Metro Jacksonville

Community => News => Topic started by: Steve on March 05, 2008, 10:16:50 AM

Title: JIA Concourse A almost done?
Post by: Steve on March 05, 2008, 10:16:50 AM
From today's Daily Record

Speaking of the Aviation Authority, it will officially open the renovated Concourse A at Jacksonville International Airport during a May 9 ceremony at 10:30 a.m.
Title: Re: JIA Concourse A almost done?
Post by: DetroitInJAX on March 05, 2008, 10:32:07 AM
I work over in Concourse C and noticed yesterday on my walkabout of the airport that the jetways (passenger boarding bridges) have been put in the north/northwest side of the new Concourse A.  The immediate airlines to move will be Delta and Northwest.  The building itself is nearing completion, but the ramp areas on the south side of the concourse are not, and will not, be completed until the old Concourse A is vacated, demolished, and a new slab is poured (which takes several months to cure). Expected full move in on Concourse A should be sometime in the Fall, when AirTran and Continental join Delta and Northwest.  I also noticed that the lighting system inside the concourse has finally been turned on.

The entire project is not expected to be completed until 2009, when Concourse C is finished.  There is also a renovation of the existing Concourse B scheduled, to bring it up to the new standard the airport has set with the new concourses.

So far, the alignment of airlines looks like this:

Concourse A:
Delta
Northwest
Frontier (before they decided to go Seasonal, so this is all up in the air)
AirTran
Continental/Continental Connection (Gulfstream)

Concourse B:
JetBlue
ExpressJet (depends on how long they'll last)
United

Concourse C: 
US Airways
Southwest
American

There will be several JAA owned "open" gates in the concourses.
Title: Re: JIA Concourse A almost done?
Post by: Jason on March 05, 2008, 10:37:41 AM
How would you compare the recent renovations and expansions to other airports?  Is JIA making a good move by building something for the future or is it a lackluster attempt at modernization?
Title: Re: JIA Concourse A almost done?
Post by: Ocklawaha on March 05, 2008, 11:37:02 AM
Another Dud... Yes the airport is pretty inside, yes, it's clean, but service and size is a joke. Until we get aggressive and go after hub status with some medium up and coming carrier, we will never again be Florida's Gateway City.  

Ocklawaha
Title: Re: JIA Concourse A almost done?
Post by: reednavy on March 05, 2008, 01:26:46 PM
The city is trying, thats all I gotta say, just try harder damn it! Now, my hometown of Nashville is currently undertaking a multi-year COMPLETE terminal renovation. Concourse C is currently being worked on, and then on to a centralized security area, then Concourse B, then Concourse A. Currently, our "hub" is Southwest, and is listed as a focus city. It is the major connecting airport for SWA in the South since Delta and AirTran have a choke-hold on the pitiful Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta Int'l. You all should visit the website and it has a link, and takes you to the renovations page. We are adding many local restaurants and cafes, such as O'Charley's(based there), Bongo Java, Noshville, and a Tootsie's to name a few. Check it out for yourself. This is the kind of airport that JAX needs to model after. KBNA is alos planning a 11,500 to 13,000 foot long runway and an international flights only terminal on the east side of the property. Lastly, KJAX needs a MUCH BETTER web page, it sucks, and has a jacked up address. The renovations link is under the Butterfly with "POSITIVELY TRANSFORMED" as the renovations logo.

Nashville International Airport

http://www.flynashville.com/
http://www.nashintl.com/
Title: Re: JIA Concourse A almost done?
Post by: DetroitInJAX on March 06, 2008, 02:18:56 AM
You have to remember though, Nashville was once a hub for American Airlines, and has the existing infrastructure to prove it.  Also, theres a reason its NOT a hub anymore (Origination traffic wasnt there)..

Also, JIA is in the shadow of some very very large airports aka Orlando and Atlanta... The amount of service Jacksonville gets is on par with other cities of the same size, and we do have the disadvantage of being located so close to Orlando (when it comes to tourist traffic) and Atlanta (when it comes to hub development).

You think an airline is just going to plant a hub here?  Hubs are about connecting traffic, sure, but theyre also about O&D traffic, and Jacksonville just cant generate that much O&D.  Look at what happened in Pittsburgh.  US Airways totally ripped down the hub, once their largest...  Why?  Less O&D than Charlotte and Philadelphia.

I mean honestly, who comes here??  Besides business people and some cruise traffic, or visiting Aunt Pearl in Callahan, who comes here?

How does the JIA project compare with others?  Well, the net gain on gates isnt huge, but then again before the project started they couldnt fill what they had in the first place.  I think the airport made a good decision when it comes to not going off the deep end and constructing some behemoth of an airport without the traffic numbers to back it up.  Airports are not Field of Dreams.  If you build it, they most certainly will NOT come.

Itll be nice, Itll be new, and it'll be right-sized for our city for years to come, I think.
Title: Re: JIA Concourse A almost done?
Post by: Ocklawaha on March 06, 2008, 09:31:30 AM
(http://www.century-of-flight.freeola.com/Aviation%20history/coming%20of%20age/usairlines/images/national.JPG)

Hubs, don't have to have Origination and Destination traffic. Piedmonts Dayton, Charlotte and Winston Salem hubs proved that. National Airlines, one of the most profitable in history was HQ and Hubed in Jacksonville. Even when the HQ left, the system remained a giant "T" laying on it's right site. The bottom of the "T" was Los Angeles, The top New York, the bottom Miami, Tampa, etc... The crossing point? Jacksonville. They were bought out and destroyed not for their excellence, service or $$ making ability, but because the needy giants aircraft were falling apart and they used junk bonds to buy National.

(http://www.plaza.ch/stones/Pictures/Brochures/AirFloridaTicketholder.jpg)
Lost this one to an accident in DCA

Same with railroads, Jacksonville, was not always the major Origination and Destination station in Florida for passengers. It sure was for trains though.

It's fairly simple, draw lines on a map connecting all of the major O and D stops, and see where the lines cross, If we could convince some large regional that crossing them in Jax, would open all of Florida to fast frequent connecting flights without the crowds and troubles, we'd be in the game. Incentives and salesmanship is what it's about. Did you know we are almost (within a mile or two) of half way between Atlanta and Miami? Imagine that as a clock with Jax at the center. Now spin the hands around... about 1/2 way from Charlotte and Tampa? Sarasota? Ft. Myers? How about Norfolk and ?, or Nashville and ?, This is how it works.

(http://www.piedmontva.net/pilotrosterimage.jpg)
Piedmont had plans for a hub, we became a crew base, they built a giant hanger, introduced the commuter jet service then got eaten and our plans were flushed with US AIR... (everybodys favorite)

BTW, I started in the airline industry right here at Jax. We can do it. We could have done it years ago. JUST DO IT!  


Ocklawaha
Title: Re: JIA Concourse A almost done?
Post by: thelakelander on March 06, 2008, 09:43:29 AM
Here's National's route map around the time it was headquartered in Jax.

(http://www.airtimes.com/cgat/usb/national/detail/mapna580107.jpg)
Title: Re: JIA Concourse A almost done?
Post by: Steve on March 06, 2008, 09:50:36 AM
I think it could happen one day, but it would be unlikely.  We might be a "Focus City" for an airline, but I don't see a full blown hub - actually the new design of JIA's councourses lends itself to furhter expansion.  It's built very similar to Atlanta's, but the councorses look a lot better.

Personally, in this day and age, I don't know how many airlines you will see starting up or moving a hub (unless it's to another existing hub because of a merger).
Title: Re: JIA Concourse A almost done?
Post by: Steve on March 06, 2008, 09:51:33 AM
I think it is interesting that even though the airline was based in Jacksonville, it looks like their hub was Miami.
Title: Re: JIA Concourse A almost done?
Post by: thelakelander on March 06, 2008, 11:37:13 AM
Their hub was in Jacksonville for a short period of time.  They started off in St. Petersburg, moved up to Jax, briefly and then relocated to Miami.

Imo, Jax would have a better chance becoming an air freight hub (like Memphis or Louisville) then growing to become a passenger hub like Atlanta.  We missed that boat when National left to head down to Miami.
Title: Re: JIA Concourse A almost done?
Post by: Jason on March 06, 2008, 01:53:23 PM
Great point Lake.  Jacksonville's location is absolutely perfect for that type of growth.  Hopefully the seaport expansions will help to further the interests in air based freight traffic.
Title: Re: JIA Concourse A almost done?
Post by: reednavy on March 06, 2008, 02:04:01 PM
Not trying to raise up my hometown or anything, but we have China Cargo 747's come and go from Nashville Int'l. If Jax extends a runway, then it can happen. Plenty of room to grow out there. Like I said months ago, switch Cecil and JAX operations around and it'd fit better.
Title: Re: JIA Concourse A almost done?
Post by: Steve on March 06, 2008, 02:11:32 PM
Isn't 10,000 feet long enough for a 747?
Title: Re: JIA Concourse A almost done?
Post by: DetroitInJAX on March 06, 2008, 02:31:15 PM
You folks are talking about National... That was 40 years ago.  The industry isnt the same.  In the eyes of the airlines, Jacksonville is a spoke city.  Not a hub.  We get service TO THE HUBS, but we're not going to become one.  Its just not going to happen.

Ock, I admire your "can-do" attitude, but it WONT happen, no matter how much salesmanship we use.  I spoke to the station manager of ExpressJet when they started service and he envisioned Jacksonville becoming one of ExpressJet's focus cities or hubs.  Down the road now, ExpressJet is hemmoraging cash (besides their Continental Express flying), Jacksonville service to Raleigh has been lost (American ran them out), and other frequencies have been cut back (like its now once a day to Kansas City).  Theyre effectively smaller than what they started with.

All you have to do is look at history.

National had large ops here, and ended up hubbing at Miami.

Piedmont/US Air built a hangar, made this city an integral part of "The Florida Shuttle", with Dash 8's going to places like Tallahassee, Orlando, West Palm, Tampa, Melbourne, etc.....   Piedmont/US Air at a time operated pretty much the entirety of Concourse B, except for one gate that was used by Air Canada (which, also, no longer operates service here).  Now, US Air has 2 gates and serves their hubs/focus cities of Charlotte, Washington DC/Reagan, and Philadelphia.

United for many years only operated United Express flying here, going as far as contracting the entire station support services to Delta Global Services.  Only recently did they reintroduce mainline aircraft (Airbus A319s), but theyve already downgraded the service to 3x daily to Chicago/ORD with Boeing 737-300s (smaller airplanes).

I've also been told that British Airways (who operates their North American reservations center just off JTB), wanted to add a JAX stop to their nonstop Gatwick-to-Tampa flight.  Did it happen? no.  Why?  The airport was ill-equipped to handle intl. pax. (which is still the case, a German charter Airbus A330 came here and the airport took like 4 hours to process 200 and some odd people)  AND it was determined that the market could not support such flights.

Just because Jacksonville was a major transit point for trains does not mean its a great transit point for airplanes.  The rail lines were built when Jacksonville was the "be all end all" of Florida.  Now, we're in the shadow of our neighbors downstate.  Why fly from New York to Miami via Jacksonville when you can just fly direct New York to Miami?  Why fly from Miami to Los Angeles via Jacksonville when you can fly direct Miami to Los Angeles?  In the days of National it may have made sense to operate things this way, but now theres so much direct service from points north and west into Florida, airlines simply overfly Jacksonville.  Just because its located at the top of the peninsula doesnt mean everything has to be funneled in and out of the state through here.

Jacksonville, any way you slice it, is a regional airport.  We couldn't even support one daily flight to Los Angeles with Delta (they cut the route).  We also couldnt support a year round Denver service (Frontier is going seasonal).

In fact, the only airline that doesn't fly large amounts of passengers to their hubs is Southwest (from here), but thats because their model is not really hub and spoke.. Its more point-to-point.  Southwest builds a large presence at some airports, and a moderate presence at all others.. then proceeds to connect the dots (hence why Southwest flies to Indianapolis, Birmingham, Tampa, Fort Lauderdale, Norfolk, Philadelphia, soon-to-be Las Vegas, etc.. out of here..) They serve the most destinations nonstop from Jacksonville, actually.  Why?  They connect the dots.  Dont confuse this with the creation of a hub.

An Air Freight Hub makes more sense to me, being that Jacksonville IS one of the biggest logistically oriented cities in the south.
Title: Re: JIA Concourse A almost done?
Post by: Steve on March 06, 2008, 02:56:12 PM
I'd agree with what you have said.  Take Delta for example - it already has like 8 flights a day between JAX and ATL, which puts Jacksonville then 1 hours from anywhere in the world.

Withe that said, the German charter plane landing here was a little bit of an exception, since they had no notice for that one.  I'd have to think that if the airport was expecting the flight, they could have handled it much better.

Are they developing any sort of international facilities in their master plan?
Title: Re: JIA Concourse A almost done?
Post by: DetroitInJAX on March 09, 2008, 10:32:22 PM
Sorry for my long response time, have been busy.

as far as I know they are developing one gate in concourse C for the use of international flights.
Title: Re: JIA Concourse A almost done?
Post by: blizz01 on March 09, 2008, 10:53:23 PM
So then, what qualifies JAX as an "International Airport"?  Are there still directs to cities in Canada or the Carribbean?  What is the criteria?
Title: Re: JIA Concourse A almost done?
Post by: Ocklawaha on March 10, 2008, 12:20:40 AM
International Airport, has come to mean "GIANT BIG GO ANYWHERE PLACE" but such is not the case. There are dozens if not hundreds or thousands of "international airports" in tiny little dusty places like Douglas, AZ or Tombstone. It just means they have the facility to isolate, and clear a flight, passengers or freight for entry or exit from the USA. So yes, there are agents that cover several tiny airports and work out of little metal sheds, clearing 4 guys in a Cessna... Still an INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT... or "Port of Entry". Since we are a large international shipping center, US Customs has a large presence here. The failure to get on the ball with the German flight could be chocked up to "Your kidding right? a big plane wants to clear here?" These boys and girls need a swift kick.

As for Hub, we are not the only player in the World Air Game, and as up and coming lines like COPA out of Panama (and everywhere else in the America's) expand, we could attract that type of hub. We could also attract any airline that is sick of the fee's at the high rent airports such as Atlanta, Charlotte or Memphis.
I worked for PI when USAir ate our system, I know what the plans were and it still makes me and the other Piedmoniters Ill! I'd walk before I'd fly USAir. The fuel future may dictate the airlines go back to a point to point type route system and not overfly any major markets. Stopovers may become more common. Planes will go in two distinct directions, super huge for your NEW YORK, CHICAGO, TOKYO, BOGOTA type flights, and just large enough to get off with a full load everywhere else.

Where I feel we could now sell the hub or point to point concept is simple, Don't overfly Florida's largest City to get to Florida's metropolitan airports... Land it here, and send out the Fokkers, Dashes and 37's from here to all of the Sunshine destinations. So rather then fly a 1/2 full 777 from NY to Miami, another NY to Tampa, another NY to Orlando, and a 737 from NY to Daytona, and NY to Ft. Myers...

WHAT IF...

We fly one 777 TWICE daily to and from JAX, across the concourse into the smaller jets and right on to the Sunshine States playgounds. It's no longer about what the passenger wants, it's now a balance of staying in the air $$$ and service to the market. In that respect, the old railroads had it right.

WE CALL IT...

JAX!


Ocklawaha
Title: Re: JIA Concourse A almost done?
Post by: Steve on March 10, 2008, 02:14:31 AM
Quote from: blizz01 on March 09, 2008, 10:53:23 PM
So then, what qualifies JAX as an "International Airport"?  Are there still directs to cities in Canada or the Carribbean?  What is the criteria?

I believe it has to do with having customs/immigration facilities, not the scheduled flights.
Title: Re: JIA Concourse A almost done?
Post by: chipwich on March 10, 2008, 03:06:48 AM
All this talk of JIA becoming a hub is actually quite interesting.

I think people need to take into account that hubs are not always good for the local passengers. Hubs drive out other carriers, especially in small to medium size airports like Jacksonville's .  Thus, while we may have more passengers go through the airport and we will have more direct flights, we will pay significantly more for those flights.  People in Atlanta get screwed, yes I mean screwed by Delta everyday.  I know people in Atlanta who very very thankful that Airtran finally came around and expanded their operations there.  Keep in mind ATL doesn't even have Southwest. 

So do you think Southwest doesn't want be in Atlanta?  Of course they do, but if you were Delta or any other main hub carrier, you would fight tooth and nail to keep your competition out.

Jacksonville is blessed with an awesome airport.  Our airport is clean, not large, easy to get through.  You can't say that about most airports in the country (including mega-hubs and samller airports alike).  We are served by 11 different airlines. 

Truly, I know we all would like more direct flights.  They add convenience, better prices, and more prominence to a city.  Direct flights are great for attracting and keeping more business (travel and relocation) and tourists (both leisure and convention based).  As our city continues to grow, so too will originations and destination travelers.  That is what our airport is here to serve.  JIA will probably continue to add between 150-300,000 O&D passengers each year.  That will create new flights, more destinations, more frequencies, competition between carriers and hopefully more amenities.  We should however expect that many airlines will be overly optimistic and try routes that may not survive. It doesn't just happen here.  It happens everywhere.  In time however, the increase in passengers will bring about more flights.   
Title: Re: JIA Concourse A almost done?
Post by: blizz01 on March 10, 2008, 10:37:18 AM
I had no idea that carriers such as Southwest didn't service Atlanta; neither does JetBlue just digging deeper.  Those are the types of airlines that people seem to prefer, or, maybe because we are NOT a hub enjoy more from a convenience & monetary standpoint.  I suppose the inverse of our gripe in Atlanta and/or Charlotte would be that they are held hostage by lack of choices regionally (Delta, USAir; AirTran....).  Pick your poison.
Title: Re: JIA Concourse A almost done?
Post by: reednavy on March 10, 2008, 11:19:35 AM
Yup, Delta and AirTran have choke holds on KATL. Southwest can't fly out of KDFW(Dallas-Ft.Worth Int'l), they must fly out of Love Field, the original Dallas airport. Also, Southwest can't use KMIA(Miami Int'l), they must use KFLL(Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood Int'l), caue KMIA and KDFW are major American Airlines hubs. Lastly, Southwest has to fly into far away Islip Airport in the middle of Long Island, and call it NYC!
Title: Re: JIA Concourse A almost done?
Post by: DetroitInJAX on March 10, 2008, 02:49:38 PM
Quote from: Ocklawaha on March 10, 2008, 12:20:40 AM
International Airport, has come to mean "GIANT BIG GO ANYWHERE PLACE" but such is not the case. There are dozens if not hundreds or thousands of "international airports" in tiny little dusty places like Douglas, AZ or Tombstone. It just means they have the facility to isolate, and clear a flight, passengers or freight for entry or exit from the USA. So yes, there are agents that cover several tiny airports and work out of little metal sheds, clearing 4 guys in a Cessna... Still an INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT... or "Port of Entry". Since we are a large international shipping center, US Customs has a large presence here. The failure to get on the ball with the German flight could be chocked up to "Your kidding right? a big plane wants to clear here?" These boys and girls need a swift kick.

As for Hub, we are not the only player in the World Air Game, and as up and coming lines like COPA out of Panama (and everywhere else in the America's) expand, we could attract that type of hub. We could also attract any airline that is sick of the fee's at the high rent airports such as Atlanta, Charlotte or Memphis.
I worked for PI when USAir ate our system, I know what the plans were and it still makes me and the other Piedmoniters Ill! I'd walk before I'd fly USAir. The fuel future may dictate the airlines go back to a point to point type route system and not overfly any major markets. Stopovers may become more common. Planes will go in two distinct directions, super huge for your NEW YORK, CHICAGO, TOKYO, BOGOTA type flights, and just large enough to get off with a full load everywhere else.

Where I feel we could now sell the hub or point to point concept is simple, Don't overfly Florida's largest City to get to Florida's metropolitan airports... Land it here, and send out the Fokkers, Dashes and 37's from here to all of the Sunshine destinations. So rather then fly a 1/2 full 777 from NY to Miami, another NY to Tampa, another NY to Orlando, and a 737 from NY to Daytona, and NY to Ft. Myers...

WHAT IF...

We fly one 777 TWICE daily to and from JAX, across the concourse into the smaller jets and right on to the Sunshine States playgounds. It's no longer about what the passenger wants, it's now a balance of staying in the air $$$ and service to the market. In that respect, the old railroads had it right.

WE CALL IT...

JAX!


Ocklawaha



But... People dont WANT to stop in Jacksonville.  Nonstops can and do command a premium.  People like my parents (who live in Detroit), always fly Northwest.. Why?  Not because they like Northwest, but because they can fly nonstop to Florida just that much easier, instead of spending all day in transit.

Who's going to want to fly Albany-New York City-Jacksonville-Orlando?  Thats like 9 hours in transit.  The problem is, most of the cities you mentioned command tons more air service than Jacksonville.  Orlando gets pretty much hourly flights from New York all day long on a host of carriers.  Continental, for example, operates 230'ish seat B757-300s to Orlando.  The largest we get here are 737-300's (which are under 150).  Even cities like Fort Myers get more traffic.  There's more demand for these destinations.  Jacksonville is, and will always be, primarily a business market.  We are the only city in Florida that gets mainline United service and not their "TED" experiment (all coach) thats aimed at leisure markets.

Sending airplanes to all the "Sunshine" destinations already happens. Its called Gulfstream International Airlines dba. Continental Connection and it operates a point-to-point system in Florida (with a focus on Tampa and Fort Lauderdale).  It carried 62,000 passengers systemwide last month, a load factor averaging out to be 55.09 percent.  Service is provided to Tampa, Jacksonville, Gainesville, Pensacola, Fort Walton, Orlando, Naples, Palm Beach, Fort Lauderdale, Miami, Key West, and Tallahassee, as well as 10 destinations in the Bahamas.

All in all, what Im trying to say is that the days of Jacksonville being "Where Florida Begins" are over.  Florida begins for millions of people per year when they step off a 767 in Tampa, Miami, Fort Lauderdale, etc.  We may be the largest city in Florida by land area, but we're not the heart of Florida anymore.  We're just a big city that blows up its downtown history.
Title: Re: JIA Concourse A almost done?
Post by: Ocklawaha on March 10, 2008, 04:28:32 PM
What I'm predicting (though I do agree with you on your passenger/comfort/Center of Florida points) is that unless lightning strikes the Whitehouse, and some cosmic message is delivered (not that they'd understand it anyway) the fuel thing could very well spell the END of aviation as anything but critical business travel and the military. Hell they might be flying hang gliders or parasails in a few years.

I think it will come down to the ecomony of survival when fuel drives the price of a New York - Tampa ticket into the $7,000 dollar bracket... IF any air carriers survive, they will:

1. All be flying something like the 737

2. Point to Point routes with lot's of stops

3. Zeppelins (you just knew I'd toss this one in...yes I'm a REAL believer)

Just look at that #3 for a second, and toss this idea around. Moves in a straight line over the cities, cruises at about 120 KMPH. (which is easily equal to about 200 on the ground) Carrys the same or 2 or 3 or 4 times the load of any available jet aircraft... including containers. Has the most NASA like instruments made so it won't be flying into thunder storms. But look at that bottom line... Roll back the page to the 1930's... BY FACT the Graf Zeppelin used as much fuel flying from New York to Los Angeles, as a 747 uses going from the JIA concourse to the end of the runway!

So what will the future hold? I once made some real good money in airline stocks, today I wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole. Zeppelin Aircraft...Maybe. I think we'll see the new $40 BILLION DOLLAR investment in passenger rail (something I haven't mentioned in these threads until now) rip the guts out of the remaining air travel. We'll have high speed rail, and a few, maybe very few, will fly. Those that fly will do so more like a grasshopper then a hornet. They just won't be able to afford it any other way.


Ocklawaha
Title: Re: JIA Concourse A almost done?
Post by: thelakelander on March 10, 2008, 04:41:16 PM
I think we'll see the US start building new refineries and tapping into our own oil reserves before air travel dies because of high fuel costs.

By the way, can you give more insight into $40 billion dollar investment in passenger rail thing you mentioned.
Title: Re: JIA Concourse A almost done?
Post by: Steve on March 10, 2008, 05:19:35 PM
Quote from: Ocklawaha on March 10, 2008, 04:28:32 PMWe'll have high speed rail, and a few, maybe very few, will fly. Those that fly will do so more like a grasshopper then a hornet. They just won't be able to afford it any other way.[/color] [/b]

Ocklawaha

Even if we have high speed rail, I don't see "few" people flying.  For example, a Delta flight from ATL to LAX is about 5 hours, but the same trip with high speed rail (assuming 180 mile/hr) is 10 hours.  Yes, with flying, most people get there two hours before (although more and more people are signigh up to be "frequent travelers", which gets you to the head of the security line).  Assume 30 minutes to grab your luggage, and a 45 minute trip to LA's downtown area from LAX.  You are still at about 7 hours.  Unless there is a solid cost savings, then I don't see it happening.

Take Europe for Example.  I can fly from London to Rome on RyanAir for about 20 pounds (40 US) each way, and it's a three and a half hour flight.  I know I can't do that on a train.

I'm not saying that trains will not have their place, but I don't see "few" people flying.
Title: Re: JIA Concourse A almost done?
Post by: Ocklawaha on March 10, 2008, 06:21:22 PM
My projection is a bit more distant then you assume in your reply Steve. I'm thinking when oil costs like gold, and trains run on electricity from wind, solar, hydro, or hydrogen. Rails, will again be the king of the transportation hill.  

Ocklawaha
Title: Re: JIA Concourse A almost done?
Post by: gradco2004 on March 10, 2008, 06:28:45 PM
Wow, I had no clue anyone else knew about RyanAir. They are cheap, but you have to work to get a seat. Not to mention, they are the greyhound of air carriers. I wish we had something even comparable to them here.
Title: Re: JIA Concourse A almost done?
Post by: Ocklawaha on March 10, 2008, 06:51:26 PM
We did have, and JIA was a major base for them... It was called:

(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/Aviation/people_express_logo_1.jpg)
PEOPLE EXPRESS

(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/Aviation/people_express_1.jpg)

(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/Aviation/people_express_2.jpg)

You really can't believe the crap that came flooding into our airport when they went out with those big jets. The concourses would be full of sleeping bags, paper sacks, odd smells and god knows what else. It was all cash, all first come first served, order your meal and pay in advance stuff. It was ugly. They had a gate or two out beyond Piedmont when we owned the whole end of the airport. Our passengers had to put up with these flying homeless, until some hungry company made a bid for all those new jets. People Express was gone and we cheered, just a year or two later, the same thing happened to us at PI!

Be careful what you wish for...


Ocklawaha
Title: Re: JIA Concourse A almost done?
Post by: blizz01 on March 10, 2008, 09:27:34 PM
What's going on with the (name?) carrier that began nonstops from St. Augustine?  Last I heard, they had added a direct to Boston (area) - is this thing growing wings (pun intended)?
Title: Re: JIA Concourse A almost done?
Post by: thelakelander on March 10, 2008, 09:29:32 PM
Skybus Airlines.  I booked a July flight for Boston last month.  I don't know if they are growing wings, they just raised prices because of higher fuel costs a few weeks ago.
Title: Re: JIA Concourse A almost done?
Post by: Ocklawaha on March 10, 2008, 11:34:19 PM
This is what sucks about the whole thing... Back in the day, I could have booked a private roomette on the East Coast Champion, boarded downtown... retired to the Lounge for some live piano music and a Soco or two, check into my roomette... Had Breakfast with a changing view of Virginia, Lunch north of Penn Station and Dinner in Boston proper, rested, clean, and ready for an evening at the Pops...

Appoliptic, these flying contraptions... Give them the cold Steel!


"like Houdini in the river with a lock he couldn't see

when you think you hit the bottom then you better find the key

like Custer at the Horn when he turned around and said

"when you think you fin'lly got 'em, you're just as good as dead"



it's a time warp puttin' wrinkles in your skin

it's a rockabilly music make you silly in the end

it's a time warp puttin' circles on your eyes

it's a rockabilly music that's a blessing in disguise



like Ponce de Leon speakin' Spanish in the swamp

"I was lookin' for a fountain, but it's water that I want"

like Pike at the top and ev'ry other freak

"I was lookin' for a mountain, I took a little peak"



it's a time warp puttin' wrinkles in your skin

it's a rockabilly music make you silly in the end

it's a time warp puttin' circles on your eyes

it's a rockabilly music that's a blessing in disguise



like Buddah at the sermon when he didn't say a word

if you think you hear a flower, it's a flower that you heard

like da Vinci on the roof with his arm in a sling,

"A man's got the power, but a bird's got the wing"



it's a time warp puttin' wrinkles in your skin

it's a rockabilly music make you silly in the end

it's a time warp puttin' circles on your eyes

it's a rockabilly music that's a blessing in disguise



like Vincent Van Gogh when he chopped off his ear,

"I'd like to give her twenty, but I still gotta hear"

like Crockett at the wall lookin' back to Tennessee,

"the livin' costs you plenty, but the dyin's still for free"


Ocklawaha