Downtown Revitalization: Oklahoma City
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/2022682905_LBkw2VN-M.jpg)
Metro Jacksonville visits a city Jacksonville's size and scale that has been recently recognized as the most "recession proof city in America": Oklahoma City
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2012-oct-downtown-revitalization-oklahoma-city
Amazing city...in Oklahoma. Geography wise from a quality of life perspective it would seem there is nothing going for the city, but they have managed to make it an attractive, progressive place...and it still retains its conservative roots.
I was throughly impressed with OKC during my visit last summer. Portland and Austin use to be just cities you knew the name of, but now you hear great things about them all the time. OKC will be the same way very soon. A little more time to let the word get out, is all it will take.
I would have never thought that anywhere in Oklahoma would be somewhere I would want to live, but I would have no problem living in OKC. It has a lot to offer and is surprisingly tolerant compared to my preconceived notions.
To those that think consolidation is Jacksonville's drawback, pay close attention to the land area and population figures listed in this article. OKC is not consolidated, it spreads across 2 or 3 counties I believe. But it is a large sprawled out city with low density, just like Jax. YET, all the MAPS votes were passed, when very few people even lived downtown when the votes were taken.
That is one excuse Jax just needs to drop.
I've always looked at the initial MAPS and Delaney's BJP as similar initiatives. Both resulted in massive public projects in our downtown areas. However, the basics of simple pedestrian scale design and integration directly led to OKC's projects having a greater impact. Many of their projects were clustered together within a compact setting, creating significant change virtually overnight (ie. Bricktown area) while we spread our investments out too thin, in a downtown we treat as being over two miles in length. That simple difference can create momentum for additional quality-of-life enhancements or stall the original push.
And despite all the negatives we harp on about Jax, the only difference between our potential and OKC's is the creative investment in the core. Jax still has much more to offer.
Oklahoma City is probably the closest US city comparable city to Jax that I can think of; Especially when you consider that both have a lot of square mileage, similar city population, and one pro sports team in town. Our main shortfall here in Jax is lack of DT residential, which is basically synonymous, and will lead to more DT attractions.
^I don't think having 2,500 DT residents is the shortfall we treat it as. OKC didn't have anyone downtown when the initial MAPS passed. Plus, we have twice as many residents downtown today than we had in the late 1970s when downtown still had May-Cohens, Sears, Ivey's, Furchgott's, JCPenney, and Levy's still in operation. We can immediately get passed the downtown population issue through the use of providing better connectivity with the 100,000 urban core residents surrounding it. I believe we have the potential to do just about anything we want if we put our heads to it.
that looks like a fun place to be.
Another city that has turned a ditch into an attraction. I bet you will not see dolphins jumping and playing in that water. Nice pics though.
Quote from: fsujax on October 17, 2012, 09:12:53 AM
Another city that has turned a ditch into an attraction. I bet you will not see dolphins jumping and playing in that water. Nice pics though.
True, but then there are no alligators or bull sharks in them either!
I think the Deep Deuce Grille might want to consider a name change.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on October 17, 2012, 10:07:11 AM
I think the Deep Deuce Grille might want to consider a name change.
Too true!
Lived there during 97-98 was a great place to live, looks even better now
Quote from: Adam W on October 17, 2012, 10:08:20 AM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on October 17, 2012, 10:07:11 AM
I think the Deep Deuce Grille might want to consider a name change.
Too true!
Some things get lost in the translation when we speak of incredibly historic places with names that have been corrupted in modern slang. The "Deep Second" later called "The Deep Deuce," was the largest black neighborhood in Oklahoma City in the 1940's. It was the home of Jazz legends such as Charlie Christian and Jimmy Rushing. Ralph Waldo Ellison, born in Oklahoma City in 1914, wrote of the Deep Deuce in his book Trading Twelves. A lot of the old neighborhood is gone, but unlike LaVilla, Brooklyn and Fairfield locally, the demolitions were spotty and it's still easy to find some of that old fabric that made the place special. If you REALLY want to know more about the Deep Deuce check out 'Doug Dawg's' Blog: http://dougdawg.blogspot.com/2006/12/deep-deuce-history.html
To be honest, while making the article, looking at the imagery provided and google earth aerials, the first thing that popped into my mind about Deep Deuce was LaVilla. Save for a few isolated buildings, the black culture of Deep Deuce and LaVilla are both forever gone, in my opinion.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 17, 2012, 11:12:51 AM
To be honest, while making the article, looking at the imagery provided and google earth aerials, the first thing that popped into my mind about Deep Deuce was LaVilla. Save for a few isolated buildings, the black culture of Deep Deuce and LaVilla are both forever gone, in my opinion.
The parallels between LaVilla and Deep Deuce are pretty striking. You're right that most of the original building stock was destroyed.
During my OKC trip, the Automobile Alley area reminded me of the potential for the Springfield Warehouse district. The Canal running through Lower Bricktown shows what McCoy's or Hogans Creek COULD be like, only they would be more authentic since they are natural creeks instead of man made. Myriad Gardens could be a great example for the Springfield Parks. Bricktown is a great role model for what the Sports district could transform into as well.
There really is no better city that Jax can be inspired by, yet be SOMEWHAT in the same league of, than OKC. At least among the places I have been.
Yeah, on a second look, I believe you are correct Lake. A large chunk of the Deep Deuce was wiped out by I-235 which laid an angled spear right through the old neighborhood. In looking for the old building stock, I wandered along the tracks east of Automobile Alley and found a fair amount of the old buildings still in place. East of the freeway along 2nd street it appears they have been removing building stock there too, but have left the larger public buildings in place. We didn't even do that in LaVilla, however going over the aerials it is pretty striking.
It seems odd, a twist of history, but somewhat magical at the same time to see that they have reincarnated the neighborhood as an urbanists utopia. It speaks to what any of our 3 demolished neighborhoods could be if we didn't fear progress. I would add to vicupstate's statements about what 'could-be' locally that OKC concentrated their renewal, I not sure spreading ours from the Sports District, to Springfield, to Riverside, would have anywhere near the impact.
Pedestrian scale clustering in the start is very important. That's how you can jump start something like a Bricktown in a short period of time. We've made similar investments over the same period. They have been too spread out to leverage the synergy which leads to additional private sector development, making the initial public investment seem much more massive than it actually was.
Lets face it, Jacksonville can be average as far as new DT development, and still be a very attractive place to live. Cities like OKC in the dust bowl have no choice but to try very hard. United Airlines rejected OKC as a maintenance hub in favor of Indianapolis because they "couldn't see their employees living in OKC". That embarrassing moment got the ball rolling on OKC's DT renaissance. They don't have the benefit of consistent tourists like a Florida city like Jax, as shown on the population growth of the cities. So lets not kid ourselves here, OKC are doing some nice things, but don't act like it's some OKC runaway in comparison to Jax. I'll say that these two cities are VERY comparable. Some things OKC is stronger (mainly the DT area) and some things Jax are. When in comes to natural scenery, it's no contest, Jax by a mile. I agree with Jason's post.
??? Why be average when you can be great and excel economically? We have that potential. We have amenities and a natural location that most places would sell their first born for. All we need is will power to not accept and strive for mediocrity.
^^^I agree Lake, I'm just saying hypothetically, I'm not advocating for Jax to be mediocre.
QuoteI would add to vicupstate's statements about what 'could-be' locally that OKC concentrated their renewal, I not sure spreading ours from the Sports District, to Springfield, to Riverside, would have anywhere near the impact.
If Hogan's Creek from the St. John's through to the Klutho/Springfield parks was given the 'canal' treatment that OKC (and Indy for that matter) gave to their man-made canals, that would provide a visual and pedestrian link between the Sports District and the Northbank/Cathedral area. Then 'Deep Deuce' style housing could be incorporated into the Cathedral district (Parks at the Cathedral being a start already). Restaurants and Bars could be built along Bay St. from Hogan's Creek to the existing E. Bay St. corridor via the Shipyards property.
All of that would be physically connected to each other and create snergy between them, as well as link together the Northbank core and sports districts that are disconnected today.
Quote from: I-10east on October 17, 2012, 12:08:42 PM
Lets face it, Jacksonville can be average as far as new DT development, and still be a very attractive place to live. Cities like OKC in the dust bowl have no choice but to try very hard. United Airlines rejected OKC as a maintenance hub in favor of Indianapolis because they "couldn't see their employees living in OKC". That embarrassing moment got the ball rolling on OKC's DT renaissance. They don't have the benefit of consistent tourists like a Florida city like Jax, as shown on the population growth of the cities. So lets not kid ourselves here, OKC are doing some nice things, but don't act like it's some OKC runaway in comparison to Jax. I'll say that these two cities are VERY comparable. Some things OKC is stronger (mainly the DT area) and some things Jax are. When in comes to natural scenery, it's no contest, Jax by a mile. I agree with Jason's post.
OKC grew almost twice as fast as Jax in the last year.
As far as tourism, Jax proper, excluding the beaches, gets very little. Just pass-through motel stays mostly. I think it is past time for Jax to stop thinking it can rest on it's palm tree and beach laurels.
Charlotte has no particular geographic advanatages either, but which city is growing faster, OKC, Charlotte or Jax? Given the tremendous built-in advantages it has, Jax is underachieving, and the other two are overachieving. Jax has the POTENTIAL to surpass both, but potential doesn't make reality. Potential has to be exploited and that is what is missing.
Sorry I-10 East, I'm from Jacksonville and have governed in metropolitan OKC, believe me when I say Jacksonville is a hell of a lot closer to a modern day John Steinbeck novel then OKC is. Beaches? Oklahoma has great beaches and parks along its many lakes, including a few right in the metro area. How much water? How about 2,000 more miles of shoreline than the Atlantic and Gulf coasts combined. Ever stood on the prairie and watched a thunderstorm developing 50 miles away? Awesome. Awesome as in 'Field of Dreams' awesome. So one guy likes palm trees and the other likes rugged mountains and waterfalls... it's all relative isn't it?
The vibe in OKC, not just in downtown either, is simply: THIS IS AMERICAS NEXT GREAT CITY. They are blowing us out of the water. Sitting on the waterfront in downtown Jacksonville we can either cut bait or fish, this is no time for inaction, mediocrity, or apologetics.
And they have an NBA team now, too.
Not that it really means much in the scheme of things, but no one had mentioned it yet.
beaches on a lake?
The MAPS programs seem to have been very successful. Despite not being anywhere near as effective as OKC, Jacksonville's Better Jacksonville Plan looks very similar to the MAPS and it is interesting to compare the two. Wonder if Jacksonville should pass additional plans, much like OKC passed 3 MAP's? Of course it does not help that Jacksonville's BJP will not halt until possibly 2030.
***
Better Jacksonville Plan:
"The BJP half-penny sales tax will fund $1.5 billion of the entire $2.25 billion program. The remaining $750 million is funded through sources that already existed when BJP passed. The BJP sales tax, which raised Duval County's rate to 7 percent, must sunset no later than Dec. 31, 2030. The BJP work program is divided into four categories:
ROADS/INFRASTRUCTURE/TRANSPORTATION - $1.5 billion
PUBLIC FACILITIES - $525 million
- Jacksonville Veterans Memorial Arena - $130 mil
- Baseball Grounds of Jacksonville - $34 mil
- New Main Library - $95 mil
- New Library Branches / Renovations - $55 mil
- Duval County Courthouse - $211 mil
ENVIRONMENT/QUALITY OF LIFE - $165 million
TARGETED ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - $60 million
- Jacksonville Equestrian Center and Cecil Recreation Complex - $25mil
- Jacksonville Zoo Additions - $10mil
- Northwest Jacksonville Economic Development Fund - $25 mil
Quote from: Ocklawaha on October 17, 2012, 12:32:09 PM
The vibe in OKC, not just in downtown either, is simply: THIS IS AMERICAS NEXT GREAT CITY. They are blowing us out of the water. Sitting on the waterfront in downtown Jacksonville we can either cut bait or fish, this is no time for inaction, mediocrity, or apologetics.
If OKC is 'blowing Jax outta the water" how come it has added less population than Jax from 2000 to 2011? They built one significant skyscraper since 1984, and suddenly they are killing Jax, gotcha. Typical overreaction that every city in every nook and cranny is FAR better than Jax; I expect that on MJ. Way to stay consistent.
Quote from: fsquid on October 17, 2012, 05:30:52 PM
beaches on a lake?
Someone's been in FL too long. ;) Plenty of lakes have beaches. And nice ones. Chicago's Oak Street Beach (on Lake Michigan):
(http://arthill.smugmug.com/photos/26921061-L.jpg)
Quote from: Adam W on October 17, 2012, 04:58:01 PM
And they have an NBA team now, too.
Not that it really means much in the scheme of things, but no one had mentioned it yet.
I've mentioned it, OKC and Jax are both one pro sport towns.
Quote from: peestandingup on October 17, 2012, 08:27:00 PM
Quote from: fsquid on October 17, 2012, 05:30:52 PM
beaches on a lake?
Someone's been in FL too long. ;) Plenty of lakes have beaches. And nice ones. Chicago's Oak Street Beach (on Lake Michigan):
Funny we were thinking the same thing, but then Florida has the Keystone Lake Chain, with several nice beaches, oh, and let's not forget Kingsley Lake, this shot is at Camp Blanding Recreation Area.
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3226/2313388270_f39f91a938_z.jpg)
Quote from: I-10east on October 17, 2012, 08:19:40 PM
Quote from: Ocklawaha on October 17, 2012, 12:32:09 PM
The vibe in OKC, not just in downtown either, is simply: THIS IS AMERICAS NEXT GREAT CITY. They are blowing us out of the water. Sitting on the waterfront in downtown Jacksonville we can either cut bait or fish, this is no time for inaction, mediocrity, or apologetics.
If OKC is 'blowing Jax outta the water" how come it has added less population than Jax from 2000 to 2011? They built one significant skyscraper since 1984, and suddenly they are killing Jax, gotcha. Typical overreaction that every city in every nook and cranny is FAR better than Jax; I expect that on MJ. Way to stay consistent.
For a major corporate relocation, given the choices between Charlotte, OKC or Jacksonville, as it stands right now, we wouldn't have a prayer. This isn't 'typical overreaction' as you seem to think, this is based on the plans that were made and followed through, something we haven't done in a lifetime. Unless you've been on the street in downtown OKC within the last year, you don't know what your talking about. If you can work through your cloud of immature apologetics and consider that everything we print in MJ is aimed at turning decades of stagnation into a vibrant, exciting place to work and live, then perhaps you would understand. Open your eyes man. Anytime your local pride gets a tiny bit ruffled, you launch on MJ, our posters, and 'cities in every nook and cranny.' It's sad really, since your attitude is exactly the attitude that has led us to such mediocrity. If you can't change things your helpless - if you don't change things your hopeless.
^^^Every point that I made above, you cannot deny Ock, so my 'cloud of immature apologetics' as you call it, has truth to it. It's not me being overly-defensive of Jax, it's you and many others on here that are the typical jaded negative TU-esque Jacksonvillians that think every city is a mile better than here, and many of yall are overly protective of every 'learning from series' city, have you taken that into consideration? Of course not. Just because Jax doesn't have your beloved 'end all be all' trolley, every city that has or is gonna get one, is blowing us away on that point alone, gotcha. I don't have to go to tornado alley to know that it would not be a place that I would consider to live, or frankly would wanna visit. You know the city, and yall posted pictures of the highlights; I'm not blown away, Bricktown looks okay for a typical local weekend, but I'm definitely not buying an airline ticket. Last time I checked, Jax has more Fortune 500's than OKC, so that "we don't have a chance to land a big company, in comparison to OKC" comment is totally off-base.
Quote from: I-10east on October 17, 2012, 08:33:23 PM
Quote from: Adam W on October 17, 2012, 04:58:01 PM
And they have an NBA team now, too.
Not that it really means much in the scheme of things, but no one had mentioned it yet.
I've mentioned it, OKC and Jax are both one pro sport towns.
Sorry, I missed it.
Quote from: I-10east on October 17, 2012, 11:25:55 PM
^^^Every point that I made above, you cannot deny Ock, so my 'cloud of immature apologetics' as you call it, has truth to it. It's not me being overly-defensive of Jax, it's you and many others on here that are the typical jaded negative TU-esque Jacksonvillians that think every city is a mile better than here, and many of yall are overly protective of every 'learning from series' city, have you taken that into consideration? Of course not.
Sorry to confuse you with facts, but "Jacksonvillians" isn't a word, the correct term is "Jaxsons."
QuoteJust because Jax doesn't have your beloved 'end all be all' trolley, every city that has or is gonna get one, is blowing us away on that point alone, gotcha.
Well considering cities that have invested in streetcars are enjoying a $3 to $1 return on investment based on new development dollars and we're not, I'm glad you got that point.
QuoteI don't have to go to tornado alley to know that it would not be a place that I would consider to live, or frankly would wanna visit.
I think I understand your logic, each time we write about a city that has more going on then Jacksonville, you mark it off of your list of places to live or visit. At the rate we're going, within 10 years, you won't be able to go outside.
QuoteYou know the city, and y'all posted pictures of the highlights; I'm not blown away, Bricktown looks okay for a typical local weekend, but I'm definitely not buying an airline ticket.
Of course your not, having to broaden your horizons and admitting that places beyond Duval are on the move, would no doubt be horrifying.
QuoteLast time I checked, Jax has more Fortune 500's than OKC, so that "we don't have a chance to land a big company, in comparison to OKC" comment is totally off-base.
True enough about our fortune 500's, we also had Huguenot's and Conquistadors before OKC, but that will have no effect on our quality of life and thus our attractiveness from this day forward.
Jacksonville is falling behind our peers, in the case of Portland, Charlotte or OKC, WAY BEHIND. We can be active and move, or we can be the new Biloxi.
I think you're being pedantic. "Jaxsons" is no more correct than "Jacksonvillians." It is preferred by you and others, maybe, but it's simply a preference.
I, for one, never liked the term. It's certainly not the only correct term. I think there are plenty of issues with I-10's arguments. It seems like picking on him for what he chooses to call residents of Jacksonville is pretty weak.
Edit: I think you're right on as far as the rest of that post goes, though.
I assure you that I had every intent of being meticulously pedantic and while I realize it's apoplectic to say so, the wildly apocryphal rumors that 'Jacksonvillians' has a place in history is untrue. Throughout the history and early documents of and about Jacksonville's citizens only 'Jaxsons' is used repetitively. Other then that, I was just having some fun at I-10East's expense, awaiting with eagerness his cerebral responses. ;)
What I find crazy or curious is how one can look at the photos and not see that Jacksonville is in trouble. Or at least seriously lagging behind (which is probably a fairer description). You can see that OKC is doing more with its city center right now.
I don't think the issue is one of which is "better." Maybe Jax has more Fortune 500 companies or a better environment or more tourism or a better climate, etc etc etc. But the simple truth is we're not doing anything with all we have and we're watching our city slowly atrophy. Looks like the guys in Oklahoma decided to do something.
Anyway, I liked the article and I thought the photos were great. Made me reconsider a city I wouldn't have thought too much about before, if I'm being completely honest.
Glad you liked it Adam, and you are correct, these article are designed to show that other places, perhaps much less endowed by nature, are moving forward. This is a window into the minds and ideas of cities everywhere which should give us pause when we continually try and force 1 + 1 to = 11. Jacksonville has stalled out and simply must get back in the race or be pushed further down the list of America's great cities.
I can't wait for the next Downtown Revitalization: Texarkana TX/AR megalopolis area. I guess that they blow us away too. Every dusty city in the Dust Bowl with no natural beauty blow us away, go figure. A city does a couple of nice regular things downtown, and suddenly it's a world class destination. Going to some store/restaurant/bar/movie in a suburban area, or even a place like Avondale/Riverside completely sucks. Now going to that same type place in downtown OKC/Charlotte etc with tall skyscrapers across the street, now that's utopia, hell I'm getting a hard on even just thinking about it!!! There's a HUGE difference!!! Downtown is completely EVERYTHING in a city. Stay negative MJ, it's only because we care....
Are you off of your medication again?
Quote from: I-10east on October 17, 2012, 11:25:55 PM
^^^Every point that I made above, you cannot deny Ock, so my 'cloud of immature apologetics' as you call it, has truth to it. It's not me being overly-defensive of Jax, it's you and many others on here that are the typical jaded negative TU-esque Jacksonvillians that think every city is a mile better than here, and many of yall are overly protective of every 'learning from series' city, have you taken that into consideration? Of course not. Just because Jax doesn't have your beloved 'end all be all' trolley, every city that has or is gonna get one, is blowing us away on that point alone, gotcha. I don't have to go to tornado alley to know that it would not be a place that I would consider to live, or frankly would wanna visit. You know the city, and yall posted pictures of the highlights; I'm not blown away, Bricktown looks okay for a typical local weekend, but I'm definitely not buying an airline ticket. Last time I checked, Jax has more Fortune 500's than OKC, so that "we don't have a chance to land a big company, in comparison to OKC" comment is totally off-base.
Quote from: I-10east on October 18, 2012, 01:10:03 PM
I can't wait for the next Downtown Revitalization: Texarkana TX/AR megalopolis area. I guess that they blow us away too. Every dusty city in the Dust Bowl with no natural beauty blow us away, go figure. A city does a couple of nice regular things downtown, and suddenly it's a world class destination. Going to some store/restaurant/bar/movie in a suburban area, or even a place like Avondale/Riverside completely sucks. Now going to that same type place in downtown OKC/Charlotte etc with tall skyscrapers across the street, now that's utopia, hell I'm getting a hard on even just thinking about it!!! There's a HUGE difference!!! Downtown is completely EVERYTHING in a city. Stay negative MJ, it's only because we care....
Well, first thing. There are such things as paragraphs. Makes reading rants on forums much easier when they're swatting away various topics of criticism.
And I dont understand. If you're unable to accept the faults of this town, just look at pictures to make up your mind & never, you know, actually visit or live in any others to give you any true insight (I don't know this for sure, just sounds like it), think everything is just peachy & are completely satisfied with Jax for being the mediocre town that it is (and it is, we're way behind whether you wanna believe it or not), then why even participate in discussions about changing it/comparisons to other towns??
Honest question, not trying to be mean.
First of all, just because I haven't been to that particular tornado alley city doesn't mean that I haven't been anywhere else other than Jax. I wasn't even born in Jax, I was born in NY. I like travelling all over the country since I have alot of time on my hands, and being single with no kids. I particularly like to visit theme parks for their coasters, and I been to plenty of major cities in between the trips. I went on a coast to coast trip down my favorite interstate back in July. I also served in the Army from 1997 to 2000, being stationed in Ft Carson, CO near Colorado Springs; Although I still haven't been overseas yet during that peace time era. So this stupid notion that I have never been anywhere other than Jax is hilarious. I'm not trying to be boastful or anything like that, just proving a point that Jax isn't the only city that I've been to.
All I said was that OKC & Jax are very comparable when it comes to the square mileage, city population, and having one pro team in town. I even gave OKC props for the DT area, and that's something that Jax can learn from. Does that mean that the entire CITY of OKC is stomping the entire CITY of Jax in the ground? I don't think so, hopefully I can have an opinion. We live in an internet age now, and information galore is abound, so that 'you gotta see for yourself' comment is very retro, this isn't 1986 anymore, and you're using a three-year old Encyclopedia Britannica; Google Earth will let you see street view of cityscapes, along with tons of oither info related sites; Believe me, I've done my research. Jason said that Jax has alot more to do than OKC, and I totally agree with him. Now if you're taking downtown boundaries, then that edge would go to OKC, but fortunately for me I don't live in a downtown boundary world with the Berlin wall on all four sides. I never said that everything is okay in Jax. Why do people put those words in my mouth? Bottomline, if two cities are comparable, and someone says one is basically hopeless, then expect me to chime in with a dose of reality.
Quote from: I-10east on October 18, 2012, 01:10:03 PM
I can't wait for the next Downtown Revitalization: Texarkana TX/AR megalopolis area.
Looking at the que, here is the next line of cities we'll be profiling over the next few weeks:
London, Sarasota, Tallahassee, Naples, Nashville, Tulsa, Baton Rouge, Dayton, Savannah's port, and Detroit's Indian Village.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on October 18, 2012, 02:41:27 PM
Are you off of your medication again?
No, I've been keeping up with the meds (non-mental medication BTW).
Quote from: thelakelander on October 18, 2012, 07:28:48 PM
Quote from: I-10east on October 18, 2012, 01:10:03 PM
I can't wait for the next Downtown Revitalization: Texarkana TX/AR megalopolis area.
Looking at the que, here is the next line of cities we'll be profiling over the next few weeks:
London, Sarasota, Tallahassee, Naples, Nashville, Tulsa, Baton Rouge, Dayton, Savannah's port, and Detroit's Indian Village.
Thanks for the update Lake. :)
Quote from: I-10east on October 18, 2012, 07:30:58 PM
Quote from: Ocklawaha on October 18, 2012, 02:41:27 PM
Are you off of your medication again?
No, I've been keeping up with the meds (non-mental medication BTW).
(http://farm1.staticflickr.com/140/375031177_d66752b086_z.jpg)
Okay man, I was just a bit worried about you when you pulled Texarkana alongside Jacksonville for a comparison... Though Texarkana does have a pretty cool old Union Station and it's still a transportation hub! BTW, we might toss Dodge City and Greensburg KS, into that mix Lake mentioned. Perhaps we'll catch Texarkana next year.
I'm packing my bags, headed to Texarkana right now!
The fact of the matter is that Jacksonville isn't exploiting its built-in advantages. Other cities are doing a lot more with a lot less; pretty mind-boggling how lackluster the leadership is in Jacksonville for that to be happening.
We might be slightly ahead in population, but OKC, is ripping us a new one in CITY 101.
QuoteModern Streetcar 101 community meeting set for May 9
The public is invited to learn about the MAPS 3 Modern Streetcar, streetcar operations and how they are being used around the country by attending a Modern Streetcar 101 community meeting hosted by the City of Oklahoma City and Jacobs Engineering.
The meeting will be held at 6 p.m., Thursday, May 9 on the fourth floor of the Downtown Public Library, 300 Park Avenue. Participation is free and registration is not necessary.
The meeting will give attendees insight on how the MAPS 3 Modern Streetcar may function once it’s built. The streetcar is expected to be a catalyst for development and continue the revitalization of downtown Oklahoma City.
Project Manager Mike McAnelly with Jacobs Engineering will discuss the basics of modern streetcars including average speed, turning radius, single and double track options, spacing between stops, and how the streetcars interact with traffic, pedestrians and bicyclists.
“There are many people in the region who have never boarded a modern streetcar and want to know what they can expect from ours,†MAPS 3 Program Manager David Todd said. “We will also discuss streetcar systems that are in various stages of implementation in Portland, Seattle, Atlanta, Kansas City and Los Angeles.â€
Attendees will be presented with analysis from transit plans and studies conducted in Oklahoma City and the metropolitan area including the Fixed Guideway Study, Let's Talk Transit, the Greater Downtown OKC Circulator Alternatives Analysis and the Intermodal Transportation Hub Master Plan.
Funding for a $128.8 million Modern Streetcar project was approved by voters in 2009 as a part of MAPS 3 (Metropolitan Area Projects). The streetcar route is expected to be approved by City Council this summer and construction on the rail is expected to begin in 2014. The rail-based streetcar and a hub will serve downtown Oklahoma City and the number of miles of track constructed will be determined by funding.
The Modern Streetcar project is managed by the City of Oklahoma City’s MAPS 3 office. A 10-person Modern Streetcar Subcommittee, made up of residents, provides input to City staff and to the MAPS 3 Citizens Advisory Board.
About MAPS 3
MAPS 3 is a 10-year, $777 million construction program designed to improve the quality of life in Oklahoma City. It is funded by a one-cent sales tax initiative that began in April 2010 and ends in December 2017. MAPS 3 funds eight projects: Downtown Convention Center, Downtown Public Park, Modern Streetcar, Oklahoma River Improvements, Oklahoma State Fairgrounds Improvements, Senior Health and Wellness Centers and Trails and Sidewalks.
Stay updated by logging on to www.okc.gov/maps3 or follow us on Twitter @MAPS3 or Facebook at Facebook.com/maps3.
SOURCE: OKC MAPS
Really interesting: "MAPS 3 (Metropolitan Area Projects). The streetcar route is expected to be approved by City Council this summer and construction on the rail is expected to begin in 2014. The rail-based streetcar and a hub will serve downtown Oklahoma City and the number of miles of track constructed will be determined by funding.
The Modern Streetcar project is managed by the City of Oklahoma City’s MAPS 3 office. A 10-person Modern Streetcar Subcommittee, made up of residents, provides input to City staff and to the MAPS 3 Citizens Advisory Board.
About MAPS 3
MAPS 3 is a 10-year, $777 million construction program designed to improve the quality of life in Oklahoma City. It is funded by a one-cent sales tax initiative that began in April 2010 and ends in December 2017. MAPS 3 funds eight projects: Downtown Convention Center, Downtown Public Park, Modern Streetcar, Oklahoma River Improvements, Oklahoma State Fairgrounds Improvements, Senior Health and Wellness Centers and Trails and Sidewalks."
OKC is going to rehab the current Amtrak Station (former Santa Fe) into a multi-modal transportation hub;
Per NewsOK.com
Renovations Set for Oklahoma City multi-modal hub.
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A railroading term with a history to fit the mission figures in the renovation -- and future -- of downtown Oklahoma City's Santa Fe Station.
Plans include laying track for a bypass -- a "shoefly" or "shoofly," depending on your source -- so trains can move while construction workers tunnel beneath the elevated tracks to create a walkway between downtown and Bricktown.
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The tunnel is "a huge part" of the $28.4 million transformation of the historic Art Deco depot into a transportation hub for options as varied as bicycles, streetcars and commuter trains, Eric Wenger, Oklahoma City's public works director, told the city council Tuesday.
Architects' designs should be complete by April and construction could begin this summer, Wenger said. Plans are to open the renovated station, with its tunnel leading from inside to a terrace above the Bricktown canal, in two years.
The renovations are intended to enable the station to adapt to new and changing transportation choices, Wenger said.
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And that's where the shoofly -- a railroading term dating back more than 100 years -- comes in.
It's defined as a temporary track to permit trains to make their way around repairs.
The Santa Fe Station shoofly is necessary because the BNSF Railway "will not allow us to do work under active tracks," Wenger said.
The tunnel is a complex engineering challenge, requiring work in stages to accommodate the railroad, Wenger said.
Once half the tunnel is finished, trains would switch from shoofly to main line to keep traffic moving as construction continues.
Normally, shoofly tracks are removed.
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But Wenger said the Santa Fe Station shoofly would remain in place to accommodate future service such as commuter rail from Norman and Edmond.
Worth noting: City officials say they will begin conversations with Greyhound about restoring intercity bus service to downtown with a stop at the Santa Fe Station. Mayor Mick Cornett said "we were sure inviting them back" when buses were moved from the historic Union Bus Station at Walker and Sheridan avenues to E Reno and Martin Luther King avenues, an industrial area some distance from Bricktown.
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An architect's image shows a future tunnel and plaza beneath the Santa Fe Station in downtown Oklahoma City. The plaza will overlook the Bricktown Canal. Drawing PROVIDED BY CITY OF OKLAHOMA CITY