Metro Jacksonville

http://unfspinnaker.com/moon-now-considering-unf-football/

QuoteIn a story published in The Spinnaker during the fall semester, Athletic Director Lee Moon was asked about the possibility of UNF starting a football program. His response was, “Not in my lifetime.”

But today Moon publicly changed his stance. Moon said that he has been polling fraternities and sororities to test the climate for football on campus, after receiving permission from President John Delaney.

“I asked, would they want to see football at UNF and, two, would they be willing to support it with some sort of fee,” Moon said.

Moon said the response from the students polled was overwhelmingly in support of football, and that he has talked to Student Body President Carlo Fassi about the possibility of football in order to keep him in the loop.

If we established a football program, Moon said, he would implement a scholarship program in the FCS.

He said that he had hoped to model UNF after programs without football teams like Gonzaga, VCU and Butler. But, he said, those are northern schools that were built 25 years ago at a time when football was not the driving force.

“Now, this generation, where we are as a young institution, the driving force is football. And the driving force in the south is football,” Moon said. “You’re not a with it school â€" you’re not looked at in the same view as a four year institution â€" without football.”

“The credibility of the school is not validated without football,” Moon said.

Moon said he has looked at schools in similar situations, such as Georgia State, UNC Charlotte University of Texas-San Antonio, and Old Dominion.

He would not give a price range for startup costs but said that adding a football team would likely double the athletics budget, which is currently close to $8.3 million dollars.

Moon went to Delaney and told him, “I know I said not in my lifetime, but…” and Delaney was shocked. Moon said that Delaney and Fassi had been trying to convince him to look at football.

While Fassi could attest that Delaney didn’t like JU being the one getting attention from football, he didn’t know if Delaney had made any decisions about a program.

“If he has I’d want him to be the one breaking the news to everyone,” said Fassi.

Moon said that student fees will increase, but does not know by how much. UNF students currently pay an athletic fee worth $16.33 per credit hour that makes up the majority of the UNF athletic department’s budget.

To add a football team, Moon will have to decide whether to drop a men’s sports team or add a women’s team, but is unsure which direction he will go.

According to a football feasibility report authorized by Florida Gulf Coast University in 2011, gross expenses (scholarships, compensation and operations) for FCS Football and additional women’s sports would reach approximately $5.9 million at full implementation.

In a similar feasibility report authorized by Georgia State in 2008, the estimated annual cost of adding football at the division 1-AA level was between $6.2 million and $24.8 million.  The cost includes $3 million for the football program, $1 million to add another women’s sport for gender equality, $800,000 annually for additional staff, and $2.4 million to $20 million annually for facilities depending on available venues.

“We want to be competitive at the highest level, and to do that we have to fund that at the allowable limits of the NCAA. And we are not there yet.  Across the board we are not there yet,” Moon said in the September interview.

In September, Moon also said UNF has some of the best facilities on the East Coast but can’t fund enough scholarship dollars to carry football. He said other problems include lack of space and unknown community support.

“There are lots of decisions, but I’ve been through this before,” Moon said. During his time at Marshall University, Moon took a D-II school and turned it into a BCS program in nine years.

President John Delaney could not be reached for comment.

No matter how much people wish for this, it isn't going to happen for a very long time.

PS, just got the email from the President's Office about starting an exploratory look at adding football.

I saw a t-shirt the other day, on the front it said "North Florida Football" on the back "Still Undefeated" - will become obsolete and maybe a collector's item.

Quote“The credibility of the school is not validated without football,” Moon said.

Yup, that podunk school MIT has no credibility at all, don't know why anyone would want to go there.  Must be losers not smart enough to get into some other school.

Quote“The credibility of the school is not validated without football,” Moon said.

Yup, that podunk school MIT has no credibility at all, don't know why anyone would want to go there.  Must be losers not smart enough to get into some other school.
[/quote]

He said "the" school, meaning UNF, not "a" school.  80+ Nobel laureates tends to validate an academic institution.

^And at any, MIT has football (Division III).

Here's the Jacksonville.com story, based on the press release.

http://m.jacksonville.com/sports/high-schools/2013-01-15/story/are-you-ready-some-football-unf-exploring-possibility-adding

Email from Delaney -

"Message from the President

Today I asked the Board of Trustees for permission to begin discussions with faculty and students about the possibility of starting a football program at UNF. A number of universities within Florida and also others within our conference are looking at adding football teams. This may negatively impact UNF’s current athletic conference alignment and may open up opportunities at the same time. This is exploratory only, and not a commitment to adding football.

I have long said that a Florida public university needs enrollment of about 25,000 students to properly support football. And most schools of that size do indeed have football. Thus football is probably inevitable for UNF at some point.  But our Athletic policy has always been that no academic resources can be used to support Athletics, and that we will not lower our academic admission standards. In short, Athletics has to support itself financially and not negatively impact the school academically. We are simply examining the pros, cons, costs and ramifications and doing preliminary due diligence.

With the athletic conference realignments, and with other Florida schools and others in our conference considering adding football, the landscape is changing dramatically. What was premature just a few month ago is a timely investigation now. This clearly is not an opportune time economically, but we have a duty to look at all options.

There will be plenty of opportunity for input once we get a few more details.

Again, we are at the very early stages of this discussion and analysis.  As we look into this option, we seek feedback from students, faculty, staff, alums, donors, volunteers and the community at large. This will be a long process with ample opportunity to weigh the pros and cons.  We go into this knowing the possibility of having a football team at UNF will be a hotly-debated topic on campus and in the community.  Please know I am committed to doing what’s right for UNF."
'

If UNF is serious about adding a football program they will need to be very cautious. Florida is already bursting at the seams with a dozen D1 schools as is. While taking a more bare bones approach to football like JU might not sound very sexy, it would allow them to test the waters without too much financial risk. The last thing UNF needs is to be stuck in a situation like FAU or FIU where they flounder around and are only noticed by the student body when they play UF/FSU.

I always envisioned UNF as sort of a sleeping giant when it came to athletics. If it adds scholarship football, I would expect it outgrow the A-Sun. UNC-Charlotte is adding football this fall and will be D1 in two years. UT-San Antonio and Old Dominion have built their programs in a similar fashion.

Quote from: FSBA on January 16, 2013, 07:13:03 AM
If UNF is serious about adding a football program they will need to be very cautious. Florida is already bursting at the seams with a dozen D1 schools as is. While taking a more bare bones approach to football like JU might not sound very sexy, it would allow them to test the waters without too much financial risk. The last thing UNF needs is to be stuck in a situation like FAU or FIU where they flounder around and are only noticed by the student body when they play UF/FSU.

I don't know how their start ups differ but I'm impressed by how USF started from scratch and quickly built a respectable football program.

Quote from: thelakelander on January 16, 2013, 09:00:32 AM

Quote from: FSBA on January 16, 2013, 07:13:03 AM
If UNF is serious about adding a football program they will need to be very cautious. Florida is already bursting at the seams with a dozen D1 schools as is. While taking a more bare bones approach to football like JU might not sound very sexy, it would allow them to test the waters without too much financial risk. The last thing UNF needs is to be stuck in a situation like FAU or FIU where they flounder around and are only noticed by the student body when they play UF/FSU.

I don't know how their start ups differ but I'm impressed by how USF started from scratch and quickly built a respectable football program.

I really think UNF should be looking at the programs at USF, UCF, FAU, and FIU as opposed to the ones listed in the article. If UNF can't reasonably expect to compete with those schools, is it really even worth starting a program? Will students and prospective students care about a team, if they aren't competitive? Things have changed a little for those schools, but most of their students are still UF, FSU, or Miami fans first. UCF has the best student support of the 4 and still only draw about 5-10,000 students to each game, despite having a brand new on campus stadium and like 60,000 students.

USF didn't start their program until 1997 and built a decent program quickly. However, they have been stuck in neutral for about 5 years and still don't have much of a fan base. UCF has had a program since 1979 and didn't actually get competitive until USF stepped up and pressured them. Despite joining the recently weakened Big East next year,  they are in a pretty crappy spot as a program (probation, decreased donations, under performing attendance, apathetic fan base).  FAU started in 2001 and FIU in 2002 and are still floundering...though FIU seems to be on the rise. Those 4 schools all have a considerable head start on UNF, have better recruiting grounds, higher endowments, higher enrollments, and a head start on facilities. Yet, none of them are successful, and I also believe FAU and UCF are having some money issues relating to expanding to quickly.

I'm not saying UNF shouldn't start a program, because I have no clue about the financials and goals...but I do hope that whoever does takes a hard look at the other 4 state schools.

Quote from: Tacachale on January 15, 2013, 06:56:40 PM
^And at any, MIT has football (Division III).

Not only that but MIT has a strong football tradition, they "hack" the other teams during rival type games.

I'd love to see UNF fall in line with USF and UCF and create a strong football program, hell it would be great to see a home town team actually score while they're playing!

QuoteThe First Harvard/Yale Football Game Hack

Technically, the very first Harvard/Yale football game hack by MIT students almost occurred in 1948. The night before the big game, the students snuck into the stadium and buried primer cord under the field. The plan: the MIT pranksters would sneak in remote control devices into the stadium during the game, and ignite the primer cords mid-game, burning the initials "M.I.T" into the middle of the field. Unfortunately, groundskeepers found the cords; thus, the hack was aborted.

In 1982, the first THA-engineered Harvard/Yale football game hack was more skillfully executed when a black weather balloon suddenly popped out of the playing field on the 45-yard line. As it inflated more, the stadium crowd saw that the initials "M.I.T" were printed on the balloon's side. It kept inflating until it exploded, sending a spray of talcum powder all over. This was an act of pure vindication for the failed1948 hack.

Another notable hack at the Harvard/Yale game happened in 1990 when MIT students attending the game fired off a rocket that hung an MIT banner over one of the goal posts.

All this is is thinking about whether we should start thinking about football. At this point any number of factors - especially student and faculty support - could stop the whole thing. Even then, all the specifics would be years down the road. Of course big questions will be if the program can be financially feasible in D-I FCS, whether it can be done without affecting the academic budget and other budgets, and what kind of actual support we can expect from students and the community.

CityLife, none of the other state schools are good models for UNF to follow. USF and UCF are enormous schools with even bigger athletics fees (their programs are also doing a lot better than you say). UNF never intends to follow that path.  FIU and FAU, on the other hands, are models of how not to build a football program.

The schools to look at are those of about our size and stature that have managed to put together sustainable football programs at their level. And that's if it's even time to look at it.

I didn't mean UNF should emulate those schools, just that it should take note of how those schools have done things and learn how difficult it is to start a program in this state. Like you said, FIU and even moreso FAU have had some major problems and those schools started their programs up while Florida and the SUS were in a boom period. As I said in the other post, those schools also have other built in advantages over UNF too, like higher enrollment, bigger endowments, more fertile recruiting grounds, located in wealthier parts of the state, etc. My point was basically, if you're starting a football program in Florida, you should also be analyzing the football climate in Florida...not just in an athletic conference that I would imagine UNF does not strive to even be in down the road.

Also, UCF is probably doing worse than I said. I have a family member that is fairly well connected with their Boosters/athletic department and they aren't doing nearly as well attendance wise as they projected when they built their new stadium, are joining a dead conference, have wanted to fire their coach for about 5 years (but can't even afford to buy out his contract),  are about to be hit with 3 years of pretty serious scholarship losses, and have a very frustrated fan base/student base that was sold a bill of goods about them joining the big leagues soon. USF did just hire a pretty good new coach, but prior to that, they've been on a downward trajectory over the past few years.

Now I have no clue what net benefits those schools have gained from heavily investing in football ( I hope that is something UNF looks at), but I imagine they aren't as great as it may appear on the surface.

Oh, I can assure you the higher ups have looked extensively at the college football climate in this state and at what the other schools have gone through. As I said, big factors in all this will be the finances and the level of support we could realistically expect from the students and community for football at this level (FIU and FAU got way too far ahead of themselves there, and it really bit them).

There are a number of peer schools comparable to UNF various ways (size, the city they're in, profile, and educational outlook, etc.) who've started football programs that are successful at their level, like UNC Charlotte, UT at San Antonio, Georgia State (none of whom are in our conference). Those would be the examples to follow - when it's time.

It may be hard to believe, but Northern Illinois, who just happened to play FSU in the Orange Bowl was once a FCS school (Football Championship Series) formerly called Div 1-AA. They made the decision to go Div 1-A back in the late 70's spent the money to meet the stadium sizing requirements. They too floundered to get past their prior reputations, but by the mid 80's were producing solid teams.  After they moved to the new MAC conference, they have been a regular winner.

Everyone pooh-poohed them, until they beat Georgia and Maryland and reached #6 in the rankings a few years ago.

So if UNF does embraces football, they will probably approach it like the FAU did, start in a small-major conference like the Sun Belt. Then when they get traction, move to a large mid-major conference, in this case C-USA.

FAU started sports in only 1979, I think they have done pretty good. If UNF were to start football in 2020, it will probably be 2030-2035 before the program elevates depending on the quality of the coaching.

New release from the President's office:

Quote
Message from the President
In January, we began the process of thinking about starting a football program at UNF. At that time, I promised we would analyze the possibility, while being committed to doing what is right for our campus. After much financial examination, we have concluded that we just can’t make it work. To some, I know this is relief, as many have told me that adding a football team would ruin the unique serenity of our campus. To others, this will be a disappointment. And while I understand the feelings on both sides, when we explored the feasibility within the budget constraints, the numbers simply did not add up.

I have long said that a Florida university needs enrollment of about 25,000 students to properly support football. And most schools of that size do indeed have football. And with our continued growth, football is probably inevitable for UNF at some point. But after in-depth analysis, we have determined that football is just not a part of the near future at UNF. However, we will continue develop the sports and recreation fields' master plan in anticipation of long-term growth that will hopefully include Osprey football.

I appreciate your input. Please know that when the time is right, we will take another look at this topic.

good to see they are leaving the door open in the future

About the only crappy news that I've seen on here within the last 24 hrs......

I've always admired Delaney's refusal to do anything half-assed.

I'm glad the door is open in the future, but with or without football, UNF is a really fantastic school.

Does anyone know the financials for JU's football program? They seem to be making it work playing as a scaled down FCS school. Starting up a football program with the expectation to fast track it to FBS would be a great way for UNF to get a major financial albatross around its neck, just ask FIU and FAU.

For selfish reasons, I wanted this to happen. But this was the news I expected. I was up in Atlanta last week and was reading about Kennesaw State starting a football program in 2015. They play in the Atlantic Sun with JU and UNF but their enrollment is well over 20k.

I know it will happen someday but probably not for at least 10-20 years.

I never thought that one of the colleges I went to, the U. of South Alabama, would start football but lo & behold they did. It has been a mild success at worst.