Metro Jacksonville

$78 million fix announced for I-95 and JTB interchange

(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-4324-p1090278.JPG)

More road construction is headed to the Southside. Today, Governor Rick Scott, along with Florida Department of Transportation (FDOT) Secretary Ananth Prasad, announced an additional $78 million project to improve the safety and mobility on Interstate 95 and J. Turner Butler Boulevard.  This funding is included in Governor Scott?s Florida Families First Budget that he unveiled last month.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013-feb-78-million-fix-announced-for-i-95-and-jtb-interchange

Thank god. Long overdue.

oh boy...I'm so excited!!!!

This is one road project I can live with, and is overdue.  I can't say the same about some of the others they are cooking up...

The question is - will this become part of the "Lexus Lane" system?  I wouldn't mind seeing that either.  Keep the existing interchange for those who don't want to pay and allow the flyover for those who do.

I can live with this one as well, although I still believe there should be a bike/ped component to offer the possibility of connecting both sides of I-95 in Southpoint. I hope it's toll so it will at least get the taxpayer some form of ROI. This was the old $125 million JTA plan.  It sounds like the state's $78 million plan might be somewhat different.

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/892391468_KKgcw-M.jpg)

it's a scaled down version of the JTA designed one.

Quote from: thelakelander on February 19, 2013, 02:48:02 PM
I can live with this one as well, although I still believe there should be a bike/ped component to offer the possibility of connecting both sides of I-95 in Southpoint. I hope it's toll so it will at least get the taxpayer some form of ROI. This was the old $125 million JTA plan.  It sounds like the state's $78 million plan might be somewhat different.

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/892391468_KKgcw-M.jpg)

Do we know if there is any sort of bike/ped component?

Yeah, but how in the world will it make money?? ;)

Quote from: cline on February 19, 2013, 03:46:26 PM
Do we know if there is any sort of bike/ped component?

Doubt it.  It's a watered down version of JTA's plan and JTA's plan did not include a bike/ped component.

Here's FDOT's plan for the I-95/JTB interchange:

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Transit/Roads-and-Bridges/Misc-Jax-Roads/i-FqRRKnf/0/M/Project%20Graphic%20announced%20by%20Gov%20Scott%20on%202-19-13-M.jpg)

This is an incremental update, not the full replacement JTA sought. At least they will have something in the pipeline when they start the I-95 redux between University and I-295.  It deals with the two safety issues highest.  It would be a great step if they could find a few $$ for some pedestrian access. This exit is ringed with business and hotels in 3 of the quadrants, with food services in the fourth. Prime candidate for a pedestrian friendly ring.

Over due!

Quote from: dougskiles on February 19, 2013, 02:37:34 PM
The question is - will this become part of the "Lexus Lane" system?  I wouldn't mind seeing that either.  Keep the existing interchange for those who don't want to pay and allow the flyover for those who do.

the answer is no...apparently because neither I-95 or JTB are currently tolled....awesome logic!

This interchange upgrade is needed, but i don't understand why the tolled flyover was abandoned.  When Prassad sat down with the Times Union Editorial Board... he was adamant that tolls were the only way these projects made financial sense going forward in a new permanent era of limited transportation funds.  What changed b/w now and then?  A toll could partially offset maintenance costs and could payoff debt service for a pedestrian connection.  If they spend money on palm trees here, they could just as easily spend money instead on such multi-modal capacity.

Prasad has also said that all new interstate capacity and bridges would be strongly considered for tolls...and yet the $400 million I-75 widening north of Tampa and the $600 million replacement bridge on US 98 over Pensacola Bridge will be free

Quote from: thelakelander on February 19, 2013, 07:41:17 PM
Here's FDOT's plan for the I-95/JTB interchange:

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Transit/Roads-and-Bridges/Misc-Jax-Roads/i-FqRRKnf/0/M/Project%20Graphic%20announced%20by%20Gov%20Scott%20on%202-19-13-M.jpg)

I don't disagree that it's a valuable and justifiable improvement, but $78 million is an unconscionable amount of money for it. Until we can figure out what drives our costs so high, I think infrastructure activists of all stripes are going to be fighting an uphill battle. Any guesses how how long this will take and how expensive it'll actually be?

With fuel prices climbing daily, no one would notice if a couple pennies tax was added in to pay for these projects and add to the kitty for future maintenance. Take a lesson from Congress and tack on an obscure amendment to an under the radar bill.

QuoteI don't disagree that it's a valuable and justifiable improvement, but $78 million is an unconscionable amount of money for it. Until we can figure out what drives our costs so high, I think infrastructure activists of all stripes are going to be fighting an uphill battle. Any guesses how how long this will take and how expensive it'll actually be?

As long as the money is going to highways , then no amount is too much.  And even the most diehard tea partier will not question it. It prompts sprawl at the expense of already developed areas, so all politicos of all stripes will do whatever is necessary to accomplish it. 

guess that answers Cline's questions about sidewalks, bike lanes and a multi-use path. FDOT says no.

Was JTB at some point supposed to cross the river? That whole setup just seems odd.

^^Yes. Was suppose to connect to Timuquana Rd/103rd St.

*Que the obligatory misunderstood "this money would be better spent on (either) the homeless, urban infrastructure, mass transit, or our public schools" post*

Quote from: spuwho on February 19, 2013, 08:06:20 PM
This is an incremental update, not the full replacement JTA sought. At least they will have something in the pipeline when they start the I-95 redux between University and I-295.  It deals with the two safety issues highest.  It would be a great step if they could find a few $$ for some pedestrian access. This exit is ringed with business and hotels in 3 of the quadrants, with food services in the fourth. Prime candidate for a pedestrian friendly ring.

I guess an incremental update is better than nothing. This exit has been a mess for years. The only thing I don't really understand is why everyone wants pedestrian access. Have you been over there lately? There is virtually no one walking around the JTB/95 commercial area. And it not exactly a heavily residential location either.

Ever wonder why no one walks around there?  My guess would be it's probably the same reason you don't see as many people bicycling on Southside Boulevard as there probably would, giving that area's population density. Do a simple experiment by getting out of your car and hitting the shoulder on foot to get an accurate feeling on the risk you place your life in and you'll quickly figure out why.

When I speak of improving pedestrian/bicycle connections, I'm coming from a point-of-view that looks at the landscape and transportation infrastructure long term.  Like similar suburban business districts across the country, that area will continue to densify in the future and if JTA adds BRT and commuter rail, what good is a station or TOD there if you can't even get across I-95 to access the mix of uses on either side of it? 

This graphic is a future visual representation of this area by the community that lives in the vicinity of this project.  At what point do you start designing future projects to help achieve this vision?

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Studies/Jacksonville-Southeast-Vision/0736SEFinalVisionLowResPage039/782177251_8W9d9-L.jpg)

Yeah but it's not a primarily residential area. You wouldn't be connecting neighborhoods, you would be connecting McDonalds with Cracker Barrel. I understand you're talking long term though, I guess I just have a hard time picturing the area ever becoming much of a suburban business district. It seems like it's mainly just going to be business/commercial.

In recent years there have been thousands of multifamily units added on both sides of I-95 in that area and there's already hundreds of thousands of square footage in office and commercial use.  Here are a few pics:

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/2336738849_wMqt9dP-M.jpg)

(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-4351-p1090262.JPG)

There's also a ton of more land available for infill of all kinds.  Also, the average trip length of a cyclist in Florida is 1.92 miles.  It's 0.66 miles for a pedestrian.  Using center of the interchange, if you drew a 1.92 mile radius from that point, you'll hit a lot more than McDonalds, Chick-Fil-A, and Wendy's. The infrastructure and land use policy we invest in will play a significant role on what type of future infill occurs.....totally autocentric or multimodal compatible.  Multimodal compatible tends to generate higher returns to the tax rolls than autocentric. 

Furthermore, even if the area was 100% commercial, connectivity should still be desired if we're going to invest in transit to serve the area.  Stronger multimodal connectivity will create an opportunity where one could reside in the Northside, Downtown, Jax Beach, etc. and commute to this district instead of being forced to drive on JTB or I-95.  Money saved per household choosing to do so becomes more disposable income that supports local businesses. By diverting a portion of auto trips to other modes, you also reduce the need to invest additional billions in widening I-95 and JTB at some distant point in the future. Ultimately, we have complete control over what these areas become in the future.  At some point, if we want our vision plans to become reality, we'll have to actually attempt to implement them.

Very true. I guess if nothing else it couldn't hurt. I mean how much extra does it really cost to modify the tons of concrete we're already going to be adding to accommodate a few pedestrians and bicyclists?

I don't believe you would have to modify the flyovers.  You would want these modes physically separated from each other.  I suspect a completely separate pedestrian overpass over I-95 somewhere in the vicinity of this interchange would run you somewhere between $1 - $3 million, depending on the design.  Before someone claims that too expensive, we're currently spending $78 million to address movement on only one mode and we recently spent $2 million to landscape the JTB/I-295 East Beltway interchange.  I for one could do with less palm trees and mulch if such funds could be redirected to improving other modes, saving lives and enhancing mobility in the process.

Quote from: tufsu1 on February 19, 2013, 10:20:51 PM
Prasad has also said that all new interstate capacity and bridges would be strongly considered for tolls...and yet the $400 million I-75 widening north of Tampa and the $600 million replacement bridge on US 98 over Pensacola Bridge will be free

Doesn't mean they didn't strongly consider tolls for those projects.

yes...but I think he's backing off this plan for now because the Governor is seeing just how unpopular the idea of tolls is (whether right or wrong)....all these announcements are being set up to raise Scott's approval ratings before 2014 and to garner campaign contributions

It's not like a simple solution for bikes and pedestrians to get under the FREEway is all that hard or expensive to figure out. Palatka and CSX came up with a dandy solution. These types of under-crossing's are used extensively in the west, farm roads by the hundreds duck through steel pipe, in Tumcumcarri New Mexico, the old Rock Island Railroad mainline went through one. Considering the financial shape 'The Rock' was in when the FREEway came along, this is no doubt the cheapest solution.