Black History and Painful Truths
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This year, we swore in more than just a president, we swore in a new zeitgeist for our nation. We may cynically yawn at the president's call for a more inclusive society but we forget that exactly half a century ago, an Alabama governor used his inaugural address as a rallying cry for segregationists and as a warning shot to integrationists. "In the name of the greatest people that have ever trod this earth, I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny, and I say segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever," said Governor George Wallace.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013-feb-black-history-and-painful-truths
Funny how you forgot DEMOCRATIC Governor.
Intelligent and thoughtful insight. Thank you Mr. Meeks.
Thanks for the honest and fearless editorial.
The subject here really exposes the direct result of the "Post Martin" era, as I like to call it. Let me bring attention to this particular sentence laid at the end of your editorial: " As long as we take for granted the accomplishments of the past and as long as we bite the hand that is trying to feed us, we have not overcome and we never will."
I had to read the article twice to be sure I understand your position though I'm not 100% positive that I do. If, so please correct me in love if I have misunderstood. I'm lead to ask, though, "who" or "what" is "the hand that feed's us"? And who is "us"? Are we talking about society at large and if so, who or what is the "hand that feed us"? Or are we talking about African American society? If the latter, are talking about people, policies, laws and establishments brought about as a result of the Civil Rights movements and other socio political movements as "the hand that feed us"?
Either way, the issue has to be first dissected and brought into perspective, which I personally feel (that due to the forum) will be (and was for you) difficult to do. It almost sounds as though your article is has two prominent points of one theme:
1. White teachers and their disadvantage in "teaching" urban youth.
2. The proliferation of "crying race"
Let me start with the "White Teacher, Urban( Black) Student". I'm a child of the 80s, and the year before I started 7th grade, a program called "Majority-Minority" (M&M) was introduced. The purpose was to allow us urban (Black) students to attend schools outside of our districts. These schools were majority White and were in majority White suburbs. In addition, teachers were given certain incentives to teach in our urban schools. My school in particular was filled with Black teachers who lived right in the neighborhood. My mom is still close friends with several people who taught me. By the time I was in the 9th grade, these neighborhood teachers were replaced with younger, liberal-minded White teachers. A school with a 100% Black student body had Black instructors in TWO classes, band and gym. So what? Well, I noticed, first hand, the decline of my friends who stayed at our school and even the ones who took advantage of the opportunity to go to the suburban schools. As a matter of fact, the ones who participated in Minority-Majority faired MUCH worse. I saw shop class taken out of my school, along with home economics and other programs and clubs that TAUGHT SKILL. We stopped receiving the tidbits of knowledge and history about our people and even our own neighborhood! We went from a solid school body that represented well in local scholastic competitions, like Scholar's Bowl, to a rough and rugged Junior High School that gained a horrible reputation in a little less than two years. I saw this happen! None of these characteristics were true during my 7th grade year. So I thought what happened!? (yes, back then I thought like this) It wasn't until I noticed one of the new teachers disciplining one of the known "troublemakers" that it hit me. Communication. Not that the teacher simply didn't know what he was saying, and he didn't know what she was saying. But they didn't understand what each other were saying. They couldn't peer into each other's perspective. What happened was, you took a white teacher from a very different background and culture and you put her in a new and unfamiliar culture to not only socialize with, but also teach a child within that culture. The same happened with my friends whose parents opted to send them AWAY from their community to be educated, only they had teachers AND students who they didn’t identify with on any level to socialize with. Again, let’s TRY and keep “race†out. It hasn’t a real place.
What has happened in Black America is that we've constantly sold away our own culture and community for this dream of acceptance and equality. And I do mean dream because there is no real definition for "acceptance and equality" in the context of this country today. Meaning, you are free and equal according to YOUR deeds and principles. We know the problems, we know what caused and causes them. The troubled kid mentioned earlier may very well have been helped by a teacher who lived in, or even understood who he was and his culture. And I know this to be true because this particular student’s parents and situation was known by the former teachers and was getting an education until M&M was instituted. What's happening in BLACK America has VERY LITTLE to do with race, itself (however, there are institutions and systems in place that play a big part that I won’t touch on here as I feel this is specific to the two points mentioned above). But it has everything to do with culture and this idea that we need a sweeping savior. And it's two sided. Today's generation of Whites is just as removed from the Civil Rights era, if not MORE. It's not their responsibility or duty to make amends in my opinion. They should carry on their forefathers’ legacies. It's MY responsibility as a father (I have three sons) and member of my community to make sure I raise productive young men, to make sure that I overlook my affairs, lead and create legacy for my generations to come. And to do that I feel history including and beyond American Civil Rights is key. I believe being FREE and ACCEPTED amongst Blacks FIRST is key. And for this to happen we must take a serious look in our communities. Like my mom did for me, I do for my sons. Remember, your average Black in America knows very little about his or her history beyond what is taught in the school systems, and our annual Black History Month (which in my opinion is due an overhaul). As a educator I'm sure you would agree that knowledge unlocks doors and frees the mind. But gaining of knowledge starts at home, not in the classroom. And that is the disadvantage that the White teacher AND the urban (Black) youth BOTH have.
Now about crying race. I cringe when I hear "racist". Or when I hear "…because he/she/I was/am Black". And I like you worry about what would happen if there is a REAL racist attack on people of color. How would anyone know if the complaint is authentic? I won't go into my rant on the so-called leaders of the Black Community. But I am often perplexed at the amount of racist charges from a group that seems hell-bent on imitating and being accepted into the so-called "racist" community. Let me explain: several years ago Jesse Jackson’s Rainbow coalition filed suite against NASCAR stating there should be more African American Drivers. He also called NASCAR a "Bastion of White Supremacy". Is racing such a social past time in African American communities? If so, why was there no plan or push to create a racing league for those parties interested? And no, it shouldn't have been a push for a "Black NASCAR". After all most national pass times grew from communities to include all. But, NASCAR, a national pass time that grew out of prohibition is now racists. What did I miss? I often asked, who were the multitudes of black drivers being rejected? I haven't fully researched that so I digress. But we see this on and on. Another example: Halle Berry and the Academy Award. I often asked, why wasn't her Essence Award "good enough"? Again I digress. My point is, Blacks have to value Blacks before we see a change in our condition. The laws are what they are. The history is what it is. In the meantime, we have sufficient capital and sufficient education and/or access to education to completely turn this situation around. But it has to happen from within.
I apologize for such a long "comment". Oh, I am a graduate of The University of Alabama. I know first hand the legacy of the famous speech.
Quote from: stephendare on February 06, 2013, 03:26:58 PM
Quote from: bill on February 06, 2013, 03:14:14 PM
Funny how you forgot DEMOCRATIC Governor.
wow. just wow.
I know easy to omit when it does not fit your narrative.
Quote from: bill on February 06, 2013, 03:14:14 PM
Funny how you forgot DEMOCRATIC Governor.
Almost everyone in the Deep South was a Democrat, so it should be no surprise that the Solid South was run by segregationist Democrats. We forget, however, that there were Democrats from the North who did try to make meaningful change in our nation. I agree that George Wallace, Strom Thurmond, John Stennis and their like were racist Democrats, but we forget that the mayor of Minneapolis gave a rousing speech in 1948 that sough to push forward a civil rights agenda. Hubert Humphrey's remarks resulted in the 'Dixiecrats' walking out from the convention. There is more to the Democratic Party than just tagging them all as segregationists back then. The New Deal coalition was a large tent that included people from the urban centers as well as the rural sectors of our nation. It is oversimplifying the issue to claim that every Democrat wore a sheet back in the day.
Quote from: bill on February 06, 2013, 06:25:11 PM
Quote from: stephendare on February 06, 2013, 03:26:58 PM
Quote from: bill on February 06, 2013, 03:14:14 PM
Funny how you forgot DEMOCRATIC Governor.
wow. just wow.
I know easy to omit when it does not fit your narrative.
Bill.... Please go back and read the essay... Beyond the first paragraph.
Quote from: Webini on February 06, 2013, 05:59:10 PM
Thanks for the honest and fearless editorial.
The subject here really exposes the direct result of the "Post Martin" era, as I like to call it. Let me bring attention to this particular sentence laid at the end of your editorial: " As long as we take for granted the accomplishments of the past and as long as we bite the hand that is trying to feed us, we have not overcome and we never will."
I had to read the article twice to be sure I understand your position though I'm not 100% positive that I do. If, so please correct me in love if I have misunderstood. I'm lead to ask, though, "who" or "what" is "the hand that feed's us"? And who is "us"? Are we talking about society at large and if so, who or what is the "hand that feed us"? Or are we talking about African American society? If the latter, are talking about people, policies, laws and establishments brought about as a result of the Civil Rights movements and other socio political movements as "the hand that feed us"?
Either way, the issue has to be first dissected and brought into perspective, which I personally feel (that due to the forum) will be (and was for you) difficult to do. It almost sounds as though your article is has two prominent points of one theme:
1. White teachers and their disadvantage in "teaching" urban youth.
2. The proliferation of "crying race"
Let me start with the "White Teacher, Urban( Black) Student". I'm a child of the 80s, and the year before I started 7th grade, a program called "Majority-Minority" (M&M) was introduced. The purpose was to allow us urban (Black) students to attend schools outside of our districts. These schools were majority White and were in majority White suburbs. In addition, teachers were given certain incentives to teach in our urban schools. My school in particular was filled with Black teachers who lived right in the neighborhood. My mom is still close friends with several people who taught me. By the time I was in the 9th grade, these neighborhood teachers were replaced with younger, liberal-minded White teachers. A school with a 100% Black student body had Black instructors in TWO classes, band and gym. So what? Well, I noticed, first hand, the decline of my friends who stayed at our school and even the ones who took advantage of the opportunity to go to the suburban schools. As a matter of fact, the ones who participated in Minority-Majority faired MUCH worse. I saw shop class taken out of my school, along with home economics and other programs and clubs that TAUGHT SKILL. We stopped receiving the tidbits of knowledge and history about our people and even our own neighborhood! We went from a solid school body that represented well in local scholastic competitions, like Scholar's Bowl, to a rough and rugged Junior High School that gained a horrible reputation in a little less than two years. I saw this happen! None of these characteristics were true during my 7th grade year. So I thought what happened!? (yes, back then I thought like this) It wasn't until I noticed one of the new teachers disciplining one of the known "troublemakers" that it hit me. Communication. Not that the teacher simply didn't know what he was saying, and he didn't know what she was saying. But they didn't understand what each other were saying. They couldn't peer into each other's perspective. What happened was, you took a white teacher from a very different background and culture and you put her in a new and unfamiliar culture to not only socialize with, but also teach a child within that culture. The same happened with my friends whose parents opted to send them AWAY from their community to be educated, only they had teachers AND students who they didn’t identify with on any level to socialize with. Again, let’s TRY and keep “race” out. It hasn’t a real place.
What has happened in Black America is that we've constantly sold away our own culture and community for this dream of acceptance and equality. And I do mean dream because there is no real definition for "acceptance and equality" in the context of this country today. Meaning, you are free and equal according to YOUR deeds and principles. We know the problems, we know what caused and causes them. The troubled kid mentioned earlier may very well have been helped by a teacher who lived in, or even understood who he was and his culture. And I know this to be true because this particular student’s parents and situation was known by the former teachers and was getting an education until M&M was instituted. What's happening in BLACK America has VERY LITTLE to do with race, itself (however, there are institutions and systems in place that play a big part that I won’t touch on here as I feel this is specific to the two points mentioned above). But it has everything to do with culture and this idea that we need a sweeping savior. And it's two sided. Today's generation of Whites is just as removed from the Civil Rights era, if not MORE. It's not their responsibility or duty to make amends in my opinion. They should carry on their forefathers’ legacies. It's MY responsibility as a father (I have three sons) and member of my community to make sure I raise productive young men, to make sure that I overlook my affairs, lead and create legacy for my generations to come. And to do that I feel history including and beyond American Civil Rights is key. I believe being FREE and ACCEPTED amongst Blacks FIRST is key. And for this to happen we must take a serious look in our communities. Like my mom did for me, I do for my sons. Remember, your average Black in America knows very little about his or her history beyond what is taught in the school systems, and our annual Black History Month (which in my opinion is due an overhaul). As a educator I'm sure you would agree that knowledge unlocks doors and frees the mind. But gaining of knowledge starts at home, not in the classroom. And that is the disadvantage that the White teacher AND the urban (Black) youth BOTH have.
Now about crying race. I cringe when I hear "racist". Or when I hear "…because he/she/I was/am Black". And I like you worry about what would happen if there is a REAL racist attack on people of color. How would anyone know if the complaint is authentic? I won't go into my rant on the so-called leaders of the Black Community. But I am often perplexed at the amount of racist charges from a group that seems hell-bent on imitating and being accepted into the so-called "racist" community. Let me explain: several years ago Jesse Jackson’s Rainbow coalition filed suite against NASCAR stating there should be more African American Drivers. He also called NASCAR a "Bastion of White Supremacy". Is racing such a social past time in African American communities? If so, why was there no plan or push to create a racing league for those parties interested? And no, it shouldn't have been a push for a "Black NASCAR". After all most national pass times grew from communities to include all. But, NASCAR, a national pass time that grew out of prohibition is now racists. What did I miss? I often asked, who were the multitudes of black drivers being rejected? I haven't fully researched that so I digress. But we see this on and on. Another example: Halle Berry and the Academy Award. I often asked, why wasn't her Essence Award "good enough"? Again I digress. My point is, Blacks have to value Blacks before we see a change in our condition. The laws are what they are. The history is what it is. In the meantime, we have sufficient capital and sufficient education and/or access to education to completely turn this situation around. But it has to happen from within.
I apologize for such a long "comment". Oh, I am a graduate of The University of Alabama. I know first hand the legacy of the famous speech.
Awesome post... Thank you.
^ +1 !
I find it troubling when we blame youth for their lack of understanding. You haven't described anything that is uncommon to most schools in America. You may not realize it but it's not just black males that are on their phones when they know it's against the rules. It's not just black females that are dressing provocatively when they go to school. And, though, a white kid may not say "you're being racist" in response to getting in trouble for bad behavior they may say other statements that are equally absurd (if I'm to follow your logic).
I don't know why I'm bothered by proclamations that call upon the black community to do or be or think "x, y or z." I suppose I think it's belittling to people, as individuals.
And, I think its created bureaucratic machine(s) that use the black community as America's guinea pig.
And, I think it allows for excuse making for the parts of our society that have failed people mostly coming from black communities.
Ultimately, though, you are saying there is something wrong with black people and until that thing is fixed in the entirety of the black community the next steps towards success will never be realized. Right, am I reading your words correctly? Then you relate this problem to schools but I'm not too sure if your ultimate point is "don't cry wolf about racism."
Either way, you just gave our education system a HUGE pass...for a few generations. If the problem is, as you say, that black parents are teaching their black kids "to disrespect authority..." then how long will it take to fix that problem before those kids can get an education? 5 years? 10 years? 20 years? 30 years? While you're fixing that problem how many millions of black students will receive a substandard education because well, they like to play on their cell phones.
No, I don't buy it. Our school system has a responsibility to educate given the variables at hand. Students are in class rooms for 8 hours a day from the time they are 4 or 5 years old. My God, if we can't educate kids when we have them for that long there's something wrong with us (universally) not with those kids and not with the black community.
So, instead of calling upon 40 million black americans to respect authority(?) or have them wait for an American Mandela let's just fix our schools so our kids are leaving the system brilliant, regardless of the things "wrong with them."
By the way who is "the hand that feeds you?"
Quote from: TheCat on February 07, 2013, 12:02:23 PM
I find it troubling when we blame youth for their lack of understanding. You haven't described anything that is uncommon to most schools in America. You may not realize it but it's not just black males that are on their phones when they know it's against the rules. It's not just black females that are dressing provocatively when they go to school. And, though, a white kid may not say "you're being racist" in response to getting in trouble for bad behavior they may say other statements that are equally absurd (if I'm to follow your logic).
I don't know why I'm bothered by proclamations that call upon the black community to do or be or think "x, y or z." I suppose I think it's belittling to people, as individuals.
And, I think its created bureaucratic machine(s) that use the black community as America's guinea pig.
And, I think it allows for excuse making for the parts of our society that have failed people mostly coming from black communities.
Ultimately, though, you are saying there is something wrong with black people and until that thing is fixed in the entirety of the black community the next steps towards success will never be realized. Right, am I reading your words correctly? Then you relate this problem to schools but I'm not too sure if your ultimate point is "don't cry wolf about racism."
Either way, you just gave our education system a HUGE pass...for a few generations. If the problem is, as you say, that black parents are teaching their black kids "to disrespect authority..." then how long will it take to fix that problem before those kids can get an education? 5 years? 10 years? 20 years? 30 years? While you're fixing that problem how many millions of black students will receive a substandard education because well, they like to play on their cell phones.
No, I don't buy it. Our school system has a responsibility to educate given the variables at hand. Students are in class rooms for 8 hours a day from the time they are 4 or 5 years old. My God, if we can't educate kids when we have them for that long there's something wrong with us (universally) not with those kids and not with the black community.
So, instead of calling upon 40 million black americans to respect authority(?) or have them wait for an American Mandela let's just fix our schools so our kids are leaving the system brilliant, regardless of the things "wrong with them."
By the way who is "the hand that feeds you?"
Lets go along with your line of reasoning that a white student has the same flimsy excuses for not following the rules, albeit not using the race card. The difference, in my opinion, is that the white students do not have the luxury of using the race card to attempt to get out of following the rules.
Could you imagine a female being able to say 'that's sexist' if a supervisor asked her to do the same work that a man would do? The problem with the race card in the classroom is that it allows students of color to play the same games that have made race hustlers rich but have made us more suspicious of each other.
We know that the flimsy excuses can be shot down by the teacher. But to call the teacher a racist is intended to make the teacher submit to blatant bullying on the part of the student and the student's parents who choose to play along.
We either trust our teachers to do the right thing or we replace them with someone who can. We cannot allow a few race baiters and hustlers to slander our teachers who are indeed trying to teach them. That, in my opinion, is biting the hand the feeds when a student is supposed to be helped by his teachers but instead works his darndest to thwart their work.
Here is one more piece of food for thought. Racial tolerance is a TWO-WAY streeet. If a white student defied a teacher who happened to be of another race, there would rightfully be an outcry. If a white student's parents told him to defy an African-American teacher, that family might be run out of town on a rail. I do not understand anyone who would try to rationalize racisim in any form, even if it is coming from those who were the oppressed in the past...
Since moving to Jacksonville, I've always found it odd how the city doesn't widely celebrate its past or preserve its history like so many other cities do. A professor over at UNF proposed a really interesting explanation in that he believes that Jacksonville's history is so racially ugly that most would rather sweep it under the rug and ignore it (even at the time it was happening) than accept and embrace it (for good and for bad). He posited that Jacksonville is a sick city, and that unless we collectively come to terms with our past, Jacksonville can never truly take that next step as a city. There are obviously many other factors that have prevented Jacksonville from reaching its full potential, but it was really an interesting take on why the city seems so eager to turn its back on its history at times.
Quote from: KenFSU on February 07, 2013, 04:51:27 PM
Since moving to Jacksonville, I've always found it odd how the city doesn't widely celebrate its past or preserve its history like so many other cities do. A professor over at UNF proposed a really interesting explanation in that he believes that Jacksonville's history is so racially ugly that most would rather sweep it under the rug and ignore it (even at the time it was happening) than accept and embrace it (for good and for bad). He posited that Jacksonville is a sick city, and that unless we collectively come to terms with our past, Jacksonville can never truly take that next step as a city. There are obviously many other factors that have prevented Jacksonville from reaching its full potential, but it was really an interesting take on why the city seems so eager to turn its back on its history at times.
+1
Our history has never even been WRITTEN much less "come to terms with". This town has a fascinating and rich history and only bits and pieces of it have been written. Some of the early "histories" are little more than glossy fiction.
People like Dan Shafer have done a brilliant job of researching and writing parts of it, but there are big gaps that haven't been studied by academics. His books are very readable too. Just finished his "Lost Plantations of the St. John's River." His are the definitive works on Kingsley and Anna Jai.
A lot of documentation was lost in the 1901 fire which makes it tough. Parts have had to be filled in from records in St. Augustine and Fernandina.
The real crux of this essay is that today's youth do not know what real racism looks like. My mother attended school in South Carolina in the 1960s where she experienced hostility from her peers and from teachers simply because she was born black. Today's children who cry 'racism' in the classroom over petty and trivial matters are insulting my mother's generation who actually dealt with real hate from real racists. It is silly and foolish to fault today's white teachers or teachers of any race for somehow not having the communication skills to reach minority students. There may be real racists who are still in the classroom, but we will never know who they are because of the broad brush that ALL teachers are being painted with by the race baiters and race hustlers in our community.
Quote from: KenFSU on February 07, 2013, 04:51:27 PM
Since moving to Jacksonville, I've always found it odd how the city doesn't widely celebrate its past or preserve its history like so many other cities do. A professor over at UNF proposed a really interesting explanation in that he believes that Jacksonville's history is so racially ugly that most would rather sweep it under the rug and ignore it (even at the time it was happening) than accept and embrace it (for good and for bad). He posited that Jacksonville is a sick city, and that unless we collectively come to terms with our past, Jacksonville can never truly take that next step as a city. There are obviously many other factors that have prevented Jacksonville from reaching its full potential, but it was really an interesting take on why the city seems so eager to turn its back on its history at times.
Not many cities have an uglier racial history than Birmingham, and I've found that it quite forthrightly addresses that history head-on in its many museums. A good model for facing up to the past, I think.
Quote from: KenFSU on February 07, 2013, 04:51:27 PM
Since moving to Jacksonville, I've always found it odd how the city doesn't widely celebrate its past or preserve its history like so many other cities do. A professor over at UNF proposed a really interesting explanation in that he believes that Jacksonville's history is so racially ugly that most would rather sweep it under the rug and ignore it (even at the time it was happening) than accept and embrace it (for good and for bad). He posited that Jacksonville is a sick city, and that unless we collectively come to terms with our past, Jacksonville can never truly take that next step as a city. There are obviously many other factors that have prevented Jacksonville from reaching its full potential, but it was really an interesting take on why the city seems so eager to turn its back on its history at times.
God, what professor said that? That's the bombastic egghead version of events, to say the least.
@Jaxon, your last post implies that you know it to be true that your students' parents rationalize racism? When in fact, the same can be said of White students, Asians or etc. At any rate, I'm sure I did understand the intent of your editorial now.
"It is silly and foolish to fault today's white teachers or teachers of any race for somehow not having the communication skills to reach minority students."
Again, I believe today's attempts to thwart "racism" is futile at best because I don't think we understand it, nor do I think there is a true effort to understand what's going on in the classroom. That statement alone, in my opinion, proves that. I'm no teacher, so I may be out of line, but I have been a student, have children that are students, am in school (again) myself and have SEVERAL friends who are teachers in Duval and Clay counties. It seems that you've used this forum to defend White teachers by examining their plight, however I don't see the same examination on behalf of the students other than the generalization that they are socialized into disrespect. Communication IS key to reaching ANY student, not just Blacks, or are we now speaking of minorities in general? There is no blame being placed in my opinion, just something that is overlooked in this attempt to mask differences that absolutely exist between that various racial cultures.
It's much deeper than what appears on the surface and it's very unfair and dangerous to make blanket statements . I grew up on Alabama (Montgomery to be exact), went to school in Tuscaloosa and spent countless days in Birmingham. My mother marched with King and company and even shares the photos and first hand experiences with me and my children til this day. That's my reasoning for my firm belief that we are picking at "limbs instead of cutting at the root". And that root isn't unfair blame to White teachers or Black parents teaching their children to be racists. At the risk of sounding judgmental, please believe that is not the case, I admire ANY teacher who makes the commitment to educate the youth, but I would like to ask of your personal experiences here, and specifically how you deal with this socialized-racists-disrespectful Black student. Being a person of color in the education system (I'm assuming here in Duval) surely you would have unique experiences. Also, what actions do you believe would correct this situation (over time of course)?
Again, my question is sincere. It's easy for me on the outside to spew idealogical rhetoric (that I actually believe) but I really am interested to know what experiences you've had to help bring forth this post.
Jaxson, you're setting up a straw man and I'm not prepared to argue for/against whether black kids use the word "racist" too freely. When that happens I'm sure it is discouraging and hurtful to a white teacher that is trying to teach.
I think what I wrote previously should be repeated:
QuoteEither way, you just gave our education system a HUGE pass...for a few generations. If the problem is, as you say, that black parents are teaching their black kids "to disrespect authority..." then how long will it take to fix that problem before those kids can get an education? 5 years? 10 years? 20 years? 30 years? While you're fixing that problem how many millions of black students will receive a substandard education because well, they like to play on their cell phones.
No, I don't buy it. Our school system has a responsibility to educate given the variables at hand. Students are in class rooms for 8 hours a day from the time they are 4 or 5 years old. My God, if we can't educate kids when we have them for that long there's something wrong with us (universally) not with those kids and not with the black community.
So, instead of calling upon 40 million black americans to respect authority(?) or have them wait for an American Mandela let's just fix our schools so our kids are leaving the system brilliant, regardless of the things "wrong with them."
And, I'm going to give my self a +1.
All you're really saying is "kid's today!" your sentiment is not unique to you, your generation or your race. Our schools have a responsibility to teach regardless of the variables they face. If a white teacher will be labeled "racist" let's prepare that teacher with a proper response and keep educating. Blaming black kids for making ignorant statements as the cause of a failed school system is the height of ignorance.
It's the schools. Stop blaming the kids. Get the system right and everything else will fall into place.
I agree with nearly everything that Jaxson said, most younstas don't have a clue when it comes to racism, as it's something popular to unprovokingly cry out. The popular PC thing to say is that nothing has changed racially here in 2013, as blacks are supposedly still being treated the same like in the 60's; Liberals love that kinda stuff for whatever reason. Racism is a two way street; I'm so sick of it always being portrayed exclusively as a 'white against black' thing, and never the other way around. Me from a young black kid's perspective growing up in NY in the 80's where people are used to all races, then coming here in the South in 86' was like a racial culture shock, with schools first desegregating, hearing the word 'cracker' alot etc. At nine, I didn't even know what racism was. I remember when I went to the Westside Skills Center (now Franklin Peterson) on Wilson Blvd, were white kids were commonly assaulted by blacks for no reason other than their skin color; Many were jumped on a day that they called "Cracker Fridays". That surely wasn't racially motivated though, because it wasn't the standard white against black situation....
Quote from: TheCat on February 07, 2013, 10:25:45 PM
Jaxson, you're setting up a straw man and I'm not prepared to argue for/against whether black kids use the word "racist" too freely. When that happens I'm sure it is discouraging and hurtful to a white teacher that is trying to teach.
I think what I wrote previously should be repeated:
QuoteEither way, you just gave our education system a HUGE pass...for a few generations. If the problem is, as you say, that black parents are teaching their black kids "to disrespect authority..." then how long will it take to fix that problem before those kids can get an education? 5 years? 10 years? 20 years? 30 years? While you're fixing that problem how many millions of black students will receive a substandard education because well, they like to play on their cell phones.
No, I don't buy it. Our school system has a responsibility to educate given the variables at hand. Students are in class rooms for 8 hours a day from the time they are 4 or 5 years old. My God, if we can't educate kids when we have them for that long there's something wrong with us (universally) not with those kids and not with the black community.
So, instead of calling upon 40 million black americans to respect authority(?) or have them wait for an American Mandela let's just fix our schools so our kids are leaving the system brilliant, regardless of the things "wrong with them."
And, I'm going to give my self a +1.
All you're really saying is "kid's today!" your sentiment is not unique to you, your generation or your race. Our schools have a responsibility to teach regardless of the variables they face. If a white teacher will be labeled "racist" let's prepare that teacher with a proper response and keep educating. Blaming black kids for making ignorant statements as the cause of a failed school system is the height of ignorance.
It's the schools. Stop blaming the kids. Get the system right and everything else will fall into place.
You obviously do not know me so I would appreciate if you did not accuse me of making things up. There is no straw man in my argument as I know white teachers today who are accused of being racist. Case in point: I have a colleague from another school who is from Vermont. He attended integrated schools in Vermont. He had a roommate of color in college. He played travel baseball with a range of races including Latino, Asian and black. He was enforcing the ID policy at our school. A student refused to explain why he did not have his ID on his person. The teacher friend of mine asked the student to go to the office. The student immediately whipped out the race card saying that the teacher only chose to enforce the ID policy because he hated black people. Okay, I have a solution (Begin sarcasm) Let's keep all white teachers from enforcing the code of conduct in schools because they apparently lack the skills to communicate with students of color. (End sarcasm). What outrages me the most is that another poster would claim that I am making stuff up to bolster my argument. I have a former colleague who happened to be a white female who was assaulted by a black student who did not want to obey her request to follow the school rules. She ended up being bruised to the point that I recorded pictures of this imaginary straw man incident. I wish that these examples were made up. And I ask that any white teacher who was accused of racism speak up to prove that I am not just sitting in my ivory tower making up crap for the sake of making a point. Straw man, my posterior! I have been in the classroom long enough to know what I am talking about and would like it immensely for other posters to discuss the topic without trying to impugn me or my credibility for the sake of making a point. Sad...
Furthermore, I refuse to be trolled by someone who just got me whipped up for what possibly may be entertainment purposes. I came very close to naming names of the white teachers, but opted not to because I know the truth in spite of people who try to tear me or my opinion down because they are in denial about black-on-white racism. It exists in spite of the deniers.
And the ridiculing of the American Mandela shows the lack of regard for the real need for racial reconciliation in this nation. If we think that we have no more racial baggage, then the American Mandela comment was stupider than New Coke. If the notion that we still have unfinished business with racial healing, perhaps it might be time for us to learn how to forgive. What is wrong with a little forgiveness between the races? Someone years ago mentioned charity toward all and malice toward none... Sheesh...
How are you defending an American Mandela. He/She does not exist. I may have misused the word "straw man" in my previous post but what you just said about the American Mandela (which I find to be comical in so many ways. It just sounds like a comedy sure to be released by Sacha Baron Cohen) does set up a straw man.
FYI, straw man does not mean you are making stuff up. If I say let's not wait around for a person, the american Mandela, to fix our problems and you say "...the ridiculing of the American Mandela shows the lack of regard for the real need for racial reconciliation in this nation" that is setting up a straw man. Then again, i could be wrong. It may not be a straw man it could just be an absurd thing to say.
In so many words you are saying that black kids can not be educated because culturally they are being taught to disrespect authority, "the hand that feeds them." Whether you meant to or not "the hand that feeds them" seems to imply the white hand. So, if white teachers are being attacked and abused what about black teachers? Are they being called racist? My point, stop blaming the kids and start looking at the adults (not teachers, necessarily) but the systems that are tasked with one thing, teach children. Again, we have these kids from the age of 4 or 5 for the greater part of the day. Why can't they be taught? Are black kids less inclined to learn? Are they less curious as kids? Or, do we have an educational system that "bludgeons" the love of learning inherent to all humans right out of them.
Your line of logic has been used for centuries by the "hands that feed". Saying that black people cannot do, be, think "x, y or z" because inherently or culturally they are flawed is not a new sentiment. Every culture and person is flawed. Notice, that we don't stop teaching white males or assuming the best for them even when they are more likely to shoot up schools or go on serial killing sprees.
This has nothing to do with what black kids do or say. It has nothing to do with whether or not "reverse" racism exist. It has everything to do with a failing/failed educational system. There are plenty of examples of predominately black schools that have attained incredible educational institutions because the system changed.
I'd still like you to address this...
QuoteEither way, you just gave our education system a HUGE pass...for a few generations. If the problem is, as you say, that black parents are teaching their black kids "to disrespect authority..." then how long will it take to fix that problem before those kids can get an education? 5 years? 10 years? 20 years? 30 years? While you're fixing that problem how many millions of black students will receive a substandard education because well, they like to play on their cell phones.
I-10 East and Jaxson:
I trust both of your experiences to be real. In those cases when assaults and false accusations are happening they should be dealt with...not dealing with those kinds of problems is exactly what perpetuates those kinds of problems. It is the responsibility of our schools to correct those issues so they, the schools, can fulfill their mission, to teach.
Jaxson,
New Coke was actually a huge success. Supposedly, not the way that Coke was planning but it ended up substantially invigorating sales and the brand. So, your analogy fails... "stupider" is not a word.
That's called trolling. 8).
Addressing your comments and engaging you in conversation with another perspective is not trolling.
Quote from: TheCat on February 08, 2013, 03:28:13 PM
Jaxson,
New Coke was actually a huge success. Supposedly, not the way that Coke was planning but it ended up substantially invigorating sales and the brand. So, your analogy fails... "stupider" is not a word.
That's called trolling. 8).
Addressing your comments and engaging you in conversation with another perspective is not trolling.
LOL at your alleged perspective for the following reasons. Your perspective fails to take into account:
1. Not all whites are biogts who deserve to be abused by students of color. And when I brought up real world examples or white teachers who were abused by students of color, I think that we finally found something that we both agreed on - it is insanity to expect white teachers to take the blame for past generations' sins. Like I already said before, real racism in the classroom and in our world ends up getting ignored when we continue to treat white teachers like they are to blame.
2. The Nelson Mandela argument that I made simply refers to the fact that the civil rights movement in our nation indeed has issues that continue to be unresolved in comparison to that in South Africa after Apartheid. When Apartheid ended in South Africa, there was a national effort to reconcile. Compared to that, our nation's struggles after Reconstruction (1865-1877) indeed left us with unfinished business and many needless killings. Mandela urged his countrymen to forgive and move on. I do not care how my opinion is twisted by someone whose main goal is to make me sound like someone that I am not. The 'American' Mandela was simply a rhetorical question about the possibility of our nation having someone who could have helped us build bridges between the races. After Martin Luther King's assassination, we were at a loss to find someone with the same stature who could unify Americans regardless of race. That is why I believe you are trolling - you claim that I believe that some imaginary Nelson Mandela lives in the United States. Balderdash! Read between the lines and understand that there is nothing weird or psycho about looking for someone who can be a peacemaker instead of pulling the same race baiting and race hustling that passes for dialogue today.
I read your previous post this afternoon and think that we agree on many other points but are using different language. My main point is that the civil rights movement should involve protecting our young black men from being shot at while they are minding their own business at the gas station, should involve allowing young black men to walk through a neighborhood without being harassed or killed by an over-zealous neighborhood watchman, should involve young blacks being able to vote without waiting in line for hours at at time. These are the real fights in our modern world, not sticking up for students who think that educators of all races are the enemy. The hand that feeds these students is not necessarily while, either. I am a black teacher who often has to argue with students of all backgrounds about the importance of education. Why do I single out black students? Because I had no more than three black teachers between kindergarten and graduation. I believe that Duval County Public Schools have progressed to the point that teachers are taking diversity training, teachers of color are being recruited, and taxpayers are paying for a more equitable distribution of resources and programs. This is the hand that feeds our children of all colors. It is feeding them a knowledge that many continue to reject to their own peril.
The REAL enemy in our society - the white police officers in Detroit who racially profiled my aunt for driving in the wrong neighborhood and they actually referred to her as a NOMAD (N----r on Mack [Ave] After Dark). She was brave and reported this racism to the police department and got an apology.
The FALSE enemy in our society - the white teacher who asks a black student to show their ID because they were late for class and roaming the halls. The black student responds by shoving the white teacher, leaving bruises on her arms. I remember this because, as her union representative, I photographed the bruises and showed them to the proper authorities. No student of any race is justified in assaulting a teacher because they are trying to 'fight the power.' Teachers are people, too.
Jaxson, before you are misunderstood again, I think what you are really trying to say is that REAL racism, the victimization of an individual based solely on race or skin color, is the real enemy. NOT the PERCIEVED racism that you have described with these students who use the claim to justify breaking the rules. Police Officers are not your enemy.. :).
I recently had to go into a Duval high school and I have to tell you that the language and manner that students addressed the staff was not acceptable to me. On the street, adults can walk away from these kids, but school staff are charged with the care and education of the students and they deserve and should be able to expect a certain level of respect. I don't claim any expertise in education or teaching, but there was no learning possible in some of the classroom situations that I observed. It appears that the system is unable or unwilling to enforce a level of civility in the schools. While this is surely attributable to a number of factors, your narrative is certainly a part of that.
I agree that almost every kid is reachable AND teachable, but the teacher must have the ability to control the classroom environment. If they don't, then the kids control it and the result is obvious.
NotNow, you took the words right out of my mouth and you expressed what I meant to say even better than I ever could. Thank you!
+100