Metro Jacksonville

Jacksonville by Neighborhood => Urban Neighborhoods => Riverside/Avondale => Topic started by: Southbanker on February 18, 2008, 10:55:46 PM

Title: Riverside alleys
Post by: Southbanker on February 18, 2008, 10:55:46 PM
Does anyone know the legal specifics of the alleys that run between a lot of the homes in Riverside?  I thought I heard that they are owned by the city, but maintained by the property owners.  Is that true?

I know some seem pretty well maintained and others are overgrown and blocked.  So I assume there are no laws that require they remain clear. 

What's the deal?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Riverside alleys
Post by: creeksidebrewery on February 19, 2008, 10:13:56 AM
We residents maintain our alley which is between Van Wert and Shadowlawn, but the city also sends workers down it about twice a year with trimmers.
Title: Re: Riverside alleys
Post by: billy on February 19, 2008, 10:37:48 AM
In Atlanta, alleys are a legal no-man's land.
The City only recognizes three out of hundreds as "official" ways.
Rear yard setbacks are measured from the centerline of the alley, rather than from the
rear yard line.

To claim ownership, legally via quitclaim, is an arduous process requiring written approval from all other property owners on the alley. A variance is required to use the alley for vehicle access.

There is an unwritten rule/ urban legend that owners are responsible for maintaining their half of the alley.

A lot of alleys have been taken over by adjacent owners, legally or not, over the years.

All together now, "We don't care how you do it in Atlanta"......
Title: Re: Riverside alleys
Post by: lindab on February 19, 2008, 11:11:20 AM
Quote from: Southbanker on February 18, 2008, 10:55:46 PM
Does anyone know the legal specifics of the alleys that run between a lot of the homes in Riverside?  I thought I heard that they are owned by the city, but maintained by the property owners.  Is that true?

I think you asked a great question. In the part of Riverside where we live, the alleys are vile. Garbage, broken bottles, dog feces, you name it are in the alleys.
Title: Re: Riverside alleys
Post by: downtownparks on February 19, 2008, 11:30:39 AM
Those of us who live in neighborhoods with Allys, it works as Southbanker described. They are Legal city ROW, but they do not maintain them. The onus is left on the residents who live on that ally.

I am ok with this, as I see allys as being a cool feature of my community, and overall a benefit. I like being able to get in and out of my back yard as needed with SOD, wood, lawnmower, ect. I try to help with our ally when I can with a mow or a trash pick up. It has been pretty easy to maintain once it was gotten to a level of cleanliness. People have actually started using it more too, since it was cleaned up.
Title: Re: Riverside alleys
Post by: lindab on February 19, 2008, 01:18:19 PM
Quote from: downtownparks on February 19, 2008, 11:30:39 AM
People have actually started using it more too, since it was cleaned up.

You know you are a good guy. I'll bet if there were a Alley Alliance Clean-Up Day with everyone getting out to clean, the results would be dramatic and, like you say, people would start using them for more than garbage dumping. There could be a prize offered by Oscar the Grump from Sesame Street, who lives in the garbage can. :)
Title: Re: Riverside alleys
Post by: downtownparks on February 19, 2008, 02:09:43 PM
Awww, thanks!

I assure you, it wasn't just me. One neighbor had rock dumped in a portion of the alley that gave her access to her garage, another had his parking area paved and lighted... It was very much a group effort, though I think it just sort of happened, but I know that some blocks have had group efforts with some success.
Title: Re: Riverside alleys
Post by: deathstar on February 22, 2008, 06:30:57 PM
I remember as a kid, when my Grandmother would close up shop at the 5 Points Deli (now Gina's Deli in 5 Points), she would go down an alley to get to an old woman's house. It was fairly close to Riverside, and was always kept rather clean. This however was late 80's, early 90's.
Title: Re: Riverside alleys
Post by: lindab on February 23, 2008, 09:04:20 AM
I've been thinking about what downtownparks said about the alley maintenance close by him. Yesterday on my alley stroll, I noticed that the worst of the alley mess is behind rental property with more than one family in residence. Every block seems to have three or more rental units fronting an alley. Wondering what is the best way to get them involved or go to landlords instead?
Title: Re: Riverside alleys
Post by: fightingosprey07 on February 23, 2008, 10:41:18 AM
Does anybody have pictures of these alleys, I'm just curious to know what they look like.
Title: Re: Riverside alleys
Post by: downtownparks on February 23, 2008, 11:26:18 AM
Linda, getting renters to take ownership is one of the age old questions, isn't it? Many of the highest crime neighborhoods are the ones with very high rental populations. Rather than try to fix the problem, people either just move, or they accept it because the house isn't really theirs.

I would simply approach them and say, HEY, i see the ally behind your house is in bad shape, we were wondering if you need us to help you clean it up? And explain the benefits of keeping trash debris, and overgrowth out of the allys. It may not work, but you might get a couple of decent civic minded renters to do something.
Title: Re: Riverside alleys
Post by: jbm32206 on February 23, 2008, 04:27:15 PM
Is there not a neighborhood association, like what we have in Springfield? We get together every so often and clean up the alleys...it helps when there's a group willing to get together to do that.
Title: Re: Riverside alleys
Post by: lindab on February 23, 2008, 04:34:40 PM
Great minds, etc. I was just telling my husband that we might work with RAP and the city and have an alley clean-up day followed by an alley barbecue.
Title: Re: Riverside alleys
Post by: lindab on February 23, 2008, 04:38:50 PM
Not sure if this will work. I'm trying to post a pic of one of our alleys. (Technology conquers normal brain)
Title: Re: Riverside alleys
Post by: Southbanker on February 23, 2008, 05:11:31 PM
Thanks for the info.  I have looked at some houses in Riv/Av where the only way I could get my car off the street would be to use the alley.

Always wondered if it would be a hassle to get through them with crap and or cars that might be blocking them.  It has always scared me away from those houses.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Riverside alleys
Post by: lindab on February 23, 2008, 05:49:24 PM
Geez, I did not want to scare anyone away from getting a house in the area. The alleys are never blocked by cars but because I have so many renters for neighbors, the conditions are not nice for walking. Look around a little more before you make a final decision. You might be just the neighbor we need to turn things around.
Title: Re: Riverside alleys
Post by: RiversideGator on February 23, 2008, 07:24:27 PM
As someone who owns several rental properties and who lived in Riverside for over 7 years, I feel qualified to add to this discussion.   :)

The trash problems in the alleys are caused by a number of factors.  First, some tenants cant seem to understand that trash is to be placed in bags and these bags are then to be placed into trash cans.  Second, some landlords do not provide adequate trash cans/receptacles for their tenants thereby helping to cause the mess.  Third, you have a number of bums who cruise the alleys and sometimes tear into bags to get at the cans (which they can sell), other pieces of "treasure", or even old food (disgusting but true).  And finally, animal activity (cats, rats, raccoons, possums, etc) creates a lot of problems as the little critters rip open the bags to get at the food.  Anyway, keeping the alleys clean is a constant battle and I think as the area continues to gentrify this problem will be reduced.

BTW, the alleys are a great thing IMO since it allows access to homes from the rear and allows for trash to be picked up in the rear of the houses.