Downtown Revitalization: St. Petersburg
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/2282942684_bJkVLwD-M.jpg)
With over 35 miles of bike trails and 75 miles of on-street bike lanes, it's recognized as one of the top 10 cities in the country for cycling. Today, Metro Jacksonville takes a look at the downtown of Florida's most bike friendly city: St. Petersburg
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2012-dec-downtown-revitalization-st-petersburg
Enjoyed the photo tour and history
Love that Pinellas Trail. Its useful for both recreation AND actually getting to places safely without the need for a car. Here we'd throw it in the middle of nowhere & not connect it with anything (see: Baldwin Trail & S-Line Greenway).
The Pinellas Trail is great, but let's not be so critical psu.....the trail was built in stages, and the S-line can be the same way (recently extended up to Gateway)....there's also no such thing as "middle of nowhere" in Pinellas County, since the whole thing is urbanized.
I really love downtown St Petersburg. It's beautiful and it's really come a long way over the past 10 years or so.
I enjoyed the Pinellas Trail. My dad attended Gibbs Junior College in the 1960s and growing up, we'd visit friends in the vicinity of 9th Avenue S, and I remember boxcars on the stretch east of 34th Street in the 80s. I ended up riding the trail from downtown St. Pete to downtown Clearwater before turning around to make it back before nightfall. The next day, I rode through Old Northeast, which is a pretty nice residential historic district.
Here are a few more pics from the Pinellas Trail:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/St-Petersburg-2012/i-wcmjnJm/0/M/IMG_20121217_143114-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/St-Petersburg-2012/i-sWWSzzz/0/M/IMG_20121217_143336-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/St-Petersburg-2012/i-KMgxN6P/0/M/IMG_20121217_143626-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/St-Petersburg-2012/i-PF7MJzP/0/M/P1600931-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/St-Petersburg-2012/i-LqCZbqF/0/M/IMG_20121217_133204-M.jpg)
Quote from: tufsu1 on December 27, 2012, 08:17:14 AM
The Pinellas Trail is great, but let's not be so critical psu.....the trail was built in stages, and the S-line can be the same way
Sure it could, but likely won't be. That's kind of the problem here isn't it? Sticking to plans & actually making these types of things usable. It seems Jax has a real problem with this, esp if it's transportation related. It's like the leaders (and a lot of the overall mindset of the population) can't wrap their heads around it if it doesn't include the automobile. They even argue about it in the urban areas, wanting drive up parking spots just like the way it is in the suburbs. Never understanding that the real answer is to lessen car dependency.
The reason I'm so critical is because these things never pan out. I know there's plans for it to, but you see how far those plans have gotten us so far (moratorium). If I'm wrong & the S-Line somehow magically gets wrapped around the whole of Jacksonville in the next 10 years, or even in the core, I'll come right back here & eat crow, let you guys throw eggs at me, whatever you all want. But I'm pretty sure I'm safe. ;D
Quote from: peestandingup on December 27, 2012, 10:31:00 AM
Quote from: tufsu1 on December 27, 2012, 08:17:14 AM
The Pinellas Trail is great, but let's not be so critical psu.....the trail was built in stages, and the S-line can be the same way
Sure it could, but likely won't be. That's kind of the problem here isn't it? Sticking to plans & actually making these types of things usable. It seems Jax has a real problem with this, esp if it's transportation related.
Actually, Jax has a stellar track record of following through with transportation projects- as long as they are only roadway building project. Look at how money appeared out of thin air so that we could railroad through the new 9B. When it comes to any transportation projects that do not involved paving over paradise with arterials, well then you are correct.
While we certainly have our struggles, the Pinellas Trail is 29 years in the making. I think it supports the notion that these types of projects happen incrementally. A small starter segment ended up being popular enough to gain the support of voters to fund a larger countywide corridor.
QuoteThe Fred Marquis Trail began as a vision in 1983. A man whose son was killed while riding his bike, helped form the Pinellas County Metropolitan Planning Organizations Bicycle Advisory Committee, consisting of bicycle enthusiasts. The committee, in conjunction with the Pedestrian Safety Committee, wanted a safe place to enjoy bicycle riding, strolling or jogging. The county had a separate problem - what to do with a 34-mile corridor of abandoned CSX railroad right of way.
The committees’ dream became a reality in 1990, when the first 6-mile section of the Pinellas Trail opened, connecting Taylor Park in Largo to Seminole Park in Seminole. The trail became immensely popular, with usage figures exceeding all expectations. With the passage of the first Penny for Pinellas one-cent local option sales tax, plans were put into motion to connect the County, from north to south, with a continuous trail.
http://www.pinellascounty.org/trailgd/history.htm
True, you have to start somewhere. But the quote from the article mentions the first leg of Penillas Trail was extremely popular, giving them the momentum to move it forward & expand it. How popular is the S-Line? If I had to guess, I'd say not very. Most people probably don't even know about it, as it's trail head entrance is in a scary (abandoned looking) industrial neighborhood, not to mention rolls through some pretty rough looking areas. Plus, it doesn't really connect to anything. I've ridden it several times & seeing other cyclists isn't too common. They're there, but certainly not in any great numbers.
What I'm getting at with all of this, is why didn't they do something more significant & thought out at first, or connect it to more populated areas? Afraid it might actually be a hit?? It kinda reminds me of the Skyway to nowhere & how they implemented that. "Look, this thing's a failure. Clearly no one wants this type of stuff here. Oh well, we tried." ???
since when is Springfield not a populated area?
By no means am I going to defend the planning behind the S-Line. That was simply a case of winning rails to trails money....probably just like the Pinellas Trail. The S-line just happens to be less than 5 miles long and the Pinellas Trail is on an abandoned countywide rail ROW. With the mobility plan, the intention is to link isolated bike infrastructure to form a comprehensive and integrated bike network.
If anything, they are both the results of Jax being a significant distribution/rail hub and Pinellas not. Other than the S-Line, we don't have any major stretches of abandoned track in the core to convert to multi use trails. Most of those Pinellas cities don't have active rail service today.
If the Vinoy can be brought back from the dead, so too can the Bostwick!
Quote from: tufsu1 on December 27, 2012, 01:00:18 PM
since when is Springfield not a populated area?
You mean the abandoned warehouse district in Springfield? It hasn't been for a long time.
For comparison's sake, Riverside (north of King Street) had a population density of 3,967.3 residents/square mile in the 2010 census. Springfield (the historic district) had a density of 3,963.8 residents/square mile. The neighborhoods the S-Line penetrates to the west of Springfield (Durkeeville) had 5,322.8 residents/square mile. They just happen to be minority dominated so we've historically have turned a blind eye toward them. Nevertheless, every time I've used the S-Line, i've seen most of its usage come from residents in this transit dependent neighborhood, including children who use it to go under I-95 to school.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/493696903_923VP-M.jpg)
Durkeeville, one block west of the S-Line.
I believe the revitalization of distressed neighborhoods like Durkeeville are the key to the success of Jacksonville's urban core and any type of infrastructure that improves and better connects them with the rest of the city is a plus. What we've got to do is find a way to include them in the revitalization process. If we can do that, we'll find a way (such as adding a rails-WITH-trails commuter rail line) to connect the S-Line to a comprehensive city-wide network.
I don't believe its because they're minorities that we tend not to acknowledge them as much as it is the income level. Poorer people, for whatever reason & no matter their color, tend to not use things like this, be active, ride bikes, etc. Unless its, like you say, out of absolute necessity. I don't know why that is, but its no different here than the poor (white dominated) area I grew up in.
But of course this is just one area. The Line does go through a ton of areas that time forgot too. Some people would be scared by that. I'm not, but I could see how many could. But its like you said, Lake. Connection is everything. We can't just plop them down over abandoned rail lines (thats most likely around abandoned areas) & expect results. Thats the thing that really bothers me about it. It could be great but only if we're dead set on finishing all of these things out. If we half-ass it (like we tend to do), then it might as well not even be there. At least as far as revitalization is concerned.
Quote from: thelakelander on December 27, 2012, 01:04:11 PM
By no means am I going to defend the planning behind the S-Line. That was simply a case of winning rails to trails money.
This seems to be common. It really seems like we take grant money to funnel projects, no matter how small (S-Line) or big (Skyway), throw them out there so it looks like we're doing something, never finish them out properly & then move on to something else. And when it comes time to actually put up or shut up & actually do something (mobility plan), we stop it. If I didn't know any better, I would say its all done on purpose. But My tin foil hat is at the cleaners, so... :D
I highly recommend reading the book The SEAMLESS CITY understand how downtown St Petersburg and artistic Central Blvd went from a dead space to an exciting place & learn how St Pete because a great American cycling city.
Edgewood Avenue in Jacksonville can easily become the equivlent of the Grand Central Arts District.