(http://www.lonelyplanet.com/blog/wordpress_uploads/2012/05/4785680.jpg)
Visioning for Hemming Plaza is almost complete.
According to channel 4 news tonight, this meeting is going to be the 'final nail in the coffin' of anyone having fun in Hemming Plaza. Hell, where's the ACLU when we need them? The plan appears to continue to be removal of all benches and tables, AND MAKING GAME PLAYING ILLEGAL!
Note to visitors, Come to Jacksonville, but DON'T try and go fishing, don't touch the water, don't throw a net, don't carry a pole or tackle box. Don't come to Jacksonville with checkers, with cards, with marbles, or God Forbid, Monopoly. There will be no skate boards, no roller blades, no roller skates, no pogo sticks, no unicycles and no bicycles. Do not sit on the concrete, not on the retaining walls, not on a box, not with a fox, not in a house, not with a mouse, do not sit here or there, do not sit anywhere! We do not want you unemployed man, we do not like your dreadful tan. And while your at it, wipe that damn stupid smile off of your face, this is a city and we're serious!
Council Member Public Meeting - Hemming Plaza
October 23, 2012
3:30 p.m.
City Hall
117 W. Duval St., Suite 425
Conference Room B
Notice is hereby given that the Council Member E. Denise Lee, Council Member Bill Gulliford and Council Member Don Redman are calling at meeting on Tuesday October 23 at 3:30 p.m. in City Council Conference Room B on the 4th floor, Suite 425 of City Hall at 117 West Duval Street. The purpose of the meeting is to discuss the proposed Hemming Plaza ordinance that would restrict card games in the park as well as authorize the removal of benches, tables and chairs, diseased trees and spending CIP dollars to repair planters and flower beds. All interested parties are welcome to attend.
I agree. This needs national attention, and quite frankly, should bring embarrassment to the town. Banning games? Telling people they can't sit down in a park?? I've never even heard of something like that.
This is something the new DIA should be able to weigh on before a decision is made. I was stopped by a DIA board member today and that member expressed his concerns and asked that we attend this meeting.
Hemming Park is a dynamic thing. It is alive with people. Some want to remove the life. The current population occupying the park is a reflection of reality. They remind us every day of the societal and economic predicament into which we've all fallen. They remind us with honesty, not by their intention to honesty, but by their very existence.
To remove them, to sterilize the park, would be an unfortunate thing. By their presence, action toward real change in their predicaments can eventually occur. In the end, most of us prefer honesty and the truth of a situation.
Darn. I know they can't hold these meetings at night, but so many of us simply can't make meetings during working hours.
I agree it is too bad they are removing the benches and banning games. Definitely a lot less attractive. The one positive thing out of this, is maybe it will prevent all the homeless people from congregating there as they do every day. Its not like I would even have a seat available at hemming plaza during the day, unless I wanted to ask a homeless person to wake up or sit between homeless people.
Ron looks a little different than he usually does in this video :P
http://www.news4jax.com/news/No-more-games-in-Hemming-Plaza/-/475880/17043746/-/awtfa8/-/index.html
(http://i.imgur.com/yz3Uo.jpg)
Quote from: Jax_Spartan on October 18, 2012, 10:58:07 PM
I agree it is too bad they are removing the benches and banning games. Definitely a lot less attractive. The one positive thing out of this, is maybe it will prevent all the homeless people from congregating there as they do every day. Its not like I would even have a seat available at hemming plaza during the day, unless I wanted to ask a homeless person to wake up or sit between homeless people.
I have seen homeless people sleeping on bridge piers and snuggled up on the paved sidewalk next to brick walls. Do we really think benches or chairs not being available is going to deter the homeless, already accustomed to going without comfort? The only people that will be deterred are the visitors to Hemming Plaza who might want to linger but, instead, are directed to hurry about their business and get out. Homeless people will find a sheet of cardboard or an old blanket and make do.
Basically, the plan is to turn Hemming Plaza into a glorified vacant lot. Like the rest of downtown.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 18, 2012, 09:06:08 PM
This is something the new DIA should be able to weigh on before a decision is made. I was stopped by a DIA board member today and that member expressed his concerns and asked that we attend this meeting.
Who was the DIA board member? Let's just hope that they don't want to remain anonymous.
This is a joke.
May I suggest that everyone bring their own chairs. We can play musical chairs. Practice for the real thing. If the Metro-Jetro crowd turns out for this subcommittee meeting they are going to need a bigger room.
May I also suggest everyone look up 2012-202.
DIA -Downtown Inspires Action!
Hey! On a side note. Anyone want to Make a scene Downtown on our Waterway? Shoot me a PM. Just 7 or 8 hours out. If it turns out to be a solo then no problem. I'll make it a tactical urban epoch kayaking paddle.
I am Downtown and why you aren't.
Quote from: Jax_Spartan on October 18, 2012, 10:58:07 PM
I agree it is too bad they are removing the benches and banning games. Definitely a lot less attractive. The one positive thing out of this, is maybe it will prevent all the homeless people from congregating there as they do every day. Its not like I would even have a seat available at hemming plaza during the day, unless I wanted to ask a homeless person to wake up or sit between homeless people.
If your goal is to prevent the homeless from enjoying a public park, moving benches isn't going to achieve that goal. Especially a park loaded with retaining walls. What it will do is waste public money and result in a space that is less attractive to the people this committee would like to see frequent the space more. If someone's focus is more on homeless than finding easy and affordable options to generate more activity within the space, then they should be helping the mayor with the day center project moreso than sitting on the park committee.
Quote from: Jax_Spartan on October 18, 2012, 10:58:07 PM
I agree it is too bad they are removing the benches and banning games. Definitely a lot less attractive. The one positive thing out of this, is maybe it will prevent all the homeless people from congregating there as they do every day. Its not like I would even have a seat available at hemming plaza during the day, unless I wanted to ask a homeless person to wake up or sit between homeless people.
So homeless people use the park? The key word is 'PEOPLE,' people use the park. If we make the park less inviting to PEOPLE, it will be less inviting to ALL PEOPLE. Who is going to check the ID'S and what will the bar be in order to 'achieve' acceptable admission?
Here's a possible check list:
____ Owns their own transportation
____ Dressed in a suit or dress
____ Income above $10,000 per year
____ Income above $30,000 per year
____ Income above $75,000 per year
____ Bathes at least weekly
____ Bathes at least daily
____ Drinks
____ Smokes
____ Chews
____ Smells like 'Old Spice'
____ Smells like 'Old Socks'
____ Knows how many bubbles are in a bar of soap
____ FINAL SCORE - at least 4 positive check marks for entry - we get to choose which ones are 'positive.'
I've been surprised that our lmayor and council have not taken into account one basic reasons that Hemming Park has become a hang-out place for people to play games and sleep on benches. It is now surrounded with government buildings instead of vibrant retail.
Small retail shops, classy department stores, upscale restaurants have all been replaced. The reasons for coming downtown now are limited to working in or doing business in city offices, courthouses, or public libraries. Brave souls like Ron are there and working hard to make a difference. There are a couple of lunchtime and fast food restaurants, and a jewelery store but nothing that says "Come, Shop, Spend" Get Ennis' book and read about how wonderful Cohen Brothers was, what a magnet for business. There were lots of great places like that and Hemming Park was crowded with shoppers, business people, children going to school or shopping with parents on weekends. It was the center of Jacksonville.
You know, it could be again if we put our money and energy into the right things instead of city run day care centers.
I was chattin with a co worker who is from Chicago, and I was asking him how they handle their homeless situation. One thing he mentioned about the homeless. and I did also, is that they are scared of large crowds of people. You still haev a bold few that stick around, but when there are large crowds of people, the homeless hide. He even agreed if there were more people downtown, hemming plaza spefically, you would naturally see less homeless. Our homeless is not the problem (in a sense). Its the lack of people and activity is the problem.
QuoteIts the lack of people and activity is the problem.
Yes. Hemming Plaza's perceived problems can easily be resolved by programming activities in and around the space.
Quote from: Jumpinjack on October 19, 2012, 08:49:34 AM
I've been surprised that our lmayor and council have not taken into account one basic reasons that Hemming Park has become a hang-out place for people to play games and sleep on benches. It is now surrounded with government buildings instead of vibrant retail.
Small retail shops, classy department stores, upscale restaurants have all been replaced. The reasons for coming downtown now are limited to working in or doing business in city offices, courthouses, or public libraries. Brave souls like Ron are there and working hard to make a difference. There are a couple of lunchtime and fast food restaurants, and a jewelery store but nothing that says "Come, Shop, Spend" Get Ennis' book and read about how wonderful Cohen Brothers was, what a magnet for business. There were lots of great places like that and Hemming Park was crowded with shoppers, business people, children going to school or shopping with parents on weekends. It was the center of Jacksonville.
You know, it could be again if we put our money and energy into the right things instead of city run day care centers.
When I worked downtown in the late 60's and mid 80's there was not a problem with Hemming Plaza. There were large numbers of working people, shoppers - especially those entering and leaving May Cohens into and from the park - and people waiting for the bus. So Jumpin Jack you are absolutely correct. We need to draw people downtown and create that kind of synergy. Removing more benches and chairs and banning games is not the answer. This is beyond stupid. Will we survive the jokers who are poorly running this city? A 12 year old would have better ideas.
One idea I have had is bringing students from Lavilla School of the Arts and Douglas Anderson there to perform during lunch time. How hard would that be? Those schools are basically downtown and it would be great for them to be able to show off their talents!
I agree with everyone it makes the park much less valuable. My point is the park has already reached the point where "visitors are deterred" and "is less inviting to ALL PEOPLE," at least during the day. I would never even think to journey near that park during the day because there is just a mob of 30 homeless people. If there was only one or two that would be one thing, but typically almost every bench or seat is already filled with a homeless person and it is not comfortable for the average visitor. I would be willing to gander if you traveled to Hemming plaza at noon every week day next week, you would be asked for money a majority of your visits and feel very uncomfortable.
If the city can come up with a strategy to open a center or at least relocate the homeless people, then I would say leave the benches and allow gaming. If nothing ever takes place, in my opinion the park is already lost for the most part.
(Now during Art Walk or planned events on the weekend, its another story and I enjoy visiting the plaza.)
Makes sense Jax¬_S. The current occupiers, by their overwhelming or commandeering presence, prevent its use by the casual city core visitor, and by the nearby workers and residents. The park is already destroyed, at least for the majority of the population who might wish to use it, which is unfair to them, and favors completely the “occupiersâ€.
Obviously something must be done. I’m encouraged that we are engaging the proposed idea of building a day center for these people, as pushed by mayor Brown and promoted by others over the years, so that they can have an alternative place to go. I expect that any new day facility will not remove “all†the current occupying group from the park because some might prefer the natural feel of Hemming Park as compared to the artificiality of a day facility.
But this partial success would be quite acceptable, as it would finally allow the local visitors and workers to begin to use the park, thereby establishing a momentum which would convey to the former occupiers that the park can no longer be thought of as their daytime camp.
The very fact of there being a day center will offer a legitimate mechanism of pressuring the former occupiers to exit the park, and will give less validity to any legal action by rights activists against efforts to remove the “campersâ€.
But.... yes. I prefer to keep the tables, chairs, and benches, and to allow the gaming to continue, as these things provide the essence of a park. They should also allow gaming at any new day center.
At this point, the new day center is the key to a resolution of the park problem.
Quote from: Jax_Spartan on October 19, 2012, 11:26:12 PM
I agree with everyone it makes the park much less valuable. My point is the park has already reached the point where "visitors are deterred" and "is less inviting to ALL PEOPLE," at least during the day.
It hasn't reached that point yet. However, making it less inviting to all people will push it that way.
QuoteI would never even think to journey near that park during the day because there is just a mob of 30 homeless people. If there was only one or two that would be one thing, but typically almost every bench or seat is already filled with a homeless person and it is not comfortable for the average visitor. I would be willing to gander if you traveled to Hemming plaza at noon every week day next week, you would be asked for money a majority of your visits and feel very uncomfortable.
I cut through the park routinely and have never been asked for change in it. From my experience, you're more likely to get hit up for change in isolated situations on the surrounding streets.
QuoteIf the city can come up with a strategy to open a center or at least relocate the homeless people, then I would say leave the benches and allow gaming. If nothing ever takes place, in my opinion the park is already lost for the most part.
The city is coming up with a strategy. There's an 11 or 13 page thread on this forum discussing day center locations that the Mayor's Office is currently considering.
Quote(Now during Art Walk or planned events on the weekend, its another story and I enjoy visiting the plaza.)
This is the problem and the area of a solution. In reality, there is really no reason for most to visit this space. Most of the retail has been converted into office space that doesn't integrate well with the park, creating significant areas of dead space with limited foot traffic. There's also limited programming. The solution isn't to remove amenities (btw, what happened to all of the benches in the area? I had to wait for someone at Laura & Adams one day and noticed you can't even sit down).
The solution is to flood the space with a mix of activities that draws a mix of people and demographics on a regular basis. Do that, and the seats and shade become larger amenities than they are today. Long term, it should be to repurpose many of the adjacent city owned buildings to include ground level uses that open up and integrate with the space on all frontages.
Quote from: ronchamblin on October 20, 2012, 03:04:04 AM
Makes sense Jax¬_S. The current occupiers, by their overwhelming or commandeering presence, prevent its use by the casual city core visitor, and by the nearby workers and residents. The park is already destroyed, at least for the majority of the population who might wish to use it, which is unfair to them, and favors completely the “occupiersâ€.
I'd argue that they don't. The reason it isn't used by casual city core visitors is because there's no reason for them to be there for an extended period of time. With your meter ticking, you're definitely not going there to hang out for the sake of sitting under a tree. Need proof, just visit the public plaza literally across the street, in front of the federal courthouse. It's pristine and empty of homeless, the casual visitor, and everyone else. This tends to point to an area that isn't designed well at the pedestrian scale level and one that is ripe with uses that don't feed people into or interact well with the space.
QuoteObviously something must be done. I’m encouraged that we are engaging the proposed idea of building a day center for these people, as pushed by mayor Brown and promoted by others over the years, so that they can have an alternative place to go. I expect that any new day facility will not remove “all†the current occupying group from the park because some might prefer the natural feel of Hemming Park as compared to the artificiality of a day facility.
Programming and logical integration with surrounding spaces at the pedestrian scale level is the answer. It really works. On the other hand, it's been proven that making the area more hostile to the average resident and visitor won't.
QuoteBut this partial success would be quite acceptable, as it would finally allow the local visitors and workers to begin to use the park, thereby establishing a momentum which would convey to the former occupiers that the park can no longer be thought of as their daytime camp.
The very fact of there being a day center will offer a legitimate mechanism of pressuring the former occupiers to exit the park, and will give less validity to any legal action by rights activists against efforts to remove the “campersâ€.
The day center will help but people aren't really going to use that space into its worth visiting. We should take a book from the page of cities across the country and flood it with activity and self generating uses.
QuoteBut.... yes. I prefer to keep the tables, chairs, and benches, and to allow the gaming to continue, as these things provide the essence of a park. They should also allow gaming at any new day center.
At this point, the new day center is the key to a resolution of the park problem.
Speaking of the gaming, the gaming discussion bothers me racially. For some reason, I feel if it were any other race with old guys out there playing chess or whatever, it would be encouraged and promoted, like they do in other communities.
QuoteThings to do in Miami: Little Havana
(http://www.graylinemiami.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Little-Havana-Dominos-300x225.jpg)
Visitors should also check out Maximo Gomez Park, nicknamed Domino Park for the favorite pastime of the Cuban retirees that congregate here during the day. Games are strictly for members only, but this is a great place to sit and observe some heated domino matches. After this brief tour of the barrio, it’s time to get down to business? Here’s a list of things every visitor should do in Little Havana:
http://www.graylinemiami.com/blog/index.php/things-to-do-in-miami-little-havana/
Can anyone explain why this space doesn't fill up with people?
(http://www.aiaorlando.com/newsletters/2006-2008-images/june06/jax-federal.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Neighborhoods/Downtowns-Historic-Buildings/i-qDSs4vx/0/M/P1350440-M.jpg)
It is across the street from Hemming Plaza. It has benches, shade trees, planters, and it is well maintained. There are no homeless, vagrants, occupiers, and black guys playing chess. Nevertheless, people still don't hang out here? Does anyone think it could have a similar problem impacting it that Hemming Plaza has as well? To see, understand, and address the much larger problem, we have to get passed the focusing on the current users of the spaces.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 20, 2012, 07:45:54 AM
Can anyone explain why this space doesn't fill up with people?
(http://www.aiaorlando.com/newsletters/2006-2008-images/june06/jax-federal.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Neighborhoods/Downtowns-Historic-Buildings/i-qDSs4vx/0/M/P1350440-M.jpg)
It is across the street from Hemming Plaza. It has benches, shade trees, planters, and it is well maintained. There are no homeless, vagrants, occupiers, and black guys playing chess. Nevertheless, people still don't hang out here? Does anyone think it could have a similar problem impacting it that Hemming Plaza has as well? To see, understand, and address the much larger problem, we have to get passed the focusing on the current users of the spaces.
lol @ black guys playing chess!
QuoteQuote from: ronchamblin on Today at 03:04:04 AM
Makes sense Jax¬_S. The current occupiers, by their overwhelming or commandeering presence, prevent its use by the casual city core visitor, and by the nearby workers and residents. The park is already destroyed, at least for the majority of the population who might wish to use it, which is unfair to them, and favors completely the “occupiersâ€.
QuoteQuote from: Jax_Spartan on Yesterday at 11:26:12 PM
I agree with everyone it makes the park much less valuable. My point is the park has already reached the point where "visitors are deterred" and "is less inviting to ALL PEOPLE," at least during the day.
How soon some things are forgotten. It is often way to easy to remember the issues you choose to focus on and forget the reality of things. Here's is your reminder:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,14765.0.html (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,14765.0.html)
Watch the video. I do not see armed homeless guards stopping anyone from using the park. I see lots of people, yes just people, of all races and economic backgrounds, using
their park.
A few have an issue with the homeless no matter where they are. The recent issue with the Armory shows this very well. When you really read what was being said, it wasn't just the location, it was that anything was being done at all even close to "their" community. Thankfully, not all feel that way, but sometimes it unfortunately seems like the majority. While the Armory idea was handled badly, the basic idea is sound and what is needed Downtown. A pilot program set up in a usable building, to keep the costs in line, to prove the idea works and that everyone of us benefits.
If our leaders really have their minds set on believing that removing benches and the like will fix the homeless problem, perhaps we should let them try. What they will end up with is what many mistakenly claim we have already, a park and downtown filled with no one but the homeless. Maybe then they will listen to reason. Or at least the public will and a new set of councilmen will get elected.
(If someone who can wants to put the actual video up here, it would be great, I'm too tech dumb to do it, so this link is the best I can do. )
Quote from: sheclown on April 21, 2012, 11:32:17 AM
(http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/sheclown/DSCN2372-1.jpg)
(http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/sheclown/DSCN2366-1.jpg)
(http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/sheclown/DSCN2363-1.jpg)
(http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/sheclown/DSCN2357-1.jpg)
(http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/sheclown/DSCN2351-1.jpg)
I ain't scared.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 20, 2012, 07:25:19 AM
Speaking of the gaming, the gaming discussion bothers me racially. For some reason, I feel if it were any other race with old guys out there playing chess or whatever, it would be encouraged and promoted, like they do in other communities.
I thought the same thing. It would be really interesting to do an experiment after this passes. Every day some white guys in suit who work around there should go eat in the park and play a quick game of chess or dominoes. See how many times they're asked to stop.
When you start to think about things like that, you realize that you're taking away the activities, and not the people.
Don't forget persons ..... this Tuesday..... to offer your persuasion on the issue:
Notice is hereby given that the Council Member E. Denise Lee, Council Member Bill Gulliford and Council Member Don Redman are calling at meeting on Tuesday October 23 at 3:30 p.m. in City Council Conference Room B on the 4th floor, Suite 425 of City Hall at 117 West Duval Street. The purpose of the meeting is to discuss the proposed Hemming Plaza ordinance that would restrict card games in the park as well as authorize the removal of benches, tables and chairs, diseased trees and spending CIP dollars to repair planters and flower beds. All interested parties are welcome to attend.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 20, 2012, 07:25:19 AM
Speaking of the gaming, the gaming discussion bothers me racially. For some reason, I feel if it were any other race with old guys out there playing chess or whatever, it would be encouraged and promoted, like they do in other communities.
QuoteThings to do in Miami: Little Havana
(http://www.graylinemiami.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Little-Havana-Dominos-300x225.jpg)
Visitors should also check out Maximo Gomez Park, nicknamed Domino Park for the favorite pastime of the Cuban retirees that congregate here during the day. Games are strictly for members only, but this is a great place to sit and observe some heated domino matches. After this brief tour of the barrio, it’s time to get down to business? Here’s a list of things every visitor should do in Little Havana:
http://www.graylinemiami.com/blog/index.php/things-to-do-in-miami-little-havana/
I agree 100% Lake, in fact if we identified an area of town where large numbers of unemployed Black citizens congregated along sidewalks and storefronts I bet some of these same committee members would be suggesting a 'park' where everyone could go... This whole thing stinks to high heaven and I hope a swift accounting is made of the misguided leadership at the top.
Quote from: sheclown on October 20, 2012, 09:21:28 AM
I ain't scared.
I ain't either Sheclown, I'm mortified! Hopefully the public will see and understand that the bums are INSIDE the St. James Building, not across the street from it.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on October 20, 2012, 04:38:47 PM
Quote from: sheclown on October 20, 2012, 09:21:28 AM
I ain't scared.
I ain't either Sheclown, I'm mortified! Hopefully the public will see and understand that the bums are INSIDE the St. James Building, not across the street from it.
nice.
It is very disheartening to see members of Council proposing to spend taxpayer dollars to destroy this space.
Honestly, It is too bad these individuals cannot be immediately terminated.
Who was it that said “Truth is Beauty, and Beauty is Truthâ€, or something similar? Was it some poet of the 19th century, Keats .. or Byron? .. or was it Dare, of the 21st? ;) In any case, the recognition and appreciation of truth should be for us, in this 21st century, and in this time of falsehoods, lies, and deceptions, a refreshing thing, a beautiful thing, because it is rare in this culture of greed and lack of concern over the unfortunate in society, those who’ve either been recovering for many decades from the legacy and momentum of slavery and discrimination, or those who, having been lowly workers, have had to endure the consequences of a broken political and economic system with such pain that they have lost their jobs, their homes, and their self-respect, and for some, their sanity.
Although we might be headed in a direction to provide a day center for those in our city who currently have few places to go and few things to do, we have not yet completed the project. Given the probability that completion of the center will provide an alternative for most of those who now inhabit Hemming Park most of the day, every day, the planned new center is an encouraging development. The new center, if built right, and operated with some degree of concern for assisting those in need with long-term recovery tools, will go a long way in reducing the number of needy who usually socialize at Hemming Park, thereby providing opportunity for its use by any casual visitor.
Therefore, why destroy Hemming Park now, right when we’ve set ourselves on the path of providing a place for most of the park “occupiers†to go? I suggest that we proceed with the day center, and perform minimal work at the park, perhaps trimming or removing the unhealthy oaks, and planting new ones. We should never allow the park to be without oaks, as they add a beautiful ambience to it, and shade for visitors in the hot summer. I would like to focus upon anyone who would suggest that the park should be without oaks, just as I attempt to look upon those who perform idiotic maneuvers in traffic, or who fail to make sensible ones. I’m always curious to see what borderline idiocy looks like.
The current condition in the park, although somewhat of a nuisance until the day center is completed, offers a truth about our society, about our community, which translates into a beautiful scene for all to see. Hiding the truth of any societal suffering, while allowing some individuals the comforts born of illusions and ignorance, only perpetuates the suffering and the inequalities, and prolongs the solutions necessary for the their elimination.
Therefore, I vote to leave alone those who play the games, who sit at the tables and upon the benches, who enjoy their friends, because they are, by their very existence, not only offering a reminder of our society’s condition, but also offering us a truth beyond words, and therefore a scene of great beauty to those who possess the sensitivity to see it.
Any current excesses in the number of inhabitants of the park will be resolved along the way as the day center is completed, as more residents, workers, and visitors occupy it, and as we infuse it with more activities over time. A momentum of park normalization will become the force which will see the park enjoyed by all who wish to do so. Hemming Park, if allowed to retain its amenities of tables, benches, and card games will, by these freedoms, evolve into a park all can use, and all can be proud of.
John Keats. 1795â€"1821
625. Ode on a Grecian Urn
THOU still unravish'd bride of quietness,
Thou foster-child of Silence and slow Time,
Sylvan historian, who canst thus express
A flowery tale more sweetly than our rhyme:
What leaf-fringed legend haunts about thy shape 5
Of deities or mortals, or of both,
In Tempe or the dales of Arcady?
What men or gods are these? What maidens loth?
What mad pursuit? What struggle to escape?
What pipes and timbrels? What wild ecstasy? 10
Heard melodies are sweet, but those unheard
Are sweeter; therefore, ye soft pipes, play on;
Not to the sensual ear, but, more endear'd,
Pipe to the spirit ditties of no tone:
Fair youth, beneath the trees, thou canst not leave 15
Thy song, nor ever can those trees be bare;
Bold Lover, never, never canst thou kiss,
Though winning near the goalâ€"yet, do not grieve;
She cannot fade, though thou hast not thy bliss,
For ever wilt thou love, and she be fair! 20
Ah, happy, happy boughs! that cannot shed
Your leaves, nor ever bid the Spring adieu;
And, happy melodist, unwearièd,
For ever piping songs for ever new;
More happy love! more happy, happy love! 25
For ever warm and still to be enjoy'd,
For ever panting, and for ever young;
All breathing human passion far above,
That leaves a heart high-sorrowful and cloy'd,
A burning forehead, and a parching tongue. 30
Who are these coming to the sacrifice?
To what green altar, O mysterious priest,
Lead'st thou that heifer lowing at the skies,
And all her silken flanks with garlands drest?
What little town by river or sea-shore, 35
Or mountain-built with peaceful citadel,
Is emptied of its folk, this pious morn?
And, little town, thy streets for evermore
Will silent be; and not a soul, to tell
Why thou art desolate, can e'er return. 40
O Attic shape! fair attitude! with brede
Of marble men and maidens overwrought,
With forest branches and the trodden weed;
Thou, silent form! dost tease us out of thought
As doth eternity: Cold Pastoral! 45
When old age shall this generation waste,
Thou shalt remain, in midst of other woe
Than ours, a friend to man, to whom thou say'st,
'Beauty is truth, truth beauty,â€"that is all
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.'
Or to put it in today's parlance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NwP3wes4M8
And the anticipation is better than any reality could ever be.
And art, as it evokes the great passion of anticipation without the warts of real life, is more "real" than "life".
But getting back to the conversation at hand, Ron I couldn't agree with you more.
Back in the early 70s, Jacksonville found itself having to defend unjust actions against "vagrants" all the way to the Supreme Court. Jacksonville lost.
We've talked about this before on this forum. "Papachristou v. Jacksonville"
QuoteFacts
Papachristou was one of eight defendants who were convicted for violating a Jacksonville, Florida vagrancy ordinance which forbade a large number of activities including "wandering or strolling around from place to place without any lawful purpose or object". The defendants were charged with several violations under the ordinance: being vagabonds, loitering, being common thieves, disorderly loitering, and resisting arrest.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papachristou_v._Jacksonville#section_3
Opinion of the Court
QuoteThe court held that the vagrancy ordinance was unconstitutionally vague because it gave too much arbitrary power to the police. The court found that the laws could potentially criminalize a variety of innocent activities, such as "Nightwalking," or "habitually living 'without visible means of support.'" A valid law, the Court found, needed to be clearly written and evenly administered.
Will the unlawful playing cards be "evenly administered" throughout Jacksonville? Or are we heading down this path once again?
Thanks sheclown. I suspected Keats. And I had forgotten the court issue. I cannot be at the Tuesday meeting, but perhaps someone will offer to those at the meeting a reminder of the decision. I expect that in the end, we will find that games and dominoes will continue in the park. I like seeing people playing games and such in the park. It's real. It's life in the park.
Quote from: Noone on October 19, 2012, 01:51:51 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on October 18, 2012, 09:06:08 PM
This is something the new DIA should be able to weigh on before a decision is made. I was stopped by a DIA board member today and that member expressed his concerns and asked that we attend this meeting.
Who was the DIA board member? Let's just hope that they don't want to remain anonymous.
Is this the biggest red flag or what? There were a number of us there from metrojax that participated in the first Board meeting of our new Downtown Authority. There are 9 Board members. Does Mr. Or Mrs. Anonymous want to remain anonymous on this HUGE issue?
Boyer and Love showed up to be on the record for the first Board meeting. Didn't have to but did. Will anyone from DIA show up at this 3:30 special meeting of the gaming commission even if it's in their own personal capacity to offer their own personal position?
Emailed the 9 new Board members of the DIA and heard back from 4. Anybody going? 60 minutes out.
Fieldafm will be live blogging the meeting.