Neighborhoods: Spring Park
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/2407266020_9VSP4tq-M.jpg)
Metro Jacksonville visits a Southside neighborhood whose residential district includes a number of older homes and several apartment complexes, primarily tucked between Emerson Street, Philips Highway and Beach Boulevard: Spring Park.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013-apr-neighborhoods-spring-park
One of those neighborhoods that's identity is fractured by penetrating boundaries.
What's going in the old dance studio that was on Beach blvd? What ever it is it's very cool.
Nice article. I used to live off Larchmont. Funny, everyone I knew over there considered that area part of St. Nicholas rather than Spring Park. Also, everyone who lived in that little stretch north of Atlantic and west of Bishop Kenny also considered that to be St. Nicholas, though it's part of the Southbank according to Google Maps. I suppose everyone has their own definitions.
Yeah, there's a lot of gray area over there. The actual Spring Park has been renamed St. Nicholas Playground and the original Philips community & several older neighborhoods in the area have been cut in half by I-95.
Great memories for me! My great grandfather owned a considerable amount of property in the LaMee/ Beach (Rd) area. He lived in an old house right off Beach. My oldest great aunt lived with him until his death in 1950 and the house was torn down and a newer one built. My grandparents lived on the south east corner of LaMee and Beach. We lived up the street. SouthGate Plaza was a swamp. I watched them build the shopping center with amazement. When I was in 4th grade, we moved to Taylor St. right off what was then called Patton Dr. (now Emerson) Just a little way west of our house was a wooded area. Which became the site of Philips Highway Plaza! Watched it being built, too.
A few years later, the "Expressway came along. It took away several of our neighbors houses and closed Gallion Rd. We were then 5 houses away from the highway.
Coincidentally, attended Spring Park Elementary and was devastated when it burned in 1968(?). My father's younger cousin was in the first class to attend Spring Park, being transferred from Hendricks Elementary.
Hope this wasn't too boring! it is a piece of my history. lol
Once more piece of information: When Beach Blvd. was widened in the 50's, my grandparents' house was partially taken over for offices for the DOT?. I remember the front of the house being walled off from the rear.
Definitely, not boring. Instead very informational. Thanks for sharing.
Can remember going to Food Fair (later renamed Pantry Pride) as it was the closest grocery store to those of us in Bayard. It was only a 15 min drive and at that time there were no red lights between Bayard and Atlantic Blvd along Philips Hwy. Today there are 36 with more going in for the 9B extension.
Quote from: Tacachale on April 05, 2013, 09:33:58 AM
Nice article. I used to live off Larchmont. Funny, everyone I knew over there considered that area part of St. Nicholas rather than Spring Park. Also, everyone who lived in that little stretch north of Atlantic and west of Bishop Kenny also considered that to be St. Nicholas, though it's part of the Southbank according to Google Maps. I suppose everyone has their own definitions.
Funny you should say that! I live on Traymore - in the neighborhood just behind Havana Jax and The Thrift Store - which is also the street next to Larchmont. We bought the house two years ago and consider ourselves to be in St. Nicholas. I had seen this map before and that we're technically "Spring Park", but I just chose to ignore it because I wanted to claim St. Nicholas. ;) However all of our neighbors (who are in their 60's and 70's and have lived in the same house and/or neighborhood for 30-40 years) consider it St. Nicholas too! I wonder if most people have seen these maps where it gets really specific? I guess the community decides what it wants to be called? My mom lives further down Spring Park Rd. (after you cross Emerson and near Taylor Home) and I always considered that area Spring Park. At the same time, I went to Douglas Anderson for high school and while there I definitely considered that Spring Park, and still would. Either way, as long as my house is behind the old St. Nicholas train station I'll claim St. Nicholas! Thanks for the article!
Wasn't that train station relocated there? I don't think that was the original site.
Quote from: leahg on April 05, 2013, 01:26:55 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on April 05, 2013, 09:33:58 AM
Nice article. I used to live off Larchmont. Funny, everyone I knew over there considered that area part of St. Nicholas rather than Spring Park. Also, everyone who lived in that little stretch north of Atlantic and west of Bishop Kenny also considered that to be St. Nicholas, though it's part of the Southbank according to Google Maps. I suppose everyone has their own definitions.
Funny you should say that! I live on Traymore - in the neighborhood just behind Havana Jax and The Thrift Store - which is also the street next to Larchmont. We bought the house two years ago and consider ourselves to be in St. Nicholas. I had seen this map before and that we're technically "Spring Park", but I just chose to ignore it because I wanted to claim St. Nicholas. ;) However all of our neighbors (who are in their 60's and 70's and have lived in the same house and/or neighborhood for 30-40 years) consider it St. Nicholas too! I wonder if most people have seen these maps where it gets really specific? I guess the community decides what it wants to be called? My mom lives further down Spring Park Rd. (after you cross Emerson and near Taylor Home) and I always considered that area Spring Park. At the same time, I went to Douglas Anderson for high school and while there I definitely considered that Spring Park, and still would. Either way, as long as my house is behind the old St. Nicholas train station I'll claim St. Nicholas! Thanks for the article!
There are some lovely houses on Traymore. Yeah, everyone I knew over there claimed St. Nicholas as well. To me, everything northeast of about the elementary school and along Beach Blvd is St. Nicholas, as is the area to the west of Bishop Kenny. At any rate there aren't any "official" boundaries for these neighborhoods and there's a lot of overlap. Though place names change over time; it will be interesting to see if the proliferation of these names and boundaries on internet maps will affect how people conceptualize their neighborhoods.
Quote from: thelakelander on April 05, 2013, 01:33:00 PM
Wasn't that train station relocated there? I don't think that was the original site.
It was relocated to that location from the other side of Atlantic from I believe Gay Ave. or Linden area. I learned that a few years ago from another Metro Jacksonville post on the St. Nicholas neighborhood! :)
However, now it is three houses down from me in my "Spring Park" neighborhood next to Havana Jax and Cuba Libre (which I think are also considered Spring Park if we're getting map-technical), but many highlight as St. Nicholas landmarks.
Again - I
personally want to claim that I live in St. Nicholas. And I think when I tell friends, family, and people in general that I live in St. Nicholas I think they understand where I'm talking about vs. Spring Park. Though I have met people that live in the "real" St. Nicholas and they seem to think I'm wacko for saying I also live in St. Nicholas! Ha, ha!
^I hear you, I lived in two different places which I and all my neighbors considered to be St. Nicholas, and was surprised to see on Google Maps and elsewhere that neither was included in the neighborhood. Of course I've also heard people from Miramar claim San Marco and people in the Fishweir Creek/Fairfax area claim Avondale, so I guess some place names just have a certain recognizability and appeal. I wouldn't have thought St. Nicholas would be quite that prominent, though it is a great neighborhood!
For the most part, we're talking about neighborhoods that have been developed for a full century. It should not be unexpected that over time, strict boundaries fade away and in some cases, new area names come to light. That's certainly the case in this instance and other areas in the city, such as loss of Sugar Hill and the "expansion" of what's considered Riverside/Avondale.
^Or "South Jacksonville"/"Southside". The St. Nicholas case is interesting though, since the change on the maps doesn't seem to have followed a change in use by the residents. Where do you get your maps from?
Must agree about South Jacksonville. My older relatives always referred to it in that manner. Downtown was also referred to as "uptown."
Quote from: Tacachale on April 05, 2013, 02:28:14 PM
^Or "South Jacksonville"/"Southside". The St. Nicholas case is interesting though, since the change on the maps doesn't seem to have followed a change in use by the residents. Where do you get your maps from?
That particular map came from Walkscore.com.
http://www.walkscore.com/FL/Jacksonville
Walkscore used the city's old neighborhoods map. There used to be a PDF copy on COJ.net, during the Peyton Administration but I'm having trouble finding it now.
The train station that is now by the Cuban restaurant was originally furthur down Beach Blvd. across from SouthGate. It was used by the Girl Scouts and was my Brownie Hut in the 50's.
Does anyone know anything about the new Urban Partners building on Beach? I want to say it was the old dance studio.
The address is 3236 Beach Blvd. Urban Partners. Nice building. But out of place? Would this mean that the urban core boundaries extend into St. Nicholas and Spring Park?
St. Nicholas is a part of the pre-consolidated city. Just prior to 1932, it was an extension of the City of South Jacksonville.
^Is that Urban Partners your building? It's a beautiful building. So what is the boundry if you will of the Urban Core on the Southside. Any chance that it extends to Pottsburg Creek?
It's not mine. The old city limit boundary was roughly Millers Creek to the east and just north of Phillips Mall on the south.
The boundaries are probably correct, but people would rather say they live in St. Nicholas than Spring Park. And I say that as someone who lived right nearby in Santa Monica, in the the Englewood area, for 35 years. St. Nicholas is perceived as having more cache than Spring Park. Similarly, people who live in the closer in part of Lakewood probably say they live in San Marco. And I know people who live west of the ditch who say they live at the Beach. :-)
Noone, it depends on what you consider the "urban core". Much of the area was part of South Jacksonville prior to 1932, when it was annexed by Jax. After that, I believe the city limits in this part of town stayed the same until consolidation.
I'm having a hard time finding a good map, but I think South Jacksonville's boundaries changed a time or two between its incorporation in 1907 and 1932. However, as Lake says by 1932, the part of St. Nicholas/Spring Park west of about Millers Creek was included (and was thus part of Jax afterward). There were a few other annexations after 1932 but not in this area specifically.
So, if the whole "Old City" is the urban core, then the western part of the neighborhood is in and the eastern part is out.
I think Wayne Wood's book on Jax architecture defines it pretty well. (the boundaries) I would look on there, but my copy is on loan.
Tacachale, Thanks for the explanation. So the Urban Partners building is in the Urban Core using the 1932 boundary. Interesting.
Again nice job with the reuse of the old dance studio.
Quote from: Noone on April 11, 2013, 04:01:14 PM
Tacachale, Thanks for the explanation. So the Urban Partners building is in the Urban Core using the 1932 boundary. Interesting.
Again nice job with the reuse of the old dance studio.
Yes, I think I found it on Google Maps. That address is definitely within the old city.
When we moved here in 1966, Emerson Street was the city limit.
Debbie, before that, the boundary was a little north of there. It was behind our house and on Spring Park road it was right near Adirolf Road. I remember it well. A guy I went to school with was constantly being chased by the police for speeding. He knew EXACTLY where the line was and made a point of heading there. Back then, Jax Police couldn't cross into the county without permission
^I don't know about outrunning the cops to the city limits (sounds a little Smoky and the Banditish to me, and of course it wouldn't do any good with a sheriff's officer or state trooper), but the limits didn't go as far south as Emerson in Spring Park before 1968. That's probably a major reason why the layout is so ideosyncratic there. West of Hendricks, though, the city limits went farther south of Emerson, after the Colonial Manor area was annexed in 1937.
outlandish, but true. things were a little primitive back then and the different branches of the law were often very competitive and viewed each other as interlopers
Note that in most of the home photos the lack of sidewalks, and the strip mall with booby Bars,andone one save a lot grosery store.