Metro Jacksonville

Quote
JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- The house is in historical Durkeville, but the city says the house is not an historical home.

"Our house is over one hundred years old," said Lynette Myers,"and we would like to keep it in the family."

Myers is now leading a fight to save their home from a wrecking ball.

"This is our family home this is all the legacy we have left of our family," she said.

The city's  Municipal Code Compliance Division cited the property as an unsafe structure in 1999, that was two years after it was damaged by fire.

more

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=309370

Here's the kicker

Quote

...

City officials said the condition of the building has been the bane of complaints from at least two residents, and the fact that the family has another building on West 6th street in a similar situation.

City officials said the Myers house is now listing and poses a potential hazard to the house next door, the street and the people who walk the sidewalks. The city then made the decision to demolish the building.

...

Looks like a job for mothballing - or it could have been 16 years ago.

Is the city going to pay the people for their house?

I have to side with the city on this one.  It was damaged by a fire in 1997, cited in 1999, fines didn't start until 2005, 6 years after it was cited.  It has now been nearly 14 years since it was originally cited and 16 years since the fire.  How much more time do they need to fix it?

Why doesn't the city take the houses instead of demolishing them?  If they have been fining these people for 14 years I am sure the fines far exceed the value of the property.  SIEZE it.  Resell it with the stipulations the issues must be addressed.  Do they not do that anywhere else?  Seems much more cost effective than razing the building for a vacant lot worth $5k.

Quote from: acme54321 on April 18, 2013, 01:21:17 PM
Why doesn't the city take the houses instead of demolishing them?  If they have been fining these people for 14 years I am sure the fines far exceed the value of the property.  SIEZE it.  Resell it with the stipulations the issues must be addressed.  Do they not do that anywhere else?  Seems much more cost effective than razing the building for a vacant lot worth $5k.

Preach It!!

(only  add that the city mothballs it in there somewhere)

Code enforcement can repair or demolish.  Have them repair (ie mothball) and then change ownership of the house.  Probably cost what demo costs (to mothball). 

Quote from: Tacachale on April 18, 2013, 08:50:26 AM
Here's the kicker

Quote

...

City officials said the condition of the building has been the bane of complaints from at least two residents, and the fact that the family has another building on West 6th street in a similar situation.

City officials said the Myers house is now listing and poses a potential hazard to the house next door, the street and the people who walk the sidewalks. The city then made the decision to demolish the building.

...

Looks like a job for mothballing - or it could have been 16 years ago.

only "historic" properties qualify for mothballing (although Bill Killingsworth saw this as a city-wide plan for all vacant properties).

The owners could get landmark status.

Quote from: acme54321 on April 18, 2013, 01:21:17 PM
Why doesn't the city take the houses instead of demolishing them?  If they have been fining these people for 14 years I am sure the fines far exceed the value of the property.  SIEZE it.  Resell it with the stipulations the issues must be addressed.  Do they not do that anywhere else?  Seems much more cost effective than razing the building for a vacant lot worth $5k.

In Charleston, you wouldn't be able to tear this structure down if you wanted too.  That goes for the areas north of US 17 just as much as the popular preserved downtown south of the highway.  It would be interesting to see a cost/economic comparison on the utilization of tax dollars for repair vs. demolition.

I have heard MCCD employees state time and time again that a house is listing, or leaning or otherwise  about to fall down onto the unsuspecting public.  Time and time again, the house is still vertical and not in danger of falling over within the next few decades several years later after those under oath declarations.  I suspect this house to be the same.

Heck, I heard and watched a professional engineer from Atlantic Engineering fall in line with what a supposed expert employee from MCCD wanted done - that is just take the back of a house off.  Of course, one look up and one could see that the roof structure was continuous so take the back and you have to take the entire house.  Which is what they really wanted to do.  Or how about the time it took two trips to inspect a house by the same Atlantic Engineering employee within two or three days - the first one said the house was structurally OK, the second was that it was about to fall down.  Is there any doubt that Ms Scott gets what she wants? And that what she wants is to give work to her Demolition contractor buddies? Or maybe it just looks good on her resume that she had x number of houses torn down during her tenure. Who knows.

I do know that you can not trust what a city department chief or her employees say about the condition of a structure.

As an aside, the ordinace code already gives the power to MCCD to repair a structure rather than demolish it.  I many cases, think mothballing as a far less expensive alternative to demolition. It is Ms Scott's policy to ignore that part of the code though.

I guess now it is time for code to pick on someone else.  Too bad.  I read a lot and have not read about a city where code enforcement gets all hot and bothered on a regular basis about old neglected homes.  Code needs to mothball, plain and simple.  Less cost involved than demolition.  I have mothballed several homes and big whoop.  IF I CAN DO IT, SO CAN THEY!  Sustainability and preservation are important, just not in Jacksonville. 

Durkeville homes need protection --

Yes, they do.  Durkeeville is just about the last historically black area of town where there are an abundance of early 20th century homes similar to what exists in Springfield and Riverside.  It was developed in an era when when black doctors, businessmen, etc. didn't have the right to select neighborhoods all of the city to live in.  We've already erased neighborhoods like Sugar Hill and LaVilla from existence.   With assets like the old negro league ballpark, Stanton, the S-Line and Edward Waters, show a little love and care and its a walkable neighborhood that can easily turn around just as quick as King Street has in the last couple of years. 

With that in mind, here's an interesting map I've come across over the last month (sorry, it's a blurry cell phone pic):

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Neighborhoods/St-Johns-Park/i-QRdLLcG/0/M/IMG_20130402_131830-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Neighborhoods/St-Johns-Park/i-V43CWrh/0/M/IMG_20130402_131844-M.jpg)

It's an early 20th century marketing map for St. Johns Park. That neighborhood's developer marketed it as a place for residents who wanted to be far and away from the designated black areas of town.  So, it highlights the black areas as red.  The majority of these red areas were dominated with shotgun housing and small wood frame structures. A few, such as Durkeeville and Sugar Hill were home to a number of stately residences. Unfortunately, we've wiped out most of these areas for the construction of I-95 and the expansion of the hospitals that now make up Shands Jacksonville. When comparing this map to what exists in today's environment, it's easy to see why Durkeeville is worth preserving, IMO.

Great owner background info on the family and neighborhood. Thank you both.
Separate but related. I was told that the childhood home of Zora Neale Hurston was demolished today in Jax.
Moving forward on this house.
I understand there is a request for this house to have landmark status.
There's a cog in the wheel.
And potentially a step towards preserving the home which is most important.

^Do you know the address of the Zora Neale Thurston residence?  If true, something like that could easily be the powder keg to preserving what's left.  Honestly, since we've never really valued black history in this town, there's no telling what the significance is of structures being demolished in neighborhoods who's residents lack a strong voice or influence at city hall.

Sheclown.
1477 Evergreen
Floral Shop

It's exceeding unlikely that that's Hurston's "childhood home" considering she didn't live in Jacksonville as a child. She went to boarding school here at Florida Baptist Academy as a teenager, and later lived here as a young adult. I'm not sure anyone knows all the places she would have lived. Most of them were probably in Sugar Hill and are likely long gone.

Sheclown has articles to post.
She stayed here with family.
Has pic of the building demolished today.
She'll start thread.

Here's 1477 Evergreen.

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Other/mi/i-gMB9WvP/0/M/eastside%20house-M.jpg)

The Eastside is a working class historically black neighborhood, who's history has also not been properly covered.  It's a place that historically had New Orleans 9th Ward style density and Florida Avenue (A. Philip Randolph) was just as vibrant and dense as LaVilla's Ashley Street.  I came here in 2003 and over the past decade, just about have of that commercial district has been leveled with nothing but grass, weeds and broken concrete foundations left.  Here's a few shots to give readers an impression of what the Eastside looks like today:

(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-1024-dcp_9898.JPG)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Neighborhoods/The-Eastside-October-2010/i-wgnjKdf/0/M/P1410789-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Neighborhoods/The-Eastside-October-2010/i-zn2ZtP3/0/M/P1410743-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Neighborhoods/The-Eastside-October-2010/i-f5M2cvg/0/M/P1410659-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Neighborhoods/Florida-Avenue-Commercial/i-9SqpXSr/0/M/P1480264-M.jpg)
^What good is a town center streetscape project if we keep ripping down the commercial buildings that have historically lined the street?  This corridor's chance at a King Street style grass roots revival reduces with every additional building becoming tailgate parking.

I hope to have another book out by the end of the year that will cover Jacksonville's urban core neighborhoods in a similar fashion to the buildings covered in Reclaiming Jacksonville.  One of my core reasons for doing this is to expose the rich history of places like Durkeeville, Eastside, Moncrief, Brentwood, Panama Park, etc.

Speaking of Durkeeville's architectural quality, does anyone know what happened with their efforts to get designated as a historic district?  Here are a few shots of what remains today:

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/493693729_cszFM-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/493696206_gL3B9-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/493697423_ogGqo-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/493693223_qpKrD-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/493694227_eu7nU-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/493695446_7UtiA-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/493695647_BpPr6-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/493696033_LS2vc-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/493696903_923VP-M.jpg)

Out of all of urban Jacksonville's overlooked distressed neighborhoods, this one seems like the easiest to turn around to me.  However, a better future means building upon the assets of what exists. Btw, this is the same neighborhood where COJ approved a suburban cheap Family Dollar at its main intersection.  To make way for this metal box, asphalt parking lot and retention pond, a 100 year old brick commercial building up against the street was demolished.

Lake you are definitely right about the Eastside. It has a chance to become Jax's next great urban neighborhood but that gets diminished every time an empty lot emerges right in the middle of the historical business district. It's not as if new construction will happen there any time soon. It's really sad.

Quote from: Tacachale on April 19, 2013, 05:33:01 PM
It's exceeding unlikely that that's Hurston's "childhood home" considering she didn't live in Jacksonville as a child. She went to boarding school here at Florida Baptist Academy as a teenager, and later lived here as a young adult. I'm not sure anyone knows all the places she would have lived. Most of them were probably in Sugar Hill and are likely long gone.

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,18092.new.html#new

Quote from: stephendare on April 19, 2013, 12:07:45 AM
The resident that has driven this demolition was at the last city council meeting.  He seemed like a real piece of work, and was smugly asking to demolish this home as a 'present' to him for his upcoming bar be sue.

The two women who own the house have been in ill health and havent been able to fix the property which they have had for decades.

They burst into tears at the council in public trying to understand why this man's desire to have a better 'view' was more important than them having their home.

I was disgusted with the bastard, frankly.  He made very light of their pain, and couldnt have given a flying shit about their lives.

If he wants something done with the property so badly, why not take his bar be que hosting ass over and volunteer to help the two women out?

This isnt the City, as far as I could tell.  It was more of the same evil neighborhood victimization that Springfield used to have to endure at the hands of Louise DeSpain and Eva Ayres.

Sounds like the Springfield plastics story. Poor old person got sick and let their property turn to crap. Now everybody has to put up with it otherwise youre antipoor people and have no heart or prodemolition. Not all homes can realisticsally be saved. Charlestons economics are very different than Jacksonville. Not everyhome SHOULD be saved. Anything can be saved for a price but thats not realistic. The city should sieze properties, at least that would be a long term solution but in the meantime there are hundreds of houses that are rotting and are not economically viable to rehab. At somepoint they are better coming down than keeping up for another 100 years in derelict shape. Is there a matrix that determines if a house is salvagable or not?

The only thing different about Charleston's economy from Jacksonville is that they made a decision to stand firm behind historic preservation and that decision has led to a boom in their tourism market. I agree that it's unrealistic to save every single structure but I question if demolition is always the most cost effective answer for taxpayer dollars.

(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/sheclown2/frontporch1.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/sheclown2/media/frontporch1.jpg.html)

(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/sheclown2/side.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/sheclown2/media/side.jpg.html)

(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/sheclown2/underneath1-1.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/sheclown2/media/underneath1-1.jpg.html)

(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/sheclown2/underneath2.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/sheclown2/media/underneath2.jpg.html)

House looks pretty good underneath with the exception of the back corner pier.  Much better than many in Springfield, actually.

Mothballing would deal with the "ugly factor" which bothers the neighbor

Indeed it would.  Those turned posts on the porch.  Love.  The siding is likely protecting some pretty awesome original siding.  Love.  The destruction MUST end.  We need to speak for the houses.  Period. 

Get this.  Asbestos siding with aluminum siding over top of that.  Yes, somewhere there is wood siding!!  Probably pretty well protected.

For those looking for the Zora Neale Hurston discussion, I merged those comments into the thread about the Hurston flower shop's demolition, which occurred yesterday in the Eastside:

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,18092.msg325346/topicseen.html#new

A hundred year old house in Durkeville is equal to a hundred year old house in Springfield or in Riverside.  It has seen the same wear from the feet of dozens of families, felt the same seasons, fought through the same elements.  It is made from the same lumber aged and grown through the ages.

No arbitrary boundaries set by us change this fact.

So, did this thing get torn down or what?

Not yet. Sewer line cut though.

I do not understand why people hang on to houses that they cannot keep up and repair.  Just sell it already!

We have one in our neighborhood that has been vacant for over ten years with no upkeep.  Mother died in the house and daughter locked it and walked away and has never been back.  Furniture and clothes are still there.  Taxes are paid every year, but the City has had to board up the broken windows and open door and cut the yard.  Vagrants were living inside and the neighbors were scared.

In this case the house has been in their family for over 100 years. 

Something needs to be done about Durkeville.  The old homes need to be protected. 

And I would gather you mean that to be "Nationally Recognized Historic or Not."  I agree.
Does Jacksonville have any locally recognized historic areas? 
Long Beach CA is filled with them.  LOCALLY recognized.  Lots of the same rules as National honestly.  Cute historic street signs too. 

I don't know their full history but here are two more Durkeeville houses on the demo list:

1481 West 6th Street
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Other/mi/i-nv98P6C/0/M/1481%20W%206th%20St-M.jpg)

^This house is the other home owned by Lynnette Myers.  It was constructed in 1924. That's two decent early 20th century houses owned by the same family.  I wonder what's the story of their family members who lived a century ago?

1533 West 6th Street
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Other/mi/i-mDspmSH/0/M/1533%20W%206th%20St-M.jpg)

^This house was constructed in 1922 and is currently owned by Edward Oates, Jr.

You can find both of these residences on this demo bidding list:
(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/sheclown2/demolist.jpg)

The two Myers sisters spoke at a recent council meeting.  I believe they were speaking about the house on Myrtle Avenue. 

Two family homes under demolition threat at the same time?

Durkeville has lost a significant amount of historic structures over the years.  It needs to stop.

And the city needs to have a strong reason why it is targeting these structures simultaneously.

one by one the houses fall, just like dominos.  very sad.  Savannah and Charleston, and many other communites understand the value of a complete neighborhood.  The more houses go down the less the remaining are worth, with regard to dollar value, since the vacant lots are not being used to build new historic style homes.  The integrity is lost.  All of the historic areas need to have protection, and justification.  Demo as a last resort.  If someone can't afford the repairs, adding fines and liens will not help.  There needs to be full, open communication, so there are no surprises to the neighborhood.  Who is really behind all of these?  Why the rush?  What is the true cost of demo (significant damage to the area, no chance of return to glory) such as Florida Ave (A. Phillip Randolph)  You can't revive an area that is totally gone.  Have they not learned from Lavilla?

Quote from: sheclown on April 24, 2013, 08:42:47 AM
The two Myers sisters spoke at a recent council meeting.  I believe they were speaking about the house on Myrtle Avenue. 

Two family homes under demolition threat at the same time?

Durkeville has lost a significant amount of historic structures over the years.  It needs to stop.

And the city needs to have a strong reason why it is targeting these structures simultaneously.

The city already cited its reasons for the one structure and it seemed reasonable. The only option I see here is that the City takes title to the houses and auctions them to the highest bidder who agrees to restore them pursuant to defined terms.

^Something needs to be done, but I'm not sure we want the city to start playing land owner.

Quote from: Tacachale on April 24, 2013, 09:36:50 AM
^Something needs to be done, but I'm not sure we want the city to start playing land owner.

Well, the City took over most of the homes in LaVilla and we see what happened there. Of the hundreds of homes abutting downtown only five remain standing.  This is going to take a fresh new approach and it begins with showing the community and city leadership the value of Durkeville all over again.

Quote from: Tacachale on April 24, 2013, 09:36:50 AM
^Something needs to be done, but I'm not sure we want the city to start playing land owner.

Agree but these folks obviously cannot afford their homes, much less repair them to historic specifications. 

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 24, 2013, 09:42:43 AM

Quote from: Tacachale on April 24, 2013, 09:36:50 AM
^Something needs to be done, but I'm not sure we want the city to start playing land owner.

Well, the City took over most of the homes in LaVilla and we see what happened there. Of the hundreds of homes abutting downtown only five remain standing.  This is going to take a fresh new approach and it begins with showing the community and city leadership the value of Durkeville all over again.

What would you recommend?  Slapping a historic overlay over the area and making it that much more expensive to repair your home?  Not arguing with you but its too easy to say "take a fresh look." 

I don't think it needs to be one historic district after another (adding a burden to the city and the neighborhood which may not want it).    How about if someone wants to demolish a house (no matter where it is located) which is more than 50 years old, historic planning department has to sign off on it.  That's all. 

And we make sure the city allocates the personnel to do this.  A site visit, a quick look at the file, a report to HPC if appropriate.

Quote(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/sheclown2/6thst1.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/sheclown2/media/6thst1.jpg.html)

6th st

That black stuff is shingle like material that used to be used to cover exteriors.  There is wood siding below it.

(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/sheclown2/6thst2.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/sheclown2/media/6thst2.jpg.html)

The shingle siding is hiding a real house underneath

(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/sheclown2/6thst3.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/sheclown2/media/6thst3.jpg.html)

Interesting trim around the door.

Quote from: Kaiser Soze on April 24, 2013, 09:53:04 AM

Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 24, 2013, 09:42:43 AM

Quote from: Tacachale on April 24, 2013, 09:36:50 AM
^Something needs to be done, but I'm not sure we want the city to start playing land owner.

Well, the City took over most of the homes in LaVilla and we see what happened there. Of the hundreds of homes abutting downtown only five remain standing.  This is going to take a fresh new approach and it begins with showing the community and city leadership the value of Durkeville all over again.

What would you recommend?  Slapping a historic overlay over the area and making it that much more expensive to repair your home?  Not arguing with you but its too easy to say "take a fresh look." 

Fresh look as in rethink the situation and how it should be handled.  Taking that tact often creates new ideas about how to deal with a problem.  I know this because I took a fresh look at the core of Downtown Lake Worth many years ago and it resulted in the creation of a Main Street district, some grants and revitalization of many historic structures, which I oversaw and directed.  I am well aware of what is "easy" to say and even more aware of what it takes to "create change".  That is what I mean by fresh look.  ;)

Quote from: mbwright on April 24, 2013, 09:01:34 AM
one by one the houses fall, just like dominos.  very sad.  Savannah and Charleston, and many other communites understand the value of a complete neighborhood.  The more houses go down the less the remaining are worth, with regard to dollar value, since the vacant lots are not being used to build new historic style homes.  The integrity is lost.  All of the historic areas need to have protection, and justification.  Demo as a last resort.  If someone can't afford the repairs, adding fines and liens will not help.  There needs to be full, open communication, so there are no surprises to the neighborhood.  Who is really behind all of these?  Why the rush?  What is the true cost of demo (significant damage to the area, no chance of return to glory) such as Florida Ave (A. Phillip Randolph)  You can't revive an area that is totally gone.  Have they not learned from Lavilla?

+1
We need to save what we have.

Myrtle Avenue house is too far into the system to stop.  It will be demolished.  Historic planners tried to have it come up at tonight's hpc, but it is too late.

In RAP's video of Wayne Woods, he tells us that demolishing a structure and trucking the debris to the landfill  wipes out the positive effects of a neighborhood's recycling efforts for a whole year.

Think about that next time you crush your soda can and dump it in the blue box.

Jacksonville, get serious about saving historic structures, for the context and what each structure tells us about the people who walked this earth before us, for the greatly superior building components that will never be replicated in any lifetime, and for the impact that casually tossing away that which could be repaired has on our environment.

^Gloria, You have been awesome with taking pics of the demos. I drove around MLK parkway the other day and the building stock that has been leveled has to be in the 100's if not close to a 1000 structures. Not picking on you but this is right next to Springfield. What is your best guesstimate on what has been leveled for this road project? Do you happen to have any pics of the before and after?

Those are very good questions.  I don't.  Perhaps someone here has.

^The neighborhoods of Longbranch and Phoenix have been hit hard. First, with the construction of the 20th Street/Haines Street Expressway, which severed both communities from Kooker Park.  Now, with the interchange project, they've taken another hit.

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/2101278297_Q2CTmfr-600x1000.jpg)

In this 1920s plat map, you can see Kooker Park in the upper right corner. Kooker Avenue, eventually became Haines Street, which eventually became the Haines Street Expressway (now MLK Parkway), effectively cutting the community park off from the community it was platted to serve.  This would be like turning Riverside Avenue into an expressway and killing access between Memorial Park and Five Points. The 20th Street Expressway was built somewhere between Freeman and Jennings Street. Now with the current project, most of everything between 21st Street and Bishop (on the map above) has been leveled.  Below is the intersection of Bishop (18th) and Gardner (Franklin) from last fall.  This one little house is all that remains on that side of the street.

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/2097383503_d3q6Qdf-M.jpg)

Below, an aerial from of these blocks being eliminated for the 20th Street Expressway in the 1960s.  The red circle is the location of the current $30 million interchange project.

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1734505295_sJqjcw9-600x1000.jpg)

Here's the new interchange plan:

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1734505316_xgw53WQ-600x1000.jpg)

Kooker has now been turned into the type of park that people drive to in the Southside.  Too bad, the type of neighborhood isn't like Mandarin, Bartram Park or Julington Creek where people drive everywhere anyway. At the very least, there should have been an effort to mitigate the negative side of highway construction like this through a more context sensitive or complete streets design process.  Unfortunately, I believe the planning for this project happened prior to this movement, so those neighborhoods will end up with their main street (21st Street) being bordered with a suburban interchange full of FDOT retention ponds.  This will suck for the neighborhood kids trying to access that park from the neighborhoods north and west of Kooker Park.

Anyway, this interchange project to improve port accessibility and the safety of that sharp curve has been in the works for years.  It's too late to stop or alter these types of projects when you start noticing all of the houses being torn down at the same time.  The time for that was over a decade ago.

By the time they get around to projects in Jax, using plans from 10-15 years ago, neighborhood dynamics have changed.  But they don't update the plans.  Same thing happened when they (finally!) improved Main Street in Springfield.

But back to the Myrtle Avenue and 5th Street house.  I think it's 1504 Myrtle.  There is something wrong with a system when you hear "yes the house is still STANDING but it's gone too far in the system, so now it has to come down."  If an historic home is still STANDING there should be a way to stop the demo.

They are pulling off the aluminum siding

"my Grandma's house"

(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/sheclown2/grandmothershouse.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/sheclown2/media/grandmothershouse.jpg.html)

This is a powerful picture on SO many levels.  I can just shake my head in sadness.

Very sad indeed. 

I drove by yesterday to see if the house had been fully demolished and I saw the sisters sitting on their lot.

I pulled over to talk to them and asked them what they were doing. They told me that they were afraid someone would try to take what remains of the property from them. 

(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/sheclown2/meyerssisters.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/sheclown2/media/meyerssisters.jpg.html)

What I didn't know was that the sisters had filed an injunction against the city on April 25th.

https://core.duvalclerk.com/CoreCms.aspx

Case 16-2013-CA-003993-XXXX-MA

It goes before a judge.  Let's hope he rules in the sister's favor; however, he couldn't give them back what they have lost.

Quote from: sheclown on April 24, 2013, 12:17:18 PM

Quote(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/sheclown2/6thst1.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/sheclown2/media/6thst1.jpg.html)

6th st

That black stuff is shingle like material that used to be used to cover exteriors.  There is wood siding below it.

This house, belonging to the other sister, has been awarded to a demo contractor.  $8600 and the house comes down.  It could be landmarked and mothballed for this amount and a 100 year house could be saved.  When it comes down, this will be two significant pieces of Durkeville's history gone within weeks.

I spent the afternoon with the Meyers' sisters.  They showed me the 6th street house and gave me their story.  It is a great piece of Durkeville history.  The sisters are twins.  Their grandfather built the house on west 6th street for their other grandmother.  He built it with his brother's help.  The house is embellished with hand-carved trim illustrated below.  As Lynette says "Grandpa carved his finger prints to remind everyone that this was his house."

(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/sheclown2/exteriors.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/sheclown2/media/exteriors.jpg.html)

This is trim around the exterior on the front door.

all of the trim on the interior was hand-carved -- much of it is now missing, but some window trim remains

(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/sheclown2/windowtrim.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/sheclown2/media/windowtrim.jpg.html)

The door casing has been removed, but the carved plinth block remains.

(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/sheclown2/plinthblocks.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/sheclown2/media/plinthblocks.jpg.html)

(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/sheclown2/bathroom.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/sheclown2/media/bathroom.jpg.html)

Check out the baseboard

The chair rail is also carved.

(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/sheclown2/bathroomchairrail.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/sheclown2/media/bathroomchairrail.jpg.html)

(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/sheclown2/stairs.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/sheclown2/media/stairs.jpg.html)

Although the handrail and balusters are gone (and they were hand-carved as well), the staircase trim remains

(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/sheclown2/stairtrim.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/sheclown2/media/stairtrim.jpg.html)

I'm afraid to ask.
Was this same unique trim in the other home that the city demolished?

Save the houses.
I really, really, love this house.

Drove by this home.
What is the rush to tear it down??
I am not familiar with the supposed reasoning or so-called logic which has resulted in hasty and unscrupulous demolitions.

Someone here please walk me through this

Is this house not properly mothballed?  Is it in bad structural condition and beyond repair?  Like ricker, I wonder what's the reasoning or rush?  Is there a legit reason or has code enforcement completely lost their minds?

Their grandfather definitely invested his blood sweat and tears into this structure during an era in Jacksonville when blacks were pretty much limited to housing stock of lesser quality.  From all of the hand cravings, he picked up the skill from somewhere. I wonder what was his name and his story? 

 

Quote from: iloveionia on May 11, 2013, 11:33:39 PM
I'm afraid to ask.
Was this same unique trim in the other home that the city demolished?

Save the houses.
I really, really, love this house.

I didn't ask!

But I will.

There was a piano there which grandma used to play for the girls.  She played for awhile at the Apollo club in Harlem.  It was crushed by the bulldozer.

Quote from: thelakelander on May 12, 2013, 07:21:42 AM
Is this house not properly mothballed?  Is it in bad structural condition and beyond repair?  Like ricker, I wonder what's the reasoning or rush?  Is there a legit reason or has code enforcement completely lost their minds?

Their grandfather definitely invested his blood sweat and tears into this structure during an era in Jacksonville when blacks were pretty much limited to housing stock of lesser quality.  From all of the hand cravings, he picked up the skill from somewhere. I wonder what was his name and his story? 

 

I have their story and will post shortly.

The timeline of events leading to this:

The sisters appeared before city council on April 9, 2013 pleading for the houses.

http://media.coj.net/City_Council/Council%204-9-13.wmv
(they are at 2:48:37)

On April 18, 2013 they filed an injunction against the city to stop the demolition.  This is handwritten.  They did this themselves.  Below is a page -- I will type up the complaint for ease in reading. 

(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/sheclown2/onthe18th.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/sheclown2/media/onthe18th.jpg.html)

The injunction was filed on April 22, 2013

(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/sheclown2/injunction-1.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/sheclown2/media/injunction-1.jpg.html)

Then they filed an amended "Demand for Hearing"

(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/sheclown2/25th.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/sheclown2/media/25th.jpg.html)



  From her notes:

"On April 22, 2013, went back to the courthouse to see why I did not hear a response concerning the Demand for a hearing. Called secretary, Priscilla Waters, she did not know and would call me back.  She didn't.  I called and then she said the judge, Judge Beverly, denied it because the other parties were not notified." 

"I walked it to the sheriff's department myself" she goes on to say.

(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/sheclown2/receipt.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/sheclown2/media/receipt.jpg.html)

Their Myrtle Street house was demolished on April 25th.

from the April 25th petition for injunction:  (directly quoted)

Quote
I'm asking that the court gives us more time to restore our family properties for rehabilitation.  We have engineer's and contractor's ready to start work immediately to restore both homes at 1504 N. Myrtle Avenue, Jacksonville, Florida 32209 and 1481 West 6th Street, Jacksonville, Florida 32209.

The City of Jacksonville wants to tear down our properties, we have engineer's and contractors ready to start work right away.  All I'm asking for the courts to give us sometime to restore our family properties; this is all we have left of our family heritage.  This is our "legacy".  This is all we have left of our parent's and grandparent's; please give us the time we need to restore our family properties.  I'm asking the court to grant us some time to restore our family properties; our family homes are over 100 years old, both properties has withstand all types of bad weather; no-one has gotten hurt on or around our family properties.

We have copies of the report's from the engineer's stating our family properties are sound and both properties can be restore for rehabilitation.  See copies of the report's attached.

QuoteThe city has a report from an independent engineer company Atlantic Engineer they had stated that our family properties are not sound; that was date 2007.

We have reports from the engineer in 2009 stated that our family homes are sound and both homes can be restore for rehabilitation.  The city has a copy of this same report from us in 2009 that stated our family properties are sound and both of the properties can be restore for rehabilitation at 1504 N. Myrtle Avenue and 1481 West 6th Street, both homes are located in Jacksonville, Florida.  I'm asking the court to give us time to restore both homes for rehabilitation.

We had a fire in our family home in 1996, shortly after the fire we had a bad contractor, who had ruin our family home more; see the copy of the report attached.  We had went to court, this process had taken a very long time, we were instructed by the construction board not to do anything until the hearing was over and then after the hearing was over the construction board would tell us when we could start repairing our family home after they make their inspection and check with the code enforcement board.  This took 18 months.

All we're asking for the court to give us more time to repair our family homes, we had went to code enforcement department to file for a appeal we were denied an appeal, we did not think that was fair.  We then spoke with a representative from the code enforcement department, a that time they had mentioned o us their was a stipulation agreement we can sign because we are within the 5 year window, all we have to do is sign the stipulation agreement stating that we're going to make the repairs on our family properties and that would stop the demolish process on both of the properties, once the representative went out of their office to get the agreement from their supervisor,there were told by their supervisor that Kimberly Scott cannot sign any agreement, she knows who we are, we cannot see her or say anything to her.  So then we went to see if we could speak with Kimberly Scott boss, a Terrance Barker he was to busy in the middle of some emergency; he was suppose to call us back, till this day he has not return a call to us.  We had went everywhere trying to find help from the city council and with the mayor's office; no-one has contacted us back from the mayor's office.  We thought we were going to receive some help from the city council; Warren Jones was going to help us, we cannot understand why he had changed his mine, we gave Warren Jones copies of the contracts we had explained everything to the councilman and to the city council board, the reason's why we could not repair our family homes.  Councilman Jones had told us in 2005, 2006, 2007 letters were sent to us and they returned stating that we had refused the letters.  We had told them the (council) we did not get any mail, all of our mail goes to a p. o. box and if some of the mail went elsewhere, we did not know anything about it, all we can say about that whoever had sent out the letter's did not look at the right address to send our mail to us.  We did not refused any mail,

QuotePlease all we are asking is for some time to restore our family property.  The city council had mentioned to us at the city council meeting they have been receiving complaints from 2 neighbors; the first one is Levroyus Parlow he stays next door to our family home, he has made so many complaints against our family home, they are not true, our family home is not going to fall on his property, our property has not damaged his property at all, in all of these years; he parks all of his cars in the driveway next to our family home (he has cars and a truck) nothing has happen to any of them till this date, Cecilla Miller who has also made numerous complaints stays 2 blocks up from our family home, she lives no-where near us, far as the other neighbors hey have no complaints with us; we always keep up our family home, it's always neat and clean

QuoteAll we need is time to repair our family home.  It is just my sister and myself, our brother is some 3,000 miles away serving in the United States Navy.

No-one knows what life is going to bring or how you would handle the experiences.  In 1996 we had a fire at our home, after the fire my father had hired a contractor, my father trust this man Willie D. Williams, my father thought our family home would be fixed and we would have our home fixed, that didn't not happen,Willie D. Williams had turned out to be a bad contractor, my father had did everything he was suppose to, file the necessary papers, we went to court, on several occasions in Jacksonville and out of Jacksonville.  In 1999 we had buried our father, that next year in 2000 we had buried our uncle. 

The compliant goes into some personal issues which I promised not to post. 

One set of grandparents lived in the Myrtle Street house and the other on the west 6th street house.  The twin sisters who are now 53, remember going to the west 6th street house after school.   Grandma kept chickens which they butchered in the backyard and a vegetable garden.  Thursday was meatloaf night.  A memory still strong in both sisters' hearts.  And Boston Cream pie.

Stories were told to them about the ice trucks going down west 6th street delivering ice to their grandparents house. Stories about their grandpa who worked for the railroad and built 6th street to move his bride out of the apartments on Cleveland Street.

There is a picture of one of the grandparents in LaVilla.  I will get clarification on this.

Regardless of ownership, legacy, and other issues, this is a structure filled with folk art.  The carvings, alone, make it a significant piece of history. 

Regarding the structural issues.  I saw only one small roof leak.  Small.  My house has a bigger leak than this.

Vandals broke into the house and removed a good portion of the trim.  But enough remains.  Then they trashed the contents. 

The structure has since been made very secure.

And the house is intact.

If landmarked, this could be an easy mothball. 

What's the reason for demolition against the owner's will?

I have a lot to learn about the inner workings of COJ, so my question is this. Is the department that targeted and destroyed these houses and originally included the Claude Nolan Building the same one that is trying to destroy the Springfield Plastics building? If so, who appoints or hires the leadership of this department? Where do they get the authority to do what they do? And how far would we have to go over their heads to stop them and force a change in procedures? I understand that there has to be rules and codes when it comes to structures and "public safety" as they like to state, but this is ridiculous. Is there anything that can be done that we are already not doing?

Wasn't this the house where the pilings were messed up causing the house to lean?

I will answer to the best of my ability given my experience.

Lake: Code's practice is driven by harassing owners who don't do work to their property in a "timely" manner.  I have heard time and time again about the length of time a case has been open on a property and "nothing" has been done so it must come down.  Code Enforcement is Henny Penny: The sky is falling!  They state time and time again that a home is a safety concern when it is not.  It is blight, no doubt, and neighbors (certainly in this case) are plotting against the home and owner, thereby prompting code to feed their fix.  It isn't always complaint driven, sometimes code just drives by and cites an owner (such as in the case of Springfield Plastics.)  Regardless, once there is a complaint (either neighbor, stranger, or code initiated,) it's game on from a code enforcement dept. perspective.  When that file is opened on a property, they will come back every 1-3 months on their own to inspect and document, more, if nuisance neighbors are complaining. 

DDC:  The department is Municipal Code and Compliance Department, aka Code, aka MCCD.  The chief, Kimberly Scott, is in an appointed position.  She was appointed in 2007, right as coincidently the so called non-existent "formal track to demolition" became a practice.  Under her reign Historic Springfield lost near 100 homes.  The authority comes from "Chapter 508" of the municipal code.  Now this is funny because they interpret it how they want and do only what they want out of the code.  Meaning, they have the ability to stabilize and mothball properties but they refuse.  Walnut Court several years ago (an SFR historic home in Springfield) received a stay of execution that came from the mayor.  (Not the current one.)  So in answer, the chief answers to the mayor.  Mothballing has helped maintain the status quo in Springfield.  That was legislation.  It is my opinion that code enforcement needs a complete overhaul.  I spoke to the demolition contractor who won the bid to demolish this home on W. 6th Street on Friday  (I had spoken to one other before: Patterson Apts. contractor) and their relationship and understanding of Code Enforcement is no better than ours.  Now that said, there are folks who support code and their systematic annihilation of homes, history, and folks livelihood.  Seems to be a southern thing I can't quite grasp.  I am not at all surprised at the experience the sisters are having.  Pissed, but not surprised.  It's a standard practice from code enforcement and neighbors/residents who have misplaced THEIR place in this world.  What to do?  In the sisters case, get the home Landmarked (Joel is working on that) and then pull a mothball COA.  We've about 30 days minimum before the bulldozer will show up.  There are no guarantees.  What can you do?  Write the mayor.  Scream loud and scream a lot. 

MEGATRON: No.

Funny. The City cited a faulty pier. So did sheclown. Don't ignore the facts that do not fit your argument.

What should have occurred here?  What's your solution and who pays for that solution?

The city is not specific in their reports. Nor are they engineers.
As for the pier? My oversight. I replaced SEVERAL on my condemned bungalow years ago. Big whoop.
I already stated the resolve. Landmark. Mothball.
I volunteer my time regularly.
As does sheclown and others.
I also give freely in monetary ways. It is my way.
My money goes where my mouth is, not out someplace else.
As for previous resolve? Sure, rehab and make habitable.
The world is not perfect, fair or consistent.
I prefer to help, not hamper.

The pier issue was with the other house.

Both houses are (were) pretty solid.

Point is that (and I was wrong on the amount I quoted earlier) for $5450.00 plus the cost of asbestos survey ($300), $5,750.00 the house was awarded to Harold's Land Clearing to demolish.  If they find asbestos, the cost will be $65,000.00

see line 13

(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/sheclown2/60d46dcf-e448-47ea-9260-8c3873285e23.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/sheclown2/media/60d46dcf-e448-47ea-9260-8c3873285e23.jpg.html)

There was asbestos on the Myrtle Street house.  Don't know what that demo cost the city.

For $2500, we could pay a contractor to mothball West 6th Street and save the historic fabric of our city.

Quote from: sheclown on May 12, 2013, 02:20:36 PM
The pier issue was with the other house.

Both houses are (were) pretty solid.

Point is that (and I was wrong on the amount I quoted earlier) for $5450.00 plus the cost of asbestos survey ($300), $5,750.00 the house was awarded to Harold's Land Clearing to demolish.  If they find asbestos, the cost will be $65,000.00

There was asbestos on the Myrtle Street house.  Don't know what that demo cost the city.

For $2500, we could pay a contractor to mothball West 6th Street and save the historic fabric of our city.

who owns it at that point?

The owner. Mothballing it doesn't change the ownership. It preserves and protects the property and buys the owner time to restore it. Just as these sisters have asked.

We have two folks who have pledged the materials and labor to make it happen (mothballing at $2500.) 
One step at a time.
Landmark.
Mothball.
Restore/Renovate.

Quote from: iloveionia on May 12, 2013, 05:24:26 PM
We have two folks who have pledged the materials and labor to make it happen (mothballing at $2500.) 
One step at a time.
Landmark.
Mothball.
Restore/Renovate.

one step at a time wil not win folks over. You need a plan.

Quote from: iloveionia on April 26, 2013, 08:47:41 PM
This is a powerful picture on SO many levels.  I can just shake my head in sadness.

You know you read this stuff.  Will be the bad guy.   If they were that concerned about grandmas house, why didn't they do anything before it was condemned, or did they?  The pictures looks like the house is a disaster.  The unique hand carved areas are interesting.

Quote from: civil42806 on May 12, 2013, 09:08:11 PM

Quote from: iloveionia on April 26, 2013, 08:47:41 PM
This is a powerful picture on SO many levels.  I can just shake my head in sadness.

You know you read this stuff.  Will be the bad guy.   If they were that concerned about grandmas house, why didn't they do anything before it was condemned, or did they?  The pictures looks like the house is a disaster.  The unique hand carved areas are interesting.

Illness. Poverty.

Bottom line is that house is important to all the citizens of Jacksonville.

Quote from: sheclown on May 12, 2013, 09:16:16 PM

Quote from: civil42806 on May 12, 2013, 09:08:11 PM

Quote from: iloveionia on April 26, 2013, 08:47:41 PM
This is a powerful picture on SO many levels.  I can just shake my head in sadness.

You know you read this stuff.  Will be the bad guy.   If they were that concerned about grandmas house, why didn't they do anything before it was condemned, or did they?  The pictures looks like the house is a disaster.  The unique hand carved areas are interesting.

Illness. Poverty.

Bottom line is that house is important to all the citizens of Jacksonville.

actually it's not

Quote from: MEGATRON on May 12, 2013, 09:20:45 PM

Quote from: sheclown on May 12, 2013, 09:16:16 PM

Quote from: civil42806 on May 12, 2013, 09:08:11 PM

Quote from: iloveionia on April 26, 2013, 08:47:41 PM
This is a powerful picture on SO many levels.  I can just shake my head in sadness.

You know you read this stuff.  Will be the bad guy.   If they were that concerned about grandmas house, why didn't they do anything before it was condemned, or did they?  The pictures looks like the house is a disaster.  The unique hand carved areas are interesting.

Illness. Poverty.

Bottom line is that house is important to all the citizens of Jacksonville.

actually it's not

That house is who we are here in Jacksonville -- who we once were. 

That will always be important.

Quote from: MEGATRON on May 12, 2013, 09:04:57 PM

Quote from: iloveionia on May 12, 2013, 05:24:26 PM
We have two folks who have pledged the materials and labor to make it happen (mothballing at $2500.) 
One step at a time.
Landmark.
Mothball.
Restore/Renovate.

one step at a time wil not win folks over. You need a plan.

Not sure what was missed about the plan?  Detail I suppose?  Landmarking the property is coming up at the next HPC meeting.  When that is approved, then the mothball COA at the next meeting.  When that is approved, then mothball it!  Then move towards getting the home habitable in the 3 year certificate.  Once it is landmarked I understand it can't be demoed (but who knows about loopholes in Code.)

As for winning folks over?  I suppose I come from a different frame of mind than some, I hope not too many though.  I'm not religious or anything, but believe firmly that we have a duty to help other people.  Some of us are in better places than others for a myriad of reasons (that could be another thread) and have the ability to guide and help others that can not help themselves.  Not everyone is educated.  Not everyone is privileged.  Not everyone has the right color skin.  Not everyone thinks the same. Not everyone walks the path of righteousness (okay, that sounded way too religious, ack.) But my point is one person or a few persons in this instance make it their life mission to hurt others and focus on being a problem rather than a solution.  I believe we are supposed to help each other, not bring one another down.  It feels much better making people feel good than making them feel like shit.  Well, to me anyway.  So, yeah, I get it, in a perfect world the sisters should have kept their home in non-condemned condition from the get-go.  I'm with ya.  But they didn't.  I'm not going to make excuses, but after hearing them speak at the Council meeting, one of them was near death ill.  Sometimes the circumstances of life change everything.  That is why we get to know people and help.  Additionally, there is this really great old and unique house that needs preserving.  Why Jax is so hip and demolishing is beyond my scope of understanding.  It benefits no one.  History itself should convince everyone.  When they are gone, they are gone.  After all my unorganized blabbering, suffice it to say: Save the Houses.  "Love one another or die." WH Auden.

Quote from: sheclown on May 12, 2013, 09:22:11 PM

Quote from: MEGATRON on May 12, 2013, 09:20:45 PM

Quote from: sheclown on May 12, 2013, 09:16:16 PM

Quote from: civil42806 on May 12, 2013, 09:08:11 PM

Quote from: iloveionia on April 26, 2013, 08:47:41 PM
This is a powerful picture on SO many levels.  I can just shake my head in sadness.

You know you read this stuff.  Will be the bad guy.   If they were that concerned about grandmas house, why didn't they do anything before it was condemned, or did they?  The pictures looks like the house is a disaster.  The unique hand carved areas are interesting.

Illness. Poverty.

Bottom line is that house is important to all the citizens of Jacksonville.

actually it's not

That house is who we are here in Jacksonville -- who we once were. 

That will always be important.

if that house is who you are, that's sad.

Quote from: iloveionia on May 12, 2013, 09:28:30 PM

Quote from: MEGATRON on May 12, 2013, 09:04:57 PM

Quote from: iloveionia on May 12, 2013, 05:24:26 PM
We have two folks who have pledged the materials and labor to make it happen (mothballing at $2500.) 
One step at a time.
Landmark.
Mothball.
Restore/Renovate.

one step at a time wil not win folks over. You need a plan.

Not sure what was missed about the plan?  Detail I suppose?  Landmarking the property is coming up at the next HPC meeting.  When that is approved, then the mothball COA at the next meeting.  When that is approved, then mothball it!  Then move towards getting the home habitable in the 3 year certificate.  Once it is landmarked I understand it can't be demoed (but who knows about loopholes in Code.)

As for winning folks over?  I suppose I come from a different frame of mind than some, I hope not too many though.  I'm not religious or anything, but believe firmly that we have a duty to help other people.  Some of us are in better places than others for a myriad of reasons (that could be another thread) and have the ability to guide and help others that can not help themselves.  Not everyone is educated.  Not everyone is privileged.  Not everyone has the right color skin.  Not everyone thinks the same. Not everyone walks the path of righteousness (okay, that sounded way too religious, ack.) But my point is one person or a few persons in this instance make it their life mission to hurt others and focus on being a problem rather than a solution.  I believe we are supposed to help each other, not bring one another down.  It feels much better making people feel good than making them feel like shit.  Well, to me anyway.  So, yeah, I get it, in a perfect world the sisters should have kept their home in non-condemned condition from the get-go.  I'm with ya.  But they didn't.  I'm not going to make excuses, but after hearing them speak at the Council meeting, one of them was near death ill.  Sometimes the circumstances of life change everything.  That is why we get to know people and help.  Additionally, there is this really great old and unique house that needs preserving.  Why Jax is so hip and demolishing is beyond my scope of understanding.  It benefits no one.  History itself should convince everyone.  When they are gone, they are gone.  After all my unorganized blabbering, suffice it to say: Save the Houses.  "Love one another or die." WH Auden.

who will own the house while its mothballed?  Who will pay to renovate it?  How does that house move to a new owner?  That's what I mean by plan, rather than simply mothball and hope for the best. That's no plan.

I appreciate your enthusiasm and desire to help. But I certainly don't want to see my tax money go to paying for the preservation of this house. It's simply not high on the list of priorities and I probably speak for many people in this city. That's why a solid plan is absolutely necessary.

QuoteBut I certainly don't want to see my tax money go to paying for the preservation of this house. It's simply not high on the list of priorities and I probably speak for many people in this city.

So it's on the top of your priority list to see your money spent to demolish buildings that are structurally sound? 

Your tax money actually goes to demolish houses.  The city pays for the demo, places a lien on the property (well, vacant lot) and it sits uncared for and unloved for a long time.  Often those liens aren't paid and the city eats the money (well, we do.)  It's the saga of Springfield.  Mothballing is paid for by the owner, or in this case sponsored by donors.  The revival of the home will also be paid for by the owners.  Or done DIY style where possible.

You won't like it, but a monitored and mothballed home can sit for a very long time protected as such. City of Jax mothballing gives 3 years plus potentially an additional 1-3 thereafter. 

In life I have learned (I am in education) that not everyone has the opportunities that others do.  Everyone has a story.  And for some, the deck maybe stacked against them.  Yes, the house is sad.  Yes, the life that some people embrace is also sad.  But maybe not to them, you know?  Just to us outsiders.  What we think and what we feel about something/someone, may be far from the truth. 

Jacksonville should embrace history, preservation, and progressiveness.  Many cities do and thrive because of it.

And FWIW.  I have a mothballed 1500 sq. ft. home in Springfield that needs to come to life on the interior.  I didn't have to produce paystubs or bank account information to show that I could rehab the home.  I am given the time to produce those funds over 3 years to make it happen, and no one asks to see those funds and to be quite frank, it is not anyone's business whether I have them or don't.  My point:  we simply don't know about people.  Things just need to take their course and bridges crossed when we get to them.

I feel strongly that we need to help, not hurt people.  That those of us "better off" have a duty to guide and love others.  Remember?  Love each other or perish. (Auden)

Last sappy thought.  My Ionia bungalow I bought in 2007 makes me smile everyday.  This sad gal sat in dire straits for 12+ years without love until I bought her.  I believe houses are living breathing entities.  Every time I walk into my home I feel this warm swath of love surround me, like the house is hugging me and saying "thank you for loving me."  I walk through my home and wonder about all the lives that lived there.  If walls could talk right?  I wonder what history will say about this time we live in?  What will the books and stories speak? That may be all there is, the stories, because the true to life forms (houses) will be long since gone.  Nothing to go back and look at and learn from. 

Save the houses. 

One of the beauties of mothballing is that it SAVES taxpayers money.

Not only does the city not have to pay the cost to demolish a building, but it also doesn't have to clog up the landfill with perfectly acceptable (and I would say superior) building materials.

Quote from: sheclown on May 13, 2013, 07:45:52 AM
One of the beauties of mothballing is that it SAVES taxpayers money.

Not only does the city not have to pay the cost to demolish a building, but it also doesn't have to clog up the landfill with perfectly acceptable (and I would say superior) building materials.

I am all for mothballing if a plan is in place after the 3-6 year timeframe.  My fear is that, after six years, nothing has happened to push renovation of the house, then the City has to re-insert itself and spend more money on the house.  And, if the City is footing the mothballing bill, these women can no longer own the property. 

What happens after 3-6 years of mothballing?

^You do understand that your tax money pays for the demolition, right? Why is that more palatable?

MEGATRON, do you approve of using tax dollars to demolish structurally sound buildings? 

QuoteWhat happens after 3-6 years of mothballing?

What happens after demolishing people's property against their will?  How does COJ recoup money used to tear down buildings?

Quote from: thelakelander on May 13, 2013, 09:30:17 AM
MEGATRON, do you approve of using tax dollars to demolish structurally sound buildings? 

QuoteWhat happens after 3-6 years of mothballing?

What happens after demolishing people's property against their will?  How does COJ recoup money used to tear down buildings?

So, are you going to answer the question or not???  I like all your ideas - I just don't think you have assembled a plan that anyone other than ultra- preservationists can get behind.  Sorry that I have to spell that out for you.

Against their will?  Those ladies have been given 15 years to do something with their house.  if I lived next door to that house, I'd be pissed as hell and so would you.  Its a blight in its current condition.  Look at those pictures.  Forgot about paying for structural fixes.  How about just getting in there and cleaning up some of the trash in that house?  Great sob story by the sisters but they have not put five minutes of sweat equity into that house.

I approve of using tax dollars to tear down a structurally deficient house that has become a blight to its neighbors.  I'd rather the city spend the $3,000 to demolish the house than the millions of dollars a plaintiff's attorney will reap when some vagrant is injured in the house or the house falls onto its neighboring houses and injures an inhabitant. 

Would I rather see the $3,000 go to mothballing?  Absolutely.  But show me what happens when, after 3-6 years, nothing has happened?  Do we spend more money on the house?

Quote from: Tacachale on May 13, 2013, 09:07:06 AM
^You do understand that your tax money pays for the demolition, right? Why is that more palatable?

Answer this question: what happens after 3-6 years of mothballing?

Maybe it's restored. Maybe it's mothballed for another 3-6 years?  Maybe it falls down on its own?  Unless COJ is choosing to take someone's property, why would COJ be on the hook in either path?  Also, this stuff should require pages of back and forth discussion to figure out.  How do cities that actually value their history handle this situation?

Now, that I've answered your question, how about answering mine?

Quote from: thelakelander on May 13, 2013, 09:30:17 AM
MEGATRON, do you approve of using tax dollars to demolish structurally sound buildings?

Quote from: thelakelander on May 13, 2013, 09:59:00 AM
Maybe it's restored. Maybe it's mothballed for another 3-6 years?  Maybe it falls down on its own?  Unless COJ is choosing to take someone's property, why would COJ be on the hook in either path?  Also, this stuff should require pages of back and forth discussion to figure out.  How do cities that actually value their history handle this situation?

Now, that I've answered your question, how about answering mine?

Quote from: thelakelander on May 13, 2013, 09:30:17 AM
MEGATRON, do you approve of using tax dollars to demolish structurally sound buildings?

I've answered that.  I don't believe that COJ should demolish structurally sound buildings.

Back to your answer: so the property owner should be on the hook for mothballing?  You think those two sisters can afford that avenue?

If it falls down on its own and someone is injured, the City would be sued, fair or not.

I'll respond with a little more detail about mothballing.

First and foremost the city does NOT pay for mothballing.  It is privately funded. (but just for fun, they could, but refuse and instead prefer to abate via demolition even though mothballing would be cheaper, smarter, and sustainable.)

One of the requirements of the COA is to submit a plan for habitability.  That's a 3-year plan as that is the life of the COA (though I have mentioned it can be renewed [of course depending.])

The owner of the mothballed home must do a walk-around and walk through of the property at least once monthly.  Any issues?  Fix them.

The grass and landscaping must be maintained monthly.

There is an inspection after one year of the certificate to check on the progress of the COA. 

So what happens if the above doesn't happen?  While code is "hands off" during the mothball COA, if more deterioation or damage occurs on the property, they will do their due diligence.  If there are additional (and valid) complaints, they will do their due diligence.   At the end of the 3 year COA if the owner has done little or nothing?  That's up to HPC.  If the home is in the same condition as it was 3-years ago (meaning it has not deterioriated further) then they may very well renew.  Again, up to their professional discretion. 

Let's say they don't renew?  And the property falls into disary?  Then it's a hot code case again.

On the property I mothballed (mine) I paid close to $6k to mothball her.  For our props and others we have mothballed?  $1 - $6k for each.  That's a lot of money to throw away and then ignore the requirements of the COA follow-through.  Additionally, it's not like it is easy to mothball, I mean it is, but it is WORK it's not like with the snap of a finger and a few bucks a home is mothballed.  And furthermore, someone who mothballs is likely to want to restore/rehab.  It just doesn't make sense otherwise.

Lastly.  I have spoken to two demolition contractors that contract with the city.  Each have demolished several homes that they had no understanding of why.  They were structurally sound and difficult to take down. 

Disclaimer: I didn't spell check.  No time.

The city claims everyone a mile away will be hurt from a condemned home that is going to fall.  Despite some belief, the sky is not falling.  The old homes have withstood 100 years.  Bet they could go another. 

QuoteI've answered that.  I don't believe that COJ should demolish structurally sound buildings.

Back to your answer: so the property owner should be on the hook for mothballing?

Yes.

QuoteYou think those two sisters can afford that avenue?

Yes.

QuoteIf it falls down on its own and someone is injured, the City would be sued, fair or not.

Why would it fall down if it's proven to be structurally sound?  The structure appears to be setback from the property line. Even in the event it did fall down, why would the city be sued?

Removing all of the other components, the sad sister story, the age and quality of the building, it just makes plain sense to recycle houses -- putting effort into saving what currently exists.

If the city won't do this, all of the little blue recycle bins are just bullshit.

I still do not know why the city does not sieze and auction these problem properties instead of bulldozing. 

Quote from: acme54321 on May 13, 2013, 12:08:19 PM
I still do not know why the city does not sieze and auction these problem properties instead of bulldozing.

That would absolutely be my suggestion.

Quote from: iloveionia on May 13, 2013, 10:40:42 AM
I'll respond with a little more detail about mothballing.

First and foremost the city does NOT pay for mothballing.  It is privately funded. (but just for fun, they could, but refuse and instead prefer to abate via demolition even though mothballing would be cheaper, smarter, and sustainable.)

One of the requirements of the COA is to submit a plan for habitability.  That's a 3-year plan as that is the life of the COA (though I have mentioned it can be renewed [of course depending.])

The owner of the mothballed home must do a walk-around and walk through of the property at least once monthly.  Any issues?  Fix them.

The grass and landscaping must be maintained monthly.

There is an inspection after one year of the certificate to check on the progress of the COA. 

So what happens if the above doesn't happen?  While code is "hands off" during the mothball COA, if more deterioation or damage occurs on the property, they will do their due diligence.  If there are additional (and valid) complaints, they will do their due diligence.   At the end of the 3 year COA if the owner has done little or nothing?  That's up to HPC.  If the home is in the same condition as it was 3-years ago (meaning it has not deterioriated further) then they may very well renew.  Again, up to their professional discretion. 

Let's say they don't renew?  And the property falls into disary?  Then it's a hot code case again.

On the property I mothballed (mine) I paid close to $6k to mothball her.  For our props and others we have mothballed?  $1 - $6k for each.  That's a lot of money to throw away and then ignore the requirements of the COA follow-through.  Additionally, it's not like it is easy to mothball, I mean it is, but it is WORK it's not like with the snap of a finger and a few bucks a home is mothballed.  And furthermore, someone who mothballs is likely to want to restore/rehab.  It just doesn't make sense otherwise.

Lastly.  I have spoken to two demolition contractors that contract with the city.  Each have demolished several homes that they had no understanding of why.  They were structurally sound and difficult to take down. 

Disclaimer: I didn't spell check.  No time.

Appreciate the detailed response.  Call me a pessimist, I just don't see these two sisters taking action (for whatever reason) after 15 years of neglect.

Quote from: thelakelander on May 13, 2013, 10:44:03 AM

QuoteI've answered that.  I don't believe that COJ should demolish structurally sound buildings.

Back to your answer: so the property owner should be on the hook for mothballing?

Yes.

QuoteYou think those two sisters can afford that avenue?

Yes.

QuoteIf it falls down on its own and someone is injured, the City would be sued, fair or not.

Why would it fall down if it's proven to be structurally sound?  The structure appears to be setback from the property line. Even in the event it did fall down, why would the city be sued?

If the City had the property in the enforcement process then backed off, then someone was injured due to the condition of the house, you better believe the City would be sued.  I believe the City remains in litigation due to a tree branch falling and injuring a kid, where the tree was scheduled for removal.  The City has the deep pockets in that situation, not the landowner.

Neglected properties should be properly mothballed by the city, specifically code enforcement.
That negates safety concerns, protects the house, and removes blight.
Then yes, rather than bulldozing, auctioning as was done many years ago is a positive action.
It promotes preservation, sustainability, and puts money back to the city.
The Chief of Code is adamantly opposed to any thing like this. She only supports demolition.

Quote from: MEGATRON on May 13, 2013, 12:19:13 PM

Quote from: thelakelander on May 13, 2013, 10:44:03 AM

QuoteI've answered that.  I don't believe that COJ should demolish structurally sound buildings.

Back to your answer: so the property owner should be on the hook for mothballing?

Yes.

QuoteYou think those two sisters can afford that avenue?

Yes.

QuoteIf it falls down on its own and someone is injured, the City would be sued, fair or not.

Why would it fall down if it's proven to be structurally sound?  The structure appears to be setback from the property line. Even in the event it did fall down, why would the city be sued?

If the City had the property in the enforcement process then backed off, then someone was injured due to the condition of the house, you better believe the City would be sued.  I believe the City remains in litigation due to a tree branch falling and injuring a kid, where the tree was scheduled for removal.  The City has the deep pockets in that situation, not the landowner.

Well yeah, the tree branch that fell and maimed that teen fell from a tree on city property. Hardly an apples-to-apples comparison to the matter discussed.

Quote from: Josh on May 13, 2013, 04:07:09 PM

Quote from: MEGATRON on May 13, 2013, 12:19:13 PM

Quote from: thelakelander on May 13, 2013, 10:44:03 AM

QuoteI've answered that.  I don't believe that COJ should demolish structurally sound buildings.

Back to your answer: so the property owner should be on the hook for mothballing?

Yes.

QuoteYou think those two sisters can afford that avenue?

Yes.

QuoteIf it falls down on its own and someone is injured, the City would be sued, fair or not.

Why would it fall down if it's proven to be structurally sound?  The structure appears to be setback from the property line. Even in the event it did fall down, why would the city be sued?

If the City had the property in the enforcement process then backed off, then someone was injured due to the condition of the house, you better believe the City would be sued.  I believe the City remains in litigation due to a tree branch falling and injuring a kid, where the tree was scheduled for removal.  The City has the deep pockets in that situation, not the landowner.

Well yeah, the tree branch that fell and maimed that teen fell from a tree on city property. Hardly an apples-to-apples comparison to the matter discussed.

So, you disagree that, under those circumstances, the City would face a lawsuit.  John Morgan would happily take a break from taping Tebow commercials to file that suit.

As to a lawsuit because the property was scheduled to be demolished but wasn't, as long as the issues, meaning any REAL structural issues, were addressed during the mothballing process, then the issues were abated and no basis for that lawsuit exists anymore.  If anyone would end up in some lawyers sights, it would be the owners of the property as usual and in this case, they have nothing.

However, speaking of lawsuits, what about MCCD employees presenting misinformation under oath to accomplish the demolition of historic properties? What about MCCD employees breaking laws to get their case file load up?  That is perhaps as volatile of a issue as any liability issues from not going forward with a demolition. The policies currently set by Ms Scott seem more likely to put the city in a liability situation than the mothballing of a condemned house.

I think strider is on to something. The city isn't going to change its ways until the threat of a lawsuit due to demolishing a house is greater then the threat of a lawsuit for not demolishing it.

Additionally, we need to rethink contributing versus noncontributing in regards to historic preservation.  And rethink historic boundaries being the criteria of what is worth saving and what is not.

A 100 year old house is worth saving whether it is in Riverside or Durkeville, New Springfield or Arlington-- for so many reasons, but not the least of which is that-- they don't make them like that anymore.

The request for landmarking this structure will go before HPC tomorrow afternoon.  Psos will be there to support this effort to save an important piece of history  --  not only the house but the folk art as well. Durkeville needs protection. Lets start with this

Being heard right now. Stand by for update

Declared a potential landmark and saved.

Nice!

http://amandasearle.wordpress.com/2013/05/28/will-you-join-the-fight-to-preserve-intown-jacksonville/

Amanda rocks.  Who's with us?

Urban core CPAC voted tonight in support of the landmarking of this house

Whike I have not asked the sisters about their financial resources. I know at this particular moment they do not have money to renovate. Thanks to a generous donor, funds are available to mothball

In three years time they will need to raise enough money to begin the renovation process or perhaps sell the house to people with the resources

But the house is the house and its importance transcends its current owners (although their story is compelling)

Mothballing secures it,  makes it safe, makes it attractive and qualifies it for tax credits. All of this is important while we sort out its future

Quote from: sheclown on May 31, 2013, 07:38:32 PM

(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/sheclown2/debc9f7b-3711-407a-93ee-768277dfe23c.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/sheclown2/media/debc9f7b-3711-407a-93ee-768277dfe23c.jpg.html)
Lynette puts out the sign, hopeful that the Historic Planning Commission will vote to recommend landmark status for her Grandma's house.

(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/sheclown2/d9c8546b-a80b-4e4a-9bb6-1279cb821086.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/sheclown2/media/d9c8546b-a80b-4e4a-9bb6-1279cb821086.jpg.html)
PSOS was there today helping Lynette clean out the debris scattered by vandals.

Not to be a bad guy here, but if the sisters were so concerned about the property, why in the world did they allow it to deteriorate to this degree?

civil, your question is a valid one and I have two responses.

1.) They shouldn't have.  But there are a wide variety of life reasons why people end up not able to take care of things, some are in their control, others are not. 

2.) This story is about the larger issue of Durkeeville and its importance to Jacksonville.  This house is a small snap shot of a time when a black man could only build his wife a house in a few neighborhoods in the city.  This neighborhood represented pride and accomplishment to those men and the hand carved trim throughout (what remains) poignantly illustrates the pride that was once Durkeeville.

What also makes this home special is that unlike many houses, it has not undergone any "improvements" no popcorn drywalled ceilings, no upgraded bathrooms, very few changes from when it was built.  In fact, the wallpaper is still on the walls.


Will the sisters be able to take it from its mothballed condition, renovate it and bring it back to life? 

I don't know. 

But I know the alternative is that Jacksonville loses a significant reminder of its proud past.

Certainly better to mothball, than demolish, which gives absolutely no hope for the house being restored.  Best of luck, and thanks to all that are making this possible.

The house is cleaned out (except a few items that the sisters want to save).  The dumpster is full and hauled away.  We are ready for our inspection with the historic planning department to determine its suitability for landmarking.

The sisters had their day in court this afternoon (remember, it is posted earlier in this thread).  They had filed an injunction and the city filed a motion to dismiss.  The judge recused himself after hearing both sides -- apparently he knew the sisters or had heard a case regarding their property earlier.  (They don't remember that, but also don't look a gift horse in the mouth).

I will still need to do some investigating to determine what is to be done about a settling issue where the main house meets the back porch.  We work with a wonderful architect who will be cajoled into helping us, probably on the sailboat when he is nice and relaxed.

So, onward and forward!  Let's see what we can do.

Anyone know about folk art out there?  We would love to get an expert's opinion.

I'd like to share some additional information about the sister's hearing today.

• I accompanied the sisters to the hearing.
• The judge recused himself because he believes he was the attorney for Code Enforcement back when this property initially came into the system.
• I personally asked Jason Teal (City's atty) in front of the judge whether he had relayed that at the 05/22/13 HPC meeting, this house was deemed a "potential landmark".
• He replied YES.
• I then asked whether Kim Scott intended to demolish this home knowing it was designated as a potential landmark.
• Again, he replied YES.

 
 

Crap

Scott needs HPC approval, no?

Quote from: ChriswUfGator on June 05, 2013, 07:52:53 PM
Scott needs HPC approval, no?

She didn't need it to demolish 129 East 2nd Street and that one is in a Nationally recognized Historic District!

Is the injunction a protection?  Since the city wasn't able to dismiss it, does this mean it is still protecting the house ?

Speechless.  What the heck does Kim Scott and MCCD have against historic homes?  Or is it personal?

Quote from: ChriswUfGator on June 05, 2013, 07:52:53 PM
Scott needs HPC approval, no?

At this point, the building department will see a tag on the property card and send the demo contractor to historic planning.  Staff would not sign off on it.

That being said, an "emergency" can be taken down at any time and as we witnessed on the 2nd street house, (whose historic standing was not even in question) no verification is needed of the condition of the house to do so.  No checks.  No balances.

So the answer to your question is, who knows.

Systems.  HVAC, plumbing, electric could be 25K.

New modest kitchen with appliances could be 7k,

Bathrooms have tubs, sinks and toilets already so 2k to make whatever repairs needed to those.

Structural work could be 10k.

Window repair and replacement where needed 5K.

Doors 1k.

Staircase and other trim 5k. 

Flooring repairs and refinishing 5k. 

Paint, interior, and plaster repair , 8k,

Removal of the "faux" siding -- some sort of roofing like material they used to use to cover the siding and make it   look like brick -- along with wood siding repair and paint 10k,

add 7k for things I've left off.

A nice renovation could be done for $85k.

Joel says that historic tax credits can reduce renovation costs by up to 20%.  Taking that into consideration, it is possible that this could be done for 70k.

The requirements for historic tax credits could be met with this house fairly easily since it has not been "upgraded" like so many historic properties.

I might be light on the flooring  and the interior doors might cost more than I expect.

Still --  what is the cost to build new?  Two story unpainted trim. Hardwood floors

Lynette had her pre-landmarking inspection by the historic planning department this afternoon.

It is indeed an magical home and could be magnificent once again if the MCCD will allow it to continue to live/stand.

JaxUnicorn, I heard you were very impressive tonight at city council speaking for this house and the house on 2nd Street. 

Thank you sheclown!  I certainly did try!  MCCD is out of control and MUST be reigned back in....quickly!!  Rest assured that I'm not done fighting....

Landmark hearing this afternoon for 1481 West 6th Street.  We'll be there and let you know what happens.

This has been deferred until the August meeting. I believe Joel is still waiting on a determination on the folk art

HPC approved landmark status !

Great!

Terrific!

(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/sheclown2/stairtrim.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/sheclown2/media/stairtrim.jpg.html)

Joel's comments last night at the HPC meeting regarding the folk art carving (and included in his written report to the commissioners)

Mr. Myers used an unusual decorative treatment on interior trim and front door surround by chiseling repeated grooves giving the appearance of finger impressions.  The current owner, Lynette Myers, stated that "Grandpa carved his finger prints to remind everyone that this was him home."  IN additiona to represnting an example of African-American folk art, the symbolism of the design may have West African, as well as Gullah/Geechee cultural influences.  Gullah/Geechee culture is an African American tranditon stared primarily on coastal islands of South Carolina, Georgia, and Northeast Florida.  This unique folk tranditoin originated from former slaves, most from West or Central Africia, who were able to maintain many aspects of their original language and culture in the more isolated islands of the south Atlantic coast.

In preparing this report, no definitive relationship was confirmed linking the chiseled finger design found on the interior trim and door surround of 1481 West 6th Street with West African and Gullah/Geechee cultureal traditions.  Howver, photographs of the trim work was forwarded by University of Florida graduate student, Heather Marie Thwing, to several art historians at the university with one noting that the finger design was very similar to a style of Gullah/Geechee can carvings that frequently featured hand designs.  In addition, one of the designs used on square corners and plinths of the doors and window trim is reflective of the Adinkra Bese saka symbol of West Africa.  Bese saka is interpreted as "sack of cola nuts" a common cash crop in Ghana, as well as favorite treat of some native populations.  The symbol is generally associated with abundance, affluence, power, and unity through agriculture and trade.

I wonder if there is a way to introduce legislation that if a buildin is given Landmark or other historical status (such as National Register of Historical Places, etc, that MCCD can not demolish it.  Historical status really needs to be protection with teeth. 

The legislation is already on the books.  It is just not followed -- for some reason, the city believes legislation can be trumped by policy.

Quote from: mbwright on August 29, 2013, 08:07:22 AM
I wonder if there is a way to introduce legislation that if a buildin is given Landmark or other historical status (such as National Register of Historical Places, etc, that MCCD can not demolish it.  Historical status really needs to be protection with teeth. 

What's interesting is that the legislation is there already, they just have to follow it. It isn't that Ms Scott can't be stopped by the HPC, the OGC or even the planning department.  It is that they won't do it, are afraid of Ms Scott and whomever protects her or just don't care at all in the end.  Maybe all three.

OK, then maybe outside council, or a judge should make a ruling, or something to enforce the rules already on the books.  I am sure this has already been stated.  Can't the office, and/or Scott personally be sued?

Look at the mayor's statement:

QuoteFrom the Mayor's town meeting:

QuoteKim Fryer:

What are you going to do about the unecessary demolitions that are happening. It's got to stop. *crowd erupts in cheers".

Brown:

Yes, this is important but we need to also focus on safety. People who have bought into Springfield are next to broken down homes. They are worried about property values.

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,18927.0.html

He begins by throwing out the trump card "SAFETY" but doesn't stay there long before it is PROPERTY VALUES.

This SAFETY net is the power behind the policy.  But it is just this:


Abusing the public trust by tossing SAFETY around when clearly there is no danger to the public.

Crying SAFETY only to justify an agenda is can only (eventually) backfire.

Joel McEachin has researched the African Folk Art found in the west 6th Street house and found a close match in this:

(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/sheclown2/b0b88a96-0a6e-437d-9706-8e2e76f692da.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/sheclown2/media/b0b88a96-0a6e-437d-9706-8e2e76f692da.jpg.html)

(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/sheclown2/008f74e0-45e3-48e5-ad3b-77e47d375163.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/sheclown2/media/008f74e0-45e3-48e5-ad3b-77e47d375163.jpg.html)

There were also round disks carved like the ones shown here:

(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/sheclown2/57045347-1bc9-4a5c-b38a-863c8faeaae9.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/sheclown2/media/57045347-1bc9-4a5c-b38a-863c8faeaae9.jpg.html)

(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/sheclown2/exteriors.jpg) (http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/sheclown2/media/exteriors.jpg.html)

LUZ  supports land marking the myers sisters durkeeville home

City Council just passed this.  The house is a landmark.

Quote from: sheclown on February 11, 2014, 05:25:30 PM
City Council just passed this.  The house is a landmark.

Excellent job.