Metro Jacksonville

Per Orlando Business Journal

http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2012/12/12/metroplan-board-approves-moving.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2012/12/12/metroplan-board-approves-moving.html)

And the Orlando Sentinel

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-12-12/news/os-maglev-metroplan-decide-20121212_1_american-maglev-technology-maglev-train-futuristic-train (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-12-12/news/os-maglev-metroplan-decide-20121212_1_american-maglev-technology-maglev-train-futuristic-train)

(http://media.trb.com/media/photo/2012-12/73670675.jpg)


The MetroPlan Orlando board gave the thumbs up on moving forward with more detailed studies on a planned $800 million magnetic-levitation passenger rail project that would tie into Central Florida’s commuter rail SunRail.
The regional transportation planning authority â€" which earlier this month received a staff recommendation to approve the project’s $315.2 million, 15-mile first phase from Orlando International Airport to the Orange County Convention Center with some stipulations â€" unanimously approved the proposal.
That approval sets the stage for the Florida Department of Transportation to solicit for competing bids, which would clear Powder Springs, Ga.-based American Maglev Technology Inc. to eventually move forward with the project if no other bids are received.
In a similar move, All Aboard Florida â€" the proposed 240-mile Orlando-to-Miami passenger rail â€" on Dec. 7 was the lone firm to submit a bid to the state transportation department for that particular project.
Meanwhile, Maglev’s future extensions are proposed to serve the Medical City area and stations in the Osceola Parkway corridor, including near Walt Disney World.

Metroplan's official recommendation report can be found here:

http://www.metroplanorlando.com/files/view/metroplan-orlando-staff-review-of-maglev-dec-2012.pdf (http://www.metroplanorlando.com/files/view/metroplan-orlando-staff-review-of-maglev-dec-2012.pdf)

Stupid project, stupid technology and a perfect waste of a right of way that should be light rail.  This is gimmick transportation and there isn't a snowball's chance in hell that it will come in at or under budget.  That giant sucking sound in Central Florida will be the sound of this thing failing to meet projections. Also no way it's going to be anywhere near $21 million per mile.

Florida has a long track record of investing in pie-in-the-sky ideas when common sense solutions are available off the shelf.

I've been involved in debates about this project in Orlando forums on other sites and was even told I was jealous because it wasn't being proposed in Jax, lol.  I seriously doubt Maglev Morris will be able to secure the funding to get this pipe dream off the ground.  It appears he's counting on people paying $13/ticket to go between I-Drive and OIA.  That will pretty much kill this thing to the potential commuter ridership pool and unless the theme parks, hotels, etc. get rid of their free shuttles, I can't imagine those guest willing to line up at his station either. Anyway, I just hope they don't end up like Norfolk.  He burnt $16 million on their project before it was scrapped.

Quote from: Ocklawaha on December 18, 2012, 11:51:29 PM
Stupid project, stupid technology and a perfect waste of a right of way that should be light rail.  This is gimmick transportation and there isn't a snowball's chance in hell that it will come in at or under budget.  That giant sucking sound in Central Florida will be the sound of this thing failing to meet projections. Also no way it's going to be anywhere near $21 million per mile.

Florida has a long track record of investing in pie-in-the-sky ideas when common sense solutions are available off the shelf.

Sounding a little traditional are we? 

(http://www.monorails.org/webpix/1876.jpg)(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/TRANSIT%20monorail%20and%20Skyway/Brennan_monorail_All_About_Railways_Hartnell_zpsdc725c37-1_zps0f7a2ef0.jpg)
Monorail - Trains of the future.

My comments are not based on tradition - they are based on experience.

If it isn't broke don't fix it. 

Sounds like Ol' Walt's dreams for public transportation are coming true. Still waiting on that City of Tomorrow to spring up on the Disney World property.

Yup! Don't hold your breath...

Maglev might have a place in high speed, short distance, shuttle transit where the demand is extreme such as the Hong Kong - Airport line.

In the end though, you are building a beast that has no off the shelf components, the wide gauge BART system is a poster child for examples of jumping out of the norm to shoot the costs through the roof.

Another example was the fad of building rubber tired subways, more gimmick transit. The friction where rubber meets road causes high heat which results in the trains having blow-outs! So you build in a set of train wheels just within the tires to guide you through track switches, grounding the electrical system and save you from blow-outs. Rubber tires increased the energy consumption exponentially and weather plays havoc with inflation standards. Rubber tires will have a traction advantage until it snows Being that the cars are both road and rail cars they are heavier and consume greater quantities of power making them more expensive to operate. Replacement of the tire's carries another heavy financial hit. Hey, Montreal did it so why laugh, anyone remember the original 'people mover?' 

(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/Transit-Heavy-Rail/Heavy-Rail-Montreal-Metro-wiki_zps4ad56781-1_zps0a55fc5c.jpg)
Montreal Metro

(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/TRANSIT%20monorail%20and%20Skyway/nakedmonoraildrivetire.jpg)
Jacksonville Skyway

Just read the Metroplan Orlando report to see how bad this idea is.

Why build a proprietary maglev system with non-standard track, trains, and parts to achieve a top operating speed of 50mph?

Here is how this maglev project turned out in Norfolk:

QuoteAfter years of testing and over $9 million dollars in taxpayer money, the Old Dominion University maglev train is moving out of town.

The train was supposed to carry students from one end of campus to the other.



But at a cost of $100 million just to build one mile of maglev track, it's too expensive for ODU to use. So, the university is now researching a cheaper way to accomplish the same task.

full article: http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/local_news/norfolk/maglev-train-on-the-move (http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/local_news/norfolk/maglev-train-on-the-move)

QuoteODU began working on maglev after Georgia-based American Maglev Technology promised in 1999 to deliver a working system in 2002. Technical glitches, cost overruns, unpaid bills and lawsuits derailed the project.

full article: http://hamptonroads.com/2010/01/odus-stalled-maglev-gears-next-phase (http://hamptonroads.com/2010/01/odus-stalled-maglev-gears-next-phase)

Here is a picture of his failed Norfolk maglev I took back in 2008:

(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-1514-p1020293.JPG)

Quote from: thelakelander on December 19, 2012, 02:09:23 PM
Here is how this maglev project turned out in Norfolk:

QuoteAfter years of testing and over $9 million dollars in taxpayer money, the Old Dominion University maglev train is moving out of town.

The train was supposed to carry students from one end of campus to the other.



But at a cost of $100 million just to build one mile of maglev track, it's too expensive for ODU to use. So, the university is now researching a cheaper way to accomplish the same task.

full article: http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/local_news/norfolk/maglev-train-on-the-move (http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/local_news/norfolk/maglev-train-on-the-move)

QuoteODU began working on maglev after Georgia-based American Maglev Technology promised in 1999 to deliver a working system in 2002. Technical glitches, cost overruns, unpaid bills and lawsuits derailed the project.

full article: http://hamptonroads.com/2010/01/odus-stalled-maglev-gears-next-phase (http://hamptonroads.com/2010/01/odus-stalled-maglev-gears-next-phase)

Here is a picture of his failed Norfolk maglev I took back in 2008:

(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-1514-p1020293.JPG)

Interesting. Is ODU at fault for not getting better milestones out of AMT, or is AMT at fault for failure to deliver (or oversold it) ?

I wonder how much of the $100 million was because it was a prototype and everything was a one off for R&D. (or paid off the founders mortgage?)

BTW: I went to AMT's website, missing pages, bad links, perhaps they hadn't paid their webmaster recently.

I haven't heard any faults yet with the technology thus far, just the cost. I agree with Lunican, if they reduce the speed to 50MPH (probably to keep the costs down), whats the point.

Maglev's are designed for much faster travel due to the reduction in friction. Only drag and amount of current is the limiting factor. we have hundreds of years of operational experience using rail, but collectively very little on maglevs.

Quote from: spuwho on December 19, 2012, 03:59:40 PM
Interesting. Is ODU at fault for not getting better milestones out of AMT, or is AMT at fault for failure to deliver (or oversold it) ?

Sounds like his fault....

Orange County Mayor Teresa Jacobs said she is intrigued by Morris' proposal but remains wary that he can deliver.

"It's not my nature to move forward without fully scrutinizing it," she said.

Morris has pledged to build systems before and not come through, most prominently a failed attempt to construct and test the technology he promoted at Old Dominion University in Norfolk, Va.

Morris dismisses that attempt as a misstep and part of the learning curve of bringing a rare type of transportation into practical use. The vast majority of mass-transit systems worldwide rely on steel rails and engines powered by diesel or electricity.

"We've raised money and improved our technology. … We've made progress," Morris said.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-27/business/os-maglev-train-returns-20120427_1_sunrail-american-maglev-technology-train

Quote from: Tacachale on December 19, 2012, 10:16:15 AM
Sounds like Ol' Walt's dreams for public transportation are coming true. Still waiting on that City of Tomorrow to spring up on the Disney World property.

I believe they call it Celebration :)

(http://www.architizer.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/EPCOT_001.jpg)
Walt Disney's Concept for The Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow in Central Florida.

(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/FLORIDA%20and%20Scenic%20Places/Celebration-Florida-II_zps8293d891.jpg)
Walt Disney Corporation, 'Celebration,' a planned community in Central Florida.

Hum? Meh?  ??? Looks to me like they completely screwed the pooch on this one!  About the only thing the two communities have in common is 'Central Florida.'   8)