Saw this on the Huffington Post and thought I'd share.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/08/most-and-least-christian-cities_n_1915050.html#slide=1569454
Interestingly, on another list they have, we're 24th most religious (any denomination) in the country.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/18/most-and-least-religious-cities_n_1522644.html?#slide=988460
Quote from: stephendare on October 09, 2012, 12:03:13 AM
Quote from: BigGuy219 on October 08, 2012, 11:47:22 PM
Saw this on the Huffington Post and thought I'd share.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/08/most-and-least-christian-cities_n_1915050.html#slide=1569454
Interestingly, on another list they have, we're 24th most religious (any denomination) in the country.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/18/most-and-least-religious-cities_n_1522644.html?#slide=988460
I would believe this. Jacksonville is 13th largest but 24th most religious.
Not as god intoxicated as people like to make out.
Actually, the list seems to be showing core-based statistical areas and in that ranking, Jax is 40th (I believe). So 40th in size with 23rd in Christian-ness kind of tells a different story. Looks like we're punching above our weight ;D
Edit: I'd like to add, however, that people identifying themselves as Christian doesn't necessarily make them "god intoxicated" or evangelical or whatever. I don't think it's any secret that Jax has a lot of churches and is a religious city. It's to be expected, given its location. But we do get people from all over the country (and the world), which takes the edge off and I think moderates it a bit.
Jax is not one "thing." It's many. So we (you and I, Stephen) may disagree over how conservative or religious Jax is (we have in the past, I believe), but I think we'd both agree there are lots of "other" in the town - it's not just a city of churches. And even though we have lots of churches, that's not necessarily bad, it's just not my cup of tea.
List means nothing. Some of the biggest, most liberal cities (such as Boston) are well ahead of Jax (Catholics). Jax is pretty darn diverse for its size, both in terms of race and religion, perhaps even ideology, but the Christian Right (typically Baptist) defines the town and nobody can deny that.
well being 23rd sure doesnt help evidentally. As bad as things go around here, I feel like were cursed more than anything. ;D
Ask anyone in Salt Lake City, Rome or Makkah how "bad" religion has been for their economies, most any of us would be delighted with the profits from a little hookah bar a few hundred yards from the 'Al Amir Nasar lbn Masud freeway,' when the pilgrims hit town.
Quote from: stephendare on October 09, 2012, 12:03:13 AM
Quote from: BigGuy219 on October 08, 2012, 11:47:22 PM
Saw this on the Huffington Post and thought I'd share.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/08/most-and-least-christian-cities_n_1915050.html#slide=1569454
Interestingly, on another list they have, we're 24th most religious (any denomination) in the country.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/18/most-and-least-religious-cities_n_1522644.html?#slide=988460
I would believe this. Jacksonville is 13th largest but 24th most religious.
Not as god intoxicated as people like to make out.
Yes but the religious ones are quite loud about it.
Quote from: stephendare on October 09, 2012, 08:54:08 AM
Quote from: simms3 on October 09, 2012, 07:43:08 AM
List means nothing. Some of the biggest, most liberal cities (such as Boston) are well ahead of Jax (Catholics). Jax is pretty darn diverse for its size, both in terms of race and religion, perhaps even ideology, but the Christian Right (typically Baptist) defines the town and nobody can deny that.
We define this town too.
So let me deny that for you, my dear young hotspur. ;)
Wait a second... is Simms a Tottenham supporter as well?
Only #23? FBC must be PISSED!! Did they even look at the composition of the City Council?
I want to be god intoxicated.
I'm using that on my next menu.
Quote from: stephendare on October 09, 2012, 12:03:13 AM
Quote from: BigGuy219 on October 08, 2012, 11:47:22 PM
Saw this on the Huffington Post and thought I'd share.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/08/most-and-least-christian-cities_n_1915050.html#slide=1569454
Interestingly, on another list they have, we're 24th most religious (any denomination) in the country.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/18/most-and-least-religious-cities_n_1522644.html?#slide=988460
I would believe this. Jacksonville is 13th largest but 24th most religious.
Not as god intoxicated as people like to make out.
You're absolutely right. The misperception comes because the intoxicated are coincidentally the most vocal and also the ones who get the most press.
Quote from: ben says on November 03, 2012, 08:43:20 AM
Quote from: stephendare on October 09, 2012, 12:03:13 AM
Quote from: BigGuy219 on October 08, 2012, 11:47:22 PM
Saw this on the Huffington Post and thought I'd share.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/08/most-and-least-christian-cities_n_1915050.html#slide=1569454
Interestingly, on another list they have, we're 24th most religious (any denomination) in the country.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/18/most-and-least-religious-cities_n_1522644.html?#slide=988460
I would believe this. Jacksonville is 13th largest but 24th most religious.
Not as god intoxicated as people like to make out.
You're absolutely right. The misperception comes because the intoxicated are coincidentally the most vocal and also the ones who get the most press.
In my heart and soul Jacksonville Fl could be 1,000,000,000,000,000th most religious. But GOD is number one with me, how about you?
I proudly say "God" (whatever that is to everyone) is # 0. Friends, family and morals that are instilled in every decent human being regardless of their religious (or lack of) religions beliefs are in the top 3 for me!
It was refreshing to see that Jacksonville wasn't as religious and "god intoxicated" (love that term) as I thought once I was able to get away from my religious upbringing and private christian schools. Hanging out at various venues that encouraged independent & free thinking thought as a 17 year old showed me that not everyone in this town has the same by the book religious beliefs. And that was a huge breath of fresh air.
Quote from: David on November 03, 2012, 04:38:07 PM
I proudly say "God" (whatever that is to everyone) is # 0. Friends, family and morals that are instilled in every decent human being regardless of their religious (or lack of) religions beliefs are in the top 3 for me!
It was refreshing to see that Jacksonville wasn't as religious and "god intoxicated" (love that term) as I thought once I was able to get away from my religious upbringing and private christian schools. Hanging out at various venues that encouraged independent & free thinking thought as a 17 year old showed me that not everyone in this town has the same by the book religious beliefs. And that was a huge breath of fresh air.
David.... you are a breath of fresh air. As I have time, I've been attempting on MJ, through occasional offerings of common sense and free thought opinions, to pull some of the "religious" toward the right path of rational thinking, away from the superstitious thinking as promoted by the various religions. In our troubled society, we should seek truth as we are able. The main obstacles to truth are the persuasions of individuals in authority (church leaders and politicians), the traditions of antiquity, and majority opinion.
Quote from: ronchamblin on November 03, 2012, 07:45:44 PM
Quote from: David on November 03, 2012, 04:38:07 PM
I proudly say "God" (whatever that is to everyone) is # 0. Friends, family and morals that are instilled in every decent human being regardless of their religious (or lack of) religions beliefs are in the top 3 for me!
It was refreshing to see that Jacksonville wasn't as religious and "god intoxicated" (love that term) as I thought once I was able to get away from my religious upbringing and private christian schools. Hanging out at various venues that encouraged independent & free thinking thought as a 17 year old showed me that not everyone in this town has the same by the book religious beliefs. And that was a huge breath of fresh air.
David.... you are a breath of fresh air. As I have time, I've been attempting on MJ, through occasional offerings of common sense and free thought opinions, to pull some of the "religious" toward the right path of rational thinking, away from the superstitious thinking as promoted by the various religions. In our troubled society, we should seek truth as we are able. The main obstacles to truth are the persuasions of individuals in authority (church leaders and politicians), the traditions of antiquity, and majority opinion.
David and Ron, right on!
Nobody talks so constantly about God as those who insist that there is no God.
Heywood Broun (1888 - 1939)
Quote from: If_I_Loved_you on November 04, 2012, 10:05:30 AM
Nobody talks so constantly about God as those who insist that there is no God.
Heywood Broun (1888 - 1939)
If some old dead guy said something you agree with, you can quote it to lend your argument a false veneer of credibility. Even if it's untrue or cannot possibly be proved.
Adam White (1972 - present)
Quote from: Adam W on November 04, 2012, 10:09:12 AM
Quote from: If_I_Loved_you on November 04, 2012, 10:05:30 AM
Nobody talks so constantly about God as those who insist that there is no God.
Heywood Broun (1888 - 1939)
If some old dead guy said something you agree with, you can quote it to lend your argument a false veneer of credibility. Even if it's untrue or cannot possibly be proved.
Adam White (1972 - present)
We will all find out one day when we die? But in my heart I will be in Heaven with God. ;)
Quote from: If_I_Loved_you on November 04, 2012, 10:34:59 AM
Quote from: Adam W on November 04, 2012, 10:09:12 AM
Quote from: If_I_Loved_you on November 04, 2012, 10:05:30 AM
Nobody talks so constantly about God as those who insist that there is no God.
Heywood Broun (1888 - 1939)
If some old dead guy said something you agree with, you can quote it to lend your argument a false veneer of credibility. Even if it's untrue or cannot possibly be proved.
Adam White (1972 - present)
We will all find out one day when we die? But in my heart I will be in Heaven with God. ;)
No, not if there is no god we won't.
Quote from: Adam W on November 04, 2012, 10:35:45 AM
Quote from: If_I_Loved_you on November 04, 2012, 10:34:59 AM
Quote from: Adam W on November 04, 2012, 10:09:12 AM
Quote from: If_I_Loved_you on November 04, 2012, 10:05:30 AM
Nobody talks so constantly about God as those who insist that there is no God.
Heywood Broun (1888 - 1939)
If some old dead guy said something you agree with, you can quote it to lend your argument a false veneer of credibility. Even if it's untrue or cannot possibly be proved.
Adam White (1972 - present)
We will all find out one day when we die? But in my heart I will be in Heaven with God. ;)
No, not if there is no god we won't.
Adam you could waterboard me for two days and if I died? I would still believe in God and that I would still be going to Heaven to be with my Lord and savior. ;)
Quote from: If_I_Loved_you on November 04, 2012, 10:59:14 AM
Quote from: Adam W on November 04, 2012, 10:35:45 AM
Quote from: If_I_Loved_you on November 04, 2012, 10:34:59 AM
Quote from: Adam W on November 04, 2012, 10:09:12 AM
Quote from: If_I_Loved_you on November 04, 2012, 10:05:30 AM
Nobody talks so constantly about God as those who insist that there is no God.
Heywood Broun (1888 - 1939)
If some old dead guy said something you agree with, you can quote it to lend your argument a false veneer of credibility. Even if it's untrue or cannot possibly be proved.
Adam White (1972 - present)
We will all find out one day when we die? But in my heart I will be in Heaven with God. ;)
No, not if there is no god we won't.
Adam you could waterboard me for two days and if I died? I would still believe in God and that I would still be going to Heaven to be with my Lord and savior. ;)
I don't follow. I accept that there is a possibility (even if it is a remote one) that I may find out there is a god when I die. If there is not, however, I will not know... as I will be dead.
Although you may believe there is a god (and I don't fault you for that, even if I don't agree or understand your faith), your situation is no different. If there is no god, you won't find that out when you die, because you'll be dead and you won't know anything anymore.
Quote from: If_I_Loved_you on November 04, 2012, 10:59:14 AM
Quote from: Adam W on November 04, 2012, 10:35:45 AM
Quote from: If_I_Loved_you on November 04, 2012, 10:34:59 AM
Quote from: Adam W on November 04, 2012, 10:09:12 AM
Quote from: If_I_Loved_you on November 04, 2012, 10:05:30 AM
Nobody talks so constantly about God as those who insist that there is no God.
Heywood Broun (1888 - 1939)
If some old dead guy said something you agree with, you can quote it to lend your argument a false veneer of credibility. Even if it's untrue or cannot possibly be proved.
Adam White (1972 - present)
We will all find out one day when we die? But in my heart I will be in Heaven with God. ;)
No, not if there is no god we won't.
Adam you could waterboard me for two days and if I died? I would still believe in God and that I would still be going to Heaven to be with my Lord and savior. ;)
huh?
Quote
Nobody talks so constantly about God as those who insist that there is no God.
Heywood Broun (1888 - 1939)
...And nobody talks so constantly against God as those who have never experienced him. A lifetime of focus on a non entity seems proof enough that one exists.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on November 04, 2012, 03:17:57 PM
Quote
Nobody talks so constantly about God as those who insist that there is no God.
Heywood Broun (1888 - 1939)
...And nobody talks so constantly against God as those who have never experienced him. A lifetime of focus on a non entity seems proof enough that one exists.
Can you explain what "experiencing him" feels like???? Also, how'd you know it wasn't "her" you were experiencing?
Quote from: ben says on November 04, 2012, 03:38:23 PM
Quote from: Ocklawaha on November 04, 2012, 03:17:57 PM
Quote
Nobody talks so constantly about God as those who insist that there is no God.
Heywood Broun (1888 - 1939)
...And nobody talks so constantly against God as those who have never experienced him. A lifetime of focus on a non entity seems proof enough that one exists.
Can you explain what "experiencing him" feels like???? Also, how'd you know it wasn't "her" you were experiencing?
Without true faith you will Never have the experience of God in your heart Ben.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on November 04, 2012, 03:17:57 PM
Quote
Nobody talks so constantly about God as those who insist that there is no God.
Heywood Broun (1888 - 1939)
...And nobody talks so constantly against God as those who have never experienced him. A lifetime of focus on a non entity seems proof enough that one exists.
Seems a bit tautological.
Empirical.
Being a Christian city has worked out pretty good for Rome, perhaps we could make the proverbial lemonade out of what some perceive as lemons. God knows we already have enough lions. ;D
Quote from: Ocklawaha on November 04, 2012, 08:47:16 PM
Empirical.
Actually, I was thinking of tautological in a rhetorical sense, but I wasn't really right. I couldn't think of the term to describe what was wrong with this statement:
"A lifetime of focus on a non entity seems proof enough that one exists."
Is it maybe circular reasoning?
That's a hybrid species, sort of a combination of non sequitur and affirming the consequent.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on November 05, 2012, 06:29:24 AM
That's a hybrid species, sort of a combination of non sequitur and affirming the consequent.
Someone did well on their LSAT...
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on November 05, 2012, 06:29:24 AM
That's a hybrid species, sort of a combination of non sequitur and affirming the consequent.
It's begging the question, isn't it?
Quote from: Adam W on November 05, 2012, 09:10:36 AM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on November 05, 2012, 06:29:24 AM
That's a hybrid species, sort of a combination of non sequitur and affirming the consequent.
It's begging the question, isn't it?
Ding ding ding. Come on people, know your logical fallacies.
I thought that at first, but when you look at it, it's not preconclusory. It's really an attempted conflation of cause & effect, combining both a non-sequitur and affirming the consequent. He's saying that because a bunch of people spend time doing something, it must mean XYZ. It's really a hybrid.
I don't know about that Chris, it seems to me bizarre to insist that one has surreal analogical evidence that there is no God, then to subvert that logic by a irrational lifetime focus on the negative. Talk about logical incongruity?
My adult daughters once believed in the tooth faerie and often spoke of "her." I can't remember a single moment where I ever focused a conversation or argument on the unlikeliness of her existence. When they would lay on the carpet and stare out into a darkened woods then excitedly proclaim they had seen a faerie, who am I to tell them they didn't. ::)
"Like Buddha at the sermon where he didn't say a word, meaning: if you think you hear a flower, its a flower that you heard."
"There is nothing more dreadful than the habit of doubt. Doubt separates people. It is a poison that disintegrates friendships and breaks up pleasant relations. It is a thorn that irritates and hurts; it is a sword that kills. As a solid rock is not shaken by the wind, the wise are not moved by praise or blame.†;)
― Siddhārtha Gautama
It’s interesting to notice how frequently a conversation, no matter its subject, shifts to religion, and finally to the argument of the existence of a god. I am so sensitive that some might erroneously assume that I might believe in the existence of a god, I never use the phrase “existence of Godâ€, but instead use “existence of a godâ€, as the first use might imply a belief in existence.
One usually doesn’t express concern about other’s beliefs in fantastic things or amusements. Perhaps any concern is also unwarranted because fantasies seem to be innocent and good for the mind in general, and some might lead to unexpected pleasures or even interesting truths.
And one doesn’t become concerned about another’s drift into imaginary beings or things, or even superstitions, unless the consequences of believing is harmful to individuals or societies. After all, the stretch of the mind to imagine all kinds of things is an exercise in mind and spirit which might offer on occasion, glimpses into realities which would escape the purely logical thinker.
We might recall times throughout history when astrology, instead of more rational methods was used by leaders to make important decisions affecting large populations. And during the 15th and 16th centuries, the belief in witches by the popes and the lower clergy caused the burning of thousands of women believed to be witches, such is the power of belief, even when ultimately there is absolutely no truth to it.
How can one compare a belief in a god to a belief in a witch? … or even to a belief in astrology, tooth fairies, or Santa Claus? Obviously some of these beliefs can be harmful and wasteful; and certainly life threatening if one is thought to be a witch.
So, what is it about the arguments for or against the belief in a god, which seem to surface in so many forum discussions? Obviously some individuals sincerely believe that their god exists. Why do some compare this belief in a god to other’s beliefs in astrology, various superstitions, in witches, bigfoot, tooth fairies, Santa Claus, unicorns, and other entities emerging from the fruitful imagination of the human species?
Does the comparison exist because, just as with all of the other beliefs, there has never in the history of mankind been any evidence to support the existence of any of these things, including a god? It has taken only several centuries to cure humanity's belief in witches and many other superstitions of the pre-science era. How many centuries, how many millions of years will it take for humanity to stop believing in a god? Does the belief linger because of the deep need in many humans, to be cared for, even as adults? Is their god like a father, and therefore the source of comfort, and an entity to which they can send their cares, and their responsibilities?
Are there harmful consequences of humanity’s beliefs in the existence of gods? Because of a belief in gods, have some wars been fought, with the suffering of millions as a result? Are some populations currently subdued into complacency, shaped, maneuvered, and held captive in dictatorships, as a consequence of their belief in a god? Does belief in a god allow some populations to assume the character of sheep? Does a belief in a god allow millions to waste billions supporting charlatans like Joel Osteen, Jimmy Swaggart, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Jim Bakker, and their ilk? Does a belief in a god allow some to shed responsibility for their own decisions and behaviors? Does a belief in a god promote moods and habits of superstition and non-science, thereby causing societies, communities, and individuals to be vulnerable to suffering and death when they are subjected to conditions which threaten their existence and wellbeing? Does a belief in a god rid oneself of the necessity to exercise critical thinking?
Does a belief in a god allow some to give excessive attention to this superstition, when they should give more attention to solutions to worldly problems affecting their families and their societies? Does a belief in a god allow too many to squander this life preparing for the next, when they should they give sober attention to enjoying this life? Does a belief in a god give a false comfort to the masses, allowing them to possess the complacency and habits of sheep, thereby giving full reign to those in government, wall-street, and the corporate world, who, by way of their greed and positions of power, rape them of all life’s necessities? Has this happened in America? Is it still happening?
Don't confuse the weaknesses of humans with God, Ron. We strive to be Christ-like, but we don't get there. Some get farther than others. :-) As to empirical proof, it's a leap of faith. First you believe, then you get the proof. It's the mystery of faith, and modern man doesn't like mysteries.
Quote from: Debbie Thompson on November 06, 2012, 07:01:09 AM
Don't confuse the weaknesses of humans with God, Ron. We strive to be Christ-like, but we don't get there. Some get farther than others. :-) As to empirical proof, it's a leap of faith. First you believe, then you get the proof. It's the mystery of faith, and modern man doesn't like mysteries.
Amen!