Very interesting.
____________________________________________________________________________
St. Johns County approves incentive package for Advanced Disposal
Jacksonville Business Journal by Ashley Gurbal Kritzer, Reporter
Date: Tuesday, October 16, 2012
Ashley Gurbal Kritzer
The St. Johns County Commissioners on Tuesday unanimously approved a state and county incentive package worth $670,460 for Advanced Disposal Inc.
Advanced Disposal, based in Jacksonville, has applied for incentives to locate its corporate headquarters in Jacksonville, Milwaukee, Atlanta and Charlotte, N.C. The Jacksonville City Council last week approved an $895,000 incentive package for the company.
Melissa Glasgow, director of economic development for St. Johns County, said Advanced Disposal submitted its application for incentives late Friday. Advanced Disposal Chief Marketing Officer Mary O’Brien did not immediately return a phone call seeking comment.
Glasgow said the total incentive package could top $1 million, depending on additional state incentives that are available.
The package the St. Johns commissioners approved includes approval for expedited permitting and an economic development grant equal to two years tangible personal property tax, estimated to be $75,460.
The package also includes a state qualified target industry tax refund of $595,000 for the creation of 85 new jobs, which includes approved a 20 percent local match of $119,000.
“Apparently there are some existing buildings they are currently evaluating in St. Johns County,†Glasgow said, “And they wanted to know whether our board and county would support a request for an incentive package.â€
Advanced Disposal has been shopping the Jacksonville commercial real estate market for about 25,000 square feet of office space. The company is looking for a new corporate headquarters following a series of acquisitions of other companies, including Milwaukee-based Veolia ES Solid Waste.
Economic development officials in Milwaukee have said that they are aggressively pursuing the company, though they had no idea they were on the company’s short list until they were contacted by The Business Journal of Greater Milwaukee, a sister publication.
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2012/10/16/st-johns-county-approves-incentive.html
Pretty sure they're pissed off that a certain council member is causing a big stink. Way to do what's in the best interest of the City.
Which Council Member?
It seems to me they are still shopping around.. but they might be in a stink over the money thing. But whether the HQ is here or anywhere else, if they end up owing the city money, they will still owe the city money regardless of where they are. We'll see what happens I guess.
still seems like it is less money than what the city is offering unless they can operate cheaper in the suburbs.
Quote from: Doctor_K on October 16, 2012, 04:20:02 PM
Which Council Member?
I don't want to name names, but only two council members voted against it...
Schellenberger and Yarbourogh?
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2012/12/03/sources-say-advanced-disposal-will.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2012/12/03/sources-say-advanced-disposal-will.html)
St. Johns County it is! Wow
Either in Nocatee or St. Augustine. Didn't see that coming.
Quote from: fsquid on December 03, 2012, 03:27:30 PM
Either in Nocatee or St. Augustine. Didn't see that coming.
Neither did I. From what I understand, it's Nocatee. How's COJ lose this one?? It's not like they picked up and moved out of state. And, didn't we offer AD more money? :o
they probably knew all along that they wanted to be in St Johns County. This was a way for them to work the system so they could get some kind of "incentive" from St Johns to go there.
^That's what it sounds like to me.
It could be worse. They could have the area entirely.
Quote from: copperfiend on December 03, 2012, 03:40:29 PM
It could be worse. They could have the area entirely.
I definitely agree. Just a curious move.
i would be willing to bet one or more of the executives lives in Ponte Vedra, Nocatee area.
So glad the taxpayers are funding half the construction cost of a parking garage creating more dead space downtown based on AD's 'eminent move' downtown.
Quote from: fieldafm on December 03, 2012, 03:47:46 PM
So glad the taxpayers are funding half the construction cost of a parking garage creating more dead space downtown based on AD's 'eminent move' downtown.
Yep, another brilliant move.
wow. that is just stupid. maybe it was for PSS? but we all know that isnt going to happen either. save the money, dont build the garage!
Quote from: fsujax on December 03, 2012, 03:47:23 PM
i would be willing to bet one or more of the executives lives in Ponte Vedra, Nocatee area.
the CEO actually lives in Mandarin on the water. No clue about the others though.
Quote from: fsujax on December 03, 2012, 03:55:58 PM
wow. that is just stupid. maybe it was for PSS? but we all know that isnt going to happen either. save the money, dont build the garage!
PSS was never coming downtown, even before they were acquired.
^^i know, i was just saying it. sarcastically.
^oh, I know. The irony is that PSS and Advanced Disposal were being touted as reasons for pushing that Parador garage down everyone's throats.
yeah. it is ridiculous.
Sorry to get off topic, but I thought the sole reason for Parador parking garage was because of some contract agreement between COJ and Sleiman/Landing? I agree, if it was for a corporation lets hold off on that for now.
There is no agreement between Sleiman and COJ regarding the Parador garage. It does not fulfill the city's obligation to the Landing, according to Sleiman.
Yeah no kidding!
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2012-12-13/story/advanced-disposal-chooses-nocatee-site-new-headquarters
This is the building they are going into:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/755544478_89UKu-M.jpg)
They cited parking costs as the deciding factor.
How much additional cost would parking be?
Depends on how many dedicated spaces they desired. It's a downtown specific cost that can quickly add up if you employ a lot of people. My old garage space at Forsyth and Hogan used to run my firm $90.95 each month. With 120 employees (the number quoted with Advanced Disposal) without a deal, that's nearly $11k per month or $131k annually that has nothing to do with the reason you're in business in the first place.
how did an office building come to be out in Nocatee?
Nocatee is supposed to be a city whenever it's built out. It will have office parks, shopping centers, and a downtown core. This was the first office space developed a few years back. I guess was vacant and available.
according to the article it housed something until it was forced into receivership.
You probably know by now. The decision's been made. They are moving to St. John's County.
I didnt care one way or another really. It seems to be they just did it out of spite, but at the end of the day, no matter where they are located, if they owe the city money, theyll have to pay up.
Quote from: Bill Hoff on December 13, 2012, 04:55:13 PM
They cited parking costs as the deciding factor.
How much additional cost would parking be?
2-4 bucks PSF depending on.....
Appleby: Mayor ‘told me I was wrong’QuoteAdvanced Disposal Chairman and CEO Charlie Appleby says if incentives had been approved more quickly in Jacksonville, he might be renovating space Downtown for corporate headquarters rather than relocating to St. Johns County.
"Had they been able to move as quickly as St. Johns County, the announcement would have been made and we would have announced for Downtown," Appleby said during an interview Monday afternoon.
Had Advanced Disposal moved Downtown, it probably would have been to the SunTrust Tower. "That would have been the likely place we would have gone," he said.
Signage on the building would have been part of the negotiations. "That was under discussion but not finalized," he said.
Appleby said the time it took Jacksonville City Council to approve incentives allowed Advanced Disposal time to review other options.
full article: http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=538325
How did the financial incentives SJC gave them compare to what COJ was going to offer?
They were less i believe.
Quote from: stephendare on December 20, 2012, 11:16:17 AM
Quote from: stephendare on December 20, 2012, 11:15:49 AM
Quote from: cline on December 20, 2012, 11:14:34 AM
How did the financial incentives SJC gave them compare to what COJ was going to offer?
apparently they were just quicker.
and no one was being an ass on their city council. ;)
True. Hopefully though, COJ remembers this next time AD's contract renewal comes up. But you're right, Crescimbini is a tool regardless.
Quote from: stephendare on December 20, 2012, 11:15:49 AM
Quote from: cline on December 20, 2012, 11:14:34 AM
How did the financial incentives SJC gave them compare to what COJ was going to offer?
apparently they were just quicker.
seems like only 3 weeks though.
Appleby is a friend of the Mayor's. His statements are designed to emphasize out our obvious problem with incentives approval without making it sound like anyone in particular dropped the ball. I still think they were going to Nocatee regardless of how long it took in Duval.
It's surprising Nocatee appealed. The rental rates down there must be a giveaway...there is no other reason to be down there.
^Maybe their employees live in the area.
All of their employees live around the 210 corridor? That's too hard to imagine.
Jacksonville approved the incentives by Oct. 9 and St. Johns by Oct. 16, yet St. Johns was 'quicker'.
On Oct. 9 the company had what they needed to move forward to go DT. They were going to St. Johns regardless, probably because of free parking and a ready-made building.
What would be the advantage of Advanced Disposal being downtown anyway? They wouldn't be a downtown office user in any other city, either.
Jacksonville needs to get smart here...it has lost a lot of its "downtown users" and the financial services sector down there is more back operation than downtown regional office. There aren't many law firms or prominent architecture firms.
Perhaps the immediate future of downtown shouldn't revolve around office to begin with...maybe focusing on anything and everything else is more important. Just because you have Everbank there now doesn't mean DT is going to come back. those workers are there through incentives...so now they commute in and commute out. Big deal.
Focus on the Landing and residential. Small business growth...bring all the small business gurus from Avondale and Riverside and San Marco/Beaches into downtown, too. Make it a cool place and somebody on the office side will eventually take note. Problem is the office brokers in Jacksonville wield so much power...they still get paid if the city offers incentives. Otherwise they aren't getting paid because deals are not happening. Tough luck guys...sorry :(
Quote from: simms3 on December 20, 2012, 04:07:52 PM
All of their employees live around the 210 corridor? That's too hard to imagine.
well, the higher-ups probably do. Ponte Vedra is only a short drive away and most all of South Jax can reach the Nocatee area in under 20 minutes.
The fact remains that their choices were seemingly between downtown office space not really suitable to their needs with higher rent/costs even with incentives/parking, or a foreclosed "class A" building in Nocatee, mostly furnished and a give away. I doubt it had anything to do with which county acted faster or the location of its executives. Advanced Disposal is a waste management company not unlike Waste Management...correct me if I'm wrong, but they aren't a typical downtown firm that needs downtown space and downtown incentives. COJ should quit chasing ghosts.
I'm going to compile a list of all major accounting, banking, architecture, PR/marketing, law firms, etc etc active in the SE and where the nearest office is. You'll find that Atlanta has everyone and a pretty thriving investment banking industry, hence all the trophy office buildings, and then Miami has a number, and then Charlotte has a few, but overall most cities in the south don't have the robust downtown office users that the larger cities have, and Jax is not in a position right now to start attracting them. Nashville is adding hotel, residential and retail right now. Not office space.
Time to focus on other things like retail, small business growth, and residential - easier to force this stuff to happen than to force Paul Hastings to bring 50 partners down from NYC to lease 100,000 SF in a trophy downtown office tower when they have no business being in Jax.
Quote from: vicupstate on December 20, 2012, 06:59:04 PM
Jacksonville approved the incentives by Oct. 9 and St. Johns by Oct. 16, yet St. Johns was 'quicker'.
On Oct. 9 the company had what they needed to move forward to go DT. They were going to St. Johns regardless, probably because of free parking and a ready-made building.
St. Johns took 4 days and had office space furnished and available for immediate use. In Duval, any office space would have had to be renovated. If Duval had wrapped it up earlier, ADS could have had space renovated in time for its move.
Quote from: simms3 on December 20, 2012, 07:17:26 PM
What would be the advantage of Advanced Disposal being downtown anyway? They wouldn't be a downtown office user in any other city, either.
Jacksonville needs to get smart here...it has lost a lot of its "downtown users" and the financial services sector down there is more back operation than downtown regional office. There aren't many law firms or prominent architecture firms.
What on earth are you talking about? No prominent law firms downtown? The financial services downtown are no back operation. Back operations offices tend more towards the southpoint area. ADS would have brought somewhere in the neighborhood of 85 jobs with an average salary of $115K downtown. You are nuts to discount getting the 4th largest waste management company in the country downtown.
^^^Foley & Lardner and Holland & Knight are the only top 100 law firms I can think of with offices in Jax. That's a high avg salary, but do they need office space in a tower downtown? Doesn't strike me as the sort of space they would want. Besides, having more employees commute in and then commute out, regardless of their salary, won't be the DT renaissance we all want. DT Dallas up until basically now has been one of the deadest downtowns in the country and has thousands of people making hundreds of thousands of dollars commuting in and out. Austin, on the other hand, has much less office space, but has a thriving downtown thanks to the bars, hotels, condos/apts, students, etc.
Quote from: MEGATRON on December 21, 2012, 11:35:19 AM
Quote from: vicupstate on December 20, 2012, 06:59:04 PM
Jacksonville approved the incentives by Oct. 9 and St. Johns by Oct. 16, yet St. Johns was 'quicker'.
On Oct. 9 the company had what they needed to move forward to go DT. They were going to St. Johns regardless, probably because of free parking and a ready-made building.
St. Johns took 4 days and had office space furnished and available for immediate use. In Duval, any office space would have had to be renovated. If Duval had wrapped it up earlier, ADS could have had space renovated in time for its move.
Yes, our incentives approvals process is far too slow and it needs to be fixed, stat. Though Nocatee was attractive for other reasons beyond just the incentives. It evidently had cheaper rates with a more eager landlord than their current setup, but had the same advantages over downtown. And I doubt it's much more inconvenient for their employees (or at least the higher ups) than their current location, let alone downtown.
Quote from: simms3 on December 21, 2012, 11:57:09 AM
^^^Foley & Lardner and Holland & Knight are the only top 100 law firms I can think of with offices in Jax.
Gunster is getting pretty big
Quote from: simms3 on December 21, 2012, 11:57:09 AM
^^^Foley & Lardner and Holland & Knight are the only top 100 law firms I can think of with offices in Jax. That's a high avg salary, but do they need office space in a tower downtown? Doesn't strike me as the sort of space they would want. Besides, having more employees commute in and then commute out, regardless of their salary, won't be the DT renaissance we all want. DT Dallas up until basically now has been one of the deadest downtowns in the country and has thousands of people making hundreds of thousands of dollars commuting in and out. Austin, on the other hand, has much less office space, but has a thriving downtown thanks to the bars, hotels, condos/apts, students, etc.
Agreed that the Jax approach has to be to create a neighborhood rather than force business this way