Springfield's 9th and Main: Curse or Con?
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/images/springfield_night/DSC_0005.jpg)
How Folio's Man of the Year Became Springfield's Greatest Liability and Conned Hundreds of Thousands of Other People's Money for his Failing Real Estate Empire. Craig Van Horn.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/720
I'm deeply saddened to hear about these events and my heart goes out to the victims. Is there
any progress in getting all the property back?
There's always two sides to an issue, we have now read one
Yeah. I'm interested to hear what Craig Van Horn has to say about this.
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2008, 07:48:07 AM
There's always two sides to an issue, we have now read one
I bet there are at least 10 sides to this story. Unfortunately, I've already reached my reading limit for the day...
It does seem kind of strange how many restaurants have opened there and then quickly closed on bad terms. Maybe Craig should just lease his building like a regular landlord and not be involved in the operation?
I'm not all that interested in hearing what Craig has to say...because actions speak louder than words, and Craig's actions aren't very trustworthy.
Quote from: Lunican on February 22, 2008, 08:31:13 AM
Quote from: whitey on February 22, 2008, 07:48:07 AM
There's always two sides to an issue, we have now read one
I bet there are at least 10 sides to this story. Unfortunately, I've already reached my reading limit for the day...
It does seem kind of strange how many restaurants have opened there and then quickly closed on bad terms. Maybe Craig should just lease his building like a regular landlord and not be involved in the operation?
But Stephen has seen his fair share of closings as well, and all have not been amicable. That's why I think there is a lot more to this than whats been presented here.
I'm starting to wonder if all of Springfield isn't cursed or just a constant victim of unethical opportunists (not just Van Horn or Hionides, but the folks who have stolen my garbage can and lawn mower).
Well now we've seen Stephen's side of the story, Id like to hear what Mr. Van Horn has to say on the subject.
In fact, he should be invited to this fair website to say it.
Because, after all, we are a soundboard for the community. All of the community.
I'm sure there are two or more sides to this story, but it seems that if so many have tried to make this place work and ended up failing, there must be some truth to this story.
I'm exausted. Everything I've read here sounds like more work than it's worth, and frankly, if I were someone wanting to move into Springfield and open-up shop, this whole thing would turn me off...Van Horn, or no Van Horn.
What ever happened to going to a bank, getting a loan, and buying a building, doing your own demo/construction with permits from the city, and making or breaking on your own? Or, if you are leasing, what happened to getting a real-estate attorney or property manager to sit down at the table with you, go over the lease agreements, get signatures and then pay your monthly due every month and keep in compliance with the terms of the agreement? If you or the other party are in violation, you take them to court. It only costs a couple of hundred bucks to file a small claims suit against someone (if that).
In my opinion, this whole scenario (all parties involved) has 'shady' written all over it. It sounds like a case of several people wanting in on some action with the least effort possible put forth. And with all the "partners" involved in every business opened, it's a wonder that anyone can even keep the events straight at all!
I think it would be in the best interest of Springfield for the properties to be sold outright to someone who has no history with the buildings, property owner, or city. Let a fresh-minded, hopeful, positive and optimistic person have a chance at success. Springfield struggles enough with appearances as it is, the community certainly doesn't need a store-front changing hands every other month with publicized squabbles.
Who is William Stephen Griffin and does anyone need an attorney to help oversee or discuss any civil complaints? I don't mind taking a look pro bono to start.
I see that a pro se complaint was filed against Van Horn and Owens on 2/12/08, but I haven't gone to the courthouse to look at it. It doesn't appear that defendants have been served yet. Curious stuff.
Quote from: Colony on February 22, 2008, 11:24:29 AM
Who is William Stephen Griffin and does anyone need an attorney to help oversee or discuss any civil complaints? I don't mind taking a look pro bono to start.
I see that a pro se complaint was filed against Van Horn and Owens on 2/12/08, but I haven't gone to the courthouse to look at it. It doesn't appear that defendants have been served yet. Curious stuff.
Who are you? I might need help!
go to colonyjax.blogspot.com for info and email address then feel free to drop me a note. i am a concerned springfielder with a law license (three actually) and live just steps from 9th and main.
I really don't care if Craig Van Horn, turns out to be my fairy god-mother and Stephendare the son of old Joe Banana's (Hey you did say he was a "Made Man", how many know what THAT means?). I'm more concerned with my waist line. All the legal BS aside, now where in the hell do we go for those soups and that Southwestern Sandwich?
Hey Stephen, I have my hands on an old NYC Subway car that would make a most cool restaurant...or interior room in a restaurant... anyone interested?
Ocklawaha
This is scary. But, what is done in the dark shall come to light eventually.
Stephen really hit it on the head...The shame of it all is that if it weren't for all of this Springfield could be booming with retail and restaurants.
Hopefully through all of this and hearing all of this we can still become the retail destination that this neighborhood deserves!
all you restaurant people need to open up in Brooklyn ... we have to go up into 5pts to get anything to eat. And even then it is the same old same old ....
Hello to all,
I have to say that I was slightly surprised to hear about this article today. As so many of us know, this town is so much smaller than one may realize. I will neither confirm nor deny the "quotes" made in this article. The conversation I had with the individual who apparently wrote the article were between that person and myself and I was not made aware that anything I may or may not have said or confirmed were for publication. That being said, all my best to those who still hold hope for the Springfield area. I am very happy in my new life. The Springfield chapter of my life is closed. A personal note to all those who thrive on "drama"; concentrate on your own lives and not those of others. You just may find your own has more interest than you thought. My best to all. "What goes around, comes around".
Thank you Stephen!
Indeed, indeed.
Ock - Do you really have this (subway car) for sale? How is it transportable? The wheels were turning last night with some buds............
blizz01, if you want to see it, its in a fenced in lot on Ionia Street, just a half block north of 8th Street (on the left), in Springfield.
Ock, talk with the city to see if it can be placed in the pocket park on Main. then open the restaurant. many trains as restaurants all over, but this is one of my favorites -- best greasy, cheesy chili in the west..
http://www.carneytrain.com/
Who?
As someone who has lived less than half a block from 9th and main since its inception, I was aghast when justin and dave were railroaded out. Over 2 years they had built a perfect meeting place for people in the neighborhood, the food was fairly good, and there were plenty of things going on in the "theater", (art shows, plays, bands -think morrison pierce, kurt polkey, mactruque, etc.) thanks to jessica (if anyone remembers her). I was disgusted by what transpired between craig, justin and dave, and by the loss of a great community resource. After a period of ignoring everything up there out of loyalty to justin and dave, I tried to support a few of the restaurants that followed in their wake, but was wary. Nosh was fantastic, and that the chef was also trying to support and bring in indie music was a huge plus. unfortunately, short-lived and screwed again. We were thrilled to hear that the couple from crush was taking over, but they were gone even quicker. I have talked to many of the people in this article, as well as others who have had dealings with craig, and the consensus is that craig will screw you over faster than you can say bankruptcy. We had a great next door neighbor for years in the house between our house and 9th and main - perfect tenent, quiet, friendly, smart, educated, and didn't seem to mind being right next door to live bands which were often quite loud and exuberant. He expressed his interest in buying the property from craig on several occasions and was shot down because craig wanted an exorbitant price for a decaying property which is bording on, if not outright decrepit. Personally, I would like to see craig lose 9th and Main in a settlement and for it to become the place it once was, or someplace even better. Unfortunately, Steven, I assumed boomtown would be there for a while, and I put off coming up there out of complaceny (and the fact that I love to cook and we rarely go out to eat.) When you open up your new digs, you can count on our support. We will never forget the kindness you and John showed us when we first moved to springfield, and the awesome times we have had in the past at Boomtown :D
Very interesting story. My only observation on the actual restaurant is that, during my very brief time living downtown, I went to 9th and Main once because you couldn't count on it being open consistently. You're never going to build a customer base if they don't know from one day to the next if you're going to be open. I don't think it has ever been managed well, by Van Horn or anyone else.
The story seems set out pretty well, with supporting quotes and facts. If the trail of failure following Van Horn is to be believed, though, then why only now is someone seeking legal retribution against him? Is he a slime-ball? Possibly. But one of these supposed "contracts" has got to stand up in a court of law. Overall the tone of this story seems to be people making poor decisions to enter business agreements with Van Horn.
Hopefully tales of woe such as this will serve as a wakeup call to the various business-people, investors, and organizations directing the revitalization of Springfield. These people can't seem to pull their collective heads out of their behinds long enough to realize they're embarassing themselves and the community they represent. How can you expect the City to take you seriously when your own actions don't command respect?
i love Folio Weekly!!!
???
Does anyone know if the business at 1610 N. Main St. is still for sale? If so, does anyone know who the realty company is? Despite all of the arguments between the local business owners, I have always wanted to own a business in this area.
Long Live BOOMTOWN and down with VAN HORN
Quote from: Capricorn on April 08, 2008, 12:10:05 PM
???
Does anyone know if the business at 1610 N. Main St. is still for sale? If so, does anyone know who the realty company is? Despite all of the arguments between the local business owners, I have always wanted to own a business in this area.
Long Live BOOMTOWN and down with VAN HORN
Give SPAR (Springfield Preservation and Restoration) Council's offices a call. They should be able to give you detailed information.
SPAR: 904-353-7727
I deleted my post. I thought better of it. No need to stick my nose under that tent. :)
Quote from: Jimmy on April 09, 2008, 11:41:36 AM
I deleted my post. I thought better of it. No need to stick my nose under that tent. :)
Same here.
I didn't post, but didn't want to be left out. And I really don't like sticking my nose under tents either... (I don't think I do).
Dear Capricorn,
Pollard House (1610 N. Main Street) is for sale (or rent) as is, by owners. Please contact ch9mil@aol.com. It is zoned commercial/residential. As you might know, the bottom floor was a restaurant, and the kitchen equipment is still there, should that enter in your plans. I have at your disposition two inspections, one of which noted the lack of air conditioning/ cenrtral heating, some minor problems with the electrical code and some isolated cases of wood-rot, all of which have been resolved (as noted in the second one). In any case you will want to do your own inspection, for which your access will be guaranteed by getting in touch with our secretary, Ms. Francesca Ball at ftbjax@comcast. net.
I am most pleased that Stephen and John (hi guys - Charles and Imma love you) are back in the hood. Love also (going on 4 decades) to Justin and David. As for Craig and the LOLAS, by their works shall ye know them.
What's the asking price?
Dear thelakelander,
Thanks for your interest. Please get in touch with me at ch9mil@aol.com. All the best from
Charles
well since I seem to be the only one not posting on this rather interesting bit of commentary, i'll add a related, albeit quite out of place bit of my own....
what are these rumors about both metro and park place being shuttered by the state for various and assorted violations of some sort? some kind of b-ass-ackwards form of grade school vengeance, strange coincidences (HA) or just misinterpretations of the tin-cup telephones that are the jacksonville club circuit?
it had a bit of relevance as robert and david were mentioned in regards to the whole tenant dispute fiasco...
this whole thread paints a rather accurate picture of jacksonville commercial deals over the last half century; very-GOB, dimly lit poker room, back-door-finagling to rankle the last coins out of an old couch...
Its probably best for Springfield that 9th & Main is now out of CVH hands. This creates the opportunity for another group to come in. Btw, I heard that a Middle Eastern restaurant is going into the old Main Street Bakery space. The building will also get a new paint job. However, it won't happen until that side of Main Street is complete.
The owner mentioned he wanted to target the lunch crowd for the most part. He's shooting to start fixing the place up sometime in December. This is when that side of Main Street is supposed to be complete.
WHOOOO HOOOO!!!!!
That is awesome lake I hope it happens!
It would be great for Springfield to see something finally work in that space.
I just ask...no, I beg... for good food, good staff, and constant hours.
Btw, the former Draper Studios space at 8th & Pearl has been purchased. The new owner's plan is to turn the space into an art gallery with a limited food menu (ex. serving sandwiches while people purchase artwork). Right now, I don't know when this new gallery will open.
Also great news for the neighborhood. Thanks for the update, Lakelander.
Has the foreclosure process worked itself out already? From what I understand, it looks like the city will end up with the 9th & Main space.
Several lis pendens, foreclosures, and a delay for auction come up on adjacent parcels under the same umbrella of ownership. There is an LP from April on the 9th & Main property (legal description: L 9, 10 B 51 Springfield), but from only a cursory and quick scan of property descriptors, no other judgments or actions tied to that particular property.
I, too, heard the rumor of the city ending up with the corner property. Any verified news?
I'd love to see something done with these spaces, but the economy is tough for new business starts.
Van Horn for Mayor!!!!!
When that happens who pays the taxes on the property? Is that the bank or lender or is it the city or does the tax revenue just not come in to the coffers?
Where the hell have you been Gatorback? Damn, I've missed your insightful comments on mass transit too! Good to see your posting.
PEACE OUT MAN!
OCKLAWAHA
I miss this place :( LOVED the karaoke and the people there.
Quote from: stephendare on January 08, 2010, 04:53:51 PM
Did 9th and Main go up on the auction block?
Apparently the city's RFP deadline was last month. The only offer was from the TSI club, but it was for less than the "minimum bid" price of $328,000. Not sure if the city can still accept the lower bid, or will put out another RFP.