Why People Perceive Some Cities as Safer Than Others (http://www.theatlanticcities.com/neighborhoods/2013/04/why-people-perceive-some-cities-safer-others/5234/)
Jacksonville ties for 4th worst out of 50 largest metros for "Yes, safe" answers to "Do you feel safe walking alone at night in the city or area where you live?"
Downtown? Although it can be a lonely walk, I've never felt unsafe walking in downtown. The Southside? I don't feel comfortable walking streets like Southside or Baymeadows in the day, much less the night.
I think it's a combination of factors (for explaining the bulk of dirty south cities at the bottom).
1) Hardly anyone is caught walking...so it's stepping outside of the norm for anyone when walking is a must...not to mention walking alone at night.
2) There is still a tinge of racism and unfamiliarity with different people and cultures among people who grew up in the south
3) Most of the south is relatively rural and unurban, so again walking and experiencing urban crap is foreign, unfamiliar, and potentially a little scary
4) It doesn't help that impoverished blacks in the south do tend to murder and rampage quite a bit...leading to the name dirty south (folks out here in Oakland are at least still rapping about community issues and "normal" things where hoodrappers out of Atlanta, Memphis and other southern cities have continued to stoop to new lows, simply disgusting people)
I think you ask someone in a large city this same question and you are likely asking someone accustomed to walking alone at night, someone who has developed more street smarts, someone who has seen a lot more, someone who has a higher threshold for uneasiness. Hence why Chicago may have scored higher than it should...aside from the "white" parts that city makes New Orleans seem safe!
I'm not buying the impoverished blacks in the south tend to murder and rampage a bit thing.
From my observation living it and visiting other places, the impoverished neighborhoods tend to be where a higher percentage of the population is more dependent on their feet and mass transit. Growing up in what most here would call a rough neighborhood, I'll also say that you pretty much know everyone in the hood (people actually grow up together there) and you tend to feel more comfortable there then walking in a gated community where the demographics don't match your skin color or bank account. Although I assume the same would be said of any situation that you personally happen to be more comfortable and familiar with.
As far as the crime aspect goes, people don't randomly murder others for the most part. In the majority of the cases (in the core, burbs and secluded country clubs) the people engaged in the crime typically know each other. If you want to cut down on your chances of being a statistic, stay on the good side of the law. That works in Ponte Vedra and Moncrief.
Regarding the cities ranking lower on the list, I'd bet when we really take a look at the actual context people are forced to walk in, the majority don't have pedestrian scale streets.
Quote from: thelakelander on April 17, 2013, 04:14:19 PM
Downtown? Although it can be a lonely walk, I've never felt unsafe walking in downtown. The Southside? I don't feel comfortable walking streets like Southside or Baymeadows in the day, much less the night.
True that. Should be titled: Jax People Don't Feel Safe Walking.
(http://i.imgur.com/9JMxhF6.jpg)
For all his cosmopolitan affectations, Simms is never more the silly insulated Ortega boy as when he pops off about stuff like this.
Most of Jacksonville isn't safe for walking at all. Cross Southside Blvd on foot and there is a good chance you'll get killed. Just look at Southside and Beach. Cars coming off Beach Blvd have a yield sign and pedestrians have no protection.
http://goo.gl/maps/j0NPG
Quote from: Tacachale on April 18, 2013, 09:20:32 AM
For all his cosmopolitan affectations, Simms is never more the silly insulated Ortega boy as when he pops off about stuff like this.
Which is saying something, if you've ever read his Emporis posts where he operates on the premise that saying how embarrassed he is to be from Jacksonville will ingratiate him with sophisticates.
Quote from: stephendare on April 18, 2013, 12:14:20 AM
Quote from: peestandingup on April 18, 2013, 12:10:34 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on April 17, 2013, 04:14:19 PM
Downtown? Although it can be a lonely walk, I've never felt unsafe walking in downtown. The Southside? I don't feel comfortable walking streets like Southside or Baymeadows in the day, much less the night.
True that. Should be titled: Jax People White People Don't Feel Safe Walking.
Since most violent crime is black on black why would white people feel more unsafe? how do we know the demographics of who was surveyed anyways? I think this goes back to one thing: PERCEPTION
I don't walk alone at night. God and Rosco are usually with me. Most of my walking is at night. But not down town or any where near Moncrief. I walk in Mandarin.
I have been charged by a big dog. I've had a pistol pulled in front of me. I've walked up on a sword swinging youngster (20s). I've been approached by a guy in a subruban with smoked out windows.....cop, druggy, or just a nosy jerk(don't know). I've been in the dark near a dock listening to guys on the end chanting "death to america" . I've had tree limbs fall near the sidewalk during a tropical storm event. But I ain't afraid to walk out there.
Yes, there is traffic. But I grew up walking in traffic. It don't bother me. It is more predictable than people.
Quotehoodrappers out of Atlanta, Memphis and other southern cities have continued to stoop to new lows, simply disgusting people
as I always love to point out, a rap group from Memphis has the same number of Oscars as Martin Scorsese.
Quote from: Tacachale on April 18, 2013, 09:20:32 AM
For all his cosmopolitan affectations, Simms is never more the silly insulated Ortega boy as when he pops off about stuff like this.
LoL...well thanks for assuming where I might have lived nearly a decade ago when I was living in Jax. Besides, I know of an Ortega native who now lives in Soma in SF, and others in edgy parts of NYC. In fact, it's really the Ortega/"rich" kids who seem to have branched out the most of people I knew growing up in Jax (to add to the snob factor I guess having parents who can afford to send you off to great universities in other cities so that you can then be on your way to live and work where you please will do that to you...) I'd guess given where many of them ended up, they are a lot less "insulated" than your typical Jax native/still current resident. Plus...I don't own a car and live in a neighborhood with a density of 35,000 ppsm in the central city of a "coastal" metro of 8 million people...I would have to guess I am exposed to a lot more on a daily basis than 99% of Jax is exposed to in a given year :)
I don't think there's anything controversial about what I said..."fear of walking alone at night" seems highlighted in the south. Just look at the facts - racism (really amongst all groups) persists, crime IS elevated (usually black on black, but there is random violence that surges every now and again and it gets reported in the media), people ARE insulated moreso than people in the NE or on the West Coast (so it probably takes less to "scare" a less traveled southerner than a resident of Chicago, Baltimore, LA, etc)...bla bla bla.
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on April 18, 2013, 09:46:50 AM
Which is saying something, if you've ever read his Emporis posts where he operates on the premise that saying how embarrassed he is to be from Jacksonville will ingratiate him with sophisticates.
LOL What's Emporis? I post on here and Skyscraperpage, where I have the same sn. Lakelander and I are the only Jax natives on the latter, and neither of us posts anything about Jax, ever, except to showcase photos (Lake just did a week ago) or to add to the Projects & Construction thread (which I started and last posted in maybe 2 years ago).
Stephen, Lake, and maybe 3-4 other people even know who I am because I choose to remain anonymous and don't have any particular "name" anyway...would just assume be a "poster" and nothing more. Don't try to pretend like you know me :)
^My mistake, I was inadvertently equating Emporis to SkyscraperPage. I was specifically referring to the photo thread of SkyscraperPage in which you begin by going out of your way to talk about Jacksonville's "horrible reputation" and to state that you are embarrassed to be from there.
None of this is intended to take away from the validity of the points you were making about the city's ridiculous destruction policies in that thread. None of this is intended to take away from the validity of the leasing data you often provide on these forums. It's uncomfortable to read, but as Stephen said, it's reality and it's useful to know rather than to deny and to be deluded.
As much as I'm not in denial about Jacksonville's problems, and as much as it pains me to know that everything you said about the destruction policies is quite right, I don't particularly appreciate seeing departed Jaxsons announce to the world how repulsive and embarrassing it is to be from the city. It goes against trying to instill the kind of pride and sense of place that will lead to positive changes to counter whatever negative reputations the city does have, and it led to comments in the SkyscraperPage thread that were negative about Jacksonville, including one from a person who said he/she now dreaded an upcoming first-time trip there. It's not helpful to Jacksonville or sophisticated or uplifting to say that it's embarrassing to be from there. In fairness, I'll note that you talked further down in that thread about the good work MetroJacksonville does and spoke positively of the urban core neighborhoods, but the overall effect of the start of the thread was "Look at this dump you should never visit! But don't equate it to me, as I'm far more sophisticated."
Incidentally, this is Emporis, if anyone's interested. A database of building photos and facts, searchable by building and city. I mistakenly thought it and SkyscraperPage were under the same umbrella.
http://www.emporis.com/buildings
Well as another 'Ortega Brat,' I don't really have a problem anywhere in Jacksonville. Now if you guys REALLY want some 'sport walking' try a midnight stroll in Barrancabermeja Colombia! Bello in Medellin and several neighborhoods of Bogota are equally 'sporting.' Got to hand it to Brasil though, Rio beats anything I've ever seen in Colombia, Much of Rio is so bad that you can be beaten, robbed, raped, and shot, and actually feel good that nothing worse happened to you! BTW the pixar cartoon movie 'RIO' nailed the city's streets better then a National Geographic special.
Back to Jax., there are actually a couple of young blonde girls walking up and down Baymeadows Road near I-95 and time of day doesn't seem to phase them.
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on April 18, 2013, 05:32:57 PM
^My mistake, I was inadvertently equating Emporis to SkyscraperPage. I was specifically referring to the photo thread of SkyscraperPage in which you begin by going out of your way to talk about Jacksonville's "horrible reputation" and to state that you are embarrassed to be from there.
None of this is intended to take away from the validity of the points you were making about the city's ridiculous destruction policies in that thread. None of this is intended to take away from the validity of the leasing data you often provide on these forums. It's uncomfortable to read, but as Stephen said, it's reality and it's useful to know rather than to deny and to be deluded.
As much as I'm not in denial about Jacksonville's problems, and as much as it pains me to know that everything you said about the destruction policies is quite right, I don't particularly appreciate seeing departed Jaxsons announce to the world how repulsive and embarrassing it is to be from the city. It goes against trying to instill the kind of pride and sense of place that will lead to positive changes to counter whatever negative reputations the city does have, and it led to comments in the SkyscraperPage thread that were negative about Jacksonville, including one from a person who said he/she now dreaded an upcoming first-time trip there. It's not helpful to Jacksonville or sophisticated or uplifting to say that it's embarrassing to be from there. In fairness, I'll note that you talked further down in that thread about the good work MetroJacksonville does and spoke positively of the urban core neighborhoods, but the overall effect of the start of the thread was "Look at this dump you should never visit! But don't equate it to me, as I'm far more sophisticated."
Well, see now you're having thin skin...there were a rash of threads about the destruction of other cities such as Buffalo, NY, and I thought highlighting historical photos shown many times here on MJ in similar format would be a way to highlight the history and "groundedness" of Jacksonville and to showcase its old bones and what's left. My opening was pretty lighthearted and from the heart...Jax does have a reputation, and when you leave Jacksonville to go live in a big city with a bunch of uppity folks from elsewhere, you DO get tired of being lumped in with rednecks and "South GA" every time you mention the city...BUT as you later admit in your post I DO highlight MJ, the progress that's been made, and I make many positive points about the city. THAT was my intent and I think it came across that way...more of a "pity thread about a lesser known city" that too frequently gets lumped in with the rest of new age suburban FL..."now that we know it has good bones remaining despite the horrendous destruction, what do we do?".
Compile that with my other threads...the Jax P&C (using MJ), my personal photo threads, etc...I've done a very good bit to highlight the city to a larger north american forum seen/used by people very unfamiliar with NE FL (and if they are familiar...they go by the stereotypes...which I have worked to minimize).
Besides, if you are active on SSP, where are you? Jax has
no representation besides Lake and I, and occasionally someone else. At this point,
any "press" is good press, LoL.
Quote from: simms3 on April 18, 2013, 04:11:22 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on April 18, 2013, 09:20:32 AM
For all his cosmopolitan affectations, Simms is never more the silly insulated Ortega boy as when he pops off about stuff like this.
LoL...well thanks for assuming where I might have lived nearly a decade ago when I was living in Jax. Besides, I know of an Ortega native who now lives in Soma in SF, and others in edgy parts of NYC. In fact, it's really the Ortega/"rich" kids who seem to have branched out the most of people I knew growing up in Jax (to add to the snob factor I guess having parents who can afford to send you off to great universities in other cities so that you can then be on your way to live and work where you please will do that to you...) I'd guess given where many of them ended up, they are a lot less "insulated" than your typical Jax native/still current resident. Plus...I don't own a car and live in a neighborhood with a density of 35,000 ppsm in the central city of a "coastal" metro of 8 million people...I would have to guess I am exposed to a lot more on a daily basis than 99% of Jax is exposed to in a given year :)
I don't think there's anything controversial about what I said..."fear of walking alone at night" seems highlighted in the south. Just look at the facts - racism (really amongst all groups) persists, crime IS elevated (usually black on black, but there is random violence that surges every now and again and it gets reported in the media), people ARE insulated moreso than people in the NE or on the West Coast (so it probably takes less to "scare" a less traveled southerner than a resident of Chicago, Baltimore, LA, etc)...bla bla bla.
I didn't assume it, you've said it in a number of your many posts about your favorite subject, yourself. For some reason, that particular bit of information sticks out in my mind when I read your posts ;) . At any rate, when you start claiming that whole groups of people "tend to murder and rampage quite a bit, ah do deeclayuh", you're really only demonstrating that the following is true in at least one case:
Quote from: simms3 on April 17, 2013, 06:45:31 PM
2) There is still a tinge of racism and unfamiliarity with different people and cultures among people who grew up in the south
Some of the most insulated people I've known are also the ones who've traveled the farthest in terms of distance. Someone with blinders on can see the world without seeing world.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on April 18, 2013, 05:46:40 PM
Well as another 'Ortega Brat,' I don't really have a problem anywhere in Jacksonville. Now if you guys REALLY want some 'sport walking' try a midnight stroll in Barrancabermeja Colombia! Bello in Medellin and several neighborhoods of Bogota are equally 'sporting.' Got to hand it to Brasil though, Rio beats anything I've ever seen in Colombia, Much of Rio is so bad that you can be beaten, robbed, raped, and shot, and actually feel good that nothing worse happened to you! BTW the pixar cartoon movie 'RIO' nailed the city's streets better then a National Geographic special.
Back to Jax., there are actually a couple of young blonde girls walking up and down Baymeadows Road near I-95 and time of day doesn't seem to phase them.
I have family in both Medellin and Barranquilla, and have visited. I can't say they live in scary areas...2 cousins live in a gated community on a mountain overlooking the city, and 1 lives in the city in a wealthy area with glass shards over a stone wall and a gated entry. Still...have spent my own time wandering around exploring by myself...very friendly people, VERY poor areas, and I find security in the heavily armed guards, police, and military units posted up everywhere. :) Medellin has really made *serious* strides and seems to be on the path to bona fide powerhouse business center...escalators up mountainsides, decent public transit, new construction, etc.
Quote from: Tacachale on April 18, 2013, 05:57:07 PM
I didn't assume it, you've said it in a number of your many posts about your favorite subject, yourself. For some reason, that particular bit of information sticks out in my mind when I read your posts ;)
I know I may have inadvertently mentioned where I lived in ~<5 of my posts on here (out of >2,000)...prefer anonymity and discretion and my posting focus is on development/design. Glad to know how you feel about me, though! ;)
Quote from: simms3 on April 18, 2013, 05:55:41 PM
Well, see now you're having thin skin...there were a rash of threads about the destruction of other cities such as Buffalo, NY, and I thought highlighting historical photos shown many times here on MJ in similar format would be a way to highlight the history and "groundedness" of Jacksonville and to showcase its old bones and what's left. My opening was pretty lighthearted and from the heart...Jax does have a reputation, and when you leave Jacksonville to go live in a big city with a bunch of uppity folks from elsewhere, you DO get tired of being lumped in with rednecks and "South GA" every time you mention the city...BUT as you later admit in your post I DO highlight MJ, the progress that's been made, and I make many positive points about the city. THAT was my intent and I think it came across that way...more of a "pity thread about a lesser known city" that too frequently gets lumped in with the rest of new age suburban FL..."now that we know it has good bones remaining despite the horrendous destruction, what do we do?".
Compile that with my other threads...the Jax P&C (using MJ), my personal photo threads, etc...I've done a very good bit to highlight the city to a larger north american forum seen/used by people very unfamiliar with NE FL (and if they are familiar...they go by the stereotypes...which I have worked to minimize).
Besides, if you are active on SSP, where are you? Jax has no representation besides Lake and I, and occasionally someone else. At this point, any "press" is good press, LoL.
I don't see much good in arguing the point that saying "I'm embarrassed to be from Jacksonville" and expounding on it at some length doesn't exactly strike me as a lighthearted remark coming straight from the heart, nor an effort to minimize stereotypes.
But I do think you are quite right that I could and should provide some positive commentary on the city on SSP. I haven't been active on there, as you can probably guess from my confusing it with Emporis.
Incidentally, most everyone I've taken around Jacksonville - primarily people from in and around DC, where I grew up - has grown to like it quite a bit despite the flaws that disappoint us all, and none came in equating the city with a negative national reputation beyond some of the bashing of the Jaguar fan base in the national sports press. Maybe I'm not sophisticated enough to be aware of one.
Quote from: simms3 on April 18, 2013, 05:59:01 PM
I have family in both Medellin and Barranquilla, and have visited. I can't say they live in scary areas...2 cousins live in a gated community on a mountain overlooking the city, and 1 lives in the city in a wealthy area with glass shards over a stone wall and a gated entry. Still...have spent my own time wandering around exploring by myself...very friendly people, VERY poor areas, and I find security in the heavily armed guards, police, and military units posted up everywhere. :) Medellin has really made *serious* strides and seems to be on the path to bona fide powerhouse business center...escalators up mountainsides, decent public transit, new construction, etc.
http://www.youtube.com/v/J7JbEEobeaQ?version=3&hl=en_US
So your family is my neighbor? Cool. We have a 'finch' on the ridge above El Poblado, and had a condo in Poblado up the mountain from the Aguacatala metro station.
Bello where the railroad yards are is one of those neighborhoods where you could lose it pretty quick and frankly Jacksonville doesn't have anything like it.
Truth be told it's apples and oranges as Jacksonville isn't in the same league as Medellin, Bogota, Ciudad Panama, Lima, Santiago, Rio, Sao Paulo, etc...
You are correct that there is a tangible 'energy' in the air in Colombia. It helps to wake up in the Andes a solid mile above sea level and know it's another 72 degree day. Clouds hovering all along the 13,000-19,000 foot peaks decorated with patches of snow make for breathtaking scenery (in more ways then one!)
My wife's niece owns the ''El Cantil - Ecolodge" El Cantil Ecolodge on the Pacific Coast, it's been featured in National Geographic and a number of other 'nature or natural' publications.
Again south of NuquÃ, but this time only about 35 minutes by boat, think rustic cabañas with sea view balconies, as well as excursions to hot springs and cascades. The lodge offers diving, surfing, as well as whale watching during the season. Prices start from £147 per person for two nights. www.elcantil.com.
Quote from: simms3 on April 18, 2013, 04:11:22 PM
I guess having parents who can afford to send you off to great universities in other cities so that you can then be on your way to live and work where you please will do that to you...)
Wow....just wow.
some of us grew up in families that could afford to do that....yet paid for school somewhat or completely by ourselves.....and many turned out just fine.
You really do need to keep a check on that snob factor
Need to change this thread to the Snob Patrol instead of Walking at Night.
Haha, I didn't even catch that one.
Simms if you think I've given out too much personal information I do apologize and I'll delete the posts if you want. But you may not realize how much personal info you give out in these forums.
Quote from: tufsu1 on April 19, 2013, 08:16:52 AM
Quote from: simms3 on April 18, 2013, 04:11:22 PM
I guess having parents who can afford to send you off to great universities in other cities so that you can then be on your way to live and work where you please will do that to you...)
Wow....just wow.
some of us grew up in families that could afford to do that....yet paid for school somewhat or completely by ourselves.....and many turned out just fine.
You really do need to keep a check on that snob factor
Take the quote out of context why don't you...wasn't referring to myself. It was a tongue in cheek reply to me being falsely labeled an "insulated" Ortega kid, and I found it ironic while I'm being attacked for generalizing, the attacks directed at me are also doing just that (insulated Ortega kid?...LoL like I said, they've been sent on their way and are on their own in some other big city now, hardly "insulated" at this point)
My wry humor is completely lost on this forum...or maybe it's the fact that we have to type all of this out.