Metro Jacksonville

When Downtown Jacksonville Was The Place to Be

(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-4721-bay-ocean.jpg)

During the mid-20th century, the Northbank street scene was quite different from what one would experience today. During the 1950's Downtown Jacksonville was the epicenter of life on the First Coast.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013-mar-when-downtown-jacksonville-was-the-place-to-be

Wow. There used to really be a town here.

Too bad that "they" decided to kill it off.

I moved to Jacksonville in 1955 at age 18, and loved it.  Retired and left Jax in 1992.  I hardly recognize the
place when I go back.  Have many fond memories, married there, saw Elvis several times, and enjoyed
a nice job and good retirement.  Jax was very good to my husband and I...
Thanks for the memories....

I am not from Jacksonville. I am from central Florida. It seems like Jacksonville was headed towards becoming more of a metropolitan area than it is today. Can someone explain to me what happened? How could Tampa and Orlando outgrow Jax? Please give me the details.

I live in a the midst of a disaster flick -- aftermath of the alien invasion.  Can the survivors rebuild?  Where's Stallone?

Why are there only pictures of 'white areas' of downtown Jacksonville in the 50s'? I notice there is not one picture of Ashley Street or of any of the black areas of downtown Jacksonville. Racism was and is so deeply inbedded in Jacksonville that blacks are omitted from a lot of Jacksonville history except of course negative portrails of blacks. Blacks in the 50s' worked hard and prospered in spite of segregation and 'jim crow' laws and attitutes that continue in the hearts and minds of whites and other ethnic groups today.

This article was put together to show building density and activity in the heart of the central business district during its heyday. Personally, I didn't even notice the color of people until it was just mentioned. Nevertheless, we have photo threads and history tours of just about every neighborhood in urban Jax on this site. LaVilla was one of the most interesting communities in town, when it was around, however it was its own neighborhood and deserves its own threads (which we have several).

I've got to confess in spite of an almost eternal optimism, I was in a state of shock when I came back here from my Andean perch. 'Home' is less then half the size that it was 40 years ago.

The photo above could just as easily be Denver, Oklahoma City, Kansas City, St. Louis etc., just stir in some fantastic modern high rises. NONE of those cities achieved incredible vibrant downtown's by imploding entire urban neighborhoods. Having grown up at Jacksonville Terminal (The Prime Osborn to the unwashed masses) I missed some of my old haunts in downtown.

LaVilla = GONE, Brooklyn = GONE, Sugar Hill = GONE, Fairfield = GONE, Springfield Warehouse District = SLIPPING AWAY.

BTW ladypoimen, As a largely unknown historical note, my father was Navy Exchange Officer for the Southeast Region in NEX services - Barbers, Beauty Shops, Tailors, Watch Makers, etc. He took the 'porters' and went to war training them as professional barbers. No doubt he faced some battles, but in the end he prevailed for the betterment of all.

You could argue that the sale of Atlantic National, Florida National and Barnett Banks didn't hurt downtown because the banks that gobbled them up retained a presence there - and still do. But I don't think you can say the same for the sales of Gulf Life, Independent Life, Peninsular Life, American Heritage, and probably others I've forgotten. True it is that downtown isn't what it once was, but that doesn't mean that we're not a huge metropolitan area. We are. It's just that we' spread out to what once were suburbs. In the 50s even something as close in as Southoint didn't exist. Orange Park and Middleburg were really small bedroom communities - not considered a part of Jacksonville. Mandarin was only sparsely developed, and almost all was west of State Road 13 which was a two-lane road all the way from what is now the Southbank. And the Southbank was the home of only Baptist Hospital - not yet a medical center - and the original Prudential Building. Not much else was there.

Why did Orlando pass Jacksonville? C'mon. In a word, Disney World. Tampa? A bigger, better port, accessible without navigating tricky currents of a river for a few miles, and a few hundred miles closer to the Panama Canal than we are.

Speaking of Independent Life and Peninsular Life, why is it that after jilting Jacksonville we still have streets named after them. I'd change those in a NY minute if I got to make the rules.

QuoteWhy did Orlando pass Jacksonville? C'mon. In a word, Disney World. Tampa? A bigger, better port, accessible without navigating tricky currents of a river for a few miles, and a few hundred miles closer to the Panama Canal than we are.

Yeah, Orlando has passed several metros in population growth due to Disney and the other theme parks.  However, we tend to overlook this fact but Jacksonville was never significantly larger than Tampa or Miami in the early 20th century.  For example:

1920:

91,558 - Jacksonville
51,608 - Tampa
29,549 - Miami

1930:

129,549 - Jacksonville
110,637 - Miami
101,161 - Tampa

What these numbers don't show is the population of the cities that were adjacent to Miami and Tampa.  For example, in 1930, St. Petersburg had 40,425. Combine these two bay area neighbors together and that area was already larger than Northeast Florida after the roaring 20s.

QuoteTrue it is that downtown isn't what it once was, but that doesn't mean that we're not a huge metropolitan area. We are. It's just that we' spread out to what once were suburbs.

In the grand scheme of these, we're not a huge metropolitan area.  We're a second or third tier area, when lined up against places like NYC, LA, Miami and Atlanta.  We're not even that spread out compared to most places.  We just tend to think we're larger than what we really are because of consolidation. The spread out factor becomes a bigger issue because our city and county are roughly the same.  In essence, Jacksonville is a city, suburbs and rural area all rolled into one.  In reality, we're roughly the same size as a Memphis, Salt Lake City or Providence and notch below places like St. Louis, San Diego and Denver.

Love the night picture of Forsyth St, look at all the lights and signs. It shows a city on the move. Now that same shot at night is almost pitch black as is most of the downtown, no pride from most building managers to not even light their buildings anymore.

That article makes me ill, so much wasted by stupendously bad planning.

Quote from: thelakelander on March 31, 2013, 08:18:08 PM

QuoteWhy did Orlando pass Jacksonville? C'mon. In a word, Disney World. Tampa? A bigger, better port, accessible without navigating tricky currents of a river for a few miles, and a few hundred miles closer to the Panama Canal than we are.

Yeah, Orlando has passed several metros in population growth due to Disney and the other theme parks.  However, we tend to overlook this fact but Jacksonville was never significantly larger than Tampa or Miami in the early 20th century.  For example:

1920:

91,558 - Jacksonville
51,608 - Tampa
29,549 - Miami

1930:

129,549 - Jacksonville
110,637 - Miami
101,161 - Tampa

What these numbers don't show is the population of the cities that were adjacent to Miami and Tampa.  For example, in 1930, St. Petersburg had 40,425. Combine these two bay area neighbors together and that area was already larger than Northeast Florida after the roaring 20s.

QuoteTrue it is that downtown isn't what it once was, but that doesn't mean that we're not a huge metropolitan area. We are. It's just that we' spread out to what once were suburbs.

In the grand scheme of these, we're not a huge metropolitan area.  We're a second or third tier area, when lined up against places like NYC, LA, Miami and Atlanta.  We're not even that spread out compared to most places.  We just tend to think we're larger than what we really are because of consolidation. The spread out factor becomes a bigger issue because our city and county are roughly the same.  In essence, Jacksonville is a city, suburbs and rural area all rolled into one.  In reality, we're roughly the same size as a Memphis, Salt Lake City or Providence and notch below places like St. Louis, San Diego and Denver.

It's also worth noting that in the early 20th century and before, Jacksonville wasn't substantially larger than Pensacola, Tallahassee and other areas that have long been surpassed. Additionally, at the time Florida was a much smaller state. Jax has continued to grow but so have other areas, some more quickly. Jax gets knocked for the sprawl but it's not any worse than Tampa or Miami and it's no where near as bad as Orlando. The takeaway isn't that Jacksonville hasn't fallen from some glorious past, but that we haven't found a way to overcome problems in our downtown that every other city suffered, and that many have overcome.

LBJ at Hemming Park...I was there.  Roosevelt Hotel, tragic fire.  Ferrell Jewelers, silver dollars embedded in the concrete in front.  So many memories, good and bad of Jacksonville, mostly good.

To fsujax:  As a child, my father shrimped at the end Of Holmesdale Road on the Southside.  One of my favorite things to do was to look across the river at all the lights....especially the lights atop the roofs of all the big hotels.  It was an awesome display beneath the stars.

It does look like an entirely different city. Quite sad...

I read this before when it originally posted and was educated, shocked and a little dismayed, but since it has been over a month and MetroJacksonville posted this thread on their Facebook page I decided to look at it in a different view.  What can be done to bring it back?  Obviously other downtowns reached this same outcome, yet they figured how to overcome.  So for those coming back to this thread, what is the next step?  Personally, I think bringing back business would help.  Offices get filled, people need to eat lunch or pick up a few items heading home, then they start wanting to live closer to work.  As much as I disagree when the City offers outrageous perks to business, I do feel it is necessary for the overall benefit in The Big Picture.  Thoughts?

Having just joined the forums today, sorry for my belated question -- but, from a neutral perspective, why hasn't Jacksonville's downtown prospered since the 1950s?

I saw earlier answers say that we had land and expansion to the suburbs -- but didn't Tampa and Miami have the same expansion options as us?  Why weren't we able to maintain the urban core?  Is it because land is so cheap in Northern Florida? 

An earlier post said that we didn't do a good job coordinating/planning land development.  Is that right?  What mistakes were made?  Others seemingly suggested white flight -- is that right?  Why haven't we gotten the prosperous recovery like other cities that suffered from white flight?

Would love to hear an unbiased answer as to why Jacksonville's downtown has languished in the past 50 years...

Thanks -- and really excited to contribute to these forums!

Almost all American cities' downtowns declined from the 1950s into the 80's and 90's. However, many have managed to recover to varying degrees. We haven't managed it yet. In my mind, the biggest culprits are inconsistent leadership and lack of vision.

Welcome to the forums, JasonM.  There are some great articles on the site that cover many of the reasons downtown hasn't recovered as it should from its decline phase.  Among them are

an excessive enthusiasm for demolition (in some cases for projects that never materialized, in some cases gratuitously)

ill-advised and/or not fully realized master plans for the core

failure to appreciate downtown's historic fabric

traffic flow pattern changes that prevented neighboring areas from easily accessing downtown

excessive faith that specific major projects would solve all problems

failure to cluster complementary projects and assets (e.g., placement of the convention center far away from hotels, the Landing, and other activity nodes)

poor provision of basic needs for downtown visitors  (e.g., absence of modern parking meters, poor directional signage)

decimation of downtown as a multi-modal transportation hub with the eviction of port activities, marine industry, and rail service


Cheap land and suburban developer-friendly policies certainly seem to have contributed to forestalling a comeback, as you suggested.

"failure to cluster complementary projects and assets"
I feel this is the biggest problem.  Jason, If you look around this site, you will see some patterns.  I feel many of the politicians (many) have been doing small variations on the same failing methodologies for 50 years.  Most of the recent great that has taken place had more to do with disenfranchised citizens taking projects into their own hands. 

There's no doubt it's heartbreaking to see how much Jax has lost over the years.  But it's important to remember most cities went through the same thing. The key is to recognize the importance of a vibrant downtown and do the right things to bring Jacksonville's back.  We have to continue beating that drum, spreading the word, and encouraging the residents of the city to support the effort.  Even with all that's been lost, there is still good raw material to work with here.  It's not too late.

+1

Don't forget to lay some of the blame for the decline of downtown onto Ira Koger.  He invented the suburban office park right here in Jacksonville and we still have more than our fair share of them.  They certainly contributed to sprawl and the move of the banks and insurance companies out to the hinterlands.

Quote from: Dog Walker on July 27, 2013, 04:04:36 PM
Don't forget to lay some of the blame for the decline of downtown onto Ira Koger.  He invented the suburban office park right here in Jacksonville and we still have more than our fair share of them.  They certainly contributed to sprawl and the move of the banks and insurance companies out to the hinterlands.

+1

It just struck me that having a vibrant downtown is really "old school".  I'm not so old after all.