Metro Jacksonville

Historic NYC subway car Found in Springfield

(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-3694-dsc_0012.JPG)

MetroJacksonville has confirmed that a historic New York City subway car has been discovered in the Springfield neighborhood.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/723

Take the "A" train!

That's pretty cool....where's it at?

Is this in someones backyard?

Where is it?  Who owns it? And how much do they want for it!  That is so awesome!  Someone should clean it up, polish it and put it in a park or something.  Let people use it.

Ionia or Walnut (ock??) and 8th on the northwest block.  It sits on someones private property.

Consider the Trucks are history, within the trucks of any type of electric railroad car are the large motors, these are full of copper. Not to mention many re-usable parts. So what we have is a car body and frame.

Before we do something rash and buy it to turn it into a new restaurant or a park toy for kids, consider this alternative. We all know we are headed for some sort of electric rail in Jacksonville. Trolley routes and old Subway cars work fine together. Same vehicle, different address. Several museums and historic trolley collections have operating subway cars. The only change is the addition of trolley poles on the roof for power
pick up, and of course new trucks.

By the way, one of the companies we are working with could restore this car to new condition with the above additions.
Ocklawaha

Okay, I was hoping it wouldn't become common knowledge as a sudden tourist bloom will send the price through the sky. If you go look, make it as casual as possible. PLEASE don't go into the yard or make yourself a pest. Someone lives right next door. It's on Iona, about 1/2 block North of 8th, in a fenced yard with some blue fabric covering for privacy.

I can confirm it was there long before the fence or the building along Iona today. 35 years or so.

Ocklawaha

ONE MORE TIME! What we need to find is a Jacksonville Streetcar, and THIS IS HOW THEY ARE FOUND! They became sheds, parts of houses and vanished into back yards or industrial buildings all over the City. At least 100+ cars. I know of 5 that were scrapped in the last 30 years. Perhaps another dozen before that... So where are the rest of them? Springfield. San Marco. Riverside. San Jose. St. Augustine. Waycross (at least one). Savannah, Talleyrand. Murray Hill, etc... LOOK FOR THEM! You clue could be as small and weird as the face of this "subway" sticking out of someones Florida room. Do us all a favor, back up and snap a photo, I'll let you know what you've found.

Story? About 28 years ago, I got an excited call from Jax Beach, "I think my house sits on a Trolley!" Our I went, sure enough, a crawl underneath showed the huge metal frame of a "something" industrial. But the wheels, still attached were no where close. Some sort of industrial cart? Close but no.

Another called to say, the same thing, and sure enough, there was the headlight sticking out from the porch! It was there from 1936 until about 1990, then the house was torn down, the neighbors remember "something about it, but they hauled this thing off or something...." Where is it? You tell us.

Ocklawaha

That is too freakin cool!  I don't know how you guys find this stuff, lol.  Funny what you said about them becoming parts of people's houses.  The first thing I thought of when I looked at the blueprint, was ISO shipping containers, and how this would be a great incorporated into a house built out of those containers.

I am no expert on the subject. Could that be refurbished?

Sure.  Savannah just recently refurbished a historic trolley, in preparation for their proposed riverfront streetcar line.

www.reconnectingamerica.org/public/download/charsavan

By the way, Savannah's demostration streetcar line is estimated to cost less than $2 million / mile.

Here's the proof, a similar car, although newer, converted to overhead trolley and running on a streetcar line.
Older cars even better... Let's do it!

(http://transit.toronto.on.ca/images/streetcar-4706-17.jpg)

Ocklawaha

'is just the latest addition to a growing collection of historic railcars scattered throughout the Jacksonville metropolitan area.'

What other cars are out there?

I'm sure there's probably more out there, but here are a few I know about.

There is a caboose in Arlington's Bruce Park.
http://www.waymarking.com/gallery/default.aspx?f=1&guid=710abf41-8447-4cdb-b05d-d3091f489a7a&gid=2


a steam locomotive in the convention center's parking lot.
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-1723-p1030545.JPG)

an Orange Blossom Special passenger car in front of the convention center along Bay Street.
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-1732-p1030513.JPG)

a few former abandoned "office" cars on CSX property behind a warehouse on the Westside.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/urbanjax7816/old-rail-cars.jpg)

There's also a few switching locomotives rusting away at the vacant phosphate shipping terminal on Wigmore Street.

What does anyone know about the rail cars that are on the corner of Kingsley Avenue & the crossing in Orange Park?  Last time I drove by there, there were like 3-5 refurbished & pretty intriguing - I thought that they were available for parties in some capacity.......

hello everyone. let take this time to introduce myself. my name is bill pollman. i'm the curator of rapid transit cars at the seashore trolley museum in kennebunkport,maine. i'm currently restoring 2 complete cars like car 983. can anyone provide information on the current status of the car. is it available? please contact me by cell phone and or e-mail. my # is (617)828-7309. e-mail is wap1689@nii.net. i'm looking forward to talking with you. thank you,bill.

i forgot to mention the museum's web site. it is www.trolleymuseum.org the cars i'm working on can be viewed. please visit. you will see how we applied trolley poles on the roof. thanks againe,bill.

[tech rage!] third attempt to post, really, something simple. i almost feel like when you have a cute but small joke that nobody can hear the first two times you say it. by the time they say, "what??" for the third time, you're so exasperated, you're like, "never mind -!". [sigh]



I agree with the tenor of the comments---what a beautiful find that would be great to restore.

I thought people might like a cleaner look at the flier--

Cheers!

Hey y'all:

(http://www.vcrail.com/virginia_city_collage.jpg)
Every private car is as unique as a cruise ship, this is one of my own favorites the "Virginia City."

I'll try and answer your questions. First, the Orange Park Station Cars. This is a "PRIVATE CAR TRACK"... and a beautiful one at that. I'd like to put my own in there someday as well. The private car is just like you saw on the movie or TV show "The Wild Wild West". It is a rolling palace on rails, the interiors are imported woods, carvings, crystal and posh as hell. This is STILL the way the money set travels when they want to go through the country and not over it. Are they available for lease? Well, sometimes. The blue one, Georgia Railroad Number ?? is, you can contact FIRST COAST RAILROAD in Fernandina Beach. But be warned, if you have to ask how much? You can't afford it. Last roumor I heard the charge just to deadhead to Amtrak in Jacksonville and pick you up was in the thousands... Beyond that, the sky is the limit. However you would be American royalty. The staff is waiting on you head to toe, and every menu item is cooked or designed just for you or your group. I HIGHLY suggest asking the comfortable number to bring and split the fare to someplace like Atlanta for a JAG-FALCON game, or a JAG-SAINTS game etc... It is a once in a life time experience. Contrary to TV shows, NOBODY will enter your car from the Amtrak Train pulling it. The door is locked and the gold leaf says "PRIVATE"!

As for the Subway car, we are already working on buying it. We want to move it to a shop where our rail car partner could get to work on it as soon as the City or a foundation releases money for restoration. Edwards Rail Car is already looking into trucks and trolley equipment for the overhead pick up. A headlight and Interurban horn, controllers and new trucks, and a general cleaning, sandblasting and re-fit and she'd roll down Main tomorrow. We DON'T want another car to go onto a farm, a lake cabin or to some museum in New England. This one is FLORIDA'S UNIQUE SUBWAY CAR.  But if you'd like to help, be glad to have you on the research team.  

Bob Mann
aka: Ocklawaha
Jacksonville Traction Company, Inc.  

hello ocklawaha, i'm glad to hear you are making the effort to save the car and keep it in fla. i wish you the best of luck. god forbid,if things should turn the other way,please give me the opportunity to save the car. i do not want to lose this piece of transit hisory. i'm sure you feel the same way.keep me informed on what's going on with this project.thank you very much,bill pollman.

There's a video about the old car found in Springfield on CBS47, including a tour of the inside: http://www.cbs47.com/default.aspx

What a coincidence! I wonder how they found out about that.

What's the chance they just  happened to be exploring Ionia?  Most likely slim to none.

I know it is frustrating cbs didn't credit MJ for the find.  I love however the constant examples of how the media, the politicos and movers and shakers of this city pay attention to us.

P.S. Wayne I love the Porter and Williamson trades. I will miss Ernest however.

This thread is too cool.  I remember on Southside Blvd seeing a caboose in the Back yard of a home at one of the intersections. It has definitely been removed, and I was wondering why after all those years, they did that.

Ock, youre doing an awesome thing locating these train cars. I hope your idea gets off the ground in short order! :)

Quote from: Timkin on March 01, 2008, 11:04:31 AM

This thread is too cool.  I remember on Southside Blvd seeing a caboose in the Back yard of a home at one of the intersections. It has definitely been removed, and I was wondering why after all those years, they did that.

Ock, youre doing an awesome thing locating these train cars. I hope your idea gets off the ground in short order! :)

Shouldn't that be "gets on track"?
And I agree, great detective work.

Clue Number Two:

Phone call to JTA: "Did you guys know there are TWO Jacksonville Trolleys built into homes in San Marco?" Of course they wern't interested, so no location or return number was captured. However in about 1984, 2 cars WERE built into a shed outside of a large metal building sitting West of St. Augustine Road, between the FEC RY and University. When I got the call through Eric Smith, there was just a field littered with 3' square torch cut pieces. Still painted bright green and another bright yellow.

So it's quite possible there are another two in that area, in fact we can only account for about 1/4, of the 100+ that were sold for homes, sheds and businesses. So where are the other 3/4? YOU ARE THE EYES OF HISTORY! Open those eyes, take a side road, explore the areas, look for close bus like window patterns in a porch, or Florida Room, Look for the slightly rounded nose sticking out of a building, Look for ANYTHING odd about ANY building, check back yards and alleys too. Night or Day, I will roll on these calls. We simply MUST find some missing Jacksonville cars. Looks like we have two somewhere nearby. Can we find them in time?

Thanks for the encouragement, but I need the help of all our troops. I have a foundation that could save the NYC Car already up and running, tax exempt 501-c-3 with a 20 year track record. If you'd like to kick this off with a local drive, contact me and we'll let er fly!

Ocklawaha,
Jacksonville Traction Company

Hey I was told by the guy I bought my house from that the enormous hinges holding up my gate are from the barn doors of the old trolley station in Brooklyn.  He said he pulled them out of the rubble when they took the building down.  Would anyone have a picture of that building?

http://www.freewebs.com/lightrailjacksonville/historicalslideshow.htm
Your photo should be in my collection, enjoy the TROLLEY SHOW.

Very possible, the building stood where the Skyway repair facility now stands. It was in the way of a new freeway that included a ramp right through it's center. JTA couldn't find a way to move the ramp so they tore down the whole historic building complex. The office building and power plant were across by the TU building today.

In the end, an "OH MY GOSH!" knee slap and a wink, moment, and the freeway was canceled. (it would have gone straight on from the new Acosta through the old rail yard and come out about where the Farm Market is on West Beaver)....

JTA then decided they could use the property for a car barn! What a novel idea!

JTA 1980 edition? @#(%)*&!@#)$  ONE AND ALL!

Ocklawaha

Where is that located at? I wanted to look on Google Maps, and possibly see if its in Street View.

Quote from: Metro Jacksonville on February 26, 2008, 04:00:00 AM
Historic NYC subway car Found in Springfield

(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-3694-dsc_0012.JPG)

MetroJacksonville has confirmed that a historic New York City subway car has been discovered in the Springfield neighborhood.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/723 (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/723)

But.......it's probably so weak and rusted out that it may fall apart if it is moved; my guess is that they'll have to refurbish it where it is, restrengthen it, and then try to move it.

Heights Unknown

I've been over there and looked at it. I didn't get up close as it is fenced in, but from the fence it doesn't look like it's in all that bad of shape. Eventhough the outside is rusted over, it still looks pretty solid. I didn't see any holes or flaking of any kind. I could've missed it, but there wasn't any that was obvious. I would love to see it be used somehow. I like the diner idea. Back home (Worcester, Ma.) we had a couple of diners built in old rail cars. They were pretty cool. They were THE spot to go for breakfast, especially after a night out.

QuoteBut.......it's probably so weak and rusted out that it may fall apart if it is moved; my guess is that they'll have to refurbish it where it is, restrengthen it, and then try to move it.

Heights Unknown

(http://www.phillytrolley.org/IMAGES/bulletviaduct.jpg)
Marching on into the modern era as a 3rd rail high speed car.

(http://www.ectma.org/photos/jmb206-8-23-2003.jpg)
Today it's back under the trolley wires and has two poles for bi-directional operation

Placed on a set of trucks, that old car could roll to the shops tomorrow. It is rock solid with some body rust in a couple of lower pannels. This car is in 100x better shape then most streetcars that are restored. TRUST ME ON THAT! In fact on a massive steel structure like the frame that is probably half buried in the dirt, the rust coat will protect it to a degree from further decay. This is why it's illegal to paint freight car trucks, or couplers.

This cool part is a bit techie, but I'll try. Subways - EL's - Streetcars - LRT - Interurbans, all grew from the same root which was a purely American experiment in Richmond Virginia, by one Mr. Sprague. He tried the "What-IF" you could feed the electric motor from the new electric wires with a sort of trolley wheel-monorail gadget attached by a long cord that was simply tugged along. Within a couple of years, that was perfected into the trolley pole, trolley wire and high speed pantograph or 3rd rail. So what I am saying is that ANY of the above COULD, CAN, and sometimes do operate on eachothers lines. Those brill bullets in Philly, once had trolley poles and were converted to 3rd rail, then retired and converted back to trolley poles! The trolley in New Branford CT. is a former Chicago CTA EL, 3rd rail car, with a trolley pole added! So conversion can go either way. IF this car were saved by the city, we could restore it as a community project and it could run on special occasions along our streetcar line. Wouldn't THAT be cool to see?  

OCKLAWAHA

(http://www.classiccars.ws/projects/1911osgbradtrolley.jpg)

...and you think OURS is hopeless? Look what some rail nuts and TLC did...

(http://www.artcom.com/Museums/vs/sz/548.jpg)

OCKLAWAHA

Hah, I love that old car. We used to play in the field behind this property (I live on Walnut) and that car has always been there. When we were younger, the fence wasn't overgrown with weeds or covered with a tarp and you could see right into it. When new kids would come over to see it, I told them that the car was involved in a horrible accident and that everyone on board had died and they moved it to Florida to confuse the ghosts in it. I'm not 100% sure, but I think that at some point there was either another car or a bus back there because I remember seeing something silver and long next to it for a while but that was ~20 years ago.

If you use Streetview on Google at 1854 Ionia St, you can see the top of the car that sticks up over the fence.

I know it's been a small forever since anyone posted on this thread, but I was wondering if anyone knows what happened to the locomotive that was on display at the old Phillips Mall on Phillips Hwy back in the 70's just outside of the San Marco area (some may still think of that as being San Marco!).  It's was in excellent condition and I would really like to know what happened to it.

I hate jacksonville...through out my 12 years of school, history teachers always told me we never could have subways because we can only dig so far untill we hit water...This is awesome noe that we used to have a subway system here in jacksonville. they should pump all the water out and and try to open it up as a museum for the historic subway. I bet Jacksonville iisnt going to do that.

Quote from: Rockinvox on June 08, 2009, 10:04:49 PM
I know it's been a small forever since anyone posted on this thread, but I was wondering if anyone knows what happened to the locomotive that was on display at the old Phillips Mall on Phillips Hwy back in the 70's just outside of the San Marco area (some may still think of that as being San Marco!).  It's was in excellent condition and I would really like to know what happened to it.

I don't know if its the same one but is that the one thats now out at JaxBeach at the museum out there?

Is this still in Springfield?

yes.

Quote from: Reshon09 on October 01, 2009, 12:35:46 PM
I hate jacksonville...through out my 12 years of school, history teachers always told me we never could have subways because we can only dig so far untill we hit water...This is awesome noe that we used to have a subway system here in jacksonville. they should pump all the water out and and try to open it up as a museum for the historic subway. I bet Jacksonville iisnt going to do that.

Welcome. Sorry to say the car is from the New York Subway System, we never had a subway. Had we ever had a Subway, most of it would have been above ground like the Skyway. Even back in the old days of unlimited dreams for Jacksonville, I doubt they would have tunneled anywhere but perhaps the downtown hill. There ARE TUNNELS all under the streets, but they were never used for anything but foot traffic. Somebody probably got that car for free (which was common) and had it hauled down here for some dream pub or something. Sad thing is, it is quite the historic item, very few of it's class were preserved and only one or two museums have any. As usual, we have a treasure and were too dumb to act on it.  

Quote from: Rockinvox on June 08, 2009, 10:04:49 PM
I know it's been a small forever since anyone posted on this thread, but I was wondering if anyone knows what happened to the locomotive that was on display at the old Phillips Mall on Phillips Hwy back in the 70's just outside of the San Marco area (some may still think of that as being San Marco!).  It's was in excellent condition and I would really like to know what happened to it.

(http://www.bigindoortrains.com/primer/narrow_gauge_railroads/30in_rwys/porter_drawing.jpg)
From the HK Porter Catalog

Not the one at the beach guys, This locomotive was painted green (every inch of it, yuck) which was very faded. It was an A. K. Porter Company product, with a railroad designation wheel type of 0 - 4 - 0 T. About 1983, the mall offered it free to anyone who would take it away, but it still sat for a long time until it vanished. I imagine one of our local NRHS guys knows where it is, I know the local chapter has some equipment stored someplace around here.  

OCKLAWAHA

Ock,
the steamlocomotive.com lists it here:

No.   F.M. Whyte         Gauge          Railroad Line                  Location   
1      0-4-0T          4'-8½"            Solvay Process Works     Whistle Stop Antique Mall, Franklin, NC
   
Status   Notes
unknown    from N FL Chapter NRHS, Jacksonville, FL, sold to dealer in Georgia in 2006

(http://archive.liveauctioneers.com/archive3/wiederseim/11841/0249_1_lg.jpg)

Wow thanks any photos to go with that?  It had Porter builders plates on it at one time, but of course Mall Security turned their head one day and ZAP. Someone stole two $500 dollar collectors items.

There is a sad side to this story, having worked with antique Steam Locomotives in Colombia. (Don't go 3rd world on me, they'd put our city to shame) With a very small scrap metal demand and every mineral known on the face of the earth, we have 90 of various classes to PLAY WITH . I think every fair sized city in the country that has rails, has a toy. The mall engine might have been in perfect condition, but I highly doubt it. Like the 1504 downtown, left to the elements irreparable damage can knock them dead forever. This is why I am concerned about the engine at the "Jacksonville Terminal." Can't we at least allow some buffs in to cap the stack and repaint?

(http://www.prov.vic.gov.au/images/12903/f/12903-p00001-000789-020.jpg)

(http://afu.com/steam/L7.jpg)

Just to pressure up to low power to check out the instruments takes Federal and/or State permission. Reason? On either engine that's a huge boiler! Anyone see Myth Busters showing how water heaters can blow your house to atoms? Same principal on a massive scale. Steam under pressure (like a pressure cooker) in a solid container is safe to play with, but the instant it hits atmospheric pressure it will literally in a split second expand 10,000 times. So lets say some yahoos got in and filled the old boiler and lit her up, chances are, without a million or so in rebuilding, that old engine would blow half of waterever is left in LaVilla, flat as a mat. I doubt I-95 would survive it, and we could expect 5 and 10 thousand pound pieces to rain down on the City, up to 5 miles away.

QuoteIn the front row, photographer J.C. Deane whirls around, his face bloody, one eye gouged out, a bolt and washer buried in his head. Louis Bergstrom, another member of the photography team is knocked unconscious by a plank.

A boy, identified as Ernest Darnall, son of Col. Darnall of Bremond, was sitting in a tree is killed instantly by a heavy hook on the end of wrecking chain that caught him between the eyes and split his skull. DeWitt Barnes of Hewitt standing between his wife and another woman is struck and killed by a flying fragment while neither of the women is injured.

Many others are burned by steam and flying hot metal. A Confederate soldier at the event said it was like a Civil War battle with people falling all around him.

The concussion caused by the explosion caused even 1 ton trucks to be turned end over end for three hundred yards. It was a chaotic scene.

Sad because either the Porter or the 1504, would be beautiful as restored ambassadors for Jacksonville. Ditto for the old Subway car. Damn JTA or Parks and Recreation for not already having it sitting on blocks where restoration volunteers could work. That faint gold color, "City of New York", is REAL GOLD LEAF.

OCKLAWAHA

I always wished Jax had a real "diner" in a dining car, like Angel's in Palatka and Orlando...and like the one in St. Aug.  (Last time we went, we heard it wasn't good anymore, had a new owner, no customers;  maybe somebody could buy the dining car and move it up here and start a restaurant.  Just a thought. 

Good news, car #983 has been identified as the one that used to be in the entryway of Nichol's Alley!  See the discussion on this thread:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/jacksonville/148758-gone-but-not-forgotten-jacksonville-43.html

One poster reports it was a NYC subway car. He worked for Nichols Alley and was sent to NYC to buy a scrap car. They put it on the back of a flatbed truck and trucked it down to Jacksonville.  Someone posted pics of it being removed (date unknown):

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/History/Springfield-NYC-Subway-Car/sc0000a90401/767020094_eAPRj-L.jpg)

Mystery solved!

Cheers!  M2

What about the one in Springfield.. I wonder if it could be purchased and refurbed.. I mean its already here.

yes it available please call  me Byron 904 566 7576

Quote from: sandyshoes on October 17, 2009, 06:59:02 PM
I always wished Jax had a real "diner" in a dining car, like Angel's in Palatka and Orlando...and like the one in St. Aug.  (Last time we went, we heard it wasn't good anymore, had a new owner, no customers;  maybe somebody could buy the dining car and move it up here and start a restaurant.  Just a thought.

Angels in Palatka isn't a real railroad car, or at best one that has been completely torn apart and rebuilt MUCH wider then any rail car. As I recall back in the 60's someone there saying it was just a building that looks something like an old railroad car.

BTW, Jacksonville and the Orlando area both had 'Victoria Station' restaurants which were hacked into old railroad cars, mostly freight cars, and an occasional something else. The one in Fern Park actually had a valuable 'museum piece' Florida East Coast wooden, side door caboose. Ours was just off the Arlington Expressway.

To do the old Red Bird Subway car right, someone needs to go back to NYC and shop for a set of trucks (wheel sets and frames) so the car could be placed on a short piece of track... Displayed as God Intended it. BTW, the trucks don't have to be from the same class of car as long as the under frame clearances are close or the same.

Another possibility is remounting it on trucks and doing a historic restore on the car. Add a set of trolley poles (yes it was once a 3Rd rail electrical pickup type car but the key is ELECTRIC CAR) on the roof.  Thus the old bird COULD operate on a Jacksonville streetcar line. The short video shows another 'subway' car turned 'trolley' in action. This would make a hell of a WORKING-MUSEUM piece.

Ock.. Do you know what became of the Cars that made up the Victoria Station Restaurant that was on Arlington Expwy?

NYC.  Is this the car on 8th/Ionia?  The one in my profile pic?  I suppose the historic codes would prevent me from buying and placing on my lot? 

Quote from: Timkin on March 08, 2012, 09:14:52 PM
Ock.. Do you know what became of the Cars that made up the Victoria Station Restaurant that was on Arlington Expwy?

Sorry Tim, but ours was rather plain Jane, and the cars held no real historic importance. When they were converted for restaurant use, in many cases it involved irreparable damage, as a result I made no effort to follow these. Even the Fern Park location only got an occasional check-up to see if the old FEC caboose was still on the property. After living in South America and my return to the States, I lost touch with that location as well.

I would love to see the NYC car become a 'first piece' in a working collection of historic transit cars on a rebuilt Jacksonville Traction System - transit and tourism railway.

NYC, do you have a price tag or could it be donated for restoration?

OCKLAWAHA

I was just looking for the Casselberry , Fl location .. Once a Victoria Station Restaurant , then converted to various night clubs,

Looking at Google Earth, the parking lot where they were is all that remains.  .

Hope the one in Springfield will be donated.  its neat but it looks like it needs a lot of love

I think the "car" that is a restraint in Palatka is really an original diner trailer - the ones made in like the thirties as diners and just trucked into position.  I even think they have that info on the wall somewhere.

Has anyone called Byron yet?

Quote from: majormadmax on January 20, 2010, 06:33:58 PM
Good news, car #983 has been identified as the one that used to be in the entryway of Nichol's Alley!  See the discussion on this thread:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/jacksonville/148758-gone-but-not-forgotten-jacksonville-43.html

One poster reports it was a NYC subway car. He worked for Nichols Alley and was sent to NYC to buy a scrap car. They put it on the back of a flatbed truck and trucked it down to Jacksonville.  Someone posted pics of it being removed (date unknown):

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/History/Springfield-NYC-Subway-Car/sc0000a90401/767020094_eAPRj-L.jpg)

Weird, I thought I had commented on this thread way back, but I guess not.  My dad is the one standing with his hands in his pockets on the right.  We owned the subway car for a while.  Tried to turn it into a transit museum in Orange Park but ran into a whole bunch of problems with the town of OP.  Then my dad moved it to Springfield back when we owned that property.