Urban Construction Update - December 2012
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/2265338497_Vc3gRfk-M.jpg)
A brief look at the status of various projects under construction in and around Downtown Jacksonville during the month of December 2012.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2012-dec-urban-construction-update-december-2012
San Marco streetscape is looking pretty good. Wish they made the traffic circle a little bigger. Guess they did what they would in that amount of space.
What's the deal with Salty Fig? How close/far until we see some progress? This forum has said "opening this FALL" for months now. It's winter...
Nice update.
Sent you a couple of pics.
Hope you post a few.
Is that 3 story on St Johns new construction or an extreme remodel?
Quote from: acme54321 on December 17, 2012, 08:57:00 AM
Is that 3 story on St Johns new construction or an extreme remodel?
It's new construction. Based on the surrounding properties, I'm assuming it is multi-family. It looks great, in my opinion, and I hope they put in more projects like it.
Quote from: acme54321 on December 17, 2012, 08:57:00 AM
Is that 3 story on St Johns new construction or an extreme remodel?
That's a friend of mine. It's new construction, single family.
^ Single family?? That's a monster!!
Quote from: ben says on December 17, 2012, 07:02:53 AM
San Marco streetscape is looking pretty good. Wish they made the traffic circle a little bigger. Guess they did what they would in that amount of space.
What's the deal with Salty Fig? How close/far until we see some progress? This forum has said "opening this FALL" for months now. It's winter...
Have you ever opened a restaurant, especially one in Riverside/Avondale? It's not an easy process, at all.
Some of the tables are being installed now. The grease trap went in last week. The parking lot construction continues (they can't open without the parking lot).
They are hoping for a soft opening before New Years, but that's still a moving target.
Frankly, the pace has been impressively brisk within the context of the neighborhood it's located in. Mark Rubin deserves some praise for the project's pace thus far, considering the circumstances.
I noticed good progress being made at the Chamber of Commerce building this weekend also.
Glad to see 220 Riverside underway.
New contruction on St Johns is a single family, 3 story 3000+ sq ft. Owner wanted to have view of river.
Paid $149,000 for the lot about 2-3 years ago.
I hope the Cummer protects the big live oak trees in the old parking lot. They add a lot to the streetscape.
All of the oaks on the property are being saved and will be in better conditions than they are currently. The parking lot will be mostly pervious pavers and there will be more breathing room for existing trees and those that are yet to be planted. At one point ere was a design option to remove some of the trees to gain more parking, but that plan was clearly rejected.
I think Salty Fig should be opening a little after Christmas.
^ Thanks
are single family houses being included in these updates now?
Quote from: John P on December 18, 2012, 09:28:50 AM
are single family houses being included in these updates now?
Whoever took the pictures probably assumed, like most people, that it was multi-family, ergo, warranted a spot on the construction update.
Quote from: ben says on December 18, 2012, 10:23:30 AM
Quote from: John P on December 18, 2012, 09:28:50 AM
are single family houses being included in these updates now?
Whoever took the pictures probably assumed, like most people, that it was multi-family, ergo, warranted a spot on the construction update.
That said, new home construction in these neighborhoods is pretty rare and, because of that, notable. Plus, its the "urban
construction update" not the "urban only commercial construction update."
I figured it was single family. However, it was so massive and unique, I snapped a shot anyway.
Quote from: thelakelander on December 18, 2012, 10:51:02 AM
I figured it was single family. However, it was so massive and unique, I snapped a shot anyway.
If you'd like to see a big house, check out the one going in on River Road. It's not as Urban, but it is the largest house to be built in San Marco in a decade or more. The CSX CEO's house was a huge one, but it is not as big as this.
Salty Fig opens on December 30th:
QuoteThe Salty Fig is expected to open Dec. 30, restaurant co-owner Jeff Stanford said Thursday morning.
The Southern gastropub at 901 King St. was born as a food truck in July to get the community familiar with the food and the new concept that is heavily influenced by Southern cuisine and local and regional produce whenever possible.
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/blog/retail_radar/2012/12/the-salty-fig-to-open-dec-30.html
Nice to see how the concept that starts off as a food truck can grow into a brick & mortar business.
Lake, Since this is one of your areas of specialty, you might want to keep an eye on the huge vacant parcel that just sold on Downing Street. It's just under two acres and stretches from Lydia to Downing. I am not sure but expect a completely self contained village of small single family homes, in an area that is really hot right now. This parcel came on the market as a result of the collapse of First Guaranty Bank and the subsequent receivership of all their holdings by the FDIC.
^^^That happens a lot...which is part of the reason why restaurants are scared of food trucks. Some of the best restaurants in Atl and SF started off as food trucks that impressed some folks out for lunch who had lots of money sitting around. We put a food truck operator into a bay in a retail/office warehouse rehab I worked on - 10 year lease.
I can tell you that food trucks are just a part of F&B business now and are nothing novel or new (years old at this point). The next wave of F&B is going to be centered on market style vendors, and I can tell you my company is at the cutting edge of this. Food trucks are mobile so they can work in more suburban cities, as well, but the next trend requires a more urban setting and crowds - perfect for the Landing (I can't think of too many buildings where this could work in Jax...maybe the Prime Osborn, though).
Ferry Building in SF
Chelsea Market in NYC
Ponce City Market being developed in Atlanta
Reading Terminal Market in Philadelphia
West Side Market Cleveland
Warehouse Row in Chattanooga
Union Station in Denver (will have this concept and serve as their ridiculously useful and centralized multi-modal transit hub)
I now live 3 blocks from the Ferry Building in SF and it is absolutely great! Mix of very high end restaurants with mid-priced lunch/dinner spots with locally sourced food, and I can get half my groceries there if I want to spend a little extra money on quality (as well as goods, flowers, etc etc). All of this in a very well done 1896 vintage building on the waterfront. There are some chain shops, too, like Sur La Table, that like to be near all of this stuff. Rumors are that the Port/Equity Office are going to bring the building to market...I can think of a few companies who might be interested :)
Toney Sleiman would be wise to go for something along these lines as there is nothing like it in FL and the Landing could easily be turned into a very cool place for the right amount of money (it's expensive but worth it). Again, I credit Toney with a complete lack of vision here (really all he needs to do is get the money...it's Toney, he has all the relationships in Jax to do this, he needs a good architect from another city who has done this sort of thing, and all he really needs to do is copy what other companies have already done).
I think the success of that block on College/Stockton St and the success of Black Sheep is an indicator that there is a market for quality local merchants in Jacksonville and an interest in "cool" urban spaces by the populace. You want to get suburbanites and tourists downtown and in the Landing so you turn a huge buck on your incredibly low basis? Turn it into a large market that you can't replicate at SJTC or anywhere else in FL so far as I can think! People will forgive parking woes if they are dying to go there to check it out, and right now parking or no parking the Landing sucks.
The Landing does not need to be a shopping center underneath high end residential condos and offices...that's clearly not going to happen in Jax any time soon. Turn it into an elementally cool place that takes the "best of Jax" and puts it all under one roof. Slowly get rid of Hooters and these shitty Asian sushi places and look for local operators like Jonathan Insetta to backfill them with cool new restaurant concepts adapted to the location and the space.
Music Man, is this the parcel off Frederica Place, near King Street? If so, that would be a nice infill site for mixed use.
Slowly get rid of Hooters and these shitty Asian sushi places and look for local operators like Jonathan Insetta to backfill them with cool new restaurant concepts adapted to the location and the space.[/quote]
Get rid of your most loyal tenant...... Interesting....You are not a property manager are you?
^^^There is property management, which runs the budgets and deals with tenant issues, and then there is asset management, which actually makes these types of decisions. I work in asset management as an analyst. I build the models for the assets and run the analyses on these types of decisions, so I have looked at many similar situations. Often it makes sense to keep a tenant at whatever the cost, or to not pursue a new direction, or whatever. But often it makes sense to pursue a new direction, which might require upfront costs that include buying out leases. You can't mix Jonathan Insetta and Hooters, but you can mix Hooters and chain bars/sushi places. I would love to see the numbers in detail behind the Landing because my hunch is that there is a lot of potential for a new direction there that could benefit the bottom line of Sleiman Enterprises and benefit the city.
The Landing may cease being the party HQ for FL/GA, but the foot traffic that might be generated there on a daily basis could be tremendous if it offers tourists, suburbanites and locals an interesting place to visit and something different.
Edit: sounded too harsh
I personally have never seen T Sleiman do anything "creative". The Landing might be his "loss leader" for his otherwise succesful property portfolio. I've said it before and I'll say it again, give Starbucks a great deal on a waterfront space at The Landing and force all those customers to walk through The Landing to get to it. Add
an entrance to it from the Riverwalk and $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
Lake, Yes it is that really beautiful parcel parallel to King a couple blocks over. I believe the new owner is building new and rehabbing in Riverside-Avondale, so I expect exclusively residential in there.
Didn't they run Starbucks out of a non-riverfront space there? I can't imagine Sleiman giving them a deal on a better spot. Nevertheless, I do believe the redevelopment of the Landing is one of the most critical things we must address in the Northbank. I wouldn't mind seeing some of the stuff Sleiman originally proposed, such as the opening of the courtyard to Laura Street and the food court being shifted to Independent & Hogan, being dusted off.
Quote from: MusicMan on December 20, 2012, 12:52:57 PM
Lake, Yes it is that really beautiful parcel parallel to King a couple blocks over. I believe the new owner is building new and rehabbing in Riverside-Avondale, so I expect exclusively residential in there.
It sounds like Lake is talking about the piece of the FGB property that is rumored to be for sale. MM, are you talking about that piece or the lot with a culdesac in it with two large buildings already built??
Who cares about Sbx? Get another Bold Bean/independent in the Landing! Sbx has already indicated they don't feel strongly about DT, so that is a lease Sleiman will have to "buy", and it isn't worth it as it won't attract other credit nationals there. I assume Sleiman's leasing team is talking to local operators/entrepreneurs/concept investors? The Landing at present would never attract me to it if I were considered a special store/restaurant in a "hip" neighborhood, but the right architectural touch and appropriate investment would turn my attention (or the appropriate tenant package to facilitate a really cool buildout and a termination clause after 5 years and rent relief if sales don't exceed $x, LoL). I see no reason why the operators of Bold Bean wouldn't do a location in the Landing now as-is?
There are already a slew of local entrepeneurs who could create a phenominal presence in a new market downtown, but part of the purpose of a repositioned Landing could be to cultivate new entrepreneurs in the city. Has Sleiman's leasing team considered approaching any of the more successful food trucks for bricks & mortar locations in his center? I picture stuff like Green Man Gourmet, W90, the former Matthew's Market, Bold Bean, Black Sheep, etc etc all having space under one roof, preferably in a totally redone, totally cool Landing, or a totally redone Prime Osborn. To my knowledge there is nothing short of the Landlord holding that sort of transformation back (it's already been done in even smaller markets).
My company literally turned part of a 60s era shopping center anchored by Safeway, Kohls, and Ross Dress into a really cool promenade for local/independent shops and restaurants in a blue-collar suburb of Oakland, CA. If that can be done, something with as much potential as the Landing can be fantastic.
Granted my company is very well-capitalized with offshore and institutional money, and has a stellar national reputation with in-house development and marketing and leasing, but Sleiman has so many examples to look to of cookie cutter developers cultivating their lone namesake deal. There's an industrial developer in Nashville that built an infill shopping center and put a Whole Foods, Billy Reid, Anthropology, and best in class local restaurants in there, so strip mall kings can have some creativity.
What we did at the CA shopping center in a nutshell was shop around for the best restaurant operators we could find, worked with two to create business plans that would fit the demographics, offered them their dream restaurant buildout, and crafted leases that were simultaneously LL and TT friendly. First 3 years percent rent with option to convert to fixed in year 4. If they meet their business plan (we underwrote conservatively), they will convert to a fixed rent that is at least 3x that of their neighbors, and their occupancy costs will still be low/reasonable...and most importantly we benefit immensely.
Their presence has activated an inner courtyard, where we are filling up shop space with other local entrepreneurs...and competing with the community's "Main St" and the local planning/zoning boards has been a challenge we have overcome. I would guess Toney has different, but potentially fewer challenges and much more upside at the Landing.
Sleiman doesn't give a rats ass about leasing out the Landing. If he did he could easily have the place full. He chooses to focus on developing his generic suburban strip malls which is his real bread and butter. The Landing would be best served if he would just go ahead and sell it to someone who has a true vision for it.
^^And my boss tells me that multitasking brings one closer to God. Literally, he said that. It makes no sense for Sleiman to simply float by with the Landing, pulling in enough operating income to simply pay the ground lease. Only an idiot would take no advantage of the opportunity presented. I know he tried early on and it didn't work out, but that plan wouldn't have worked out nearly anywhere...it wasn't his fault, the city's, or even totally the market's. Why not go for a plan that capitalizes on an up and coming trend and is grounded in economic reality?
Local operators don't have parking requirements. They all have operations in 5 Points, Avondale, San Marco, etc. They are all going to do much better than Starbucks, Hooters, Sunglass Hut, Great American Cookie, etc etc. Putting all of the best of the best under one roof in that location would create a huge critical mass of heavenly goodness that would attract tourists and the upper middle/upper class locals, as well as the office workers (could also help to create office leasing momentum downtown, making it a desirable place again and an investment market...which means Sleiman could sell eventually).
Things like the Ferry Building, Chelsea Market, White Provision/Westside Urban Market, Ponce City Market, Warehouse Row, Fanieul Hall, Pike Place Market have literally turned around entire submarkets into some of the most desirable in the country. Think about it...if you own the cornerstone, or at least the key to the cornerstone (ground lease), you have access to the piggy bank and your asset becomes very vital and attractive to a certain class of investor who will pay up for it or securities backed by it (my company, Equity Office, Boston Properties, CIM, Tishman, AEG, Bentall Kennedy, etc).
My company has an asset in Chattanooga we would love to sell to the retail mall REIT based there (CBL). We are about to sign with a retailer that shoudn't even be in that market and turned CBL down at their flagship mall. Maybe Sleiman should do something to catch Regency's eye, these public institutions tend to pay a premium for long-term risk-free cash flow (not that having no credit is risk-free, but I'm seeing more public REITs such as WRI get involved with creative assets in infill/downtown markets).
Captain, That place is not rumored to be on the market, it SOLD a month ago for $178,000 cash.
It was not on the market for long. There was no signage to speak of.
It was on the MLS however. You could make an argument that fair notice was given to all interested parties,
but a couple of huge signs wouldn't have hurt, either.
The Gateway Community Services Center (/a/k/a old Holiday Inn) on Irene St (/the Stockton+I10 exit coming from SanMarco) has added a new building AND removed the ugly 6 foot tall chain link fence previously caging the compound.
Additionally, in LakeShore / Bayview-Lakeside Park across from St.Matthew's church and school, a new medical facility is soon to open.
I hope this ill fitting suburban setback dimensionally speaking is not the model concept coming to the medial facility seeking a Certificate of Appropriateness for Stockton St. just south of the gas stations and aforementioned Gateway Rehab facility..?
Speaking to the recent sale of the nearly 2 acre parcel west of Frederica Pl, King St., and Center Bank, I for one certainly hope to see a "village" more dense than the "town-homes" previously added to the little pocket just north off Lydia St. a few years ago.
This little swath of residential connecting Downing and Lydia holds potentially unique promise for the bustling district if executed correctly, i.e. properly sympathetic facades and small setbacks, something akin to Dancy in Springfield, only much taller.
Possibly a look similar to the south end of McDuff Ave where almost an entire block of rental unitis once had cantilevered balconies.
Porches and balconies and hidden automobiles.
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Lakeshore,+Jacksonville,+FL&hl=en&ll=30.283762,-81.725325&spn=0.000545,0.00071&sll=27.698638,-83.804601&sspn=12.915812,23.269043&oq=lakeshore+jacksonville&t=h&hnear=Lakeshore+South,+Jacksonville,+Duval,+Florida&layer=c&cbll=30.283811,-81.725365&panoid=3VThHkOL9cBh-zrl23QaaQ&cbp=12,264.95,,0,-1.34&z=21
^
1)
and
2 below
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Irene+st.,+near+Stockton+St.,+Jacksonville,+FL&hl=en&ll=30.32122,-81.690323&spn=0.004355,0.005681&sll=30.283485,-81.72548&sspn=0.001096,0.00142&t=h&hq=Irene+st.,&hnear=Stockton+St,+Jacksonville,+Florida&z=18&layer=c&cbll=30.321245,-81.690217&panoid=KtV3GNZGEYvOWvY0WW1Lww&cbp=12,346.67,,0,-2.84
these the places you mentioning?
3)THESE sites (pic of Stockton and Ernest linked below) could either be quite interesting or a total snooze.
time will tell.
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Irene+st.,+near+Stockton+St.,+Jacksonville,+FL&hl=en&ll=30.317331,-81.690018&spn=0.001095,0.00142&sll=30.283485,-81.72548&sspn=0.001096,0.00142&t=h&hq=Irene+st.,&hnear=Stockton+St,+Jacksonville,+Florida&z=20&layer=c&cbll=30.317468,-81.690061&panoid=RCaXHsjbzBNU0r0ICEXavg&cbp=12,294.67,,0,1.02
I have high hopes for the Center State Bank parcels (between Downing and Lydia as well!)
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Lydia+Street,+Jacksonville,+FL&hl=en&ll=30.311367,-81.695876&spn=0.002178,0.00284&sll=30.311366,-81.695559&sspn=0.002178,0.00284&oq=Lydia+Pl&t=h&hnear=Lydia+St,+Jacksonville,+Duval,+Florida&z=19
Quote from: Captain Zissou on December 20, 2012, 01:49:41 PM
Quote from: MusicMan on December 20, 2012, 12:52:57 PM
Lake, Yes it is that really beautiful parcel parallel to King a couple blocks over. I believe the new owner is building new and rehabbing in Riverside-Avondale, so I expect exclusively residential in there.
It sounds like Lake is talking about the piece of the FGB property that is rumored to be for sale. MM, are you talking about that piece or the lot with a culdesac in it with two large buildings already built??
I believe neither. I think he is talking about the piece that goes straight through from Downing to Lydia, because the cul-de-sac property does not hit Downing. It is behind the houses on Frederica, which also puts it behind the two houses on the cul-de-sac (interestingly, the cul-de-sac almost abuts the property line of the Downing St homes, I would think making the street a little shorter to move the cul-de-sac and you could've squeezed one or two more houses back there). From either Downing or Lydia, it just looks like a break in the houses on the street, but the yard goes back to the other street.
If you put a street through there, you'd end up with some pretty small properties. Not sure what kind of multi-family you could get in there, but I feel like that would be a bit out of place (put that on the bank property). If you could get a street permitted back there, you could potentially tie it into the cul-de-sac, remove the cul-de-sac part, and fit more houses in on that property. But, of course, you'd have to own the cul-de-sac property.
I have never typed cul-de-sac so many times.
You would have to put the street on one side or the other of the property. Row houses would work, or a couple 4-8 unit buildings on either side with an open space/parking in the middle.