The foul and deplorable hate group that call themselves the Westboro Baptist Church have managed to find a new and lower level of vile expression. Some of you may have heard of their announced plans to disrupt the services for the babies and adults slaughtered at Sandy Hook Elementary. Another group called "Anonymous" have taken a swipe at WBC and their ugly selves by hacking into the WBC computer systems and making public private information on the members, then publishing a video. I don't know who the hackers group is but in this one instance I have to say....bravo, well done.
I wish I knew how to post the link in a more informative manner, but here is what I can do. Take a look.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57559468-93/hackers-target-westboro-baptist-church-after-newtown-threat/?=fbwl
Ephesians 4:29
New International Version (NIV)
29 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.
HERE'S MY 2 CENTS WORTH...
The REAL Baptists, ought to take these demoniac's out through any legal or spiritual means. Fact is this tiny worthless cult has probably resulted in more people turning away from Church as has any atheist, ET, or scientific theory. These guys are not really Baptists, nor are they following the example of Christ as a witness to others.
QuoteThe Westboro Baptist Church (WBC) is an American, Independent Baptist church known for its extreme ideologies, especially those against homosexuality. The church is widely described as a hate group and is monitored as such by the Anti-Defamation League and Southern Poverty Law Center. It is headed by Fred Phelps and consists primarily of members of his large family; in 2011, the church stated that it had about 40 members. The church is headquartered in a residential neighborhood on the west side of Topeka about three miles west of the Kansas State Capitol. Its first public service was held on the afternoon of November 27, 1955. In addition to anti-gay protests, protests at military funerals, the organization pickets other celebrity funerals and public events that are likely to get it media attention. Protests have also been held demonstrating against Jews and some protests included stomping on the American flag.
The WBC is not affiliated with the two largest Baptist denominations, the Baptist World Alliance or the Southern Baptist Convention, both of which have denounced the WBC over the years. The church describes itself as following Primitive Baptist and Calvinist principles.
Wekipedia
NOT TRUE, I have friends who are military veterans and happen to be Primitive Baptists, this group has little resemblance to anything I've ever witnessed when visiting with them or their churches.
Matthew 22:36-40
New International Version (NIV)
36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?â€
37 Jesus replied: “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.â€
1 Cor 13:13
New International Version(NIV)
And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
I grew up in the Primitive Baptist and while these sick individuals do not appear to resemble any PB church I attended, I will say that there are sects of PB churches that can go to the extreme. I never ran across any this bad thankfully. I applaud any organizations that disrupt this groups efforts to spread their hatred.
Have the mainstream Baptists condemned the Westboro extremists? If not, they are complicit in anything WBC does.
I understand that, Stephen. But they are using the term "Baptist" in their name. I would think that, if they in fact disagree, the more moderate Baptists would want to say, "We don't agree with these people, even if they do call themselves Baptist."
Was also trying to draw a parallel with those who say that mainstream Muslims who don't condemn the actions of the extremist Muslims must agree with them.
I personally think public push back in these situations is key. Hitting them in cyberspace is somehow so perfect for these folks. I was having this same conversation on a friends FB page and I brought up another issue with the group that really pains me and that has to do with the children in their control. It would seem that this group is walking a fine line between pretending at religion and fostering hate which in fact is their mission. Their are laws against physical abuse of children, I can't help but think this hate mongering is tantamount to emotional abuse. Another poster then chimed in that the son of the man who created this cult has affirmed the kids are abused in many ways. I have to wonder why their home state has not gone after this abuse.
I do believe it was stated that it was Fred Phelps adult son who said the kids in the group are abused. He apparently distanced himself from the group. He must be awfully afraid of someone to have not filed a formal complaint if indeed he is aware of abuse. Perhaps he did and it was not followed through. I really don't know but I would hope that if the group is being monitored that someone is looking at the abuse aspect. Perhaps this group "Anonymous" will turn of the heat on that issue as well. I hope it is in their arsenal.
Quote from: Charles Hunter on December 17, 2012, 12:03:30 AM
I understand that, Stephen. But they are using the term "Baptist" in their name. I would think that, if they in fact disagree, the more moderate Baptists would want to say, "We don't agree with these people, even if they do call themselves Baptist."
Was also trying to draw a parallel with those who say that mainstream Muslims who don't condemn the actions of the extremist Muslims must agree with them.
The quote from the article above says that the two major Baptist organizations have denounced Westboro. Anyone can start a church and call it a Baptist church, the baptist organizations do not have control over the word Baptist, it isn't like the Catholic Church where the churches are controlled by a central organization. Both major Baptist organizations are made up of the member churches who are voluntary members of the organization. Each church is still an independent church.
The Westboro "Baptist" Church is nothing more than a bunch of hateful and cruel people who protest certain places in order to elicit a response that they can then file a lawsuit for monetary damages. I'd rank them below your average ambulance chaser lawyer and about even with pond scum when it comes to the type of people they are.
IMO Government should not prosecute parents or take their children away because they teach them their beliefs no matter how offensive those beliefs may be. Minority views should be protected. The best weapon against offensive speech is more speech.
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on December 17, 2012, 10:57:56 AM
IMO Government should not prosecute parents or take their children away because they teach them their beliefs no matter how offensive those beliefs may be. Minority views should be protected. The best weapon against offensive speech is more speech.
I agree with this sentiment UL. Gov't deciding who should say what to their kids is a non starter. In this situation it appears the leaders adult son is claiming physical abuse to the children is going on. In that case there is grounds to look into the abuse and remove the kids if there is justification. The positive in that would mean it would also remove them from the hands of hatemongers in the process.
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on December 17, 2012, 10:57:56 AM
IMO Government should not prosecute parents or take their children away because they teach them their beliefs no matter how offensive those beliefs may be. Minority views should be protected. The best weapon against offensive speech is more speech.
I agree, but then I think mandatory castration should be an option.
^Now what could possibly go wrong with that?
Thank you for pointing out that the two major Baptist assemblies have denounced these hate-mongers. Obviously, I did not read the linked article. I am pleased they have done this.
I take it there hasn't been any new news in regards to the petition(s) to strip Westboro of it's tax exempt status/label them a hate group on Wethepeople.gov
I love the idea of declassifying them as a religious organization, but i'm not sure how realistic it is. 300k+ signatures and still no response from the Whitehouse.
Quote from: David on February 26, 2013, 10:58:17 AM
I take it there hasn't been any new news in regards to the petition(s) to strip Westboro of it's tax exempt status/label them a hate group on Wethepeople.gov
I love the idea of declassifying them as a religious organization, but i'm not sure how realistic it is. 300k+ signatures and still no response from the Whitehouse.
Americans have the right to be stupid. It's called Freedom of speech.
Quote from: stephendare on February 26, 2013, 12:35:08 PM
Quote from: If_I_Loved_you on February 26, 2013, 12:30:46 PM
Quote from: David on February 26, 2013, 10:58:17 AM
I take it there hasn't been any new news in regards to the petition(s) to strip Westboro of it's tax exempt status/label them a hate group on Wethepeople.gov
I love the idea of declassifying them as a religious organization, but i'm not sure how realistic it is. 300k+ signatures and still no response from the Whitehouse.
Americans have the right to be stupid. It's called Freedom of speech.
Huh? The Right to Free Speech doesnt guarantee that. Freedom of assembly and the right to pursue happiness does. ;)
OK But just like John Kerry said today "Americans have the right to be stupid."
Kerry defends liberties, says Americans have "right to be stupid"
Secretary of State John Kerry offered a defense of freedom of speech, religion and thought in the United States on Tuesday telling German students that in America "you have a right to be stupid if you want to be."
"As a country, as a society, we live and breathe the idea of religious freedom and religious tolerance, whatever the religion, and political freedom and political tolerance, whatever the point of view," Kerry told the students in Berlin, the second stop on his inaugural trip as secretary of state.
"People have sometimes wondered about why our Supreme Court allows one group or another to march in a parade even though it's the most provocative thing in the world and they carry signs that are an insult to one group or another," he added.
"The reason is, that's freedom, freedom of speech. In America you have a right to be stupid - if you want to be," he said, prompting laughter. "And you have a right to be disconnected to somebody else if you want to be.
"And we tolerate it. We somehow make it through that. Now, I think that's a virtue. I think that's something worth fighting for," he added. "The important thing is to have the tolerance to say, you know, you can have a different point of view."
Kerry made the comments on his first foreign trip since becoming secretary of state on February 1. After one-night stops in London and Berlin, he visits Paris, Rome, Ankara, Cairo, Riyadh, Abu Dhabi and Doha before returning to Washington on March 6.
While speaking to the students and earlier to U.S. diplomats, Kerry reminisced about the time he spent in Berlin in the 1950s as the intrepid son of an American diplomat and retold a story of sneaking across to East Berlin with his bike.
"I used to have great adventures. My bicycle and I were best friends. And I biked all around this city. I remember biking down Kurfuerstendamm and seeing nothing but rubble. This was in 1954 ... the war was very much still on people's minds," he told the diplomats, referring to West Berlin's main shopping avenue.
"One day, using my diplomatic passport, I biked through the checkpoint right into the east sector and noticed very quickly how dark and unpopulated (it was) and sort of unhappy people looked," he added, saying it left an impression "that hit this 12-year-old kid."
"I kind of felt a foreboding about it and I didn't spend much time. I kind of skedaddled and got back out of there and went home and proudly announced to my parents what I had done and was promptly grounded and had my passport pulled," he added.
"As a 12-year-old, I saw the difference between East and West," he later told the students. "I never made another trip like that. But I have never forgotten it. And now, it's vanished, vanished."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/26/us-usa-kerry-liberties-idUSBRE91P0HJ20130226
QuoteAmericans have the right to be stupid. It's called Freedom of speech
In the WBC's case, they can be stupid all they want. They just need to pay taxes while doing it.
That's not a church.
Quote from: David on February 26, 2013, 03:06:51 PM
QuoteAmericans have the right to be stupid. It's called Freedom of speech
In the WBC's case, they can be stupid all they want. They just need to pay taxes while doing it.
That's not a church.
Maybe the Supreme Court can rule on it in the near future?