Not good....
QuoteBy Mary Kelli Palka
Jacksonville lost nearly $736,000 on the Navy-Marine Corps Classic basketball game and related events, for which vendors weren’t paid for months and at least two laws were violated.
The city hosted a college basketball game aboard a Navy ship in November as part of Mayor Alvin Brown’s Week of Valor. It was also supposed to be a fundraiser with proceeds going to military affairs efforts.
But that didn’t happen.
Instead, the city nearly wiped out its sports trust fund to cover those overruns. The account, funded by proceeds from city sporting events, is now down to about $8,300.
Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2013-04-06/story/city-lost-736000-navy-marine-classic-corps-basketball-game-and-events#ixzz2Pm1d8xqV
Quote from: thelakelander on April 07, 2013, 06:51:42 AM
Not good....
QuoteBy Mary Kelli Palka
Jacksonville lost nearly $736,000 on the Navy-Marine Corps Classic basketball game and related events, for which vendors weren’t paid for months and at least two laws were violated.
The city hosted a college basketball game aboard a Navy ship in November as part of Mayor Alvin Brown’s Week of Valor. It was also supposed to be a fundraiser with proceeds going to military affairs efforts.
But that didn’t happen.
Instead, the city nearly wiped out its sports trust fund to cover those overruns. The account, funded by proceeds from city sporting events, is now down to about $8,300.
Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2013-04-06/story/city-lost-736000-navy-marine-classic-corps-basketball-game-and-events#ixzz2Pm1d8xqV
Its all a lesson learned. Seems like nothing went they way it was intended. shit happens I guess.
The amount of time, energy, and taxpayer money that this city wastes on "sports" stuff is nauseating. Next up is $50 million for a huge TV screen at the football stadium that was also paid for with tax money.
I agree, Dog Walker. Its not a case of "shit happens." There is a pattern of underperformance suggesting a) sports should not be seen as a solution to juicing up the local economy or b) these guys don't know how to promote and execute these events. This wasn't the only recent disaster. I recall the Davis Cup matches a few months ago were played to a nearly empty house. There also were some soccer matches that were poorly attended.
Quote from: johnny_simpatico on April 07, 2013, 10:19:31 AM
I agree, Dog Walker. Its not a case of "shit happens." There is a pattern of underperformance suggesting a) sports should not be seen as a solution to juicing up the local economy or b) these guys don't know how to promote and execute these events. This wasn't the only recent disaster. I recall the Davis Cup matches a few months ago were played to a nearly empty house. There also were some soccer matches that were poorly attended.
I guess you aren't talking about USA VS Scotland that broke the record for attendance of an exhibition game?
Quote from: Dog Walker on April 07, 2013, 09:59:08 AM
The amount of time, energy, and taxpayer money that this city wastes on "sports" stuff is nauseating. Next up is $50 million for a huge TV screen at the football stadium that was also paid for with tax money.
Money made at the stadium will pay for the screen.
We only lost $736,000? Huzzah!
We are so broke.
Over a half a billion dollars in the banking fund and growing.
Will be making a scene and providing a spark in a secret Downtown kayak launch location then taking it over to the brand new No Fishing signs that was never before Waterways.
What are we trying to transform again.
I am Downtown and why you aren't.
Quote from: downtownjag on April 07, 2013, 10:28:10 AM
Quote from: johnny_simpatico on April 07, 2013, 10:19:31 AM
There also were some soccer matches that were poorly attended.
I guess you aren't talking about USA VS Scotland that broke the record for attendance of an exhibition game?
Yeah, two record-setting crowds for the Men's and Women's National teams and then an MLS friendly with 7x the attendance as Orlando had the weekend before. Johnny's point is valid, just shouldn't have mentioned the soccer matches.
Quote
Instead, the city nearly wiped out its sports trust fund to cover those overruns. The account, funded by proceeds from city sporting events, is now down to about $8,300.
And the head of the city’s Sports and Entertainment office admitted it violated procurement practices when hiring six vendors and broke city code when it failed to seek contract approval from its sports advisory commission
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2013-04-06/story/city-lost-736000-navy-marine-classic-corps-basketball-game-and-events#ixzz2Pm1d8xqV
While there are several levels of "fail" in this situation the above statement should be of deep concern to voters and taxpayers. Here we have another situation where an individual that was brought on board by Alvin Brown has violated the City's own policies. This is not okay nor is it excusable. Exasperating this is the reality that after a recent budget cycle of nit picking expenditures and costs to keep our city financially viable we see $736,000.00 tax dollars blown on a gimmick sports event. This is bad business and bad leadership. The buck here should not stop with Alan Verlander but with Alvin Brown who fired an experienced city administrator to replace them with this man who happened to be a friend from JU to the tune of $170K. Pretty shabby job performance to be sure and a lousy selection for the position by Brown.
Quote from: thelakelander on April 07, 2013, 06:51:42 AM
Not good....
QuoteBy Mary Kelli Palka
Jacksonville lost nearly $736,000 on the Navy-Marine Corps Classic basketball game and related events, for which vendors weren’t paid for months and at least two laws were violated.
The city hosted a college basketball game aboard a Navy ship in November as part of Mayor Alvin Brown’s Week of Valor. It was also supposed to be a fundraiser with proceeds going to military affairs efforts.
But that didn’t happen.
Instead, the city nearly wiped out its sports trust fund to cover those overruns. The account, funded by proceeds from city sporting events, is now down to about $8,300.
Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2013-04-06/story/city-lost-736000-navy-marine-classic-corps-basketball-game-and-events#ixzz2Pm1d8xqV
Its weird to read this after what happened here this weekend in Atlanta. Being that Atlanta is not really an NCAA Basketball hotbed city.
The Mayport game did not turn out right for a lot of reasons. Mainly due to the timing of it. I want to say location to, but thats another story.
Quote from: Coolyfett on April 08, 2013, 10:07:40 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on April 07, 2013, 06:51:42 AM
Not good....
QuoteBy Mary Kelli Palka
Jacksonville lost nearly $736,000 on the Navy-Marine Corps Classic basketball game and related events, for which vendors weren’t paid for months and at least two laws were violated.
The city hosted a college basketball game aboard a Navy ship in November as part of Mayor Alvin Brown’s Week of Valor. It was also supposed to be a fundraiser with proceeds going to military affairs efforts.
But that didn’t happen.
Instead, the city nearly wiped out its sports trust fund to cover those overruns. The account, funded by proceeds from city sporting events, is now down to about $8,300.
Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2013-04-06/story/city-lost-736000-navy-marine-classic-corps-basketball-game-and-events#ixzz2Pm1d8xqV
Its weird to read this after what happened here this weekend in Atlanta. Being that Atlanta is not really an NCAA Basketball hotbed city.
The Mayport game did not turn out right for a lot of reasons. Mainly due to the timing of it. I want to say location to, but thats another story.
Weird, perhaps but clearly several of the City's own procurement rules were violated so this is a much more serious problem than simply a poorly timed event. When someone is making 170K and their job is to decide what is or is not a good and viable investment of City funds and fails to the tune of $760,000.00 we are talking about a situation that is untenable considering the financial situation this city is in. This is a very serious and sizable amount of money that has depleted what was supposedly a fund for sports events. I wonder if Alvin will fire his sports Czar, also a friend making over 60K as there is no money left for these type of endeavors?
QuoteI wonder if Alvin will fire his sports Czar, also a friend
I'm not a Brown apologist but Alan Verlander isn't just some random dude that Brown hired. He does have qualifications to be in that position as former Athletic Director at JU as well as a position at Samford. He contributed to bringing the NCAA tournament here in 2006 and 2010. I'm not saying the Navy-Marine Bball game wasn't completely botched, but to imply that he is some random Brown lackey with no credentials is inaccurate.
Quote from: cline on April 08, 2013, 12:18:31 PM
QuoteI wonder if Alvin will fire his sports Czar, also a friend
I'm not a Brown apologist but Alan Verlander isn't just some random dude that Brown hired. He does have qualifications to be in that position as former Athletic Director at JU as well as a position at Samford. He contributed to bringing the NCAA tournament here in 2006 and 2010. I'm not saying the Navy-Marine Bball game wasn't completely botched, but to imply that he is some random Brown lackey with no credentials is inaccurate.
I wholeheartedly agree.
Also, when you say 'contributed'... he and Joel Lamp singlehandidly brought the NCAA tournament to Jax, as well as MANY other sporting events.
Let's learn from what went wrong and make things better the next time. Having the grit and determination to try something new (amidst a City Council that have tried to stop them every step of the way) is the very definition of bold leadership. Not everything works, and when it doesn't you learn from it.
The Navy Classic was an opportunity that came into Verlander's lap within literally his first day on the job.
Quote from: fieldafm on April 08, 2013, 12:24:50 PM
Quote from: cline on April 08, 2013, 12:18:31 PM
QuoteI wonder if Alvin will fire his sports Czar, also a friend
I'm not a Brown apologist but Alan Verlander isn't just some random dude that Brown hired. He does have qualifications to be in that position as former Athletic Director at JU as well as a position at Samford. He contributed to bringing the NCAA tournament here in 2006 and 2010. I'm not saying the Navy-Marine Bball game wasn't completely botched, but to imply that he is some random Brown lackey with no credentials is inaccurate.
I wholeheartedly agree.
As do I.
Not every experiment works out the way you want. But if you sit on your hands and never try anything new, nothing new and exciting ever happens.
Quote from: cline on April 08, 2013, 12:18:31 PM
QuoteI wonder if Alvin will fire his sports Czar, also a friend
I'm not a Brown apologist but Alan Verlander isn't just some random dude that Brown hired. He does have qualifications to be in that position as former Athletic Director at JU as well as a position at Samford. He contributed to bringing the NCAA tournament here in 2006 and 2010. I'm not saying the Navy-Marine Bball game wasn't completely botched, but to imply that he is some random Brown lackey with no credentials is inaccurate.
Agree completely. He also had worked under Catlett with the GBA as well.
Word. You also need to evaluate the successes along with the failures. There were three soccer games that were major successes. The FL-GA game went well, as did the recent UF-FSU baseball game. The basketball game didn't go as planned, but there has to be room for taking calculated risks if you ever want to do something besides the status quo.
Guys the expertise you all point to regarding the man is further evidence of the fact that three quarter of a million dollars should not have been lost on such an event which was in and of itself a gimmick. He should have known better. Furthermore and more damaging is the fact that the city's own procurement laws and standards were violated. If we want to sit back and talk about why so much fails in Jacksonville then perhaps we need to take a look at how readily and often some are willing to accept this type of mismanagement. It's a lose, lose all the way around. If he were in the private corporate arena he would likely lose his job over a loss this size. Sorry, not buying the "word up" reply this time troops, even if that puts me in the minority at this point in the conversation. We will "never" do better in Jacksonville until we demand better leadership and representation by those entrusted to take our city forward. Who among you can excuse the violation of not one but several of the city's own requirements by an official who is paid 170K to do what should be an exemplary job at that pay grade? Nope, not acceptable and not at all what we should see from a guy as experienced as some claim.
I've been in the private industry my entire life... and I can guarantee you I have never been 100% perfect. If I screwed up then screwed up the exact same way a second time... you better believe I would be out of a job. But cutting a productive ball player just b/c they struck out once on a hanging curveball with a 3-2 count isn't the way to build a championship team (since we're talking sports here).
Hammer S/E all you want about how the game played out, but don't stop playing the game b/c you lost one out of 7 games.
We fired a GREAT public servant once already out of that office... let's not make the same mistake twice.
Ask Charleston how the Navy Classic played out. It was MUCH worse than Jacksonville's experience.
If you're in the mood to eat someone's lunch... it would be fair then to call for the Secretary of the Navy to be fired as well. His office had just a big hand in all of this as COJ did.
Field, it's not about the game win or lose it's about the financial loss in tandem with the violation of the City's own legal requirements for procurement. The Sec of the Navy was not hired and paid for to represent the City of Jacksonville in this agreement and endeavor, Alan Verlander is and his office violated City law and blew three quarter of a million dollars at the same time. No excuses here. It was bad management via Verlander who considering the position and pay grade as well as supposed experience should have never broken city procurement requirements and lost this amount of money. This city needs every penny as evidenced by the yearly budget arguments and continued claims of great shortages. Not good, not good at all.
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 08, 2013, 02:21:44 PM
We will "never" do better in Jacksonville until...
Until the city can get out of its own way and try bold shit. Jax is so often unable to execute on big ideas for fear of failure. It sucks that money was lost, but I would rather that failure, than three $250K studies about why Jax cant support College sports, or how on base military events are unsustainable or some such crap.
Jax needs to be smart, but it also needs to mix in some bold decisions. Going after an NFL team was bold. Bringing the Superbowl to town was bold. Both saw successes and failures. I would like to see more efforts to bring big ideas to town. Some of them will work out... some just wont. Im all for keeping civil servants honest, but second guessing and firing people for making bold efforts to improve the city is the wrong thing to do.
Quote from: Demosthenes on April 08, 2013, 02:57:53 PM
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on April 08, 2013, 02:21:44 PM
We will "never" do better in Jacksonville until...
Until the city can get out of its own way and try bold shit. Jax is so often unable to execute on big ideas for fear of failure. It sucks that money was lost, but I would rather that failure, than three $250K studies about why Jax cant support College sports, or how on base military events are unsustainable or some such crap.
Jax needs to be smart, but it also needs to mix in some bold decisions. Going after an NFL team was bold. Bringing the Superbowl to town was bold. Both saw successes and failures. I would like to see more efforts to bring big ideas to town. Some of them will work out... some just wont. Im all for keeping civil servants honest, but second guessing and firing people for making bold efforts to improve the city is the wrong thing to do.
Bold is good. Bold with lasting impact is even better but breaking our own city laws is neither bold or smart. Truth is beyond bold we need "smart" investment and this does not count as smart investment and this mess is nowhere near going after a NFL team or Superbowl, nor was the return on investment going to be even close. I am hearing more and more excuses but very little input about what makes it okay for a high level city official to break "several" of our own City laws and requirements. That's not bold, it's incompetent. That is not okay. Waste like this is not easily excused in a city that is suffering such economic woes as is Jacksonville.
Sounds like we need more information about the alleged procurement process breakdown. Seems that is a more prudent course of action than immediately calling people incompetent and demanding their heads on a stick.
Quote from: fieldafm on April 08, 2013, 03:39:49 PM
Sounds like we need more information about the alleged procurement process breakdown. Seems that is a more prudent course of action than immediately calling people incompetent and demanding their heads on a stick.
Agreed. Cheshire, care to share with us a breakdown of what happened and what laws were broken since you seem to know and are convinced that he should be fired immediately?
Yeah, I want to know more about these procurement violations before demanding someone's head. As for the event, again, we need to have room for some calculated risks if we want to keep seeing different things, and Verlander has also overseen some great successes, those need to be weighed too.
The soccer match I was referring to was the MLS exhibition in February which reportedly was watched by 7,549 souls.
I won't deny there have been plenty of successes and some surprises with respect to attendance at sports events. Seems to me that if the city is going to have a six-figure official dedicated to building sport-related economic activity, events will routinely be adequately promoted, priced, positioned.
someone has to fall on the sword for this situation, regardless of qualifications or buddy system.
^that's a great way to foster a spirit of innovation and creativity.
It makes me wonder though, if the game had been a smashing success, who would be getting all the credit? Would it be Alan?
Quote from: johnny_simpatico on April 08, 2013, 06:26:20 PM
The soccer match I was referring to was the MLS exhibition in February which reportedly was watched by 7,549 souls.
I won't deny there have been plenty of successes and some surprises with respect to attendance at sports events. Seems to me that if the city is going to have a six-figure official dedicated to building sport-related economic activity, events will routinely be adequately promoted, priced, positioned.
You said "soccer matches". There were three: the MLS friendly, which "only" drew 7,549 - over seven times the crowd of the previous friendly in Orlando; the men's national team game against Scotland, which drew over 44k, and the WNT game, which had over 18k and set a national record for women's soccer. The games ranged between "successful" and "astonishingly successful".
Quote from: dougskiles on April 08, 2013, 06:41:23 PM
^that's a great way to foster a spirit of innovation and creativity.
It makes me wonder though, if the game had been a smashing success, who would be getting all the credit? Would it be Alan?
At any rate, it sounds like he's taking full responsibility. Not sure what more could happen at this stage until we know more.
In reviewing the commentary I can only surmise that many are commenting without reading the entire article. The info is all within it including a statement from Alan as to his actions and the outcome of the event. Secondly I never called for his resignation. What I did say is that were a mistake like this to happen in the corporate world with extensive breaking of corporate rules and loss of three quarters of a million dollars, a person would likely be fired as a result and that's a fact. Certainly someone needs to be held responsible for this mess otherwise we may as well throw out the rules of procurement and start handing out money to whomever wants it. Giving the administration a pass on another major misstep is not a go after this amount of time in office. Seriously guys, you are arguing on behalf of "incompetency" at the highest levels of our government. It makes no sense to do so. It may however behoove everyone to rethink their personal standards of measure as to what is responsible action on the part of a high paid official in our city government. If breaking rules and loosing hundreds of thousands of dollars is a okay in your book and should simply be sniffed at, I honestly don't know what to tell you other than to remind you that these types of losses and poor choices all impact Jacksonville's ability to move forward and do the "positive" things to grow the city everyone talks about. This city has a history of financial missteps and ridiculous losses along with many cases of ignoring their own rules, while at the same time firing employees, limiting city services and library access etc. etc. etc. Something is definitely wrong with this picture and some of that is due to the lack of response on the part of citizens and taxpayers in the face of this type of situation. If you want the status quo of the past, keep making the mistakes of the past and do nothing about it but defend the mistakes and those making them. Do not however expect positive change while doing so.
Quote from: dougskiles on April 08, 2013, 06:41:23 PM
^that's a great way to foster a spirit of innovation and creativity.
It makes me wonder though, if the game had been a smashing success, who would be getting all the credit? Would it be Alan?
it wasn't it lost a ton of money and it looks like procurement rules were broken. guess thats ok in your book.
Quote from: fsquid on April 08, 2013, 07:24:41 PM
Quote from: dougskiles on April 08, 2013, 06:41:23 PM
^that's a great way to foster a spirit of innovation and creativity.
It makes me wonder though, if the game had been a smashing success, who would be getting all the credit? Would it be Alan?
it wasn't it lost a ton of money and it looks like procurement rules were broken. guess thats ok in your book.
As far as I know, there hasn't been an official investigation to determine anything. So, until we know what happened, how it happened, who did it and what impact it had, I don't believe anyone should be asked to "fall on a sword". Let the OGC do an investigation and make recommendations. The Florida Times Union making an accusation hardly qualifies as a guilty verdict in my book.
Quote from: dougskiles on April 08, 2013, 07:48:39 PM
Quote from: fsquid on April 08, 2013, 07:24:41 PM
Quote from: dougskiles on April 08, 2013, 06:41:23 PM
^that's a great way to foster a spirit of innovation and creativity.
It makes me wonder though, if the game had been a smashing success, who would be getting all the credit? Would it be Alan?
it wasn't it lost a ton of money and it looks like procurement rules were broken. guess thats ok in your book.
As far as I know, there hasn't been an official investigation to determine anything. So, until we know what happened, how it happened, who did it and what impact it had, I don't believe anyone should be asked to "fall on a sword". Let the OGC do an investigation and make recommendations. The Florida Times Union making an accusation hardly qualifies as a guilty verdict in my book.
For heaven sakes Doug. They admitted it. This is a direct quote from the TU article.
And the head of the city’s Sports and Entertainment office admitted it violated procurement practices when hiring six vendors and broke city code when it failed to seek contract approval from its sports advisory commission TU did their homework on this. Facts are facts not liking them or the source of them doesn't change the reality of the sizable mistakes made all the way down the line. http://members.jacksonville.com/news/premium/metro/2013-04-06/story/city-lost-736000-navy-marine-classic-corps-basketball-game-and-events#ixzz2Pm1d8xqV
Quote from: dougskiles on April 08, 2013, 07:48:39 PM
Quote from: fsquid on April 08, 2013, 07:24:41 PM
Quote from: dougskiles on April 08, 2013, 06:41:23 PM
^that's a great way to foster a spirit of innovation and creativity.
It makes me wonder though, if the game had been a smashing success, who would be getting all the credit? Would it be Alan?
it wasn't it lost a ton of money and it looks like procurement rules were broken. guess thats ok in your book.
As far as I know, there hasn't been an official investigation to determine anything. So, until we know what happened, how it happened, who did it and what impact it had, I don't believe anyone should be asked to "fall on a sword". Let the OGC do an investigation and make recommendations. The Florida Times Union making an accusation hardly qualifies as a guilty verdict in my book.
based on the article, it seems like admissions have already been made.
This is how the situation has fleshed out.
Quote
The Jacksonville Sports and Entertainment Commission will now oversee the city’s sports trust fund, the commission was told at a meeting Tuesday.
The change in course comes after a Times-Union story Sunday
J
about a $736,000 loss on the Navy-Marine Corps Classic basketball game held on an amphibious assault ship in Mayport in November. The story also pointed out that the commission wasn’t reviewing contracts involving the sports trust fund, which is required by city law.
“I think everyone agrees that we need to improve the process, and I think that’s going to happen,†Mayor Alvin Brown said Tuesday.
Assistant General Counsel Gayle Petrie said Tuesday the commission must approve all contracts for money coming in or out of the trust fund. The contracts will have a maximum amount that can be used from the trust fund for the event, and then Brown or his designee can make payments as needed up to that limit.
The commission had not been approving contracts or getting complete financial information about events. In fact, commissioners had been told by Michael Bouda, who used to head the Sports and Entertainment office, in January 2012 that they were just an advisory board that recommends things but has no power to spend money. Brown said Tuesday he believed an advisory board would be more effective and efficient, but he is fine with the city law as it’s written now.
Commission Chairman Ron Salem said he’s glad the group will have oversight of the finances. He said the commission has gone through a bad situation with the basketball game and the new process will help in the future.
City Council President Bill Bishop said the council may consider creating a special committee to look at the issue.
“The sad part is it was a wonderful event,†Bishop said. “It appears it just wasn’t managed in a fiscally prudent way.â€
Alan Verlander, executive director of the city’s Sports and Entertainment office, told the commission he took full responsibility. He said he saw the game as a success because it was primarily intended to show the city’s support for the military.
However, it was also supposed to raise money for military affairs efforts, which didn’t happen.
Instead, the city almost wiped out the sports trust fund to pay for the more than $700,000 the event lost. The events cost about $2 million and the city received about $1.3 million in revenue to cover those costs. The city continues to crunch budget numbers, but on Friday said the loss was about $736,000, with about $8,300 remaining in the trust fund when all bills were paid and revenue received
For complete article: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2013-04-09/story/commission-will-now-oversee-money-jacksonville-sports-trust-fund
I think we need a $500K study done to determine why this happened.
Quote from: Demosthenes on April 10, 2013, 01:20:00 PM
I think we need a $500K study done to determine why this happened.
Bring this request to council Demosthenes and perhaps they can make this an "emergency" bill kinda like the chairs for 20K.