Metro Jacksonville

by Mike Sharkey

Staff Writer

Terry Lorince noticed new faces and Ron Barton noticed how diverse the group was before him.

Both were speakers at Wednesday’s joint meeting between the Jacksonville Economic Development Commission, Downtown Vision Inc. and Downtown property owners with an interest in both organizations.

Barton carried most of the hour-plus meeting. While he did talk about some of the things that have plagued Downtown problems and every master plan created to address those problems, Barton’s overriding theme was one of action rather that talk.

He brought the JEDC’s 2007 Downtown Action Plan and talked about the necessity to implement the suggestions in the plan as opposed to ignoring them, then listening as Downtown merchants, property owners and residents complain.

“We don’t need a whole lot more vision,” said Barton, to an audience of around 75. “We need execution.”

Barton said the activity at the Jacksonville Port Authority will serve as a major economic stimulus catalyst for the next decade. And, while some of that growth will permeate to Downtown, the success of Downtown, says Barton, rests primarily on the JEDC and the Downtown business owners and property owners.

“It’s important for the folks in this room to be advocates of Downtown,” he said. “Downtown is the heart of the region, not just Jacksonville. Any great economic driver has a thriving downtown. Downtown needs to be vibrant and inviting.”

Barton said it’s time to concede the Downtown residential real estate market is essentially flat. Rather that focus on that, he said, it’s time to focus on the “horizontal” issues that will complement the vertical projects that have garnered headlines and radically altered the Downtown skyline.

“I think there’s a sense of frustration on the part of those who live here and work here because we have focused so much on the vertical concept,” said Barton, acknowledging that the new sports venues and private developments have changed Downtown for the better and forever. “We have spent hundreds of millions of public and private dollars on the vertical, but we have not paid attention to the horizontal.”

Barton said he has a self-imposed deadline of two years to not just address the issues but see results in such areas as streetscaping, the conversion of many one-way streets to two-way, the walkability of Downtown, safety, cleanliness and others. He also wants Downtown residents and merchants to consider the area a true neighborhood and take pride in that neighborhood concept.

If Barton is successful, there will be major changes at several Downtown landmarks and mainstays as well as major improvements to the Brooklyn and LaVilla districts. According to Barton, it’s been 30 years since Friendship Fountain was touched. He dispelled talk of tearing it out and talked about working with the Museum of Science and History (which he called a bunker) and River City Brewing Company to totally revamp that area of the Southbank.

Barton also said there are plans in the works to renovate Metropolitan Park to include relocating WJCT and possibly Kids Kampus.

“When you are at Kids Kampus you don’t even know you are on the river. The way it’s developed, it doesn’t need to be on the river,” said Barton. “We want to create a signature open space that complements Downtown. A simple plan that uses the park as a driver is more important than ever.”

Barton said the proposed County Courthouse is a project that by law must be built.

“Just build the courthouse,” said Barton, adding he’s been to way too many meetings in which the courthouse was the topic of discussion. “It’s not a discretionary item. The courthouse is not a catalyst if we just continue to debate it. We committed to a plan to move the civic functions to the urban core. This is the last piece of that plan.”

Sheriff John Rutherford said he has met numerous times with Downtown merchants in an effort to address their concerns. He said crime is a challenge not only in Downtown, but in every community in Jacksonville. He likened the Downtown residents and merchants to his Community Service Officers in that they are both badgeless eyes and ears for JSO.

“This partnership is very important,” said Rutherford, explaining how understaffed his department is. “The problem now is deployment. We have a high number of officers in the high crime areas which means a limited number Downtown, which frankly doesn’t have the violent crime.”

Rutherford warned that thanks to its state-high murder rate and record number of traffic fatalities, Jacksonville is teetering dangerously close to becoming a near-lawless town.

“If we don’t turn this thing around, we could be the next Detroit,” he said. “That’s why this partnership down here (Downtown) is so important.”

http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=49531

The Jacksonville Economic Development Commission and Downtown Vision Inc. have combined efforts to create a list of priorities for Downtown. Ron Barton, JEDC executive director, explained the following list of initiatives isn’t in an order of importance, but rather resembles dominoes â€" meaning the final steps, or objectives, can’t be reached unless the beginning of the list is addressed.

The following list of initiatives is a summary of the 2007 Downtown Action Plan, which Barton and his staff created by taking the input from five separate task forces, all made up of Downtown retailers, residents and property owners and all charged with carefully examining a single aspect of Downtown living and working.

Barton said many of the items on the list have been implemented or are in various stages of implementation. However, as a whole Barton said, it’s time to stop talking about the items on the list and start doing them.


• Enhance the level of service for “clean and safe” programs

• Develop and implement a comprehensive streetscape plan

• Convert one-way streets to two-way streets

• Create a Riverwalk enhancement plan

• Improve Downtown connectivity by an enhanced trolley system and complementary Bus Rapid Transit system

• Enhance event programming

• Improve wayfarer signage

• Refine approval process and create one-stop shop approach

• Promote workforce housing

• Implement innovative parking programs and parking management initiatives

• Update and implement stormwater management plan

• Initiate a Downtown marketing strategy that emphasizes Downtown districts

• Engage in active, targeted retail recruitment

• Develop an enact a master plan for Metropolitan Park/Kids Kampus

• Redevelop the Friendship Fountain area

• Improve connections from the “emerald necklace” to the river and upland activity nodes

• Identify and facilitate large-scale, catalyst projects

• Create more marine-themed activities and improve marine linkage

Question - what here was not mentioned in the Downtown Master Plan 8 damn years ago!?  Enough of these meetings and planning sessions.  Do the crap already!

Did anyone attend this meeting yesterday?  If so, what was your opinion of this event?

These meetings are like Pep-Rallys for the Cubs... a lot of hype, but they never deliver. Barton is making very tired with the circular speeches already!

My advise would be to start with these two;  These are things that are noticeable yet relatively inexpensive. 



• Convert one-way streets to two-way streets

• Improve wayfarer signage


If you can't show tangible progress on these two, then no one is going to believe that expensive items like Friendship Fountain or the Emeraald necklace will ever get done.

Also, residential may be flat overall, but take this down poin tin the market to opens the door to encourage market-rate projects on city-owned lots.       

Quote from: vicupstate on February 28, 2008, 12:27:32 PM



• Convert one-way streets to two-way streets

HELLL NOO!!! HELL NO!!! NOT A GOOD IDEA LEAVE THE ONE WAYS HOW THEY ARE!!!! ASK RIVERSIDE HOW THE POST STREET - COLLEGE STREET IS WORKING OUT? TERRIBLE IDEA!!!! SOME THINGS JUST SHOULD NOT BE BOTHERED WITH.

What's wrong with the Riverside streets?  Coming from someone who does not live in the neighborhood, it appears that both streets are more pedestrian friendly and traffic moves much slower.  Is this a bad thing?

Quote from: Coolyfett on February 28, 2008, 02:20:30 PMHELLL NOO!!! HELL NO!!! NOT A GOOD IDEA LEAVE THE ONE WAYS HOW THEY ARE!!!! ASK RIVERSIDE HOW THE POST STREET - COLLEGE STREET IS WORKING OUT? TERRIBLE IDEA!!!! SOME THINGS JUST SHOULD NOT BE BOTHERED WITH.

Actually, I think other than the fact that parallel parking is stupid on both sides of the street, they would tell you that it is working great.  The whole point of converting them back to two-way streets is so they don't turn into freeways.  One-way streets are more friendly to cars, two way streets are more friendly to pedestrians and neighborhoods.  Which would you rather have downtown?

I attended the meeting with about 18 other Springfield residents. I agree that now is the time to implement these plans. We have been spending bad money after good for all these studies when we all know what needs to be done. Downtown needs to include Springfield as we are the closest residential base and we support the businesses there on a regular basis.

One of Downtown's major problems is that the city views it as an island unto itself.  The health and connection of communities like Springfield, LaVilla and Brooklyn are the things that will truly stimulate downtown.  What did Barton have to say about improvements that would better connect Downtown with Springfield?

Outside of the skyway (if they build the new station in Brooklyn), its more disconnected from downtown then Springfield is.  It will take decades for growth to overflow from Brooklyn into LaVilla.  I hope the plan for Brooklyn doesn't involve whitewashing it and leveling everything still remaining in that community.  I guess time will tell.

Btw, did he mention when they would break ground on any of the Brooklyn projects?  Grass is now growing where they tore all the buildings down along Park Street.

Quote from: thelakelander on February 28, 2008, 02:24:24 PM
What's wrong with the Riverside streets?  Coming from someone who does not live in the neighborhood, it appears that both streets are more pedestrian friendly and traffic moves much slower.  Is this a bad thing?

Post street has had 4 accidents and College had 3 in withing the last 2 or 3 months. I lived at the corner of Post & Stockton. Seriously all bs aside man pedestrians should be on the sidewalk. When the change was done it was confusing to many at first. Then you have the few bottle necks that pop up on both College and Post during rush hour. Basically they just turned College and Post into Myra and Forbes...IMO..it was pain to drive on after the change. Then you have the College/Post/McDuff/17 crossing, I have seen 3 wrecks there as well since the change. That area was never a problem the 7 years I lived in Riverside. Accidents suck...I just think it was a bad change.

Quote from: Coolyfett on February 28, 2008, 08:16:07 PM

Quote from: thelakelander on February 28, 2008, 02:24:24 PM
What's wrong with the Riverside streets?  Coming from someone who does not live in the neighborhood, it appears that both streets are more pedestrian friendly and traffic moves much slower.  Is this a bad thing?

Post street has had 4 accidents and College had 3 in withing the last 2 or 3 months. I lived at the corner of Post & Stockton. Seriously all bs aside man pedestrians should be on the sidewalk. When the change was done it was confusing to many at first. Then you have the few bottle necks that pop up on both College and Post during rush hour. Basically they just turned College and Post into Myra and Forbes...IMO..it was pain to drive on after the change. Then you have the College/Post/McDuff/17 crossing, I have seen 3 wrecks there as well since the change. That area was never a problem the 7 years I lived in Riverside. Accidents suck...I just think it was a bad change.

If we went back far enough, there were probably a series of accidents when the streets were originally converted from two-way to one-way streets.  Nevertheless, the streets do feel like neighborhood streets as opposed to the highway feel they had before the change.  Depending on what angle you come from, that could be a good or a bad thing.

In terms of pedestrian safety, One-way streets have the obvious advantage over Two-ways because pedestrians and drivers need look only one way when watching for traffic.

How many times have you looked both ways when crossing a two-way street, only to be nearly hit by a car coming from the first direction you looked?   ???

That all goes out the window when parallel parking is allowed on both sides of streets that aren't that wide.  The speed of traffic on those streets is definately slower than when they were one way.

Yes, the traffic is slowed, but that is a result of reducing the capacity from a OW to a TW  :-\
There are traffic calming devices (raised intersections, raised cross walks, speed humps, speed bumps) that reduce top speeds on roads while still allowing traffic to flow freely and not causing risk to the walking and driving community.

Wasn't the desire to reduce capacity and slow down traffic the main point of converting them from OW to TW?  I could be wrong, but I thought the intent was to reroute a majority of the thru traffic up Roosevelt to I-10/95?

Quote from: midnightblackrx on February 28, 2008, 09:31:35 PM
In terms of pedestrian safety, One-way streets have the obvious advantage over Two-ways because pedestrians and drivers need look only one way when watching for traffic.

That's a pretty good way to get run over... One way streets don't guarantee one way driving.

Quote from: Lunican on February 28, 2008, 10:28:55 PMThat's a pretty good way to get run over... One way streets don't guarantee one way driving.

How true - how many times have I seen someone blowing down Forsyth or Adams the wrong way.

Quote from: Lunican on February 28, 2008, 10:28:55 PM

Quote from: midnightblackrx on February 28, 2008, 09:31:35 PM
In terms of pedestrian safety, One-way streets have the obvious advantage over Two-ways because pedestrians and drivers need look only one way when watching for traffic.

That's a pretty good way to get run over... One way streets don't guarantee one way driving.

Your right that people do make mistakes and run the wrong way down OWs and it is dangerous (of course). But whether you are crossing the road and are struck by a car going the wrong way or by a car making a left hand turn across traffic, you are still going to feel it in the morning.

The fact is that there are 32 conflict points at a TW intersection compared with 8 at a comparable OW intersection.  Fewer conflicts means the driver can focus on fewer things, including peds. 

We haven't mentioned in this discussion that two-way traffic also produces more pollution than OWs as cars that travel at lower, stop-and-go speeds burn more fuel per mile that cars that travel at constant speeds. Do we want a downtown stinking like an exhaust pipe?

I don't think anyone will debate that going from a OW to a TW makes it more difficult automobiles to drive through Riverside at a constant rate of speed.  However, its a residential neighborhood.  With that in mind, I'm coming from the position that the main focus should not be about making driving easier for motorist at the expense of the neighborhood's quality of life.

I can only speak from what I've seen, but those streets do resemble the feel of a Myra or Forbes now, as you said earlier.  From a neighborhood feel type of thing, that's a good thing, imo.  For the speedster, I-10 and Edison Avenue (via Forest, Stockton, King & McDuff) are alternatives that will get you around the slower moving residential streets in Riverside/Avondale.

I grew up in the Riverside area, graduated from Lee HS.  The two waying of Post and College was a good thing for the neighborhood.  It will take some getting used to. One way pairs are meant to move more traffic at higher speeds and do not belong in an urban neighborhoods and along most of our Downtown streets.

I was on it last night - the only problem is the parking on both sides of the street; it's just not wide enough.

QuoteI was on it last night - the only problem is the parking on both sides of the street; it's just not wide enough.

But it slows down the traffic.  This is an issue most older dense cities deal with just fine.  If its the biggest problem with these streets going two way, I think we'll be alright.

Quote from: stephendare on March 07, 2008, 11:39:52 AM
Two way streets are the only option for downtown.  The current system of one ways is so badly designed that in order to get to ones destination, one has to drive (in several cases) 12 blocks to move over three.

Two waying is what a commercial district needs.

I don't think you HAVE to have all two-way streets.  Remember, the downtown of the 1920's and 30's had a bunch of one ways.

The east-west one ways are easy to figure out because they are consistent (one west, one east, one west, one east, etc).

However, the north-south streets are a disaster:

Ocean - One Way North
Main - One Way South
Laura - Two Way until Monroe then One Way South
Hogan - One Way North until Bay then One Way South
Julia - One Way North
Pearl - One Way South until you reach Duval (then it is closed for the moonscape), then from Adams it's one way south until Forsyth, then Two Way
Clay - Two Way except for the break for the Moonscape
Broad - One Way north
Jefferson - One Way South

Are you kidding me!  So, if I'm on Duval, and I need to go south, and Laura is closed for one reason or another, I have to go to Jefferson!

Quote from: stephendare on March 07, 2008, 12:01:19 PM
there isnt enough traffic in downtown to justify ANY one way streets,

So now you're a transportation planner too?  I think, if you do some actual analysis, you will find that State and Union are justified one-way streets....and if you are looking at peak hours (like FDOT does) than Main and Ocean are also justified.

What we should look at are converting streets with low traffic numbers....and allowing on-street parking on the one-way streets during non-peak hours (as is done on Ocean already).

I agree State, Union, Main and Ocean are justified as one-way streets.  So are Broad and Jefferson.  However, I wonder if we can get away with allowing on-street parking at all times of the day on all of downtown's streets, especially Adams and Forsyth.

one-way streets do not have to be high-speed corridors.  They can be designed with on-street parking and should generally be maxed at 2 travel lanes (I'll give in to 3 on State/Union....but not 4)

and yes, it should be possible to convert some of the less traveled streets, reduce the # of travel lanes,  and/or allow more on-street parking during non-peak hours.

I'd agree with less one ways.  With that said, converting the streets is not cheap, and while some are an extreme hinderance (the north-south situation), other aren't AS much of a hinderance.  Realistically, how mich of a hiderance is the one way on Forsyth or Adams (I'm not talking about the crazy no parking 7-9 and 4-6 crap  -that needs to go), in comparison with the homeless issues, lack of signage, or poor lighting.

I agree that some one-way streets downtown can be converted.....and that is happening....the rfedesign (change signals, restrips, etc.) is underway and should be finished within a year....construction is supposed to be done by next summer.

That said, I'm sorry if people find one-way streets confusing....they're actually really simple if there is a full grid....if the street you want is going the wrong way, just make 3 right turns and there you go!

And btw Steven...as a downtown resident, I am an end user!

QuoteThat said, I'm sorry if people find one-way streets confusing....they're actually really simple if there is a full grid....if the street you want is going the wrong way, just make 3 right turns and there you go!

Imo, the problem with downtown's one-way streets aren't the fact that they are one way, its the incorporation of the one-way traffic loops from the 1971 downtown master plan into the street grid.  With the closed streets in courthouse area, if a driver on a street like Duval, Ashley or Beaver misses making a left turn on Laura, they can't make a left to head to the riverfront until they reach Jefferson six blocks away.  This is the issue that needs to be fixed and it appears it will once the streets targeted for conversion undergo that process.

Notice I did say "if there is a full grid" I am aware that there isn't a full grid in some parts of downtown....so that's what needs to be fixed....not turning every street into 2-way as some on this site have supported

Quote from: thelakelander on March 07, 2008, 05:42:00 PM

QuoteThat said, I'm sorry if people find one-way streets confusing....they're actually really simple if there is a full grid....if the street you want is going the wrong way, just make 3 right turns and there you go!

With the closed streets in courthouse area, if a driver on a street like Duval, Ashley or Beaver misses making a left turn on Laura, they can't make a left to head to the riverfront until they reach Jefferson six blocks away.  This is the issue that needs to be fixed and it appears it will once the streets targeted for conversion undergo that process.

I totally agree with you Lake.  It's crazy the way these streets are designed to run! But I think it's kind of getting away from the issue of whether to convert OWs to TWs. 

Certainly the grid should be adjusted to make more sense to drivers, but to make the roads more hostile to autos will not solve the problems of attracting more visitors downtown.  We need more restaurants, pubs, shops, etc to do that. 

While one way streets aren't the best for business visibility, I think downtown suffers from larger issues.  Namely a lack of easily identifiable public parking, overpriced retail leasing rates, poor lighting and a negative image cause by being the epicenter for vagrant activity in the city.  The street situation should be fine once the full grid is returned and the traffic directions are changed on Julia, Pearl, Clay and Bay, between Main and Newnan.