220 Riverside Breaks Ground: A New Day For Brooklyn?
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/2214254027_4dpzHg9-M.jpg)
Does the ground breaking of 220 Riverside represent the beginning of an urban development boom in downtown's final frontier? With 220 Riverside now underway, here is a brief summary of 220 Riverside's groundbreaking and a look at additional proposed projects in Brooklyn.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2012-nov-220-riverside-breaks-ground-a-new-day-for-brooklyn-
Very exciting news for Jacksonville.
This just could be the project that jump starts everything again. I love the look too. Maybe there is hope....
As a native New Yorker, IF all of this becomes a reality, I'd be more than happy to become a Brooklynite again.
Now if they can just convert that Sky Way repair station to an actual stop we will be in business.
I passed this morning as I took a detour to san marco blvd. ( the fuller warren exit in the morning is awful on I-10). I seen some guys out there getting set up. Im so anxious for this to get under way. I want to see a foundation laid like tomorrow!!! ;D
What is the latest on Riverside & Jackson...anything moving forward?
I'm pretty bullish on Brooklyn and its potential and I've talked to many others who are as well. Riverside/Avondale has some infill constraints that Brooklyn doesn't, plus it is closer to DT, the Southbank, and 95, yet still close enough to the restaurants, shops, parks, etc of R/A to get those benefits as well.
I've always thought one of the biggest hindrances to getting streetcar and fixed transit, was the lack of developers/investors lobbying for it. Now the 220 Partnership/Hallmark will be all over it and hopefully the developers of the other projects will be too. Like Ennis pointed out, now there is a funding mechanism in place for it, as well as an example of the type of infill (220) that can be built along a streetcar line. 220 might as well be called a PTOD (Pre-Transit Oriented Development). Lets hope there is more on the way.
This is cool!
I'm all for 220 Riverside, but the Riverside and Jackson project is rather lackluster. That parking out front has to go.
I'm for both. However, I agree that the Riverside & Jackson site plan needs to go back to the drawing board and I believe it will.
I vote for a "Brooklyn" sub-section under the Urban Neighborhoods section.
That article really puts into perspective all of the upcoming work and how huge an impact it will have.
I recall the original plan for 200 Riverside (as it was known back then when it was a hotel/office building) had a designated trolley stop with a cool looking transit shelter. I don't see that incorporated into this new design. With Unity Plaza on this site it would seem like you would want to still have that whether or not it's a hotel or an apartment building. Am I just missing it or did they remove that element?
Like Jaxlore said, the skyway shop should be turned into a real stop. Then, the streetcar can tie into the skyway, and then there is no need to take it downtown and clutter it up
^I agree with you guys on finding a way to at least add a real skyway station at the maintenance center. It would really suck if these developments open in 2014, with a grocery store, and the Northbank/Southbank residents are still required to drive to reach it despite the skyway being across the street.
With that said, the development next door was approved by the DIA today:
Downtown group approves plans for second Brooklyn developmentQuotePope & Land Enterprises, the developers of the project, has asked the city to spend about $1.8 million to upgrade utilities in the area and for a $5.2 million revenue enhancement grant; that request is pending before the City Council.
The project is being hailed as a triumph for the area, even by those who have some issues with details of the development.
In particular, said DIA Boardmember Oliver Barakat, the "superblock" created by the closure of streets doesn't meet the city's goal of creating walkable development in the area.
"I voted for it because the numbers make sense," he said. "But we have to recognize we approved a project that is antithetical to our master plan."
full article: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2012-11-14/story/downtown-group-approves-plans-second-brooklyn-development
Thanks Barakat. "It doesnt fit what we are trying to do but I voted on it anyways because of money."
?????????????
I'm not sure what the DIA approved but I hope its not the current retail center design, which has never went before the DDRB. Assuming things remain the same as previously shown, this is what 220 Riverside, Riverside YMCA, and Pope & Land's projects look like together:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/Riverside-Park-Development/i-qrZZNVc/0/L/Riverside%20Brooklyn%20Future%20Map-L.jpg)
So they know it's bad design, but they gave them the go ahead?? Was this approval purely for funding? Do they have to go back through DDRB, or is this the design we can expect in 2014??
The aerial looks good, but it could be so much better with a better layout at the Pope and Land site. If 220 does well, imagine what will go to the east of the project on that block....... Mmmmmmm 12 stories..........
Even today, I can live with the residential layout of Pope & Land's gated apartments. It's not ideal but it could be a lot worse. However, the retail portion definitely needs to be revisited. Parking doesn't necessarily need to be structured but it should at least resemble what Sembler did with the Publix and Margaret Street retail shops in Riverside.
As for the DDRB, the residential portion has already been approved. However, I don't believe the retail portion has ever been submitted for design review.
The discussion at DIA was centered around the residential development of the Pope & Land site. Their "approval" was really more of a resolution of support because until DIA has adopted a CRA plan they don't have any authority on the matter. The approval authority stays with City Council until the CRA plan is adopted.
Quote from: thelakelander on November 14, 2012, 04:40:07 PM
^I agree with you guys on finding a way to at least add a real skyway station at the maintenance center. It would really suck if these developments open in 2014, with a grocery store, and the Northbank/Southbank residents are still required to drive to reach it despite the skyway being across the street.
On the aerial, it looks like it would be pretty easy. What are there, three tracks outside the maintenance building? The distance between the outer two looks almost big enough for a station. Or, since its the end of the line, you could build it over the parking lot on May. Though it would be nice if it could be extended the extra block or two into the middle of all this development.
I can't believe I never noticed that jug-handle! Is that thing just for people coming over the Acosta headed for the TU building? That's gotta be at least 5 cars a day! Any possibility of that block being redeveloped, or will it be cut in half with a useless piece of road on it forever?
The parking lot just north of 220 on riverside ave looks too suburban! I think the residentals look ok I guess. If they can redesign them and make better (more urban) I think they should. But get rid of that damn SS style parking lot!
What will the apartments look like? I could see moving there..Is Jacksonville finally growing up?
Hey, does anyone know about the hotel portion of this project? Is that just speculation that may come in a future phase or is it definitely planned? I ask because I was actually in a meeting the other day where a Hallmark rep mentioned something about a hotel...but I was distracted and didn't actually hear what she said before or after. Only heard it mentioned lol.
yes the commecial hotel is coming to brooklyn and u wil get more news on this nextweek
awesome, thanks!
Where will the hotel be located? The last parcel between 200 Riverside and Fresh Market retail center?
^ west of the pond across Magnolia Street. I believe it will be a new product type aimed at millenials.
Cool! So is it related to the other projects or something new?
Quote from: tufsu1 on January 09, 2014, 01:02:53 PM
^ west of the pond across Magnolia Street. I believe it will be a new product type aimed at millenials.
So, the space shown across the street in this plan?
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/220-Riverside/i-H2RQmsB/0/XL/166947_326018007417702_310852088934294_1284616_1705422625_n-XL.jpg)
Wow. If so. Little building and lots and lots of surface parking.
Quote from: Tacachale on January 09, 2014, 02:17:39 PM
Cool! So is it related to the other projects or something new?
It's always been a part of the overall plan. But yes, still a positive if they move on it sooner rather than later.
Quote from: thelakelander on January 09, 2014, 02:32:56 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on January 09, 2014, 01:02:53 PM
^ west of the pond across Magnolia Street. I believe it will be a new product type aimed at millenials.
So, the space shown across the street in this plan?
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/220-Riverside/i-H2RQmsB/0/XL/166947_326018007417702_310852088934294_1284616_1705422625_n-XL.jpg)
Interesting...out of curiosity, what is supposed to happen to the east of the 220 Riverside apartments. Isn't there a vacant space buffering it and the Shoppes on Riverside parcel? I had thought the hotel might go there.
I can picture something like an Aloft hotel being built in that location. There really aren't any hotels in the Riverside area that I can think of. If I had a single bedroom apartment in 220 Riverside and my parents came to visit, that is where I would have them stay.
As for the empty parcel fronting Riverside Avenue...I foresee a much taller residential/office mixed use development within a few years. With the excitement to move to that area, and all of the great retail that is proposed, it is going to be a prime location for something larger.
& maybe a people mover station ...
Quote from: thelakelander on January 09, 2014, 02:32:56 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on January 09, 2014, 01:02:53 PM
^ west of the pond across Magnolia Street. I believe it will be a new product type aimed at millenials.
So, the space shown across the street in this plan?
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/220-Riverside/i-H2RQmsB/0/XL/166947_326018007417702_310852088934294_1284616_1705422625_n-XL.jpg)
yes
Quote from: brainstormer on January 09, 2014, 08:20:04 PM
I can picture something like an Aloft hotel being built in that location. There really aren't any hotels in the Riverside area that I can think of. If I had a single bedroom apartment in 220 Riverside and my parents came to visit, that is where I would have them stay.
As for the empty parcel fronting Riverside Avenue...I foresee a much taller residential/office mixed use development within a few years. With the excitement to move to that area, and all of the great retail that is proposed, it is going to be a prime location for something larger.
Aloft makes the most sense, but there are already 2 in Jax (both w/ extreme construction issues).
Aloft is the same model, and is part of the Starwood portfolio. It also might be something like Even or Hotel Indigo (IHG properties).
http://www.ihg.com/evenhotels/hotels/us/en/reservation?scmisc=header_6c
Yeah, they had to basically rebuild the Aloft on Southside after shoddy construction. Not the best record in Jax.
It's a good way to begin linking Riverside with downtown.
Just wish they would have more street level retail.
Where is the street/sidewalk level retail?
on the first floor of the building facing Unity Plaza
Quote from: loadking on January 09, 2014, 03:53:00 AM
yes the commecial hotel is coming to brooklyn and u wil get more news on this nextweek
Is it next week yet? Or did I fall asleep for a couple of months? Anything on the hotel yet or perhaps I missed it.
A building like 220 Riverside just caught fire and burned to the ground, nearly taking other new buildings around it with it, here in SF this past week.
5 alarm fire, $227M project with 320 units (pay no attention to price as it is way more expensive to build out here), Type III construction with concrete bottom two floors and wood top five, braced by steel I-beams (standard EQ construction for large new multifamily low rises such as this).
(http://cbssanfran.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/china_basin_fire_031114_03.jpg)
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2014/03/12/ucsf-mission-bay-construction-worker-watches-work-go-up-in-flames/
http://www.youtube.com/v/q2h8oDanxkc?version=3&
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=q2h8oDanxkc
The cause may have been a welding accident. Anyway, I hope nothing like that happens to 220 riverside or any other wood frame buildings going up in area.
I think this happened to the apartments on Ponce next to Krispy Kreme in Atlanta several years ago.
Seems a bit like posting about an airliner crash and saying you hope it doesn't happen to any similar planes in Jax. It is a rational concern, of course, but the question of likelihood or rate of incidence is still up in the air, no pun intended. I'm sure I'm asking the wrong folks, but what are the chances of a fire like this in a completed project with all its fire protection features in place?
Or two 5 story brick buildings could explode due to a gas leak.
^^^Yes. Not relevant to 220 Riverside, though, especially since those apartments won't likely be serviced with gas.
I was blown away how quickly a wooden frame new construction building could burn down (the whole thing went down in about half an hour!). I'm sticking to concrete construction when I can.
So any news on the hotel that was mentioned?
Quote from: edjax on April 02, 2014, 03:17:28 PM
So any news on the hotel that was mentioned?
the only insights I have that are peripherally applicable are that:
1) The piece of undeveloped land to the east of the condos is still transitioning from multiple ownership. Once the negotiations are complete then we can expect to see plans for development on it.
2) I don't think the land north of Unity Plaza (where it's mentioned on this thread that the hotel would be) belongs to the developers. I could be wrong, but I've heard they are trying to acquire patches of land north of the plaza to turn into a larger greenspace adjacent to the plaza.
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2014/04/07/hotel-in-the-works-for-220-riverside-site.html
And another article just posted showing Coley signing the first lease. It states have 20 others ready for signing. It did state the rates are in $1.45-$1.50 per sqft range with some up to $1.65. Article also has info on the commercial aspect and what is lined up for it. Exciting.
I know another group is exploring the possibility of a hotel in that vicinity as well. Exciting times.
Exciting times indeed. In between this and the trio movement, looks like we may FINALLY have something going on here :)
I was shocked at how high the rent are in 220 .I visited the office and they were every nice but the rents are just too high for a relatively small space..
^^^Consider that a steal relative to other cities in the SE.
Keep in mind that most SS apartments are absolute shit construction (so shitty they wouldn't even be able to be constructed in several metro areas in this country). It's very inexpensive for a developer to throw one of those up, put up some cheap crown moulding, install cabinets that "look" expensive but are horribly crafted, and throw in "stainless steel" GE appliance, spending relatively little money on granite countertops, and bingo you have an apartment that appears extremely nice and luxurious, certainly spacious.
This construction required the rental of a tower crane ($5-20K per day depending on city), concrete for first 1-2 floors, and better wood frame construction for upper 5 (reaches upper limit allowed and able to be engineered using wood). The land was a lot more expensive (relative to Jacksonville as a whole). The permitting process was probably lengthy, and there were probably a lot more hurdles to jump through given the area. Not only that, area contractors aren't super experienced in this type of multifamily construction. I'm sure that presented obstacles and didn't help construction pricing. No contractors have large orders for subs, and subsequently materials for this kind of apartment, because it's the only one of its kind going up. So therefore, fewer discounts on hard costs.
All in all, $1.40-$1.70psf rents for this Type III construction infill this close to downtown in a 1.5 million person metro is about as low as it gets in the country. The fact that you think it's super expensive is indicative of the high perception "market" hurdle these developers must cross over to make their projects a financial success.
QuoteI was shocked at how high the rent are in 220 .I visited the office and they were every nice but the rents are just too high for a relatively small space..
It takes them 10 years to get the product to market, they add 200+ events to the Unity Plaza, add a kick-ass grocery store and what do they people say about the product......."the rents are just too high for.....the space".
Nice 8)
The rents are at market for that type of building, and around what Bell Riverside is. People should pay a little premium for an awesome location.
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 11, 2014, 09:48:37 PM
QuoteI was shocked at how high the rent are in 220 .I visited the office and they were every nice but the rents are just too high for a relatively small space..
It takes them 10 years to get the product to market, they add 200+ events to the Unity Plaza, add a kick-ass grocery store and what do they people say about the product......."the rents are just too high for.....the space".
Nice 8)
The grocery store is a separate project, but I agree...awesome location. This area should be killing it in the next couple years.