http://jacksonville.com/premium-promo/2012-11-02/story/jacksonville-remains-murder-capital-florida
Extra, Extra, Read All About It! But only if you pay the piper.
Are these state crime numbers going by city limits, or the individual counties? To me, the more fair stat data would be if they went by county stats, given Jax's consolidation with Duval. It seems like most murders in Jax are from disputes with people that know each other (which can happen anywhere) rather than haphazard acts of violence.
They go by counties. In fact using the county population usually dilutes the murder rate since the highest rates tend to be in urban areas. In other words, when we were originally going by city limits, Jacksonville's rate appeared lower since the city limits include suburban areas not included for other cities. It was only when we looked at the countywide statistics that we saw how bad Jacksonville's problem really is. This said, we're usually only the highest out of counties with 500,000 or more and Miami-Dade is always right at our heels.
And no, Jacksonville's murder problem couldn't just "happen anywhere" or else we wouldn't consistently have the highest rate among the state's big counties.
^^^Crime when enemies go to battle against one another can happen 'anywhere' whether it is domestic, or on the street, that's all that I'm saying. Why do people misunderstand my comments all of the time? The way the article is written, it sounds like that are referring to cities, and not counties hence 'Jacksonville' and not 'Duval' on the title; If so, that's comparing 800K some odd in Jax to about 400K in Miami, not exactly a fair & balanced way of looking at things.
I just checked the FDLE, and last year Miami Dade by far had more murders than Duval (218 in Miami Dade to the 76 in Duval). So I don't look at what's really an unfair comparison from the get-go as some scarlet letter against Jax.
The article doesn't really make it clear, but they're talking about counties. I assure you that the county stats paint a far worse picture for Jax than city limit stats, for the reasons I gave.
^^^Exactly, this article isn't very clear, so I'm not putting any credence into it; Where are the numbers, and why not wait until the end of the year? Last year Miami Dade had 218 murders to Duval's 76, so I can't imagine that county numbers would 'sugarcoat' Duval's stats.
What's Miami's population compared to Duval?
I suspect there might be a slight difference there.
The city of Miami is roughly 400,000 (half the size of Jax.)....Miami-Dade County is about 2.5 million
That said, the statistic is not total # of muders...it is murder rate (say # of murders per 100,000 people)....so population differences are normalized.
No matter how you spin it, we have a problem here in Duval County.
Quote from: thelakelander on November 05, 2012, 08:08:41 AM
No matter how you spin it, we have a problem here in Duval County.
agreed.....normalizing the numbers into a ratio makes it clear just how bad the problem is here!
Is it murder to kill zombies?
Serious question, and if I were a better writer I would offer a dissertation on the rise in zombie mania, and the potential to further desensitize the population to the plight of homeless and hungry.... a soon to be (perhaps) exponentially expanded demographic.
Sigh. I-10, the murder *rate* is the number of murders per number of residents. Miami-Dade has more murders but also more residents.
Historically, everyone only ever looked at the city limits murder rate. Because Jacksonville's city limits include a lot of suburban areas with typically lower murder rates than the urban core, the City of Jacksonville's murder rate was lower than, say, the City of Miami, which doesn't include comparable suburbs. However, comparing the county murder rates you see the real picture.
For nearly 20 years, Duval County has been at or near the top of list of murder rates among Florida's big counties. Our murder rate has stayed at the top of the list even as other crime is down. No matter how you want to justify it, this is a *huge* problem for our city.
The only way to solve the murder problem is to solve the murder cause: poverty. Fix THAT problem and see the statistics drop dramatically.
So a stat that says 800K people in Jax (885 square miles) has a higher murder *rate* than 400K in Miami (55 square miles), that's totally 'justifed'. Ah man, Jax is like freaking Chicago, Beirut, and Gary, Ind all rolled up into one!!!! Every time I go outside my door here in Jax, I'm in fear of my life.... This stat is like comparing pre-consolidated Jax to the entire Dade county. Where are the numbers? Why deem us the highest murder rate already, when it isn't even 2013 yet?
^The stat doesn't state this. It compares statistics per 100,000 people. With that in mind, it wouldn't matter if the places compared were Jax, Miami, and Tallahassee.
Quote from: tufsu1 on November 05, 2012, 08:03:36 AM
The city of Miami is roughly 400,000 (half the size of Jax.)....Miami-Dade County is about 2.5 million
That said, the statistic is not total # of muders...it is murder rate (say # of murders per 100,000 people)....so population differences are normalized.
Square miles don't murder people, therefore murders per square mile is a less relevant stat. People have been known to murder people, therefore, murders per capita (That's per head) is more appropriate. I hope this helps.
(Edited: Irrelevant to less relevant) (Murders per square mile would not be an irrelevant stat if you wanted to know where the more crime ridden areas were)
Quote from: I-10east on November 05, 2012, 10:05:50 AM
So a stat that says 800K people in Jax (885 square miles) has a higher murder *rate* than 400K in Miami (55 square miles), that's totally 'justifed'. Ah man, Jax is like freaking Chicago, Beirut, and Gary, Ind all rolled up into one!!!! Every time I go outside my door here in Jax, I'm in fear of my life.... This stat is like comparing pre-consolidated Jax to the entire Dade county. Where are the numbers? Why deem us the highest murder rate already, when it isn't even 2013 yet?
NO. The stat says that DUVAL COUNTY has a higher murder rate than MIAMI-DADE COUNTY - and every other large county in Florida. For the last time, if we were comparing the City of Jacksonville to the City of Miami, Jax's murder rate would be a lot lower than Miami's, and you're right, it would not be a "justified" comparison.
Your usually charming civic pride is starting to look like willful ignorance here.
^^^Where are the numbers?
The Numbers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxAIBFsRpqU)
^^^Very funny.
Quote from: thelakelander on November 05, 2012, 10:15:28 AM
^The stat doesn't state this. It compares statistics per 100,000 people. With that in mind, it wouldn't matter if the places compared were Jax, Miami, and Tallahassee.
Quote from: tufsu1 on November 05, 2012, 08:03:36 AM
The city of Miami is roughly 400,000 (half the size of Jax.)....Miami-Dade County is about 2.5 million
That said, the statistic is not total # of muders...it is murder rate (say # of murders per 100,000 people)....so population differences are normalized.
The article wasn't totally clear, but the premise is that "Duval County had the highest murder rate in the state among high population counties".
http://members.jacksonville.com/premium/2012-11-01/story/jacksonville-remains-murder-capital-florida
The statistic specifically compares counties, not cities, and it specifically excludes counties under 500k, so Leon County (Tallahassee) would be excluded.
BTW, the report is here (http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/Content/getdoc/a324add7-5dd6-4201-9696-93bfd76bc36c/UCR-Home.aspx) under the Semi-Annual Statewide County Report.
Quote from: Tacachale on November 05, 2012, 10:21:02 AM
Quote from: I-10east on November 05, 2012, 10:05:50 AM
So a stat that says 800K people in Jax (885 square miles) has a higher murder *rate* than 400K in Miami (55 square miles), that's totally 'justifed'. Ah man, Jax is like freaking Chicago, Beirut, and Gary, Ind all rolled up into one!!!! Every time I go outside my door here in Jax, I'm in fear of my life.... This stat is like comparing pre-consolidated Jax to the entire Dade county. Where are the numbers? Why deem us the highest murder rate already, when it isn't even 2013 yet?
NO. The stat says that DUVAL COUNTY has a higher murder rate than MIAMI-DADE COUNTY - and every other large county in Florida. For the last time, if we were comparing the City of Jacksonville to the City of Miami, Jax's murder rate would be a lot lower than Miami's, and you're right, it would not be a "justified" comparison.
Your usually charming civic pride is starting to look like willful ignorance here.
A lot of the worst parts of Miami are outside of Miami city limits. Ever heard of Opa-Locka? Its one of the worst areas in the entire state. Pretty much all of Dade County is heavily urbanized and there is quite a bit of crime throughout. Also, quite a bit of crime in Jacksonville is in areas that are outside of pre-consolidation boundaries. So really the fact that we have a worse murder rate than Miami-Dade County is quite troubling and can't solely be blamed on our urban neighborhoods skewing the numbers up.
There are quite a few places in Dade County (outside of city limits) that make the NW Side look like paradise.
Quote from: CityLife on November 05, 2012, 11:14:51 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on November 05, 2012, 10:21:02 AM
Quote from: I-10east on November 05, 2012, 10:05:50 AM
So a stat that says 800K people in Jax (885 square miles) has a higher murder *rate* than 400K in Miami (55 square miles), that's totally 'justifed'. Ah man, Jax is like freaking Chicago, Beirut, and Gary, Ind all rolled up into one!!!! Every time I go outside my door here in Jax, I'm in fear of my life.... This stat is like comparing pre-consolidated Jax to the entire Dade county. Where are the numbers? Why deem us the highest murder rate already, when it isn't even 2013 yet?
NO. The stat says that DUVAL COUNTY has a higher murder rate than MIAMI-DADE COUNTY - and every other large county in Florida. For the last time, if we were comparing the City of Jacksonville to the City of Miami, Jax's murder rate would be a lot lower than Miami's, and you're right, it would not be a "justified" comparison.
Your usually charming civic pride is starting to look like willful ignorance here.
A lot of the worst parts of Miami are outside of Miami city limits. Ever heard of Opa-Locka? Its one of the worst areas in the entire state. Pretty much all of Dade County is heavily urbanized and there is quite a bit of crime throughout. Also, quite a bit of crime in Jacksonville is in areas that are outside of pre-consolidation boundaries. So really the fact that we have a worse murder rate than Miami-Dade County is quite troubling and can't solely be blamed on our urban neighborhoods skewing the numbers up.
There are quite a few places in Dade County (outside of city limits) that make the NW Side look like paradise.
That might be true, but there are large areas of both Duval and Miami-Dade that have much lower murder rates. In Duval, murders absolutely occur within the pre-consolidation boundaries at a much higher rate than they do outside it. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if near to half of our murders were happening in the old city boundaries, despite its lower population compared to the rest of the county. Of course there are urban core neighborhoods with fewer murders, and suburban neighborhoods with more.
The point is, comparing the City of Jacksonville to the City of Miami or City of Orlando (or the City of Opa-Locka) skews Jacksonville's rate, since COJ includes populous areas like much of the Southside, Mandarin, the outer Westside etc, where there are substantially fewer murders occurring. However, comparing the countywide stats, the real picture emerges.
We should not omit ALL case's written off as proclaimed suicide. Once a case is written off as suicide it is not questioned and never investigated, keeps the crime rate down and budgets in control. All law enforcement ends up looking squeaky clean as if they had done there job forgetting about the factual evidence that contradicts their opinion by assumption only. If they never investigate or test anything to support their proclamation as a suicide where do you think it leaves the lost loved ones who have evidence to prove it was actually a homicide case. Homicide cases are by many forms of incident verses Suicide stands alone.
Vital Statistic reporting reflects from 2007 to 2009 and provisional 2010 had a 5 to 1 of Suicides vs Homicides.
Jacksonville Beach for example had a reported 47 Suicides to 10 Homicides in their 7.36 square mile are.
Jacksoville Beach, Neptune Beach and Atalantic Beach had a reported 98 Suicides to 23 Homicides in a little over a two year period.
As an example check out the actual murder case of Natasha Roseanna Boykin in Jacksonville Beach November 2009
In addition check out the report yourself and you will see ALL counties broken down. This report speaks for itself of the writtten of homicide cases for the lack of better term to justify not doing their jobs - State Attorney included!
From Vital Statistics Department of Health â€" Duval County Florida
Below is a breakdown of the Duval County Recorded Deaths by City for 2008, 2009 and provisional 2010.
Year City Of Death Suicides Homicide
2008 ATLANTIC BEACH 3 1
2008 JACKSONVILLE 140 139
2008 JACKSONVILLE BEACH 5
2008 Unknown 1 1
2009 ATLANTIC BEACH 4 1
2009 JACKSONVILLE 145 116
2009 JACKSONVILLE BEACH 5 1
2009 MAYPORT 1
2009 NEPTUNE BEACH 1
2010 ATLANTIC BEACH 2
2010 BALDWIN 1
2010 JACKSONVILLE 112 92
2010 JACKSONVILLE BEACH 3
2010 NEPTUNE BEACH 2
Below is the Duval County Recoded Suicide and Homicide Deaths, By City, from 2001 thru 2007.
Duval County Recorded Suicide and Homicide Deaths
By City, 2001 thru 2007
County City Year Suicide Homicide
DUVAL ATLANTIC BEACH 2001 1 0
DUVAL ATLANTIC BEACH 2002 5 0
DUVAL ATLANTIC BEACH 2003 5 3
DUVAL ATLANTIC BEACH 2004 2 2
DUVAL ATLANTIC BEACH 2005 4 1
DUVAL ATLANTIC BEACH 2006 3 4
DUVAL ATLANTIC BEACH 2007 2 0
DUVAL BALDWIN 2004 0 1
DUVAL JACKSONVILLE 2001 109 83
DUVAL JACKSONVILLE 2002 113 114
DUVAL JACKSONVILLE 2003 118 106
DUVAL JACKSONVILLE 2004 112 112
DUVAL JACKSONVILLE 2005 126 111
DUVAL JACKSONVILLE 2006 109 130
DUVAL JACKSONVILLE 2007 114 158
DUVAL JACKSONVILLE BEACH 2001 2 0
DUVAL JACKSONVILLE BEACH 2002 9 2
DUVAL JACKSONVILLE BEACH 2003 5 0
DUVAL JACKSONVILLE BEACH 2004 2 1
DUVAL JACKSONVILLE BEACH 2005 6 2
DUVAL JACKSONVILLE BEACH 2006 4 2
DUVAL JACKSONVILLE BEACH 2007 6 2
DUVAL NEPTUNE BEACH 2001 1 0
DUVAL NEPTUNE BEACH 2003 2 2
DUVAL NEPTUNE BEACH 2004 2 0
DUVAL NEPTUNE BEACH 2005 3 0
DUVAL NEPTUNE BEACH 2006 1 0
DUVAL NEPTUNE BEACH 2007 1 0
**Jacksonville Beach â€" ALONE approximately a 7.36 mile Radius has a reported â€" 47 SUICIDES vs. 10 HOMICIDES
trthskr. What is the source of this information, can you share it please? Also, the numbers you are quoting are not current. I believe the most recent being 2010. If so, how do you come up with the statement that Jacksonville is again the murder capital?