Metro Jacksonville

Jacksonville by Neighborhood => The Burbs => Southside => Topic started by: gradco2004 on February 27, 2008, 10:38:32 PM

Title: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: gradco2004 on February 27, 2008, 10:38:32 PM
Here is the current tenant list for The Markets @ Town Center

www.themarketsattowncenter.com

_ Stoney River
_ McCormick & Schmick
_ Ameris Bank
_ BJ's Brewhouse
_ Justice
_ The Viking Store
_ West Marine
_ Jos A Bank
_ Scarfone's Pizza
_ Christopher Banks
_ CJ Banks
_ Tilly's
_ NY & Co.
_ Wet Seal
_ ULTA
_ Loehmann's
_ Chipotle
_ Golf Galaxy
_ Best Buy
_ Toys 'R' Us
_ Babies 'R' Us
_ Starbucks

_ **Several outparcels still available

Here is a PDF of the layout:

http://www.marketsattowncenter.com/images/stories/btn_site_plan.gif

Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: gradco2004 on February 27, 2008, 10:43:46 PM
Where style and life come together in one location, you’ll find The Markets at Town Center.  A unique combination of specialty shops and boutiques, restaurants, and popular big box retailers, The Markets at Town Center enhances the burgeoning Town Center area of Jacksonville, Florida’s Southside neighborhood, and injects even more excitement into this market â€" a market which grows exponentially each year.

The Markets at Town Center will feature:

Toys “R” Us  / Babies “R” Us
Best Buy
Golf Galaxy
450 Residential Units
150,000 square feet of anchor space
95,000 square feet of specialty boutique merchants
25,000 square feet of unique restaurants
Approximately 7 outparcels
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: thelakelander on February 27, 2008, 11:31:03 PM
From the site plan, it looks like a typical strip center, but there are a couple of national chains that are a part of this, that will be new to the Jacksonville area.  Considering its a strip mall, the tenant mix is pretty impressive, although it sucks to see that Jacksonville's first McCormick & Schmick will be constructed as a stand alone restaurant outparcel.  Nevertheless, if people think traffic on Gate between JTB and Town Center Parkway is a problem now, just wait to this place opens.

Any idea when the Westin Hotel will break ground?
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: reednavy on February 27, 2008, 11:36:34 PM
I'm excited as hell about BJ's, their cookies with ice cream on top, holy shat is good. Bout damn time Chipotle opened here, good stuff too. Unfortunately, I won't be here for that, good ole' Keesler AFB in Biloxi, MS is callin me in July.
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: thelakelander on February 27, 2008, 11:37:33 PM
For all you Nordstrom and Neiman Marcus lovers, I just noticed the vicinity-aerial shows the their proposed locations, just north of SJTC's phase II restaurants.
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: copperfiend on February 28, 2008, 05:58:04 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on February 27, 2008, 11:31:03 PM
Nevertheless, if people think traffic on Gate between JTB and Town Center Parkway is a problem now, just wait to this place opens.


The traffic will be unreal. I avoid Gate Pkwy and the SJTC intersection like the plague. It's as if nobody planned for this.
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: copperfiend on February 28, 2008, 10:28:03 AM
Looking at the site plan, I noticed a few things. Is it saying the traffic light in front of Costco is temporary? And follow the pedestrian pathway. Does it go over JTB??
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: thelakelander on February 28, 2008, 10:58:30 AM
It definately says "temporary traffic signal".  To handle the additional traffic, there may be some road improvements that have to be made to Gate, that include closing the existing traffic signal at Costco.

The pedestrian pathway will go under JTB.  It will be incorporated into an existing underpass that will connect the center to the office parks, south of JTB.
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: reednavy on August 06, 2008, 02:29:34 PM
Work has been coming along very nicely. Many of the store fronts are being worked on. Landscaping is up next.
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: Bazooka Tooth on August 06, 2008, 02:52:01 PM
Quote from: gradco2004 on February 27, 2008, 10:43:46 PM
Where style and life come together in one location, you’ll find The Markets at Town Center.  A unique combination of specialty shops and boutiques, restaurants, and popular big box retailers, The Markets at Town Center enhances the burgeoning Town Center area of Jacksonville, Florida’s Southside neighborhood, and injects even more excitement into this market â€" a market which grows exponentially each year.

What a disgusting vomitorium of corporate marketing mindlessness.
Where my style and life come together most certainly doesn't involve mindless consumerism, and it sure as hell doesn't involve boring, bi-box crap like this 'Murican nightmare.  This whole development is why i live downtown.
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: rjp2008 on August 06, 2008, 03:23:48 PM
Everytime I drive by on JTB, I think of what could have been with this project. A huge lake in the middle with surrounding park interconnected walkways, band shell/performance area, 2nd floor residences instead of the hide-in-back Esplanade, etc. All that parking wasteland could have done in 1 or 2 garages.

Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: Bazooka Tooth on August 06, 2008, 03:40:55 PM
Quote from: rjp2008 on August 06, 2008, 03:23:48 PM
Everytime I drive by on JTB, I think of what could have been with this project. A huge lake in the middle with surrounding park interconnected walkways, band shell/performance area, 2nd floor residences instead of the hide-in-back Esplanade, etc. All that parking wasteland could have done in 1 or 2 garages.



Who needs trees and nature and responsibly planned parking? I WANT MY BEST BUYS AND BARNES AND NOBLES AND PANERAS!!!*

* ever notice how more and more people are adding 's' to the names of businesses that do not have one?  i guarentee you 9 out of every 10 people, if asked, would say the name of the sandwich place is 'PaneraS', not the correct 'Panera'.
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: assorted on August 06, 2008, 04:00:29 PM
You might want to cut the caffine and sugar out of your life?  Sounds like you Bazooka Joe is holding on a little too tight
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: Ocklawaha on August 06, 2008, 04:03:00 PM
Maybe it's just me stuck forever in a time warp, but I really prefer...

Woolworth Stores, great soda fountains
G.C. Murphys, something for everyone
Grants, who needs Sears, besides what did they do with Roebuck...(he's tied up in the basement downtown)
Ben Franklin, cool toys
J. B. Ivey, quality and they stand by it.
Rosenblooms, top shelf
Furchgotts, nice stuff
Cohen Brothers, hey the basement has trains!
That hobby shop downtown, just west of the Main Street car stop.

Oh and JTA, nothing comes close to the 70 Naval Air....


Sorry Developers, you just don't get it.  


OCKLAWAHA
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: Bazooka Tooth on August 06, 2008, 04:15:45 PM
Quote from: assorted on August 06, 2008, 04:00:29 PM
You might want to cut the caffine and sugar out of your life?  Sounds like you Bazooka Joe is holding on a little too tight
Yes, I know, having impassioned opinions on destruction of the envorionment for yet another boring big box, sprawl and local economies is totally because of sugar and caffeine-- LOLZ!!!!
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: Eazy E on August 06, 2008, 04:16:55 PM
Quote from: assorted on August 06, 2008, 04:00:29 PM
You might want to cut the caffine and sugar out of your life?  Sounds like you Bazooka Joe is holding on a little too tight

COGS?!?! is that you?!?
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: tufsu1 on August 06, 2008, 04:58:43 PM
Quote from: Ocklawaha on August 06, 2008, 04:03:00 PM
Maybe it's just me stuck forever in a time warp, but I really prefer...

Woolworth Stores, great soda fountains
G.C. Murphys, something for everyone
Grants, who needs Sears, besides what did they do with Roebuck...(he's tied up in the basement downtown)
Ben Franklin, cool toys
J. B. Ivey, quality and they stand by it.
Rosenblooms, top shelf
Furchgotts, nice stuff
Cohen Brothers, hey the basement has trains!
That hobby shop downtown, just west of the Main Street car stop.

Oh and JTA, nothing comes close to the 70 Naval Air....


Sorry Developers, you just don't get it.  


OCKLAWAHA

yep...that's definitely a time warp!
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: BridgeTroll on August 06, 2008, 06:04:16 PM
Quote from: assorted on August 06, 2008, 04:00:29 PM
You might want to cut the caffine and sugar out of your life?  Sounds like you Bazooka Joe is holding on a little too tight

LOL... :D funny you say that... I thought the same thing in a different thread.

Calm down dude :D
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: rjp2008 on August 06, 2008, 06:37:23 PM
Yet I still have hope for the 1 mil lot across the street overlooking that big sunset exposure lake.....:)
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: urbanlibertarian on August 06, 2008, 09:58:30 PM
Oh, man!  Check out BJ's beer list.  Mmmmmmmm!

http://www.bjsrestaurants.com/list.aspx
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: RiversideGator on August 06, 2008, 11:38:38 PM
Quote from: Bazooka Tooth on August 06, 2008, 04:15:45 PM
Quote from: assorted on August 06, 2008, 04:00:29 PM
You might want to cut the caffine and sugar out of your life?  Sounds like you Bazooka Joe is holding on a little too tight
Yes, I know, having impassioned opinions on destruction of the envorionment for yet another boring big box, sprawl and local economies is totally because of sugar and caffeine-- LOLZ!!!!

Take your medicine, bazooka.   :D
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: assorted on August 07, 2008, 10:04:18 AM
Easy who is COGS?    ;D
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: Doctor_K on August 07, 2008, 02:01:47 PM
Quote from: rjp2008 on August 06, 2008, 06:37:23 PM
Yet I still have hope for the 1 mil lot across the street overlooking that big sunset exposure lake.....:)
I know it's not realistic, but I hope they don't touch those parcels for a LONG time.  I love watching the sunset over that lake from my deck.  And I love driving by it all the time.
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: nicktooch on October 03, 2008, 06:43:07 PM
best buy is open!  silently opened sometime this week.  CVS and Ameris bank put up their "coming soon" signs.  Mattress Firm/Chipotle poly sign installed at street/sidewalk side.
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: Duke on December 16, 2009, 09:23:58 AM
A couple of things I noticed while sitting in traffic (naturally :-\) around the Markets:  There's a sign at the entrance to Costco for the Markets which shows the names of current tenants and also:  Black Finn, Whiskey River, and Suite.  Any one know anything about those places?  Also, while sitting in traffic (again >:( ) on the other side of the Markets, I noticed some ground clearing and some buildings going up in two areas.  Didn't know if they were related to those 3 Bars or Restaurants I named above.     Anyone?  Anyone?  ???
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: fsujax on December 16, 2009, 09:37:29 AM
Well, I know they are building a Bahama Breeze.
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: copperfiend on December 16, 2009, 09:41:27 AM
The traffic sucks there but use the UNF exit off of 9A. It will save a little time and alot of heartache.
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: sandyshoes on December 16, 2009, 12:47:17 PM
Quote from: Bazooka Tooth on August 06, 2008, 03:40:55 PM
Quote from: rjp2008 on August 06, 2008, 03:23:48 PM
...BARNES AND NOBLES AND PANERAS!!!*

* ever notice how more and more people are adding 's' to the names of businesses that do not have one?  i guarentee you 9 out of every 10 people, if asked, would say the name of the sandwich place is 'PaneraS', not the correct 'Panera'.

Bazooka, try it with an apostrophe.  In proper grammar, it indicates that the subject form is not plural, (Paneras = more than one) but possessive  ("It's one of Panera's cinnamon rolls" = it came from Panera. )  Hope this clears it up somewhat.  Do try their Decaf! *winks*
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: fowlerracing on January 06, 2010, 07:00:22 PM
Duke,

yes they are building something called "The Plaza" which will feature several bars and an outside concert area.  One of the bars is supposed to be open in March of this year.  The complex is owned by Dale Jr...

http://www.allbusiness.com/entertainment-arts/music-industry/13624186-1.html

My only question is where is it? LOL.. I have drivern thru several times looking to see where this might be, but I dont see anything that would be ready to open by March of this year... of course, maybe I am just blind.. lol.. but I have seen the signs out front on Gpkwy.......


Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: reednavy on January 06, 2010, 07:28:10 PM
A new building is already being built behind the Ameris Bank by the location for this development.
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: thelakelander on January 06, 2010, 07:44:40 PM
The new entertainment complex will include the existing vacant retail buildings near Big Island Drive.  The bar opening in March will be inside one of the existing buildings.

(its the white buildings on the bottom left of this image)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-4185-departmentstores.jpg)

Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: reednavy on January 06, 2010, 08:26:11 PM
Too bad the Neiman Marcus, Nordstrom, and Westin haven't come back around. Hopefully all 3 do down the road.
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: fsujax on February 04, 2010, 03:24:48 PM
Looks like California Pizza Kitchen is going to open up. Another missed opportunity for something unique to Downtown.

http://jacksonville.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2010/02/01/daily33.html?ed=2010-02-04&ana=e_du_pub

Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: reednavy on February 04, 2010, 03:27:00 PM
OMG, OMG, OMG. Salavating begins now.
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: Duke on February 04, 2010, 03:53:10 PM
It's about dang time....  that's fixing to be a very busy corner right there....
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: zoo on February 04, 2010, 03:58:45 PM
Yep, another one that should have gone Downtown. The commercial brokerage community in Jax has the creativity and hipness of a slug.
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: copperfiend on February 04, 2010, 04:05:25 PM
Quote from: fsujax on February 04, 2010, 03:24:48 PM
Looks like California Pizza Kitchen is going to open up. Another missed opportunity for something unique to Downtown.

http://jacksonville.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2010/02/01/daily33.html?ed=2010-02-04&ana=e_du_pub



Very cool.
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: thelakelander on February 04, 2010, 04:19:51 PM
Not suprising.  There is no reason for a chain like California Pizza Kitchen to come downtown in its current state.  A lot of these places tend to cluster around complementing chains.  We'll have to address the basics holding back DT before chains like this take a real interest.
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: finehoe on February 04, 2010, 04:41:05 PM
Those tiresome chains like CPK and Whiskey River belong in a place like SJTC.  I much prefer the likes of our homegrown London Bridge, Burrito Gallery, Chicago Pizza, Twisted Martini, TSI, Dive Bar, Mark's, Northstar Substation, TheIvy, Lit, and Dos Gatos downtown.
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: thelakelander on February 04, 2010, 04:42:17 PM
agreed.
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: Duke on February 04, 2010, 05:04:04 PM
Quote from: finehoe on February 04, 2010, 04:41:05 PM
Those tiresome chains like CPK and Whiskey River belong in a place like SJTC.  I much prefer the likes of our homegrown London Bridge, Burrito Gallery, Chicago Pizza, Twisted Martini, TSI, Dive Bar, Mark's, Northstar Substation, TheIvy, Lit, and Dos Gatos downtown.

Ah, the obligatory plug for our local establishments tied in with an little jab towards the big guys.  Look, i've lived in Jacksonville all my life and I've been to and even frequent several of those businesses downtown (especially the Bars on Bay (catchy eh?)) and even local businesses throughout town for that matter.  I'm just happy that new options are still coming into town.  I'm not saying I'm going to truck it all the way to the southside for CPK, but it's good to know that despite the economy businesses are still expanding into our city.  Besides, CPK, Bahama Breeze, Whiskey Whatever, and all those places that are going up at the town center will bring much needed JOBS to the area.  
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: tufsu1 on February 04, 2010, 07:04:52 PM
Whisky River as a tiresome chain?  The Jacksonville location will only be the 2nd.
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: thekillingwax on February 04, 2010, 07:48:12 PM
It's at the town center so it must be evil! I am thrilled to know that when I want what CPK serves, I can instead go downtown and go to a bunch of hipster douche clubs and not get what I originally wanted. AWESOME! Next time I'm in the mood for thai, I'll try JL Trent's or Lenscrafters.
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: thelakelander on February 04, 2010, 07:58:00 PM
This city is nearly 800 square miles.  There's room for those that like chains and those that like mom & pops.  I haven't been to SJTC to walk around since phase II opened.  Will CPK be in the entertainment complex or the actual SJTC?
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: reednavy on February 04, 2010, 08:07:23 PM
The actual town center, in front of Maggiano's. It is going in the Oceanology location, which wasn't even open 6 months or so, which was originally The Sharper Image Store.
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: thekillingwax on February 05, 2010, 01:06:30 AM
Oh wow, that is going to be insane. I'll have to try it at a slow time. The only time I eat out there is like around 3pm on a weekday- after lunch, before dinner or else the waits tend to be awful.
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: finehoe on February 05, 2010, 09:53:40 AM
Quote from: thekillingwax on February 04, 2010, 07:48:12 PM
It's at the town center so it must be evil! I am thrilled to know that when I want what CPK serves, I can instead go downtown and go to a bunch of hipster douche clubs and not get what I originally wanted. AWESOME! Next time I'm in the mood for thai, I'll try JL Trent's or Lenscrafters.

If you prefer a disneyfied version of entertainment with each ingredient pre-measured according to corporate standards set a thousand miles away, more power to you.  To each his own.
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: Captain Zissou on February 05, 2010, 10:09:53 AM
Quote from: thekillingwax on February 04, 2010, 07:48:12 PM
It's at the town center so it must be evil! I am thrilled to know that when I want what CPK serves, I can instead go downtown and go to a bunch of hipster douche clubs and not get what I originally wanted. AWESOME! Next time I'm in the mood for thai, I'll try JL Trent's or Lenscrafters.

It might just be me, but I'm having a little difficulty interpreting your probably glorious attempt at humor/ sarcasm.   
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: thekillingwax on February 06, 2010, 12:43:53 AM
Every time something comes to the town center, people always suggest something in the "core" as an alternative. If I want what California Pizza Kitchen serves- guess what? There isn't one downtown, going to some goofy club like TSI or even to Burrito Gallery isn't going to satisfy anyone who wants to go to the towncenter and eat at one of the places they have out there. I could see that Whiskey place competing with that hee-haw club at the landing but I think there are enough country music fans in town that the area can support both of them, otherwise the clubs mentioned aren't even competition as I don't think Twisted Martini or any of the other listed venues cater to the Toby Keith crowd.

I just don't get the anger pointed at the SJTC, I'm happy something in Jacksonville is sucessful.
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: finehoe on February 06, 2010, 01:24:08 AM
Quote from: thekillingwax on February 06, 2010, 12:43:53 AM
I just don't get the anger pointed at the SJTC, I'm happy something in Jacksonville is sucessful.

Well, speaking only for myself of course, I like SJTC.  As far as strip malls go it's pretty nice, and as you say it's a good thing to have some of those stores in town (although it's too bad Bo Concept couldn't make it).  That said, I think the developer(s), with just a few tweaks, could have created more of a true "town center" that was more pedestrian- and less auto-oriented and I guess my disappointment that that didn't happen comes out when I post on the subject.
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: Debbie Thompson on February 19, 2010, 07:05:00 AM
Yup, and I think Zoo's point was that what you are wishing for...less auto-oriented...more pedestrian friendly...already exists in Jacksonville.  It's in the urban core.  Downtown and the circle of historic districts around downtown of fabulous homes built 100 years ago before the automobile was popular and people actually walked around. We already have it, and it isn't appreciated nearly enough except by those of us who live there. :-)
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: ac on February 19, 2010, 08:01:14 AM
^ Agreed w/finehoe.  Which reminds me of a place the fam and I went to in San Jose while visiting friends:

http://www.santanarow.com/

(http://sacramentoscoop.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/san-jose-santana-row.jpg)
(http://www.1siliconvalley.com/wp-content/uploads/img_1795.JPG)
(http://www.cooltownstudios.com/images/sanjose-santanarow2.jpg)
(http://www.mikegrehan.com/images/ses-sj-2007/valencia.jpg)

If SJTC had been built up and in instead of one-story and spread out, it would have been awesome.  I still enjoy going there (most of the time), but would enjoy it more if I didn't have to hop in the car to go from Old Navy to Yogaberry, for example.

Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: finehoe on February 19, 2010, 09:31:27 AM
Quote from: Debbie Thompson on February 19, 2010, 07:05:00 AM
Yup, and I think Zoo's point was that what you are wishing for...less auto-oriented...more pedestrian friendly...already exists in Jacksonville.  It's in the urban core.  Downtown and the circle of historic districts around downtown of fabulous homes built 100 years ago before the automobile was popular and people actually walked around. We already have it, and it isn't appreciated nearly enough except by those of us who live there. :-)

You need to go back and read my previous postings if you think I'm not aware of what downtown offers.
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: copperfiend on February 19, 2010, 09:55:50 AM
Quote from: ac on February 19, 2010, 08:01:14 AM
^ Agreed w/finehoe.  Which reminds me of a place the fam and I went to in San Jose while visiting friends:

Looks good. I am not sure why the people of Jacksonville don't raise their expectations. It just seems like so many people are satisfied with average.
Title: Re: *BIG UPDATE* The Markets At Town Center
Post by: Stephanie Kellum on February 19, 2010, 11:06:00 AM
Quote from: ac on February 19, 2010, 08:01:14 AM
If SJTC had been built up and in instead of one-story and spread out, it would have been awesome.  I still enjoy going there (most of the time), but would enjoy it more if I didn't have to hop in the car to go from Old Navy to Yogaberry, for example.

I completely agree. They have a children's choo-choo train that goes around and I just want to hop on sometimes. They should have one all people can use that loops around (maybe even a few of them). I live by SJTC and always wait until just before closing to go to any of the stores. Otherwise parking is a nightmare.