What would you tell Mayor Brown if he asked what we need to do to attract and retain young professionals in this city?
I know what I think, please share your thoughts. :)
1) adopt the equal rights ordinance and provide protection equally for whoever loves whomever else.
2) context sensitive street redesign, especially in ALL areas where it can be as simple as repainting the road deck.
2) re-boost the sidewalk dollars back up to where they were in years past.
Our pedestrian connections are sorely LACKING
3) RIDE THE BUS AND SKYWAY TO AND FROM HIS OFFICE EVERYDAY FOR THE REST OF HIS TERM. with or without entourage.
4) Permanently SHELVE any ideas regarding the reintroduction of a moratorium on the mobility fee.
5) Attend BPAC meetings
6) familiarize himself with the 2035 LRTP
7) Attend monthly Sherriffs walks
8) maybe DON't sell JEA
9) get to know Hogans Creek and how simple compatible insect, all organic gardening is, and assist in the implementation of permaculture as pertains to any new construction and redevelopment.
10)_______________
Join in the conversation
Before making any list of demands or improvements that wouldn't be taken seriously anyway, I'd simply tell him to "shit or get off the pot". Meaning, either start taking some stands on things, keep the promises you made, get out there & be seen, be your city's loudest advocate, etc.
Or, resign & take half of this town's good ol boy "leadership" with you.
Good thoughts, spence. Speaking generally then, it seems connectivity, walkability, urban design and transit are the recurring theme? Equality, safety, education and maximizing our natural assets are also important. Is this true for all citizens and not just young professionals? Is glitz and glamour useful? What is BPAC?
Bicylce Pedestrian Advisory Committee (BPAC).
As I see it, there are a few very obvious things that could make this city more attractive. In no specific order:
- The Equal Rights Ordinance needs to be passed. Not because anything in it transcends the Stunningly Obvious Rules By Which We All Typically Interact, but because it's passage is a "litmus test" as to whether our City Council and Mayor have their heads up their asses or not. Which is a nice segue to my next point..
- We need to elect leaders who do not have their heads up their asses. Seriously, Redman? Kim Daniels? Hell, Alvin Brown??? These are the best and brightest in our city?? If that's the case, no wonder we wallow in mediocrity.
- Downtown needs to be made livable. I do it, but it's a huge hassle. A few more shopping and "off hour" eating options (try to eat anything at 8:00 sunday morning without going over a bridge or to Springfield) would go a long way.
- Speaking of going a long way; How about making the Skyway go someplace? Extend that sucker down to 5 Points, The Stadium, San Marco, and Springfield. I mean, we've got the bastard, lets use it.
- I continue to advocate for the demolition of at least the Old Courthouse, and preferably the annex as well, and replacing them with a beautiful riverfront park *here in the part of downtown where people actually go*. It's long been said that we need to connect the city and the riverfront more cohesively, including discussions of gutting the center of The Landing to do so.. A park would do that while creating a space that would attract people to the city core in general.
- The biggest "attractor" though, has to be Good Paying Jobs. It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that Ching. Bring the jobs here, and the rest works itself out.
Can some of you define "young professionals" for me? I an interested in how individuals view the term and why the importance of drawing young professionals? This is a question geared toward conversation and understanding. Not a challenge. lol For instance, what is young? Under 20, under 30, under forty and what constitutes a "professional"? What do you see "young professionals" bringing to a community that others cannot?
Quote from: fsujax on December 10, 2012, 04:22:39 PM
Bicylce Pedestrian Advisory Committee (BPAC).
LMAO if this is truly an effort at attracting young professionals.
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on December 10, 2012, 04:38:36 PM
Can some of you define "young professionals" for me? I an interested in how individuals view the term and why the importance of drawing young professionals? This is a question geared toward conversation and understanding. Not a challenge. lol For instance, what is young? Under 20, under 30, under forty and what constitutes a "professional"? What do you see "young professionals" bringing to a community that others cannot?
Disposable income.
That is true Josh but there are a bunch of older folks with disposable income as well. Can you add some more specifics? For instance would it be how the younger folks spend their disposable income that makes them staying in Jacksonville attractive?
^Because young professionals typically spend their money on things such as restaurants, bars, entertainment etc. at a higher rate than older people with disposable income.
I also think that it is important to attract (and retain) young professionals because it lays the foundation for future leaders in the City. This is something Jax desperately needs right now- fresh leadership. We've been stuck for too long being run by the old guard. Getting more young professionals here will help to cultivate that.
I would agree Cline and Josh with what you have shared and thank you for engaging the conversation. Tell me in your view where is the cut off date for young and what should ones employment be that makes them a "professional"? Again, I have a reason for asking and it goes to overall understanding of how some view the issue and what can indeed be done to "attract" young professionals.
A young professional's age range is roughly 20 to 40-45. Here is wikipedia's definition:
QuoteThe term young professional generally refers to a young person not in school who is employed in a profession or white-collar occupation. The meaning may be ambiguous[1] and has evolved from its original narrow meaning of a young person in a professional field.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_professional
I am glad to see the age limits seem to have gone up Ennis. Back in my day there was a saying about not trusting "anyone over thirty", which was quite a low age ceiling. ;)
The reason I ask for clarification on the age that is considered young and what the criterion for professional is based upon is because of what time and experience has shown me. For instance one can be of relatively young biological age and still be a "stodgy stick in the mud". One can also be of advanced physical age and still be "vibrant of mind and creative in thought", say perhaps like a Richard Branson. One can be well educated and professional and still not have the skills or money to set in motion an upward trend in a community. I will grant that people who are physically young are generally much more active socially in a modern context, i.e. frequenting trendy bars and restaurants (cause they have the energy) and ability to drop money on clothing, cars and tech gadgets although these tendencies are not exclusive to them. I will also acknowledge that one of the strengths of youth is the willingness to boldly try new things and enterprises along with the fact that they have not been fooled into thinking their ideas are impossible. They remain excited with all the potential of life, which is how it should be. If we look toward Europe and the many walkable communities, vibrant towns and urban cores we can site more than a few examples of situations where a communities draw is not in it's youth but its ethnicity and age, as well as it's financial well being. So is youthful draw the entire answer?
Make no mistake, the advantages of biological youth are many. When one talks about "young professionals" and the energy they can bring to a community I wonder if the thought that attracting and keeping them will bring about deep and long lasting change is in fact accurate. Especially when it comes to the fabric our own community unless the influx of new energy comes in a new way that is non threatening and understandable to everyone. Keep in mind that many a young professional will end up getting married begin a family and ultimately settle down.
When we think about future leadership, it is very possible that a youthful leader can come from a blue collar background and have the drive, understanding and interest to move a community forward based in the depth of their own life struggles and experiences. Youth and young families are what gives a community the ability to move forward and grow. They all do not need to be "professionals" to do so. Perhaps young professionals should include folks from a broader career background.
The picture I get when I hear of drawing "young professionals" is one that seems to have a greater focus on the core or urban development (correct me if I am wrong). If that is the case, simply drawing more young professionals to the core will not jump start Jacksonville because our problems are with our leadership, city policies, community attitudes and the failure to understand that we are still a "southern town" with old school attitudes. It is my feeling that when we begin to craft a future for Jacksonville that blends the old with the new, we might be on to something that is workable. But we have to change our politics and politicians first!
I believe that young folks and "professionals" need to take a very serious stake in the politics of our town and while doing so they should tap into the creative and open minded political players who have been around for a while for input and advice, because young professionals are on both sides of the political isle and in Jacksonville political electability is the cog on which this city will ultimately turn. IMO I would also point out that the leadership has remained republican and ask that leadership moved us forward? (Yes Alvin is a Dem of record but he is greatly influenced by the Republican money who put him in office.)
It has been my experience that "Free Thinkers" are the forward movers and believe me they are not all rich. Artists, poets, intellectuals, gays and a broad spectrum of nationalities is what makes a community really thrive. But the blossoming of things like ethnic communities, creative enclaves and developing intellectual communities cannot really be created but must be born of their own accord and blossom on their own. This will take a renewed effort and decisive energy behind this notion of human rights and fairness in our town because when thinking opens up, so will greater opportunity. IMO
The key to allowing these things to happen is to be found in our leadership and city policies. It is there the greatest focus should go and it is there the changes must be made. The things like transportation, walkable neighborhoods, positive growth all are filtered through the lens of current leadership and it's not working for us the way it should.
It is my view that we need to rethink how we view our city and how we speak about it and "MEDIA" is a big player in this regard. Jacksonville is not just a podunk town, but if you watch the news you often see media present us in that fashion by doing everything from featuring story lines that are more negative than forward thinking and somehow managing to find the most illiterate among us to interview for comment. lol We have plenty to be proud of here that needs to be shared and it will take all ages to make that known to the nation and world.
Note* Higher education of our youth is also key to our growth and keeping them here once educated is also important.
I think you've all made great suggestions; but you don't attract young professionals, you attract companies that bring the jobs that attract young professionals. Get the companies and they will attract the young professionals.
What are those companies in your view downtown jag and what is keeping them from coming here? The more clearly we can all understand this issue the more able we will be to deal with it and make necessary changes.
Would you perhaps agree that a more open government model that welcomes a variety of ethnic backgrounds as well as individuals with differing lifestyles would also draw more people with positive ideas as an avenue towards positive changes?
For instance the many small ethic areas in larger urban centers like Toronto's little China and little Italy. That sort of thing brings great interest and charm to an area as well as viability.
Quote from: downtownjag on December 10, 2012, 07:04:29 PM
I think you've all made great suggestions; but you don't attract young professionals, you attract companies that bring the jobs that attract young professionals. Get the companies and they will attract the young professionals.
That's the old way of doing things. The trends have changed. Today's high skilled worker is just as likely to start their own company in some place that they want to be, than looking to get hired at the local steel mill or home-based fortune 500 company.
Many companies now go where the talent is or where the talent they seek to higher or feed off, desires to live. Over the last decade or so, many cities have started to invest in enhancing their quality of living, which in turn, tends to attract high skilled and educated entrepreneurs. Reliable mass transit, mixed-use neighborhoods, walkable communities, well maintained public and recreational spaces, good schools, embracing diversity, personal innovation/creativity, etc. are examples of quality-of-life public investments that are luring the workforce and companies these days. Being cheap just to lure jobs work better if all you desire locally is low skill, low pay economic development.
I would agree Ennis, but does it not then follow that we need serious changes to our leadership? I am thinking where young professionals can do a lot of good is to put their energy and dollars into changing our outdated, cumbersome and in many ways close minded local political landscape. Perhaps doing that will provide needed changes in attitudes and policies to help put positive, well planned growth into action and nurture those ideas and budding developments and areas that make a city special. For starters, this city could use the fee money they get from us for storm water for infrastructure and not paying bills. This again goes back to the behavior of our elected officials. Jacksonville's political landscape is long overdue for a change.
^I doubt we'll be able to attract many outsiders to want to put up with the political landscape of a community and city that they may have no ties to and one that may not offer them the type of atmosphere they may desire. Thus, if we want better political leadership, its going to be up to many of us to sacrifice and lead such a movement.
I completely agree Ennis. I have the know how to do much of it but no longer have the physical strength to do the canvassing, etc, but I sure can offer insight and research to help. We need to begin there and get darn serious about it.
The right political environment and concentration of brewpubs and bars and sushi places is important, no doubt, but so is the actual talent pool. Some of the coolest, most progressive cities in America still have worse than average economies and unemployment issues, lack of educated talent pool, etc etc.
Jacksonville can be cool, which can only help and parts of Jax are already kinda cool, but the people are still not educated enough to attract most high-level jobs. What I do, for example, is not even offered in Jax, and I'm just an analyst (though the analysts at my firm are mostly Wharton and Penn grads and what we do is at a higher level than private equity firms/fund syndicators/hedge funds in Jax [are there any?]).
It really almost makes the entirety of the difference by having a world-class university or two or three right at your doorstep.
Simms, I hear you but am also thinking that we have enough educated and bright people to get started in a positive direction and what inhibits the city most is an archaic mind set in city hall that makes all levels of getting business done difficult. If we can change the stodgy, stand in the way methodology and allow positive change to begin, we can start keeping our own graduates in town and hopefully draw from other areas. We have an excellent location in Jacksonville with a super nice climate. That alone should begin to draw the right folks if they see the door to opportunity here is open and not being held open just a crack by some backward thinking political landscape. I do see change on the horizon, but we as a community must make it happen. I think Shad Khan's investment in our team and community was a positive sign. He is a smart guy and sees the potential here and also knows it won't happen overnight but will in time. For ages and ages our city funding has found it's way into the pockets of companies and enterprises that were and are connected to the "good old boy" way of doing business. As crass as this may sound, many of the good old boys will not be here that much longer, so the young folk along with the young thinkers need to lay the groundwork for a new political landscape. If not we will see more of a supposed "new face" or "new direction" as the city bought into with Alvin Brown who is just another face of the same old power structure. Stopping the merry-go-round of old political games will take revelation and education. Perhaps Jacksonville is ready to face this reality and move away from it to a viable and fair system.
Quote from: thelakelander on December 10, 2012, 07:35:04 PM
Quote from: downtownjag on December 10, 2012, 07:04:29 PM
I think you've all made great suggestions; but you don't attract young professionals, you attract companies that bring the jobs that attract young professionals. Get the companies and they will attract the young professionals.
That's the old way of doing things. The trends have changed. Today's high skilled worker is just as likely to start their own company in some place that they want to be, than looking to get hired at the local steel mill or home-based fortune 500 company.
Many companies now go where the talent is or where the talent they seek to higher or feed off, desires to live. Over the last decade or so, many cities have started to invest in enhancing their quality of living, which in turn, tends to attract high skilled and educated entrepreneurs. Reliable mass transit, mixed-use neighborhoods, walkable communities, well maintained public and recreational spaces, good schools, embracing diversity, personal innovation/creativity, etc. are examples of quality-of-life public investments that are luring the workforce and companies these days. Being cheap just to lure jobs work better if all you desire locally is low skill, low pay economic development.
I see your point; and I think it's a chicken or egg scenario. Arguments can be made for both cases, but I believe you can most directly influence the end result we all desire by offering incentives to the companies that attract the talent. Most of my college friends left after school not because they didn't like Jax; but because the entry level, young professional jobs weren't available here. Many didn't want to leave, but couldn't find work.
Downtown, what types of jobs would those be? Tech, business, that sort of thing?
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on December 10, 2012, 07:10:15 PM
What are those companies in your view downtown jag and what is keeping them from coming here? The more clearly we can all understand this issue the more able we will be to deal with it and make necessary changes.
Would you perhaps agree that a more open government model that welcomes a variety of ethnic backgrounds as well as individuals with differing lifestyles would also draw more people with positive ideas as an avenue towards positive changes?
For instance the many small ethic areas in larger urban centers like Toronto's little China and little Italy. That sort of thing brings great interest and charm to an area as well as viability.
I don't know that I can point to specific companies; but by industry, healthcare, IT, aviation, finance & insurance. I actually believe the city has made major advances lately, especially trimming the incentive approval timeline from 8 weeks to 2. The mayor is very accessible if there's a client that wants to feel loved. I think the perception, although very rapidly changing, that Jax is a tertiary market, has hindered us for years. Again, I feel this is changing very quickly as more and more companies "near-source" in Jax.
I believe the more responsibly progressive we are; the better off we will be; in response to your comments about equality. Thanks for asking!
Quote from: downtownjag on December 10, 2012, 08:41:24 PMI see your point; and I think it's a chicken or egg scenario. Arguments can be made for both cases, but I believe you can most directly influence the end result we all desire by offering incentives to the companies that attract the talent. Most of my college friends left after school not because they didn't like Jax; but because the entry level, young professional jobs weren't available here. Many didn't want to leave, but couldn't find work.
^But every city plays the incentives game. Jax can't really get any cheaper than it already is. Plus, many companies don't go where there isn't already a critical mass of workers with the type of skills they need. At some point, we've got to start factoring in the roll quality of life plays.
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on December 10, 2012, 08:50:33 PM
Downtown, what types of jobs would those be? Tech, business, that sort of thing?
Downtown? Naturally, all the jobs you can get are good. However, if you really want something sustainable long term, strive to get things that won't pick up and leave at the drop of a dime. With that said, utilize downtown's assets for organic economic growth. Considering the number of medical facilities, healthcare should be at the top of that list. However, downtown is centrally located, sits at a major railroad and telecommunications junction, and there's a big river flowing through it. While many focus on white collar job growth, there are possible blue collar opportunities with our logistics and maritime assets.
Quote from: thelakelander on December 10, 2012, 09:02:02 PM
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on December 10, 2012, 08:50:33 PM
Downtown, what types of jobs would those be? Tech, business, that sort of thing?
Downtown? Naturally, all the jobs you can get are good. However, if you really want something sustainable long term, strive to get things that won't pick up and leave at the drop of a dime. With that said, utilize downtown's assets for organic economic growth. Considering the number of medical facilities, healthcare should be at the top of that list. However, downtown is centrally located, sits at a major railroad and telecommunications junction, and there's a big river flowing through it. While many focus on white collar job growth, there are possible blue collar opportunities with our logistics and maritime assets.
LOL, I think she was addressing me
No Stephen I am not. I have generally left this sort of thing to folks like you here on Metro Jacksonville, but the recent dust up in Avondale got me thinking about the bigger picture and how those same attitudes along with politics and a problematic system at city hall are stifling positive growth.
Heathcare as a target area is a good one and should be pursued. I also think there is much in the way of blue collar that can bring stability and help grow the white collar sector.
I love hearing all the input and believe that going over old ground with fresh eyes and attitudes can lead to rethinking the situations facing the city and hopefully some positive, workable new ideas about growth, drawing young folks and the like.
Quote from: thelakelander on December 10, 2012, 08:55:44 PM
Quote from: downtownjag on December 10, 2012, 08:41:24 PMI see your point; and I think it's a chicken or egg scenario. Arguments can be made for both cases, but I believe you can most directly influence the end result we all desire by offering incentives to the companies that attract the talent. Most of my college friends left after school not because they didn't like Jax; but because the entry level, young professional jobs weren't available here. Many didn't want to leave, but couldn't find work.
^But every city plays the incentives game. Jax can't really get any cheaper than it already is. Plus, many companies don't go where there isn't already a critical mass of workers with the type of skills they need. At some point, we've got to start factoring in the roll quality of life plays.
Yes, but we can make it an easier decision with company execs. I personally haven't had an experience where quality of life was cited. Sure, we can be more progressive. I think we have enough evidence in many sectors to substantiate the claim that we have the talent pool for many industries. Again, I agree that there are quality of life issues that can be improved that would make us more desirable to "talent" but I don't believe said talent moves to town before he/she is offered a job.
Ennis does make a good point about incentives. Other cities are doing the same thing and some are in the position to offer more than we can. So what would the "package" be that would create interest, ie, some financial incentives along with ______?
Quote from: downtownjag on December 10, 2012, 09:13:06 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on December 10, 2012, 08:55:44 PM
Quote from: downtownjag on December 10, 2012, 08:41:24 PMI see your point; and I think it's a chicken or egg scenario. Arguments can be made for both cases, but I believe you can most directly influence the end result we all desire by offering incentives to the companies that attract the talent. Most of my college friends left after school not because they didn't like Jax; but because the entry level, young professional jobs weren't available here. Many didn't want to leave, but couldn't find work.
^But every city plays the incentives game. Jax can't really get any cheaper than it already is. Plus, many companies don't go where there isn't already a critical mass of workers with the type of skills they need. At some point, we've got to start factoring in the roll quality of life plays.
Yes, but we can make it an easier decision with company execs. I personally haven't had an experience where quality of life was cited. Sure, we can be more progressive. I think we have enough evidence in many sectors to substantiate the claim that we have the talent pool for many industries. Again, I agree that there are quality of life issues that can be improved that would make us more desirable to "talent" but I don't believe said talent moves to town before he/she is offered a job.
I've come across several. Over the last couple of years, I've even had two in my extended family do it. Their choices were Savannah and Raleigh. Another cousin moved to Norfolk for a few years because she liked the atmosphere of some of the urban waterfront neighborhoods but relocated to Dallas about a year later. I considered DC and New Orleans back in 2008 but decided to stick around in Jax.
^Btw, Oklahoma City started investing in itself after United Airlines selected Indianapolis over them in the 1990s. The airline told Oklahoma City officials that Indianapolis won because it offered a superior quality of life and that they couldn't see employees living in Oklahoma City.
Quote from: thelakelander on December 10, 2012, 09:23:27 PM
Quote from: downtownjag on December 10, 2012, 09:13:06 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on December 10, 2012, 08:55:44 PM
Quote from: downtownjag on December 10, 2012, 08:41:24 PMI see your point; and I think it's a chicken or egg scenario. Arguments can be made for both cases, but I believe you can most directly influence the end result we all desire by offering incentives to the companies that attract the talent. Most of my college friends left after school not because they didn't like Jax; but because the entry level, young professional jobs weren't available here. Many didn't want to leave, but couldn't find work.
^But every city plays the incentives game. Jax can't really get any cheaper than it already is. Plus, many companies don't go where there isn't already a critical mass of workers with the type of skills they need. At some point, we've got to start factoring in the roll quality of life plays.
Yes, but we can make it an easier decision with company execs. I personally haven't had an experience where quality of life was cited. Sure, we can be more progressive. I think we have enough evidence in many sectors to substantiate the claim that we have the talent pool for many industries. Again, I agree that there are quality of life issues that can be improved that would make us more desirable to "talent" but I don't believe said talent moves to town before he/she is offered a job.
I've come across several. Over the last couple of years, I've even had two in my extended family do it. Their choices were Savannah and Raleigh. Another cousin moved to Norfolk for a few years because she liked the atmosphere of some of the urban waterfront neighborhoods but relocated to Dallas about a year later. I considered DC and New Orleans back in 2008 but decided to stick around in Jax.
Ok Lake, are the people you cited "young" professionals? If so, please define young. I'm referring to the recent college graduate who can't afford to pick cities but needs a job.
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on December 10, 2012, 09:15:44 PM
Ennis does make a good point about incentives. Other cities are doing the same thing and some are in the position to offer more than we can. So what would the "package" be that would create interest, ie, some financial incentives along with ______?
The Uselessness of Economic Development Incentives (http://www.theatlanticcities.com/jobs-and-economy/2012/12/uselessness-economic-development-incentives/4081/)Our biggest takeaway: there is virtually no association between economic development incentives and any measure of economic performance. We found no statistically significant association between economic development incentives per capita and average wages or incomes; none between incentives and college grads or knowledge workers; and none between incentives and the state unemployment rate. The scatter-graph above illustrates the lack of any relationship between incentives per capita and wages.
The only statistically significant association we find is between incentives and the poverty rate. This is in line with other research by Robert Greenbaum and Daniele Bondonio, which finds economic development incentives to be more likely in poorer, more economically disadvantaged communities, especially those that have faced recent economic decline.
Our findings are consistent with the broad body of research on incentives. A detailed 2002 study, published in the Journal of Regional Science [PDF] of more than 350 companies that received incentives, found incentives had a negative effect on these companies's ability to create jobs. Using detailed statistical models to control for a wide variety of factors, the study found that companies that received incentives expanded more slowly than others, and worse yet that overall effect of incentives was a reduction of 10.5 jobs per establishment. Incentives had their biggest effect by far not on actual jobs, but on "announced growth," finding that the average business receiving incentives overestimated its future employment by 28.5 jobs.
http://www.theatlanticcities.com/jobs-and-economy/2012/12/uselessness-economic-development-incentives/4081/
Interesting JFmann. What is your take on this information? I guess I am hoping that between several minds we can define a road to head down in Jacksonville that might actually speak to positive growth. Poverty here is an issue, but I also see the continued poverty here intertwined with two things which are education level and politics. Politicians in this community who won office on pledges of improving their community (especially in depressed areas) have improved their personal standing and wealth over those they were elected to represent, that in turn goes back to education or lack there of.
Quote from: downtownjag on December 10, 2012, 09:39:45 PMOk Lake, are the people you cited "young" professionals? If so, please define young. I'm referring to the recent college graduate who can't afford to pick cities but needs a job.
Most define the age of young professionals with a pretty wide range (20-45). In my case and my examples, we're all over 30.
I will do it Stephen. Thanks for the heads up.
Jacksonville should strive to be a category killer in one area. Riskier in terms of cycles, but will make the city more competitive and in a way more stable. I see Jacksonville having the potential to be a real leader in the Southeast and maybe nationally in terms of defense contract work, insurance since we still have a foothold there, and maybe media/telecom since the only other city in the SE with a major media/telecom industry is Atlanta and often there is room for more (maybe not with that industry, who knows).
Just by observation, outside of the largest and most regionally dominant cities in America such as NYC, Philadelphia, Chicago, Minneapolis, Atlanta, Denver, and Dallas, most cities dominate 1-2, maybe 3 industries depending on size.
Even Houston is really just a 2 industry town: energy (arguably the capital of the universe in that regard) and healthcare (also arguably the capital of the universe in that regard with TMC).
Los Angeles is a big city with many industries, but the economy there seems dominated by two in particular: entertainment and distribution.
Within the south just by itself, most industries are already focused in 1-2-3 cities and have little presence in the others. There are very few industry "holes" if you will, and so limited growth potential.
As I see it, any company that's currently in Jax can up and leave at any moment without a blink of an eye. Aside from incentives and cost of doing business, and the fact that there are 1 million people in the area that need to be served, there's no other reason for being in Jax. What keeps companies in the city now only goes so far.
Defense contract work: I believe if you exclude DC and Norfolk, Charleston and Hunstville are Jacksonville's only real potential competitors here. Jacksonville already has the infrastructure in place: port, naval base, one of the largest naval air stations, and a history of serving as HQ or base of operations for major defense contractors. Of course Charleston has bases and Boeing, and Huntsville has space program and Redding, but both are much smaller.
Insurance...sure the insurance arms of the major banks are all regionally based in Atlanta, along with regional HQ of most domestic banks, but where else is there an insurance presence in the south? Jacksonville's a back office shell of what it was, but it is still a large part of the economy.
Media/telecom...I think Atlanta is the only city in the south with a major presence (Turner, other affiliates of Time Warner and NBC, associated support), but perhaps there is room to sprout a media/telecom industry in Jax.
Jax will never be a major hub for healthcare. Forget major national players such as Houston, NYC, Boston, and LA, even within the South Jacksonville is left in the dust by Atlanta (Emory network, CDC), Nashville (Vanderbilt network), Raleigh-Durham (Duke and Chapel Hill networks), South FL (Miami network, Cleveland Clinic), Tampa (very highly ranked hospitals), etc etc Too much strong competition to be major medical research hub or top 20 hospital hub.
Tech/biotech/research...follows the money trail, the big time research universities, and goes for concentration. Tech won't expand in major doses in the south outside of the Triangle (RTP, universities), Atlanta (VC money, universities), and Austin (university and lead presence). Jax can work on getting its fair share, but will never be a leader in this area.
Jax will never be a banking hub. Birmingham lost out in much the same way Jax did. Atlanta and Charlotte for domestic banks and Miami for international banks.
Jax will never be a huge hub for conglomerates and F500s. Atlanta, Charlotte, Dallas and Richmond fulfill that role.
Law firms...these only tend to go to the biggest cities where there is a lot of business going on. You'll find the HQ of Big 50 and the presence of many Big 100 firms in Miami, Atlanta, Houston and Dallas. Then there is DC.
Marketing/PR...follow the big business trail. Not enough local business in most <2,000,000 person cities to sustain big PR/marketing firms. Firms based in Atlanta also cover the rest of the south, essentially.
Entertainment...Atlanta, Miami and Nashville. I wouldn't expect this loud and crazy industry to infiltrate Jacksonville anytime soon.
Logistics...I think Jacksonville is losing this battle. It will never be a rail hub like the centrally located distribution hubs of Atlanta, Dallas and Nashville (even Spartanburg), and Jaxport is losing out to many other southern ports for new business. It needs to find its identity and a niche, but will never be as large as close to 10 other ports in the south and in FL.
Distribution...Dallas, Atlanta, Nashville. Centrality, rail connectivity, and access to major port is key. Jacksonville seemingly has the ingredients, but not on a large enough scale to be a "hub". Plus, this industry has nothing to do with the "young professionals" we are talking about.
I could go on...my limited 30,000 foot view of industry knowledge tells me that there is a lot of potential for Jax to be a hub for defense and government contract work, and maybe insurance and media/telecom. City leaders should target these industries specifically.
Maybe I'm way off base on where the potential lies, but I do know that most cities do a better job of maximizing their strengths and targeting specific industries. Very few cities have the benefit of serving as a dominant regional capital like Atlanta has, so they are left to their own unique devices. Jax just seems to be all over the place just throwing incentive money at whatever it can get.
A discussion about attracting young professionals is in my opinion a discussion about jobs. City leaders/Chamber folk should study where grads of all the top schools in the SE are finding jobs. I bet you there are some majors where the grads are mostly moving to other regions of the country, and so maybe there is an opportunity there to grow that sort of industry in the SE by growing it in Jax.
Quote from: Cheshire Cat on December 10, 2012, 09:50:07 PM
Interesting JFmann. What is your take on this information? I guess I am hoping that between several minds we can define a road to head down in Jacksonville that might actually speak to positive growth. Poverty here is an issue, but I also see the continued poverty here intertwined with two things which are education level and politics. Politicians in this community who won office on pledges of improving their community (especially in depressed areas) have improved their personal standing and wealth over those they were elected to represent, that in turn goes back to education or lack there of.
I'm of the mindset that incentives are shortcuts communities try to take to spur development when they haven't invested in foundations of growth (both K-12 and higher education, infrastructure, ease of doing business, etc.). While they may be effective on the surface (x company relocated here and brought y jobs), the money would be much better off spent remediating what was keeping companies and jobs away in the first place. Pretty much all the incentives in the world wouldn't get a major tech company to expand in Jacksonville with its middling universities, while Boeing/Airbus are building factories across the South just because unions are weaker, with incentives as a side benefit.
Plus, there's nothing stopping companies from threatening relocation every time incentives expire (Motorola threatened to do just that in lllinois very recently, or pretty much every sports stadium out there).
Another great read on the decidedly mixed bag that are incentives: Why Have So Many Cities and Towns Given Away So Much Money to Bass Pro Shops and Cabela's? (http://www.theatlanticcities.com/jobs-and-economy/2012/08/why-have-so-many-cities-and-towns-given-away-so-much-money-bass-pro-shops-and-cabelas/2906/)
Quote from: simms3 on December 10, 2012, 10:21:04 PM
Jacksonville should strive to be a category killer in one area. Riskier in terms of cycles, but will make the city more competitive and in a way more stable. I see Jacksonville having the potential to be a real leader in the Southeast and maybe nationally in terms of defense contract work, insurance since we still have a foothold there, and maybe media/telecom since the only other city in the SE with a major media/telecom industry is Atlanta and often there is room for more (maybe not with that industry, who knows).
Jax is *wayyy* behind New Orleans when it comes to media, film making in particular.
You make many interesting points simms. I especially like your closing comments about seeing where grads in the SE are going. That would be quite informative and eye opening. We have heard much in the past about the defense industry and our port as places to focus attention but then we see situations here like the top dog at the port moving to another city saying that the personality of local government makes working here difficult. (His words were something to that effect.) With this we see further evidence of what is wrong with our local system. You are also correct about Jax's efforts being "all over the place" which in my mind goes back to politics here and development ideas being embraced depending upon who knows who and who is gonna get paid. I am feeling more and more that if Jacksonville is going to see improvement in all areas we need to give out current stagnant political landscape a good solid kick in the pants. I am talking a major effort to change the status quo with some deep thought given to who should replace some of the old players and what needs to change policy wise here to make Jacksonville desirable to those industries and businesses that will help us not only grow, but do so excitingly.
Great points JFMann. There is much in the way of insight and fact in this discussion that will take some time to think about and digest. I do know that the mind power to take Jacksonville forward is out there and most of the really creative thought and sound answers are not going to be found in the minds of those elected to office. I don't mean that as an insult, but rather a nod to the reality that politics especially in city hall is a culture removed from what most experience on a daily basis and rather a world unto itself.
Many people talk about the great climate and natural assets of Jacksonville, but I don't know if that applies so much to the young professionals as the young families in the 35-45 range. (I consider the Young Professional range to go from 23-35). Most people my age aren't fishing the flats of the intracoastal or kayaking Guana. The only ones who are are doing it on their parents' boats because they're from here.
The recession really cut some job prospects for people who have graduated in the last 5 years. That said, many couldn't be too picky about where they chose to work. For young and talented people, they go where the best job is, and then they figure out the rest. If I got a much better job in OKC, Charlotte, or Atlanta I would be packing my bags. What I would like to do professionally has very limited options here, so a move may be inevitable. QOL is a factor, but younger people manage to find a good time wherever they end up.
Most of my friends in Jax are only here about 60% of the time on weekends. Most go to Atlanta, DC, NYC, Miami, Vegas, Denver, or anywhere they feel like for the weekend just as a way to see friends and experience new things. I don't travel as much as they do, but I have been to Atlanta twice, Savannah twice, NYC, DC, Raleigh, Palm beach twice, Tally and Gainesville 3 times a piece, and a few more places that I'm sure I'm forgetting all within the last year. I don't know if this is similar to the generations prior, but there is only about 1 weekend a month where all of my friends are in town, if that.
I just turned 35, so I guess this is my last few months of being in the age range. Of interesting note, I relocated to Jax at the age of 26. I turned down a higher paying job offer with better benefits in Orlando to accept a lower paying job offer in Ponte Vedra Beach. If I had taken the Orlando job, I could have kept my house in Lakeland, commuted 30 minutes each day, and been close to both sides of my family (Tampa/Plant City) and childhood friends. I selected Jax because Orlando has never appealed to me. Looking back, the only thing I kick regret is selling that house a year or two before the real estate market went crazy. With that said, I'm also like your friends. I travel frequently to experience things I enjoy while I'm of age to enjoy them. This weekend, I'm heading back out of town.
Leaving town on the weekends is nothing really to do with how "boring" your city may be, it's just something 20-30 somethings do. Having lived in Atlanta and now SF, people in both cities pack their bags on the weekends. There would be weekends in Atlanta where I swear everyone going out was from out of town and I would be left wondering where all the locals were. In SF people seem to really take convenience to LA, Las Vegas, Reno and the PacNW to their advantage, not to mention Tahoe, Monterrey, SLO, Napa, etc.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on December 11, 2012, 10:27:24 AM
Many people talk about the great climate and natural assets of Jacksonville, but I don't know if that applies so much to the young professionals as the young families in the 35-45 range. (I consider the Young Professional range to go from 23-35). Most people my age aren't fishing the flats of the intracoastal or kayaking Guana. The only ones who are are doing it on their parents' boats because they're from here.
The recession really cut some job prospects for people who have graduated in the last 5 years. That said, many couldn't be too picky about where they chose to work. For young and talented people, they go where the best job is, and then they figure out the rest. If I got a much better job in OKC, Charlotte, or Atlanta I would be packing my bags. What I would like to do professionally has very limited options here, so a move may be inevitable. QOL is a factor, but younger people manage to find a good time wherever they end up.
Most of my friends in Jax are only here about 60% of the time on weekends. Most go to Atlanta, DC, NYC, Miami, Vegas, Denver, or anywhere they feel like for the weekend just as a way to see friends and experience new things. I don't travel as much as they do, but I have been to Atlanta twice, Savannah twice, NYC, DC, Raleigh, Palm beach twice, Tally and Gainesville 3 times a piece, and a few more places that I'm sure I'm forgetting all within the last year. I don't know if this is similar to the generations prior, but there is only about 1 weekend a month where all of my friends are in town, if that.
You hit the nail on the head in regards to our natural assets. I know a lot of people who moved to NY, but they didn't do it for the natural landscape, they moved because it's a big city with a lot of opportunities and entertainment options.
If we want to attract young professionals we need to attract companies that will offer jobs in the tech/arts/entertainment industries and I don't see that happening anytime soon with the political landscape as it is now.
I do see the urban core as a catalyst for creating an environment that attracts young professionals. Below are a few suggestions to getting more young professionals downtown.
1. Jobs, especially those in the tech/arts/entertainment industry.
2. Offer cheap rent at or below the cost of Riverside, San Marco, and Springfield. If not there is no point since there are fewer amenities.
2. A fixed rail transit system.
3. More events downtown. Art Walk is cool, but it only happens once a month.
My wish list:
1. View life through the eyes of a young professional (i.e., visit/live elsewhere) and incorporate observations
2. Similar to UNF's flagship programs, identify focus industries and develop corresponding academic programs
3. Market according to the different demographics, rather than the ridiculous "Where Florida Begins"
4. Deemphasize the automobile; encourage walking/biking
5. Build heterogeneous communities
6. Champion, support, and groom potential leaders with inclusive progressive values
7. Act with agility, not as someone in hospice