QuotePeter Rummell, immediate past chairman of the Jacksonville Civic Council, said Tuesday evening some Jacksonville business leaders want to examine creating a private investment group that would pool funds to assist Downtown development and other efforts.
Rummell, chairman of the global Urban Land Institute, spoke to the institute's North Florida group at "Emerging Trends in Real Estate 2013" program at EverBank Field.
Rummell referred to a private investment group in Cincinnati that "put together a pool of money to make things happen."
The group is 3CDC, Cincinnati Center Development Corp.
full article: http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=538642
Would the Laura st Trio be invested in? Mad maybe mass transit too?
He said he developed an "overriding thought."
"I have decided that Jacksonville is the perfect size for what we want to do," he said. (Jax Daily Record)
This is the mindset that should have everyone paying attention to Mr. Rummell and those with him. Who exactly does he mean when he says "WE"? Rummell of course is the "HE" in this equation. Think about it and remember that this same group of folks promised that they would step up and fund "The Jacksonville Journey" when Peyton was in office. Just to remind you, we the taxpayers are footing that bill.
Here is where citizens who are determined to see a better Jacksonville can begin to engage and be involved. If citizens sit back and let one man and his group decide where we should be as a city, we give away our power to special interests. Right now we have a mayor put into office with a great deal of effort by Rummell. What is the agenda really and what pray tell will happen to the voice of the average person in these grand plans? The good old boys are alive, well and doing their thing.
A power void was created with the ending of Peyton's last term as mayor. Power players worked to find a candidate they could as Rummell calls it "work with". Translated, this means someone who will follow their lead. They found their guy in Alvin Brown and the "agenda" is being revealed.
Yesterday Brown announced his 9 million find for downtown development "private investment", but gave no plan as to what that money would be used for. Nine million served up without a plan. If you follow the history of this city and the power players over the years you will see how our dollars have continually been funded into the dreams of a few. We need a broad, well thought, far reaching plan to make a better future for us all. Look, Jacksonville has been easy pickings for the smart business investors for years and we are not that much better for it. Perhaps the JCCI planning group will be a great venue to take a serious look at who should be the deciding powers when it comes to our future in this city.
I don't believe the global head of the Urban Land Institute, who's fought for Jax his entire life, is an opponent of the people of Jacksonville. If him and his millionaire buddies want to take some of the vacant Downtown buildings and turn them into apartments, offices, and coffee shops; then I'll live, work and play in those gladly. Everytime I've spoken to the gentleman, he's been very polite & thoughtful. He's also very much embraced people not in his "GOB" network.
I do appreciate your keeping us on our toes though; it's important to analyze everything we are presented.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Rummell and co were Moran supporters and didn't switch over to Brown until the final runoff between Hogan. Which I'd wager that >50% of MJ posters also did.
Downtownjag, I too don't have a problem with private investors spending their money to as you stated fix up apartments, offices and coffees shops. The rub is this and it is the old well known philosophy in big business, "Don't spend your own money spend the money of others." For years big money guys have lined up to use Jacksonville as a personal piggy bank. They hedge their investments with funding from incentives i.e. tax dollars. Often when those investments fail, they then look to the city and government for further financial relief. It's an old standard of doing business. The problem is this. Our little piggy bank has been run dry. Alvin Brown managed to squeeze some blood out of a turnip this week and "find" eleven million, nine of which is for "private investment". So who gets those dollars? Usually the people with money and connections. This leaves nothing for the little guys, mom and pop businesses, small start ups etc. We well know that much of what keeps American going and people employed is small business. When our money (city money) is added to the investments of the haves, they do well but it does little to advance the needs of an entire community. Look at where the money went under John Peyton. See that nice big box courthouse downtown, the empty lots around it? We must pay attention and ask ourselves what we want for downtown and for our city. Should it be equitable? I believe so and don't feel as though the city should always prop up the dreams and plans of the big guys and even fixing up random buildings etc without a plan doesn't create the changes we need to see. I did not vote Peter Rummell into office and while I am sure he is a nice enough fellow I don't trust the future of our city to him and his personal agenda (or the agenda of a restricted few). When the money is gone, the big players move on. St. Joe Company is gone as well as others. There is a reason for that.
Recently we had library closings and talks about shutting off streetlights to save money. Then magically yesterday, we hear of nine million to put into downtown, without a plan. Truth is, there is a plan and that was to seed the piggy bank for the big players again. If we were truly talking about growing the "entire" downtown, we would be talking about a plan and direction that has room for all the people to participate and get a share of what is being offered to put their own dreams to flight. For years and years in this city many have been content to sit back and let others decide their future, especially when they have connections.
City Life, during the last election cycle we had an unusual situation in that there were a number of "players" i.e. political donors who had connections to more than one candidate. Their agenda was to support the candidate that would best fit their personal agendas, be it social ideas, financial investments or just for the lust for power to influence what happens here. As Moran and Mullaney continued to beat each other up in the race and stay neck and neck "players" began to meet privately with candidates and float their agendas in order to see how compliant that candidate would be to those agendas when in office. Towards the end of the last campaigns, it was apparent with Moran and Mullaney sharing votes that it would be down to Brown and Hogan. Rummell made his choice and put several hundred thousand behind Brown because he could "work" with him. Rummell's money and support as well as the placing of folks like Chris in the campaign mix was what took Alvin over the hump and put him in office.
Quote from: stephendare on January 30, 2013, 03:19:14 PM
Although no one could have ever predicted it, City Life and I seem to be having alot of identical points these days. Hopefully something huge will happen shortly that will restore us to our traditional passive aggressive opposition or else the balance of Jacksonville power might begin wobbling dangerously.
here's where it gets worse....Mr. dare and I are also on the same page here!
QuotePerhaps if we found projects that were good for all of us, and then found ways that the objectives could by accomplished in a way that actively creates profit for our local business titans at the same time, we would hit on the same winning formula that is enjoyed by every successful dynamic city in the world. stephendare
This is what needs to happen in my opinion. We need a good plan that includes everyone. Keep in mind the words of the article we are referencing which states "Rummell says Private investors
"MIGHT" assist downtown. He said assist. When we last heard promises of financial assistance from some in this group via Peyton and The Jacksonville Journey, assist did not end up with the promised financial help. ;) Right now Rummell is testing the waters to see how the city and citizens will respond to this type of direction and influence. I think it is important that the direction of this city and investments made are not exclusive to those with more money or greater influence and why the JCCI's discussions are important at this juncture and need to remain apart from politics.
Quote from: tufsu1 on January 30, 2013, 03:28:48 PM
Quote from: stephendare on January 30, 2013, 03:19:14 PM
Although no one could have ever predicted it, City Life and I seem to be having alot of identical points these days. Hopefully something huge will happen shortly that will restore us to our traditional passive aggressive opposition or else the balance of Jacksonville power might begin wobbling dangerously.
here's where it gets worse....Mr. dare and I are also on the same page here!
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Quote from: Cheshire Cat on January 30, 2013, 02:47:19 PM
Their agenda was to support the candidate that would best fit their personal agendas, be it social ideas, financial investments or just for the lust for power to influence what happens here.
You literally just described virtually every American who is in any way involved in the political process. As Stephen pointed out, it wasn't some grand conspiracy to get their guy in, simply a choice to back the lesser of two evils (though I wouldn't consider Mayor Brown an evil, just an analogy).
It is also pretty well known around town that it is virtually impossible to even break even on projects like Laura Trio, Old Library, Bostwick Building, etc. So the only possible way to get them done is with incentives of some form. So even if a Rummel or crony got a little money to help with projects like that, it's not like they would exactly be making a killing or anything. Their motives could quite likely even be civic minded and driven by a desire to leave a legacy behind in the city.
Its ridiculously easy for people with money to make money. I have a grandfather that had a similar career to Rummell (both former Disney Execs) and trust me guys like that don't need to bribe local politicians to make money. It's not fair to jump to conclusions without tangible proof.
I hope the discussion does not slide into who was elected mayor and why, that is not the issue :) Mr. Rummell invested over $400,000.00 into Brown's campaign for a reason and it had to do with business and influencing where the city is headed. Mr. Rummell made it clear from the get go that his interest was in downtown and investments there. No drawing of conclusions here. We all know downtown needs to be brought back to life. My point is that we have heard this all before and while finding money for downtown is a headline grabber we have no clarity on the finality of the DIA positions nor do we have a plan. If the people do not work together to formulate one, someone in private interest will and that plan could benefit everyone or just a few. Who knows. I think what interests me about the timing of the found nine million for downtown and the article under discussion now is again understanding who the "WE" is and what the "WE" envisions for downtown. Keep in mind that whatever happens with this funding will have to go through city council and that is another discussion altogether. I just want those who are interested in a revitalized urban core to look at all the angles of any and all ideas and discussions.
I am interested to see what the JCCI discussions flesh out. I do have ideas like so many here do, but having ideas and finding a working environment to implement them in is another question. lol I would start with some thinking points. The first would be how do we collectively impact and improve our own self image (Jacksonville's)? The second would be who and what does Jacksonville represent in 2013? By this I mean what is the personality of our town and how do we make the best of it in the urban core? The third would be how do we excite people about improvements with a legacy of broken promises to stand on and so very little money to work with?
JAX 2025 will be done well before the DIA's CRA plan, which will most likely be the "downtown plan."
There isn't a plan yet Stephen and I would have hoped we would have had some indication of one with the announcement of more funding for downtown. As Ennis now points out, a plan will likely come later.
It is interesting to think about how differently all of us see the issues before this city and how to tackle them, which is why everyone should be included and also why I keep referencing the JCCI study. For me getting some idea about what we collectively feel our city is and should become is not an intangible to me and I am guessing may be vetted to some degree in the 2025 forum. :) I simply come at challenges from a different angle and as such am interested to know how others see this city and where we are in 2013 as well as where we need to go from here.
Let me add that there have been some remarkably good ideas presented on this board over the past few years. The question becomes how do those discussions go from ideas to realities? In my view the answer is that they can't if everyone does not have a seat at the table where the decisions go down.
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on January 30, 2013, 04:47:57 PM
Let me add that there have been some remarkably good ideas presented on this board over the past few years. The question becomes how do those discussions go from ideas to realities? In my view the answer is that they can't if everyone does not have a seat at the table where the decisions go down.
We discuss and try to flesh out ideas here. Then as so many of the successful already implemented ideas that have come from here (lighting Laura, ending the Mobility Fee Moratorium, no dedicated BRT lanes, Mike Hogan's political career, ect) we take the talk in mass to the City council, DVI, RAP, DDRB ect by meeting, email, phone and petition. San Marco's Doug alone has brought ideas from here and delivered them to more groups than I care to count.
1. Public discussion groups, forums and competent reporting by media outlets.
2. No due date, just a point of reference for current discussions. What we represent would be a statement as to our values as a community. Are we conservative, liberal or conflicted? I go with conflicted and that has been a stumbling block to progress for a long time.
3. I think Alvin did a good job about exciting people in his campaign, but as many in media have reported, that excitement got a bit stale after a year or so and in the light of a failing budget. I think with the financial challenges facing this city (which is why I brought up the closed libraries and turning off street lights) and the pension issues, getting people to support any expenditure is not going to be easy, which is why some sort of indicator of a plan to go along with the nine million for downtown would be helpful.
Now Stephen, what do you think should be in a plan?
Quote from: JeffreyS on January 30, 2013, 04:56:32 PM
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on January 30, 2013, 04:47:57 PM
Let me add that there have been some remarkably good ideas presented on this board over the past few years. The question becomes how do those discussions go from ideas to realities? In my view the answer is that they can't if everyone does not have a seat at the table where the decisions go down.
We discuss and try to flesh out ideas here. Then as so many of the successful already implemented ideas that have come from here (lighting Laura, ending the Mobility Fee Moratorium, no dedicated BRT lanes, Mike Hogan's political career, ect) we take the talk in mass to the City council, DVI, RAP, DDRB ect by meeting, email, phone and petition. San Marco's Doug alone has brought ideas from here and delivered them to more groups than I care to count.
I agree and this is something to be proud of. I should have been more specific, for instance Bob's favorite discussion of streetcars. I have always thought he was onto something with that.
Quote from: stephendare on January 30, 2013, 05:17:39 PM
Complete land use rezoning for the greater downtown area to allow residential, creative and infill uses that are presently either illegal or difficult
The restoration of land and sea travel connections centered in the urban core
A transit system that connects the core and the old city area of Jacksonville.
The cessation of parking enforcement as it has been implemented for years.
The rerouting of streets to two way use, favoring transit, walkers, bikes, and scooters.
The implementation of public art and a complete reorganization of the cultural council funds
Salary guarantees and subsidies for high tech and bio tech jobs downtown,
Urban Ag ordinances in the historic core
Restoration of water based commerce and commercial strips along the river banks
A small cruise craft industry haven.
An aggressive working partnership wth the State College downtown.
A restoration of all historic LaVilla properties and a celebration of the Proto Advent of the Harlem Renaissance.
Divestiture of most of the City owned land and property and an aggressive leasing policy of such structures until they are eventually sold.
The establishment of the highest speed wifi infrastructure in the world extended throughout the urban and historic cores.
Public construction and maintenance of covered walkways and awnings on every city owned and maintained property.
Excellent ideas Stephen. I hope you will be participating in the JCCI study.
How do you propose salaries be guaranteed?
QuoteA restoration of all historic LaVilla properties and a celebration of the Proto Advent of the Harlem Renaissance.
This I love!
Quote from: stephendare on January 30, 2013, 05:17:39 PM
Complete land use rezoning for the greater downtown area to allow residential, creative and infill uses that are presently either illegal or difficult
The restoration of land and sea travel connections centered in the urban core
A transit system that connects the core and the old city area of Jacksonville.
The cessation of parking enforcement as it has been implemented for years.
The rerouting of streets to two way use, favoring transit, walkers, bikes, and scooters.
The implementation of public art and a complete reorganization of the cultural council funds
Salary guarantees and subsidies for high tech and bio tech jobs downtown,
Urban Ag ordinances in the historic core
Restoration of water based commerce and commercial strips along the river banks
A small cruise craft industry haven.
An aggressive working partnership wth the State College downtown.
A restoration of all historic LaVilla properties and a celebration of the Proto Advent of the Harlem Renaissance.
Divestiture of most of the City owned land and property and an aggressive leasing policy of such structures until they are eventually sold.
The establishment of the highest speed wifi infrastructure in the world extended throughout the urban and historic cores.
Public construction and maintenance of covered walkways and awnings on every city owned and maintained property.
I don't know how I feel about this "plan"...its a little too specific and "ideasy." What's your angle? Where are the intangibles anyway? What about 'happiness' and 'inclusiveness' and 'togetherness'? I can only get behind vague, ambiguous plans.
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on January 30, 2013, 05:06:51 PM
Quote from: JeffreyS on January 30, 2013, 04:56:32 PM
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on January 30, 2013, 04:47:57 PM
Let me add that there have been some remarkably good ideas presented on this board over the past few years. The question becomes how do those discussions go from ideas to realities? In my view the answer is that they can't if everyone does not have a seat at the table where the decisions go down.
We discuss and try to flesh out ideas here. Then as so many of the successful already implemented ideas that have come from here (lighting Laura, ending the Mobility Fee Moratorium, no dedicated BRT lanes, Mike Hogan's political career, ect) we take the talk in mass to the City council, DVI, RAP, DDRB ect by meeting, email, phone and petition. San Marco's Doug alone has brought ideas from here and delivered them to more groups than I care to count.
I agree and this is something to be proud of. I should have been more specific, for instance Bob's favorite discussion of streetcars. I have always thought he was onto something with that.
Streetcars have been included in the mobility plan, JTA's long range plan, and the North Florida TPO's 2035 Long Range Transportation Plan. The mobility plan even went as far to include 100% funding through the mobility fee for a starter segment between Park & King and Downtown's East Bay Street. That segment is $36-50 million, so I can't imagine the Mayor's money being used for something like that.
My hope with the Downtown CRA plan is that it places more focus on public policy, land use regulations, and public infrastructure, parks, etc. It should be something that helps guide market rate private development in a manner where every little project becomes a workable piece in completing the vibrancy puzzle. As soon as that plan dives into deciding what specific uses/business models should be on private property, you're in a territory where your plan may not be feasible in reality.
When it comes to the $9 million the Mayor has set aside, my first question would center around if this is for getting private development off the ground (i.e. Laura Trio, Bostwick, Latitude 30, Jax Landing, etc.) or funding a public improvement (i.e. Hemming Plaza, Southbank Riverwalk, streetscape, etc.)? These categories require different steps in evaluating the $9 million's ROI.
Quote from: thelakelander on January 30, 2013, 05:24:10 PM
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on January 30, 2013, 05:06:51 PM
Quote from: JeffreyS on January 30, 2013, 04:56:32 PM
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on January 30, 2013, 04:47:57 PM
Let me add that there have been some remarkably good ideas presented on this board over the past few years. The question becomes how do those discussions go from ideas to realities? In my view the answer is that they can't if everyone does not have a seat at the table where the decisions go down.
We discuss and try to flesh out ideas here. Then as so many of the successful already implemented ideas that have come from here (lighting Laura, ending the Mobility Fee Moratorium, no dedicated BRT lanes, Mike Hogan's political career, ect) we take the talk in mass to the City council, DVI, RAP, DDRB ect by meeting, email, phone and petition. San Marco's Doug alone has brought ideas from here and delivered them to more groups than I care to count.
I agree and this is something to be proud of. I should have been more specific, for instance Bob's favorite discussion of streetcars. I have always thought he was onto something with that.
Streetcars have been included in the mobility plan, JTA's long range plan, and the North Florida TPO's 2035 Long Range Transportation Plan. The mobility plan even went as far to include 100% funding through the mobility fee for a starter segment between Park & King and Downtown's East Bay Street. That segment is $36-50 million, so I can't imagine the Mayor's money being used for something like that.
My hope with the Downtown CRA plan is that it places more focus on public policy, land use regulations, and public infrastructure, parks, etc. It should be something that helps guide market rate private development in a manner where every little project becomes a workable piece in completing the vibrancy puzzle. As soon as that plan dives into deciding what specific uses/business models should be on private property, you're in a territory where you're plan may not be feasible in reality.
When it comes to the $9 million the Mayor has set aside, my first question would center around if this is for getting private development off the ground (i.e. Laura Trio, Bostwick, Latitude 30, Jax Landing, etc.) or funding a public improvement (i.e. Hemming Plaza, Southbank Riverwalk, streetscape, etc.)? These categories require different steps in evaluating the $9 million's ROI.
Exactly Ennis! I am always impressed when I hear your input and like many of the ideas Stephen proposed above as well. As you point out, we need to evaluate or at least have some understanding of the ROI for the nine million going forward. For those who may be newcomers to these conversations can you share more of what a CRA plan is?
Quote from: stephendare on January 30, 2013, 05:28:29 PM
as a restructuring of tax and economic development incentives. If we are going to give a million dollars to a corporation in order to relocate to downtown it should be given in the form of direct salary incentives to highly paid professionals. To wit. If a bio tech firm relocated here, instead of simply handing over a million dollars in tax incentives to the company, we collect the taxes due, then disburse salary checks to the employees living in the city directly. Maybe even tie it to residence in core neighborhoods.
The company still gets the benefit of the tax incentives by having the city take the same money and pay high wages (with a guaranteed base on the part of the corporation) to their employees, and the City gets the benefit of beginning to accrue a highly trained well compensated labor force that will attract other companies to relocate here in the same fields.
This is a very interesting approach Stephen and I can see the benefit in it.
I also think there is a great deal of importance in looking at and improving the neighborhoods surrounding downtown. For instance the SOS group have dug in and gotten their hands dirty. They put action to their words in a positive way and good things are coming from their efforts. Seeing funding go to some efforts like this abutting downtown would be something worth thinking about. That neighborhood could well stimulate activities downtown.
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on January 30, 2013, 05:29:34 PM
For those who may be newcomers to these conversations can you share more of what a CRA plan is?
Before the Downtown Investment Authority (DIA) can help significantly advance the revitalization dreams everyone desires, a Community Redevelopment Area (CRA) plan must be developed.
This is a plan that addresses the unique needs of a targeted area and in the Jacksonville's case, the targeted area is downtown. Typically, these plans include the overall goals for redevelopment, as well as identifying the types of projects planned for the area. Examples of traditional projects include: streetscapes and roadway improvements, building renovations, new building construction, flood control initiatives, water and sewer improvements, parking lots and garages, neighborhood parks, sidewalks and street tree plantings. CRA plans can also include redevelopment incentives such as grants and loans for such things as façade improvements, sprinkler system upgrades, signs, and structural improvements.
Thank you both Ennis and Stephen. I would hope that these ideas are carried forward for discussion in several venues. The time is now if it ever was. In essence this type of input is what could be missed if a single entity or group were allowed to direct our collective future. These ideas are the type of good thinking that can and will bring us forward.
Quote from: thelakelander on January 30, 2013, 05:46:11 PM
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on January 30, 2013, 05:29:34 PM
For those who may be newcomers to these conversations can you share more of what a CRA plan is?
Before the Downtown Investment Authority (DIA) can help significantly advance the revitalization dreams everyone desires, a Community Redevelopment Area (CRA) plan must be developed.
This is a plan that addresses the unique needs of a targeted area and in the Jacksonville's case, the targeted area is downtown. Typically, these plans include the overall goals for redevelopment, as well as identifying the types of projects planned for the area. Examples of traditional projects include: streetscapes and roadway improvements, building renovations, new building construction, flood control initiatives, water and sewer improvements, parking lots and garages, neighborhood parks, sidewalks and street tree plantings. CRA plans can also include redevelopment incentives such as grants and loans for such things as façade improvements, sprinkler system upgrades, signs, and structural improvements.
Ennis, I have always felt that some grants and loans for small business recruited for downtown would do a lot to stimulate interest and excitement. It would also create job opportunities and some viability on the streets. I used this approach years ago in another city down south. Identified the types of small businesses that would draw people into the core and then recruited them with grants, tax abatement and gratis business licensing. I also then worked with building owners to allow these small business a six month and sometimes longer "rent free" start up agreement. It worked really well.
In tandem with this came a clean up and refurbishing (things like our currently neglected street plantings/flowers etc) that made the core much more inviting. I also secured a federal grant for facade upkeep and improvements. Just some paint and flowers and a little give from property owners that they can write off was magic.