Jacksonville is the most mediocre large city in America."  It is to cities what Olive Garden is to restaurants.  Not terrible.  Good in a lot of ways.  But also not great. Just average.

Two things that aren't average about Jacksonville;

1. Beer - this is a god damn beer city. I just came back from an NYC trip and the beer scene there sucks compared to JAX.

2. Pizza - this is a pizza city. There is some great fucking pie here in JAX.  I can get a pie as good in JAX as you can get at Lombardi's in NYC. 

But then if you think about it beer and pizza are pretty middle class and blue collar.  Which would stand to reason that America's most average city would be great at making the most average of foods and drinks.

I propose a new city motto: Jacksonville - we are great at average things.

Who is with me?
Hi IronDonut and welcome to the forum. :)

Is Jacksonville mediocre in all things save pizza and beer? 
Naw, there is a bunch of cool stuff that goes on here. lol  The problem with articles like this is that they are "drive thru" opinions.  To find cool, ya gotta be cool.  The author of the article obviously doesn't live here.   
Title: Re: Slate.com- Jacksonville, FL is the most average place in America
Post by: jcjohnpaint on May 01, 2013, 08:55:26 PM
I'll tell you what... I think the water is Jax and NYC are similar.  We can make a very distinct crust that I have not found anywhere aside from NY and Jersey.  As for the article... quite sub par.  Really reaching man.  I think you could have put any city in the place of Jax and had the same argument. 
Title: Re: Slate.com- Jacksonville, FL is the most average place in America
Post by: Cheshire Cat on May 01, 2013, 09:00:01 PM
Quote from: stephendare on May 01, 2013, 08:56:14 PM
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on May 01, 2013, 08:50:14 PM
Quote from: IronDonut on May 01, 2013, 08:30:36 PM
This is exactly what I've been saying for the last ten years: "Jacksonville is the most mediocre large city in America."  It is to cities what Olive Garden is to restaurants.  Not terrible.  Good in a lot of ways.  But also not great. Just average.

Two things that aren't average about Jacksonville;

1. Beer - this is a god damn beer city. I just came back from an NYC trip and the beer scene there sucks compared to JAX.

2. Pizza - this is a pizza city. There is some great fucking pie here in JAX.  I can get a pie as good in JAX as you can get at Lombardi's in NYC. 

But then if you think about it beer and pizza are pretty middle class and blue collar.  Which would stand to reason that America's most average city would be great at making the most average of foods and drinks.

I propose a new city motto: Jacksonville - we are great at average things.

Who is with me?
Hi IronDonut and welcome to the forum. :)

Is Jacksonville mediocre in all things save pizza and beer? 
Naw, there is a bunch of cool stuff that goes on here. lol  The problem with articles like this is that they are "drive thru" opinions.  To find cool, ya gotta be cool.  The author of the article obviously doesn't live here.

a median average isnt the same thing as 'mediocre'.  New York is an average megalopolis, after all.
^Very valid point Stephen. 
Title: Re: Slate.com- Jacksonville, FL is the most average place in America
Post by: simms3 on May 01, 2013, 10:39:44 PM
I second the pizza and beer (though beer is a tricky one, some of the major cities aren't good beer scenes but there are tons of smaller cities that make Jacksonville look like it doesn't even have Budweiser).

It's not bad to be average because average isn't bad, but like others have said - Jax isn't great either.  Always something to look up to I suppose.  I think the article is more about identity than anything else - just be great (or horrible) at something to put you on the map.  It goes along with the local employment/real estate market too...just humming along but no real/defined drivers that would cause someone to take a bet for or against the city.
Title: Re: Slate.com- Jacksonville, FL is the most average place in America
Post by: Tacachale on May 01, 2013, 11:14:18 PM
Lame. As the Peruvians say, ampay.
Title: Re: Slate.com- Jacksonville, FL is the most average place in America
Post by: jcjohnpaint on May 01, 2013, 11:20:36 PM
I think politicians in this city fight really hard to make Jax an average city.  I have been surprised since I have been here how many great grass roots orgs exist in this city/ along with secret, but profound histories. 
Title: Re: Slate.com- Jacksonville, FL is the most average place in America
Post by: TheCat on May 02, 2013, 11:35:28 AM
Pho & Bun city.
Title: Re: Slate.com- Jacksonville, FL is the most average place in America
Post by: Seth Langner on May 02, 2013, 11:49:49 AM
Half of America is below average.
Title: Re: Slate.com- Jacksonville, FL is the most average place in America
Post by: KenFSU on May 02, 2013, 11:53:00 AM
If this was truly the case, you'd think Jacksonville would see way more test marketing a la a city like Columbus.
Title: Re: Slate.com- Jacksonville, FL is the most average place in America
Post by: BrooklynSouth on May 02, 2013, 02:47:03 PM
What the article really meant was Jacksonville is the most typically American city in America. That's something to be proud of. And it means that we, as a city and as residents, have the ingredients to go in any direction we choose.

Title: Re: Slate.com- Jacksonville, FL is the most average place in America
Post by: subro on May 02, 2013, 02:49:47 PM
Quote from: IronDonut on May 01, 2013, 08:30:36 PM

2. Pizza - this is a pizza city. There is some great fucking pie here in JAX.  I can get a pie as good in JAX as you can get at Lombardi's in NYC. 


What are you high? Jacksonville has okay pizza compared to most states but it is not even close to NY Pizza. Other than that, welcome to the Forum.
Title: Re: Slate.com- Jacksonville, FL is the most average place in America
Post by: Cheshire Cat on May 02, 2013, 04:38:52 PM
Quote from: subro on May 02, 2013, 02:49:47 PM
Quote from: IronDonut on May 01, 2013, 08:30:36 PM

2. Pizza - this is a pizza city. There is some great fucking pie here in JAX.  I can get a pie as good in JAX as you can get at Lombardi's in NYC. 


What are you high? Jacksonville has okay pizza compared to most states but it is not even close to NY Pizza. Other than that, welcome to the Forum.
Beyond the argument over pizza and beer, what is missed by many people including the one who authored the piece at the beginning of this thread is the reality that Jacksonville is blessed with many innovative, creative and exceptional people.  That truth often gets overlooked or lost when anyone, including those who live here make shallow judgments about who and what we are. There is magic in Jacksonville and one only needs to open their eyes to see past mediocre and directly at the exciting things happening here driven by innovators, artists and many fine citizens.
Title: Re: Slate.com- Jacksonville, FL is the most average place in America
Post by: Shine on May 11, 2013, 09:11:53 AM
Failing to see the truth in this article is not going to build a positive future.  When I came to Jacksonville 26 years ago, this town was certainly a “late bloomer.”  But being behind meant it could catch up using all the knowledge and foresight of the successes and errors of other urbanized modern cities.  What did we do?  One strip mall after the next.  Making Jacksonville one of the highest per-capital strip mall cities in America. Coupled with a commercial landscape code that would be well suited for the desert southwest, lets ride Beach or Atlantic Blvd into town and try to find something “pretty” in that mix.      Understated traffic studies and under assessed impact fees â€" top 10 for most dangerous roads â€" both the list for pedestrians and drivers.  Latest move, cut mobility fees so we can have more 7-11s.  A lot of what Jacksonville could have been has been lost.  Every day is another step closer to “Generica.”   Jax Beach is a good case study of better practice â€" from skank to swank â€" it’s a hell of a turnaround story.  Even Ponte Vedra, with meaningful architectural controls (beach access is another issue) shows the impact of planning on eventual community value.  Philosophically, Down Town is getting it right in that it is no longer an “anything goes” planning process.  If 25 year ago, we treated Jacksonville growth with the care we currenlyt show for DT, we would not have many of the problems we currently have.  You have to admit where you are â€" define where you want to go.  Be willing to make sacrifices to get there.  If your goals are smply “jobs” and “low cost housing,” you are setting your standards no higher than a 3rd world country.And the truth is, when you talk about urban problems with leadership, you inevitably hear: “we if you think it’s bad here, consider how bad it is in (insert favorite urban hell-hole city here).  So, its not even about being “average” â€" it becomes the race to stay out of last place.  Have we talked murder rates yet?  Got first place on that one.
Title: Re: Slate.com- Jacksonville, FL is the most average place in America
Post by: tufsu1 on May 11, 2013, 10:11:55 AM
not sure that's a fair assessment....Jax. is still a wonderful place and the envy of many communities