I just saw this in the BJ, and it's really sad news. The bridge, power lines, and lethargic government have combined to allow a pipsqueak town like Savannah to steal away our advantage. Large ships won't fit and small ones won't make money. Better plan on doing something fast or turning Blount Island into a Boy Scout Camp.
QuoteJACKSONVILLE â€" Hanjin Shipping Co. Ltd.’s 2012 brochure says it still anticipates building a container terminal in Jacksonville, but the expected date is now 2017.
Hanjin’s container terminal was originally scheduled to be built in 2011. However, the Jacksonville Port Authority and the company agreed to postpone selecting an engineering firm to design the terminal because Hanjin was uncertain its larger ships would fit in the shipping channel.
Hanjin executive Mike Radak said in December 2011 that it’s not economical to bring smaller ships to the East Coast of the U.S., but Jacksonville’s port doesn’t have the deep water for larger vessels.
Will fixing Mile Point accommodate Hajin's ships or are they waiting for approval and the funds to dredge the river to 48'-50'? If its dredging to 48', don't get your hopes up to high that this deal will materialize before 2020, if ever.
Btw, hasn't Savannah's port always been larger than Jacksonville's? It's basically an extension of Atlanta.
they want the full deepening although they've never stated what the minimum depth would need to be.
And yes, Savannah is MUCH larger than Jax for containers.....roughly 3 times bigger...and second only on the east coast to NY-NJ!
Good luck on the full deepening. We're no closer to that taking place than we were two years ago. Unfortunately, time doesn't stand still to wait for Jacksonville to get its act together. Several others are still actively moving forward.
Seems like every port has drawbacks, though, but that every other port is winning bids to fix their drawbacks (whether that be a lack of a rail connection/intermodal hub or necessary deepening, etc). Jacksonville's port has so many drawbacks - wire crossing, Dames Point, long river, tidal issues, low depth, competition with Charleston, Savannah, Brunswick, Port Everglades AND Port of Miami, lack of established container business, pollutants forcing automobile shippers north, etc etc.
Don't believe the hype, Hanjin's delay has been due as much to trouble with the prospective union contract as it has been Mile Point or the deepening of the channel. We will not catch Savannah in container volume, nor do we need to.
It's not all death and decay, though. Blount Island will survive, and the long-overdue capital expenditures currently ongoing to shore up the infrastructure & dockface at Blount Island will keep it profitable and competitive for the foreseeable future. The next superport? Not hardly. But a boy scout camp? Thankfully, we're a long way off from that as well.
^^^Are union contracts more difficult to negotiate in Jacksonville than in other port cities? Not a sarcastic question, I promise! Jax just doesn't strike me as a big union town, but the ILA has certainly been in the news A LOT with regards to contracts. Do these negotiations with the ILA take as long in Miami or Savannah, Norfolk or NY-NJ?
**qualifying my following statement as an observer in the industry, not a party directly involved in the negotiations**
Jacksonville is not a "big union town" where the port is concerned. We have several reputable non-union stevedoring, warehouse, and drayage operations. The ILA still rules the container work, however, and as such, they have a seat at the table during the early phases of the contract negotiations to bring in terminals like TraPac and Hanjin. Unfortunately, union wage & employment goals tend to be at odds with the operating and budgetary goals of the most modern "automated" container terminals. Thanks to extensive use of computer-controlled yard management and RTGs (which are put in place to increase accuracy, efficiency, and speed), there is a corresponding decrease in the number of stevedores required to operate the terminal. Unions don't like that.
My sense is that Mile Point and the dredging issue only provided Hanjin a convenient and plausible excuse to further delay commencement of construction. The cost of ongoing operations is a bigger issue. The general downturn in the economy is not as much a deterrent as you would think, since marine terminal operators are very good at investing in infrastructure during downturns. Check out the volume of new ship orders over the last couple of years and it will show that the marine industry is usually ahead of the curve in terms of investing during a downturn (not always to their benefit).
Check out the letter that Hanjin sent to COJ a few years back if you want a great display of "you need us more than we need you" negotiating.
http://news.jacksonville.com/specials/pdfs/Hanjin_letter.pdf (http://news.jacksonville.com/specials/pdfs/Hanjin_letter.pdf)
So how does the city help Hanjin if the union contract negotiation is the major holdup? And how is it that ILA seems to hold the Port of Jacksonville hostage moreso than at other ports, or maybe I'm missing the picture.
Not exactly sure the importance of all of this depth talk when it comes to JaxPort, or any port for that matter. Savannah is the 2nd largest port (by cargo volume) and they currently have a depth of 42'. So ... is the only reason we need to 48-50' depths is to compete for post Panamax ships?
Sorry I've been out of town and out of touch y'all. Here's the deal, the largest Panamax Ship CAN go up river to Blount Island, but it can't do that trick with a full cargo load. Ditto for the Port of Savannah. The ships generally need at least a 2 foot clearance to enter the port, so a post Panamax Ship with 14,000 TEU's (container speak for a standard 20' foot box container), can't go up our channel. The same ship riding high in the water due to having only a couple thousand containers can indeed get to our port. The killer comes in when the same ship is trying to get to the new container terminals west of the power lines and bridge, Here is where it gets REALLY sticky, the ships have an air draft of about 190 feet, but the Dames Point Bridge is only 175 feet. A ship can pump water to ride lower, but if the channel isn't deep enough that can't happen either. Fully loaded one of these ships will have a draft of 50'. So those are the tricky numbers you'll have to play with.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 05, 2012, 11:32:31 AM
Good luck on the full deepening. We're no closer to that taking place than we were two years ago. Unfortunately, time doesn't stand still to wait for Jacksonville to get its act together. Several others are still actively moving forward.
At the last Jacksonville Waterways meeting it was announced by a representative of the Army Corps of Engineers that the Jax Harbor Dredge should have the draft report complete in April, 2013 and the final report in April 2014.
The problem isn't the report. The problem is finding the money to implement it before half the ports along the east coast do exactly the same.
I think the Dames Point was originally supposed to be 190-200 feet tall but was cut back to save some money. That sure was a great deal. Save a few million up front, but kill out cruise ship and cargo ship business in the process.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 08, 2012, 06:54:56 AM
The problem isn't the report. The problem is finding the money to implement it before half the ports along the east coast do exactly the same.
The report is key. At the last Jacksonville Waterways Commission Meeting the only item on the agenda was a presentation by the Administration (RK) turned out to be a verbal update.
How ironic then that a representative of the Army Corps of Engineers happened to be at the almost empty meeting and felt compelled during Public comment to address verbal corrections as it relates to the Jax Harbor Dredging.
Going forward you can have all the money in the world but what if the final report says 44' instead of 50'? The issue moving forward will be does the Timucuan (Federal) trump port business. It's coming and the delay could have Jacksonville reevaluating the position as it relates to the size of ships that we will be recognized for.
In the meantime who wants to go kayaking and fishing Downtown under the brand new No Fishing signs that was never before Waterways.
I am Downtown and why you aren't.
I'm downtown pretty often. In fact, I'll be at council tonight.
Quote from: Dapperdan on October 08, 2012, 04:27:20 PM
I think the Dames Point was originally supposed to be 190-200 feet tall but was cut back to save some money. That sure was a great deal. Save a few million up front, but kill out cruise ship and cargo ship business in the process.
You might be right, I do remember a huge fight with the maritime interests to get them to make it higher, in the end a compromise of sorts was worked out. In retrospect, those marine industry movers and shakers saw this coming a long, long, time before FDOT or JTA/COJ. You could have the wolds largest city on the worlds most perfect waterways, but you won't have a port if the draft, both air and river, are at bare minimums. That's exactly where we find ourselves, and we've cashiered the land (what there was of it) between those obstacles and the ocean with a natural preserve.