So, I live in Tallahassee, but periodically i visit jax since its the closest major city for a change.... The last few times I have come away with this awful feeling that the Core of Jax is dieing and decrepit.... The downtown makes me sad every time i go into it..
I know about the projects in brooklyn and riverside which is great.... but I just get this feeling that i want to avoid downtown... I like spending time in Riverside and Avondale, but honestly I havent explored all of Jax.... It seems like the southside is thriving over by UNF and the St Johns Town Center... and the beaches are doing well.. Orange park is ok, as i have grandparents that live by there.
I keep hearing good things about San Marco, I need to get over there and look.. Also north jax by the airport seems to be doing well with the new shopping and zoo etc.
But its weird, it seems like everything surrounding downtown is doing well, (well not everywhere, but a lot of neighborhoods)
Even St Johns County is stealing all the hype lately because wealthier folks got the memo that if they all cluster together, they can make the schools a great district.
SO people are flocking to Race Track Road for durbin crossing, and Nocatee parkway for those developments
As I drove through the southside this weekend on phillips highway on my way to St augustine, I just cant shake this feeling that someone needs to make downtown liveable again..
Jax has so much potential with everything, but the downtown is not a place I would like to be. The river is nice and so are the bridges, but the fact that almost nothing is going on stinks
Anyways... These are my observations.. im not completely unfounded in my thoughts, i am a masters student at FSU in Urban and Regional Planning..
well, there were thousands downtown enjoying the riverwalk saturday afternoon, so it wasn't completely dead.
There are attempts to make downtown great... The riverside arts market, the riverwalk, and the water taxis etc.. I just feel like a placemaking initiative should be done, and maybe we are at the start of something new with the brooklyn developments.. If they can inspire other developments, maybe in a couple years, we wont be having this conversation.
"...... Even St Johns County is stealing all the hype lately because rich white folks got the memo that if they all cluster together, they can make the schools all white, and rich, and therefore a great district......" TD wrote.
My kids have kids of their own and live somewhere else. I have noticed that St Johns co schools don't bus downtown low lifes to the suburbs. They don't have cracker days where the minorities beat up on the white kids and the principal ignors it. The teachers don't describe their students as the criminal class. My friend the former Duval School teacher moved there cause she didn't want her kids in Duval schools. AND most of my black friends with college degrees and good jobs moved to St Johns County for the same reasons as the others.
Its suburban flight, moving away to the safe areas far away from the "scary" downtown schools with all the poor "lowlifes"..
Its pathetic kind of. Everyone has to pay for the sprawl going on across the country.. it costs a lot more to extend services out to st johns than it would be to live in a dense area..
Who pays for it? The taxpayer.. its the classic american ideal... get your immediate needs met, and worry about who pays for it later.. (same thing with credit cards).
Technically since its in another county, Duval wont be paying for some of the issues, but i just dont like the idea...
I would like to add that Tallahassee is really bringing its core up to snuff with the recent Gaines Street Developments, Cascades Park, and other projects. People who have not visited Tallahassee in a while will be surprised how nice the city has become as it is growing smartly.
Its a much more livable city than Jax.
Quote from: Overstreet on April 08, 2013, 01:09:55 PM
My kids have kids of their own and live somewhere else. I have noticed that St Johns co schools don't bus downtown low lifes to the suburbs. They don't have cracker days where the minorities beat up on the white kids and the principal ignors it. The teachers don't describe their students as the criminal class. My friend the former Duval School teacher moved there cause she didn't want her kids in Duval schools. AND most of my black friends with college degrees and good jobs moved to St Johns County for the same reasons as the others.
Downtown lowlifes? The 11E people, or the Berkman I people? There aren't many places to live downtown, and even fewer for those with low income. Please elaborate.
TD, it is clear that your idea of "lively" is "well-paved." Downtown is not a walkable urban paradise, but it is certainly not dying. If anything, it is on an upswing as of late. The SJTC may not be dead on a Saturday afternoon, but it sure makes we wish I was. But I would be interested to know when the last time you were DT was, and where you went. Might explain some things.
Tallahassee is not more livable than Jax. I spent six years there. I highly disagree. Sorry, it doenst not hold a candle to Jacksonville.
Jax has its nice areas, im just hoping for rapid change.
i go to tallahassee all the time. Went to school there got my masters in urban planning.
first off the sore lack of mass transit in a metro of 1.3 million is sad. Why can't officials read this site and build rail in jax?
Do you know that commuter rail is being planned for the area?
I read the entire Jacksonville Comprehensive plan and studied it for school. It seems like a good plan but their idea of short term BRT and long term rail planning is kinda lame. jax needs a sun rail in the worst way.
yes fsujax I know its being planned" but I want to see it in action. Fdot wasted everyone's money building highways in jax for decades when they could have had Awesome density and TOD from a rail system.
I was in Tally a few months ago and was nicely surprised by the many infill projects. Good to see.
The natives have heard it all before TD*.
Over the years many ideas on how to improve downtown and the core have been hashed out on here. Point counter point. Build rail. Extend the skyway. We need a new grocery store. etc etc.
There is definitely more of a pulse to downtown than there was a decade ago, more events, more venues than I recall growing up here in the late 90's-2000's.
What i'm saying is, if you think it's bad now. You should've been here 11+ years ago. I was able to roam the streets at night snapping photographs without coming across another soul. Aside from maybe a random greyhound passenger or a club rat wandering over from DV8/618/Milkdome.
There does to seem to be an upswing lately downtown but it needs a boom to jump start that urban vibrancy we dream about on here.
Yea. I hope when I get my first job I can work on rail projects and bring it to places like jax that sorely need it. Hell I'm already advocating for a streetcar or light rail for Tally.
Quote from: PeeJayEss on April 08, 2013, 02:02:26 PM
The SJTC may not be dead on a Saturday afternoon, but it sure makes we wish I was.
Why? Stuff like that drive me crazy. What's the matter with both places prospering? The old balance scale effect 'this place vs that place' argument. Yup, the SJTC supposedly 'stole' all of the old foot traffic from DT, no doubt....
Quote from: TD* on April 08, 2013, 03:19:54 PM
Jax is hell.. highways everywhere.. looks like trash.
comments like this reflect poorly on you...and sadly, as an FSU DURP alum, somewhat on the grad program you're in as well
Quote from: TD* on April 08, 2013, 03:23:26 PM
I'm kinda trolling now cause I got ticked off.. That aside Jax needs a downtown improvement plan and to put it into action everything in Ajax happens away from the core.
Are you sure you're not just trolling in general? I've seen you around the way on other city forums & its a constant ra ra fest for Tallahassee, while dogging every place thats not Tallahassee.
I'm happy to post links.
Quote from: peestandingup on April 08, 2013, 09:38:18 PM
Quote from: TD* on April 08, 2013, 03:23:26 PM
I'm kinda trolling now cause I got ticked off.. That aside Jax needs a downtown improvement plan and to put it into action everything in Ajax happens away from the core.
Are you sure you're not just trolling in general? I've seen you around the way on other city forums & its a constant ra ra fest for Tallahassee, while dogging every place thats not Tallahassee.
I'm happy to post links.
LOL
Quote from: TD* on April 08, 2013, 11:54:32 AM
Even St Johns County is stealing all the hype lately because rich white folks got the memo that if they all cluster together, they can make the schools all white, and rich, and therefore a great district.
SO people are flocking to Race Track Road for durbin crossing, and Nocatee parkway for those developments
...i just wanted to say how i felt..
I've got to jump in here as a resident of St. Johns and the 'Rich White Folks' hood called World Golf Village. On my street in WGV (which is only 1 block long) we have 12 occupied houses. Out of our 12 occupied houses we have a couple from Argentina, Bolivia, Puerto Rico and my house which is 1/2 Colombian (my wife and children) both of us are dual nationals, and another mixed household 1/2 Cuban (wife) and 1/2 Bostonian (which is the real foreigner, LOL!). So that's 5 out of 12. The street behind us? While I don't know the mix, I do know of a family from Colombia, one from Peru and a mixed or Black couple. The entry street has no less then 3 Black families and no more then 10-12 homes. We are quite the melting pot, not the lily white bunch you imagined. Sometime when your over this way, perhaps you can stop in and we'll pop some cold ones...(The guy from Boston has a freaking brewery in his garage, it's his hobby, another does slow smoked BBQ... the 18-24 hour type!). Consider yourself invited.
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: TD* on April 08, 2013, 11:54:32 AM
Jax has so much potential with everything, but the downtown is SHIT. The river is nice and so are the bridges, but the fact that almost nothing is going on sucks..
Next time your in town TD and if you want to see Downtown from the water in a kayak just let me know.
Quote from: I-10east on April 08, 2013, 07:53:07 PM
Quote from: PeeJayEss on April 08, 2013, 02:02:26 PM
The SJTC may not be dead on a Saturday afternoon, but it sure makes we wish I was.
Why? Stuff like that drive me crazy. What's the matter with both places prospering? The old balance scale effect 'this place vs that place' argument. Yup, the SJTC supposedly 'stole' all of the old foot traffic from DT, no doubt....
You misinterpret, but I figure that was intentional as the only way to argue this particular point. Traffic at the SJTC makes me wish I was dead, going to Costco at SJTC on Saturday afternoon makes me wish I was dead. I don't wish I was dead because its vibrant and DT is not. In fact, I don't actually even wish I was dead, that was hyperbole, and DT was probably more vibrant this weekend than SJTC. Maybe not more crowded, but more vibrant, which is why I questioned TD's argument altogether. Either he wasn't in DT Jax this weekend and is simply trolling, he was in DT Jax this weekend and saw the action but ignored it and is trolling, or his idea of vibrancy is white people driving automobiles, in which case he is trolling life. In my first post, I gave the benefit of the doubt and assumed it was the last option. Now I'm not so sure.
And if you think what's happening at Nocatee is flocking, well you've never seen geese.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on April 08, 2013, 11:20:28 PM
I've got to jump in here as a resident of St. Johns and the 'Rich White Folks' hood called World Golf Village. On my street in WGV (which is only 1 block long) we have 12 occupied houses. Out of our 12 occupied houses we have a couple from Argentina, Bolivia, Puerto Rico and my house which is 1/2 Colombian (my wife and children) both of us are dual nationals, and another mixed household 1/2 Cuban (wife) and 1/2 Bostonian (which is the real foreigner, LOL!). So that's 5 out of 12. The street behind us? While I don't know the mix, I do know of a family from Colombia, one from Peru and a mixed or Black couple. The entry street has no less then 3 Black families and no more then 10-12 homes. We are quite the melting pot, not the lily white bunch you imagined. Sometime when your over this way, perhaps you can stop in and we'll pop some cold ones...(The guy from Boston has a freaking brewery in his garage, it's his hobby, another does slow smoked BBQ... the 18-24 hour type!). Consider yourself invited.
OCKLAWAHA
Sounds dangerous, Ock. You better get out of there. :P
^^^My bad PJE, yeah I misunderstood you. I was thinking that you were basically saying "The STJC might not be dead on Saturday afternoon, but I wish it was". I gotta start reading more thoroughly.
Quote from: TD* on April 08, 2013, 01:15:57 PM
Its classic White Flight, even if other minorities are doing the same, moving away to the safe areas far away from the "scary" downtown schools with all the poor "lowlifes"..
Its pathetic kind of. Everyone has to pay for the sprawl going on across the country.. it costs a lot more to extend services out to st johns than it would be to live in a dense area..
Who pays for it? The taxpayer.. its the classic american ideal... get your immediate needs met, and worry about who pays for it later.. (same thing with credit cards).
Technically since its in another county, Duval wont be paying for some of the issues, but i just dont like the idea...
Ima chim in right quick on this... I dont know what the hell nocatee and Dubin Cross is. I see it mentioned all the time on City Data as the heavenly version of Jacksonville Metro..honest im not feeling that concept, if it removes people away from the Jacksonville-Duval side of the metro. If that is the attitude people are having that is a really scary thing. Time will tell though, but I am sick of reading and hearing about those two places as if they are the only places to live on the First Coast. Thats all I got on that topic.
Quote from: tufsu1 on April 08, 2013, 09:36:31 PM
Quote from: TD* on April 08, 2013, 03:19:54 PM
Jax is hell.. highways everywhere.. looks like trash.
comments like this reflect poorly on you...and sadly, as an FSU DURP alum, somewhat on the grad program you're in as well
Stop being a snob.
Haha, Seriously guys, I tried to kick up some dust in my posts, not everything was politically correct, or dead on, but the general consensus is.... I want Rail in Jax.. And I don't approve of the rapid movement to North St Johns County.
With that being said, sorry if i offended anyone.
Wow Ock and some of the others, i really appreciate the invitation, and sorry I painted the wrong picture and typecast like crazy.....
I really do think Jax has some nice areas, and good people. Everything is not like i made it out to be and I would love to meet some of you.
I just become frustrated with the political landscape and the slow movement on the issues, and that comes out in frustration and me writing posts that arent 100% accurate.
Just wanna say, I love you metro Jaxxers.
Ock an Noone Thanks for the invite!
Someone should have a huge arts and technology festival DT.... Meh never,ind lets do that in the burbs
Yeah if you think Jacksonville highways are ugly you should travel a little more for a better comparison; they are pretty decent overall, often better than most. Rail would be an interesting experiment in Jacksonville. Would it be a cure-all for increased downtown prosperity? I doubt it.
There is no single cure-all for downtown. Mass transit connectivity with the surrounding 100,000 urban core residents would be a significant boost towards revitalization efforts though.
Its just tough when you visit places like Portland and San Francisco and you see a vibrant core, with excellent planning and mass transit.
I hope to move to these places and get a job.
Jax has its charms.. I love the beaches, I love the River, I love some of the neighborhoods, and I love the Airport.
The missing piece for jax is a light rail or heavy rail system with several lines connecting all of Duval County.. A line extension into St Johns would not hurt.
I know the people of this site are very smart planners, and professionals in the region, and I read the site because I have a dream that one day the powers that be and tax payers will vote with their minds and wallets to end the Rampant Runaway Highway development.
I have read probably 100 articles on here advocating for rail in Jax and it will only be a matter of time before it becomes a reality.
When it opens, I will be the first one on the train with Ock.
TD*, I don't take offense with your comments. Jax is behind most communities of its size when it comes to the city life that most millennials seek. It's pretty obvious to me, we still haven't figured out if we really want to compete for millennials or go another way that appeals more to the baby boom generation. Personally, I'm fighting to improve Jax but I would not find fault in you seeking out a community that offers the lifestyle and living atmosphere you seek.
My sincerest Apoligies to the Website, Mods, and members of MetroJacksonville.com My behavior in the thread was uncalled for and I went back and edited my posts to better reflect respect and taste.
Please forgive me. -TD
Off topic: Do you all have metroJacksonville.com meet ups?
I would love to meet the members and chat it up in person.. (That is if you all wouldn't consider me an enemy)
Cool thanks for the info... I have school during the week though, any events on the weekends?
San Marco looks super nice! I wanna live there, or RiverSide.. I think i need a good paying job!
Wow, what i really like is all of the little nodes popping up around jax. The little neighborhood business and retail hubs make for some nice streetscapes! Im currently looking around on Streetview
Any reason why Heckscher drive is kind of undeveloped around it? Once you pass the zoo, its kind of empty until u hit the parks and beaches..
Cool deal
Quote from: thelakelander on April 09, 2013, 10:59:35 PM
There is no single cure-all for downtown. Mass transit connectivity with the surrounding 100,000 urban core residents would be a significant boost towards revitalization efforts though.
Of course. I've just witnessed a lot of discussion where it was presented as one. It certainly would be a step in the right direction to fix a complicated problem and I do welcome it.