QuoteAmidst widespread speculation that Amazon is looking to place a fulfillment center operation somewhere in Florida, one has to consider what Jacksonville’s chances are of landing one of the mega-deals.
full article: http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/blog/2012/10/what-are-jacksonvilles-chances-at.html
Cool, maybe my Prime account will go from two-day to one-day delivery.
If that happens we should also be able to collect sales tax off them so they won't have an unfair advantage in the marketplace.
Quote from: funwithteeth on November 01, 2012, 06:04:37 PM
Cool, maybe my Prime account will go from two-day to one-day delivery.
We can dream
He was being sarcastic about my comment about benefiting from possibly faster delivery, not about this benefiting the city as a whole :D
EDIT: In reference to deleted I-10east post.
Oops, my fault, time to delete the comment. :-[ :-[ :-[
Interesting article in Mother Jones about what it's like to work at an un-named fulfillment center. There are a few links within the article itself to similar stories at other places.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/02/mac-mcclelland-free-online-shipping-warehouses-labor (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/02/mac-mcclelland-free-online-shipping-warehouses-labor)
Hopefully not all warehousing jobs operate on a *BF&I method.
What I don't get is the real estate listing has a line that says 'RAIL - Not Available.' REALLY kind of weird since there are railroad tracks a few hundred feet away to the Southeast or to the South, or to the Southwest, or a couple of miles West, and a couple of miles Northwest. Wonder if they have ever heard of laying track?
*BF&I Method - Brute Force and Ignorance. A common infirmity in high production jobs, factories, manual labor or federal jobs.
Quote from: Tacachale on November 01, 2012, 06:32:14 PM
If that happens we should also be able to collect sales tax off them so they won't have an unfair advantage in the marketplace.
How does a company located thousands of miles away have an unfair advantage over a business located next door?
Quote from: cityimrov on November 01, 2012, 09:47:21 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on November 01, 2012, 06:32:14 PM
If that happens we should also be able to collect sales tax off them so they won't have an unfair advantage in the marketplace.
How does a company located thousands of miles away have an unfair advantage over a business located next door?
umm...by not charging (or paying) 7% in sales tax
I hope Jacksonville Florida lands a Mega Amazon warehouse. But lets not forget Amazon isn't always the lowest price when it comes to a lot of items, even with the sales tax nor is Chinamart aka Walmart. More jobs for Jacksonville if Amazon comes and this is all we should really care about. 8)
Jobs! Agreed! That should be our goal.
For decades most mail order houses have NOT paid sales tax except in the cases of 'in state' orders. So an order from Jax or Orlando WOULD pay sales tax, but someone in Georgia wouldn't. This is why you hear the infomercials saying something like 'Florida residents please include 7% state sales tax.'
I wouldn't worry over a warehouse slavery issue. The employee ALWAYS knows two things the boss doesn't: They know how hard they intend to work, and they know when they'll walk out the back door. It's a seldom used advantage.
The bottom of the article showed a quote from one of the head sharks at Amazon…. Amazon “has sought to create thousands of jobs in Florida, but the state’s government hasn’t shown much interest,†said Paul Misener, Amazon’s vice president of global public policy, told WSJ in July. “Without Florida’s leadership, these thousands of jobs will be created in another state.â€
Of course one of our (our bookstores) competitors is Amazon, and other Internet vendors selling books online. We’ve managed to survive and build up to 22 employees through our hard work, along with my hourly prayers. ;D
We have certain advantages which have allowed us to survive and even grow during the competitive environment of emerging e- books and Internet venders.
But let nobody kid you, these Amazon fellows are sharks, brutal to the core, aided by unfair legislation giving them advantages over the brick and mortar stores. I will tell you a brief story, which will explain why I say this.
During the late nineties, when Amazon became aggressive in the book business, somebody there repeatedly phoned me for about a year, attempting to get us to list on Amazon our online inventory of about 15,000 titles. I resisted, always desiring to be independent as much as possible, which is why I own all of the retail and warehouse buildings used in our bookstores. After a while they stopped bothering me.
Well, somewhere around 2002, one of our customers encouraged us to “try†Amazon. Always desiring to sell directly from the shelves when possible, we had nevertheless been listing selected, somewhat pricey books online via ABEBOOKS, which is now owned by the sharks of Amazon. So, I relented, and said…. go ahead and upload to Amazon. I had a young fellow working the listings and shipping at the time. Well, we received so many orders from our newly uploaded titles that he became overwhelmed.
The problem was that he failed to tell me of the situation, and secretly simply “cancelled†or ignored the orders. Within weeks, our “fulfillment†level was perhaps into the 80’s, which was below the criteria set by Amazon. Because of this, Amazon cancelled our ability to list, which did not concern me too much because we had other options. I did not discover at first that one or two of my employees, perhaps afraid to inform me of this cancel event attempted to explain what happened to Amazon so that these fellows might reinstate the account. Once I discovered this “groveling†behavior, which I would not do in a million years to anyone or any company, I informed everyone to back off, and forget about Amazon, which we have to this day.
The only problem was Amazon had about $16,000 of our money, which they said that they would “keep†until all possibilities of “returns†were gone. The cancellation occurred in November, they kept the $16,000 until perhaps March, long after all orders were stabilized. After repeated letters and phone calls, they finally sent a check for the amount. There were no refunds. As for the young fellow, he left, realizing that he failed us. And to be honest, his failure was partly my fault, as I didn't monitor "things" enough. I was busy with other things.
The point is that the sharks were, in my view, hoping that we, one of their largest “competitors†in the southeast, were weak financially, and that their “holding†of funds just might put us under. We were not weak, nor are we weak now.
These Amazon fellows are cancerous on our economy, brutal to all, and have gained unfairly for over two decades by having the great advantage over the brick and mortar stores throughout the nation by being able to offer sales without charging sales tax, thereby being advantaged over the locals all over the country. This is just one reason why Amazon has grown so phenomenally over the years. This sales tax advantage is finally being overturned by our legislators, in spite of the lobbying paid for by Amazon to prevent it. Our lobbied legislators, by their slow reaction, have already allowed thousands of brick and mortar stores to go under, some pushed over the edge by this sales tax disadvantage. Unfortunately the unfair legislation has already destroyed so many brick and mortar stores that it perpetuates the advantage to Amazon, by the very fact that there are fewer Brick and mortar stores to compete with them. The harm has been done.
So, back to the quote at the beginning of this post, wherein the Amazon shark is stating how “Florida’s†government doesn’t want to “create†thousands of jobs in Florida, and that they will simply be created in another state, I say to the shark, f@*k off as*#ole, as the process of bringing Amazon into Florida will destroy many thousands of local Florida jobs by putting brick and mortar stores out of business. There will be “more†jobs in the state without Amazon.
And I suspect that the peripheral activity or consequences of the brick and mortar stores, such as face-to-face engagement, and their continuing existence, which softens the Internet impact on local economies by not increasing the vacancies of buildings in the local areas, will further enhance the health of local economies in general.
As for the speed with which some of the people who “must†have next day delivery, don’t forget that your local bookstore can offer “same hour delivery†on most titles. Whereas speed is sometimes important, the desire for it only shows, in my view, questionable value, just as the teenager likes the speed of the automobile. The essence is missed by focus on insignificants.
Admitting that the Internet environment has allowed for greater efficiency is many respects, the shock of it has contributed in many ways to the destabilization of our economy. Our legislators, being impressed by the well-funded lobbyists, and being generally in positions of comfort, and therefore being complacent and slow to head off disasters, have allowed advantages to the mega-Internet retailers, such as the sales tax advantage, thereby increasing the number of brick and mortar failures in the local economies. Progress is good. Unbridled and reckless progress, especially if it advantages only the very few in positions to gain from it, can destroy an economy.
What has happened regarding the Internet in our country is similar to what happened in the late nineteenth century wherein new industries and methods of production and distribution brought out the rush and almost insane aggressions by those in the right positions, as if they were up front at the start of a race, to grab for advantages to establish empires and brutal monopolies. This was fine for a while, but as with these days, the wealth, because of price fixing and shark activities, began to accumulate into the pockets of only a few.
Another note to those who are enthralled by the Internet marketing and distributing environment; they might consider the vulnerability of a system which is structured so that it converges into one point, whether it be manufacturing or distribution and marketing. If the Internet ever went down, which is not the most likely thing I’m sure, imagine the chaos that would result because of it. The fact of having many tens of thousands of locations within which inventory, distribution, and ordering occurs makes the overall scenario one that promotes survivability in the case of any catastrophic event. The gradual destruction of these tens of thousands of brick and mortar stores, which previously warehoused inventory, offered multiple sales and distribution locations, is placing a vulnerable facet in our economy.
In general, greed is and has been at the forefront of all decisions and legislations in America, and in general, our legislators, especially the GOP kind, have held back on decisions to protect the average person from its consequences. We are now seeing the consequences of decades of greed by too many of our legislatures who have lacked the backbone and integrity to refuse the millions in lobbying money from those reaping the rewards of legislation favoring the rich, which allows the sharks in our economy to rape the average person, and to ultimately weaken or destroy an economy.
We, the common people, will suffer more in the coming months and years. We will suffer until we discover how to force our legislators to make decisions critical to controlling the greed which has allowed the one percent to not only accumulate obscene wealth and income, but to destroy the economy in the process of accumulating.
We do not have a democracy. We, the common people, are calmed and placated with religion and lies and the promotion of ignorance about too many things. We are controlled, tricked, manipulated, and finally and always, screwed. We have slept through too many years, and we are going to suffer more because of it.
Did I get off subject? I apologize.
I'm sorry I thought amazon was evil because it didnt charge state sales tax and was destoying small book stores. Its hard to keep up
Amazon uses the promise/threat of jobs to avoid all kinds of taxes, and not just sales taxes. They opened a facility in Columbia/Lexington County SC earlier this year and will soon do so in Spartanburg SC. The Columbia one became a huge political football over corporate welfare/crony capitalism. They play one state against another to get what they want. They eventually got their sales tax exemption for in-state sales, and reduced property taxes as well.
These jobs are low paying, low skill and many are part-time. I realize such jobs are needed, but they are hardly the kind to build a strong economy on.
Quote from: vicupstate on November 02, 2012, 08:46:21 AM
These jobs are low paying, low skill and many are part-time. I realize such jobs are needed, but they are hardly the kind to build a strong economy on.
Exactly. It's like giving companies incentives to companies to build a call center. It may create a few hundred jobs. But they are low wage jobs with high turnover.
all corporations do this and they have a duty to do it to their shareholders. International Paper has their HQ in Memphis, TN. Right now they want a 30 year property tax moratorium in exchange for them building a new HQ and moving 100 more jobs from CT to Memphis. If they don't, they say they will build it over the state line in MS, which hands out these incentives whenever they can.
Quote from: copperfiend on November 02, 2012, 09:29:45 AM
Quote from: vicupstate on November 02, 2012, 08:46:21 AM
These jobs are low paying, low skill and many are part-time. I realize such jobs are needed, but they are hardly the kind to build a strong economy on.
Exactly. It's like giving companies incentives to companies to build a call center. It may create a few hundred jobs. But they are low wage jobs with high turnover.
Well not everyone can be highly skilled somebody has to do these jobs.
Quote from: If_I_Loved_you on November 02, 2012, 11:05:51 AM
Quote from: copperfiend on November 02, 2012, 09:29:45 AM
Quote from: vicupstate on November 02, 2012, 08:46:21 AM
These jobs are low paying, low skill and many are part-time. I realize such jobs are needed, but they are hardly the kind to build a strong economy on.
Exactly. It's like giving companies incentives to companies to build a call center. It may create a few hundred jobs. But they are low wage jobs with high turnover.
Well not everyone can be highly skilled somebody has to do these jobs.
Agreed. 24% of Jacksonville (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/12/1235000.html) residents have bachelor's compared to 25.9% of Floridians and 27.9% of the US as a whole. Not exactly a shining beacon for highly skilled/highly paid hiring. In fact, I'm having a hard time finding a major city with a lower percentage of bachelor's degrees than Jacksonville (so far the only one I'm seeing is Indianapolis EDIT: Memphis, Birmingham, Detroit, Newark, Cleveland...).
Quote from: copperfiend on November 02, 2012, 09:29:45 AM
Quote from: vicupstate on November 02, 2012, 08:46:21 AM
These jobs are low paying, low skill and many are part-time. I realize such jobs are needed, but they are hardly the kind to build a strong economy on.
Exactly. It's like giving companies incentives to companies to build a call center. It may create a few hundred jobs. But they are low wage jobs with high turnover.
The world still needs ditch diggers and burger flippers.
So we should offer incentives to companies so they can offer hundreds of low paying jobs?
Quote from: carpnter on November 02, 2012, 11:27:33 AM
The world still needs ditch diggers and burger flippers.
Just because we "need" them doesn't mean they need to be paid shit and treated like shit and stigmatized as holding the worst jobs on earth.
Furthermore, a lot of the "need" for these people is manufactured....supply and demand is not natural law
Shouldn't the people MAKING products be paid more than the people sitting at desks?
Quote from: copperfiend on November 02, 2012, 11:53:22 AM
So we should offer incentives to companies so they can offer hundreds of low paying jobs?
I'd rather we offer the incentives to get the jobs, than spending money on social services for the homeless and unemployed.
Quote from: ben says on November 02, 2012, 12:18:44 PM
Quote from: carpnter on November 02, 2012, 11:27:33 AM
The world still needs ditch diggers and burger flippers.
Just because we "need" them doesn't mean they need to be paid shit and treated like shit and stigmatized as holding the worst jobs on earth.
Furthermore, a lot of the "need" for these people is manufactured....supply and demand is not natural law
Shouldn't the people MAKING products be paid more than the people sitting at desks?
Good luck with that.
Quote from: ben says on November 02, 2012, 12:18:44 PM
Shouldn't the people MAKING products be paid more than the people sitting at desks?
So jobs that require minimal-to-no skill should pay more than jobs that require experience and education?
Quote from: ben says on November 02, 2012, 12:18:44 PM
Shouldn't the people MAKING products be paid more than the people sitting at desks?
I guess it depends on what they are making. Is it a jet engine or a Big Bacon Classic?
I have no problem with people making jet engines making more money than I do. I'd be a little miffed if the girl making my latte was pulling in more dough than me, however! (If being a coffee jockey meant also making a living wage, I never would have quit Starbucks all those years ago.)
Quote from: tufsu1 on November 01, 2012, 10:21:43 PM
Quote from: cityimrov on November 01, 2012, 09:47:21 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on November 01, 2012, 06:32:14 PM
If that happens we should also be able to collect sales tax off them so they won't have an unfair advantage in the marketplace.
How does a company located thousands of miles away have an unfair advantage over a business located next door?
umm...by not charging (or paying) 7% in sales tax
A lot of states have recently passed laws that force sales tax on online sales. GA passed such a law either this year or last year, so no matter whether you're buying from a bricks and mortar store or on Amazon/Ebay you are going to pay 8%.
Quote from: copperfiend on November 02, 2012, 12:44:11 PM
Quote from: ben says on November 02, 2012, 12:18:44 PM
Shouldn't the people MAKING products be paid more than the people sitting at desks?
I guess it depends on what they are making. Is it a jet engine or a Big Bacon Classic?
Hahaha
Quote from: ben says on November 02, 2012, 12:18:44 PM
Quote from: carpnter on November 02, 2012, 11:27:33 AM
The world still needs ditch diggers and burger flippers.
Just because we "need" them doesn't mean they need to be paid shit and treated like shit and stigmatized as holding the worst jobs on earth.
Furthermore, a lot of the "need" for these people is manufactured....supply and demand is not natural law
Shouldn't the people MAKING products be paid more than the people sitting at desks?
If you want to pay $12 for a burger at a fast food joint you go right ahead and fight for unskilled labor getting paid more than they currently are.
Quote from: simms3 on November 02, 2012, 01:38:55 PM
A lot of states have recently passed laws that force sales tax on online sales. GA passed such a law either this year or last year, so no matter whether you're buying from a bricks and mortar store or on Amazon/Ebay you are going to pay 8%.
Those laws may not withstand a Constitutional challenge under
Quill v. North Dakota. The Commerce Clause grants the federal government the power to regulate interstate commerce, and absent some sort of physical presense, states cannot impose a sales tax collection responsibility on an out-of-state retailer. A retail store or distribution center are obvious examples of physical presence, but states have tried to argue that independent webstites that refer buyers to Amazon count as well.
In my opinion, it's going to take a federal law like the Main Street Fairness Act to override
Quill and level the playing field between online only retailers like Amazon, Overstock, and eBay, and brick-and-mortar retailers like Barnes & Noble, Wal-Mart, and smaller merchants like Chamblin's. In the meantime, the proper method of taxing online sales is to have the customer pay use tax on his or her purchase, which unfortunately no one ever does.
Form DR-15MO: http://dor.myflorida.com/dor/forms/2010/dr15mo.pdf (http://dor.myflorida.com/dor/forms/2010/dr15mo.pdf)
In Florida you're legally required to proactively remit 7% sales tax on any online purchases (e.g. if I buy a $5,000 refrigerator, when I send in the payment for all the taxes I've collected from guests this month, I have to throw in an extra $350 to cover the tax I didn't pay on that refrigerator I bought from a company in another state). That's how it works for businesses at least.
Given that Jacksonville lacks protections for its LGBT community I'd say the chance Amazon moving here is unlikely.
Quote from: Mathew1056 on November 03, 2012, 05:57:21 PM
Given that Jacksonville lacks protections for its LGBT community I'd say the chance Amazon moving here is unlikely.
As a compassionate outsider to the LGBT community it would seem to me that the very best course of action would be for the local LGBT community to beg, borrow, push or pull EVERY LGBT friendly company in America to open up here. The overwhelming sheer numbers would force change at every level.
Quote from: fsquid on November 02, 2012, 09:51:27 AM
all corporations do this and they have a duty to do it to their shareholders. International Paper has their HQ in Memphis, TN. Right now they want a 30 year property tax moratorium in exchange for them building a new HQ and moving 100 more jobs from CT to Memphis. If they don't, they say they will build it over the state line in MS, which hands out these incentives whenever they can.
They have a duty to rook the public for their personal gain.? WOW! Do I have a duty to fake a disability to get a check from the government?
Quote from: If_I_Loved_you on November 02, 2012, 11:05:51 AM
Quote from: copperfiend on November 02, 2012, 09:29:45 AM
Quote from: vicupstate on November 02, 2012, 08:46:21 AM
These jobs are low paying, low skill and many are part-time. I realize such jobs are needed, but they are hardly the kind to build a strong economy on.
Exactly. It's like giving companies incentives to companies to build a call center. It may create a few hundred jobs. But they are low wage jobs with high turnover.
Well not everyone can be highly skilled somebody has to do these jobs.
Nothing says we have to provide public dollars for these jobs, when then don't raise the standard of living. If every locality refrained from doing this, they would make their location decisions based on genuine business related factors, not bribes.
For local and state governments it is race to the bottom that robs the public for the gain of a few.
To show how extreme it can get, SC paid $900 mm (not a typo) to get Boeing to open a plant in Charleston. That is the approximate cost of the plant. SC essentially built it's plane plant for them.