Metro Jacksonville

Jacksonville by Neighborhood => Urban Neighborhoods => Springfield => Topic started by: zoo on February 07, 2008, 04:31:17 PM

Title: Springfield ups efforts to get retail
Post by: zoo on February 07, 2008, 04:31:17 PM
Just stumbled on this info:

http://srghomes.com/2008/
Title: Re: Springfield ups efforts to get retail
Post by: City Slicker on February 12, 2008, 02:34:12 AM
Right now SPAR is taking the lead in working with the consultants.  It is still early in the process, but they are the lead agency.  There is a SPAR Development Committee which is working with another process to stimulate commercial redevelopment of the area.  A plan will eventually emerge and hopefully a new staff person may be brought in to serve as a "mall manager" to actually implement a corridor revitalization plan.  Several things going that all will be pulled together in a cohesive union to move everything forward.  Exciting opportunity.
Title: Re: Springfield ups efforts to get retail
Post by: thelakelander on February 18, 2008, 03:41:24 AM
This will replace a vacant fast food restaurant and auto repair shop, two blocks north of the historic district boundaries.

QuoteNew retail on Main Street

Retail chain Family Dollar is planning to build a store on North Main Street, between 16th and 17th streets.

The South Carolina-based chain filed a St. Johns River Water Management District review application for the project
quote]

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/021808/bus_247468327.shtml

Title: Re: Springfield ups efforts to get retail
Post by: jason_contentdg on February 18, 2008, 07:47:24 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on February 18, 2008, 03:41:24 AM
This will replace a vacant fast food restaurant and auto repair shop, two blocks north of the historic district boundaries.

QuoteNew retail on Main Street

Retail chain Family Dollar is planning to build a store on North Main Street, between 16th and 17th streets.

The South Carolina-based chain filed a St. Johns River Water Management District review application for the project
quote]

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/021808/bus_247468327.shtml



I prefer that to the original intended site on main, between 8th and 9th.
Title: Re: Springfield ups efforts to get retail
Post by: downtownparks on February 18, 2008, 07:58:32 AM
Yeah, I think most of us do.

I understand CVS is hot and heavy to come into Spr now too. They want to be on Main St, and have been working with several owners to find the location.

I am all for it, I just hope they make an effort to make the building look less suburban than the other stuff they have built.

It looks like they are willing to to some degree, at least from a quick google search.

(http://static.flickr.com/21/33202055_2d95b4249b.jpg)

(http://activerain.com/image_store/uploads/9/3/8/9/1/ar117529713219839.jpg)

(http://ww1.prweb.com/prfiles/2006/11/09/476521/cvs400.jpg)
Title: Re: Springfield ups efforts to get retail
Post by: thelakelander on February 18, 2008, 08:18:57 AM
They've done it in the past, but like Walgreen's (on 8th) they probably won't on their own.  Its going to be up to SPAR, the historic commission and the COJ Planning Department to make sure they do. 
Title: Re: Springfield ups efforts to get retail
Post by: Traveller on February 18, 2008, 08:24:39 AM
I'm a big fan of the one on the Vegas strip myself.  8)

(http://lostpear.com/galleries/vegas/IMG_1113.jpg)
Title: Re: Springfield ups efforts to get retail
Post by: jbm32206 on February 18, 2008, 08:27:43 AM
I would love to have a CVS come to Springfield!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Springfield ups efforts to get retail
Post by: thelakelander on February 18, 2008, 08:32:44 AM
Me too, as long as the building fronts the sidewalk.  I'd hate to see it end up like the Park & King Walgreens.
Title: Re: Springfield ups efforts to get retail
Post by: jbm32206 on February 18, 2008, 08:50:10 AM
I agree with you on that..
Title: Re: Springfield ups efforts to get retail
Post by: fpj on February 18, 2008, 09:10:39 AM
Quote from: downtownparks on February 18, 2008, 07:58:32 AM

(http://static.flickr.com/21/33202055_2d95b4249b.jpg)


WTH is that on top of their sign?  Immediately brought to my mind some vents:

(http://www.snopes.com/photos/risque/graphics/utahhouse1_small.jpg)
http://www.snopes.com/photos/risque/ventcover.asp (http://www.snopes.com/photos/risque/ventcover.asp)

that were built facing their complaining neighbors when they built their house 18 inches too tall :)

But seriously, I agree whole heartedly with zero lot line urbanism, but that only works when there is enough pedestrian traffic to offset the lack of onsite parking.  And in this town?  Come on.  Everyone drives.  It's almost like LA STORY when Steve Martin drove to his neighbor's house :)

Now, I suppose they could do it in reverse, zero lot line to the sidewalk in front with a parking lot/drive up prescription window in back, but then does that really accomplish anything to push along the urban concept of walking a block or two instead of driving?

So, until a business can be assured that they can make money from a total walkup customer base, they will build back from the property line with "friendly" onsite parking in front.

Title: Re: Springfield ups efforts to get retail
Post by: thelakelander on February 18, 2008, 09:33:31 AM
QuoteNow, I suppose they could do it in reverse, zero lot line to the sidewalk in front with a parking lot/drive up prescription window in back, but then does that really accomplish anything to push along the urban concept of walking a block or two instead of driving?

This does help, because it follows the traditional development pattern of Main Street.  If all buildings were designed in this manner, the streets would then be both pedestrian friendly and still friendly for an autocentric city, such as Jax.  Parallel parking, already present on Main, would still be in place and additional parking would be located at the rear of the property, with landscaped sidewalks along the side streets leading into the residential neighborhoods.

QuoteSo, until a business can be assured that they can make money from a total walkup customer base, they will build back from the property line with "friendly" onsite parking in front.

In this scenerio, it does not cost a business a penny more to have the site laid out this way.  However, the city does improve the look and feel of the street, by creating a commercial zone with a sense of place that is unique from the rest in sprawlsville.  The city can control this easily through zoning and setbacks.  The zoning designation along Main, should just state that all new buildings must have a front setback no deeper than 5' to 10' or so from the property line (it may already say something like this in the overlay). 
Title: Re: Springfield ups efforts to get retail
Post by: jbm32206 on February 18, 2008, 09:34:38 AM
It does, indeed...look like it's giving us the finger...how funny...
Title: Re: Springfield ups efforts to get retail
Post by: fpj on February 18, 2008, 10:04:50 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on February 18, 2008, 09:33:31 AM
QuoteNow, I suppose they could do it in reverse, zero lot line to the sidewalk in front with a parking lot/drive up prescription window in back, but then does that really accomplish anything to push along the urban concept of walking a block or two instead of driving?

This does help, because it follows the traditional development pattern of Main Street.  If all buildings were designed in this manner, the streets would then be both pedestrian friendly and still friendly for an autocentric city, such as Jax.  Parallel parking, already present on Main, would still be in place and additional parking would be located at the rear of the property, with landscaped sidewalks along the side streets leading into the residential neighborhoods.

QuoteSo, until a business can be assured that they can make money from a total walkup customer base, they will build back from the property line with "friendly" onsite parking in front.

In this scenerio, it does not cost a business a penny more to have the site laid out this way.  However, the city does improve the look and feel of the street, by creating a commercial zone with a sense of place that is unique from the rest in sprawlsville.  The city can control this easily through zoning and setbacks.  The zoning designation along Main, should just state that all new buildings must have a front setback no deeper than 5' to 10' or so from the property line (it may already say something like this in the overlay). 

I am agreeing with you.  But chains such as CVS/Walgreens have survived/thrived by being cookie cutter in nature.  So I would imagine that they would be looking at some of the open lots to build a new space on, not rehab an old one.  Only when the COJ lays down the law and mandates that you must keep with the urban theme of an area with respect to new construction will new construction maintain that look and feel.  From your comments, it sounds like they have, so let's hope they don't allow otherwise when a large chain dangles a carrot.

Maybe the COJ can get some more backbone from The National Trust for Historic Preservation and their success stories regarding this exact issue:  http://www.nationaltrust.org/issues/chain_drugstores/drugstores_success_stories.html (http://www.nationaltrust.org/issues/chain_drugstores/drugstores_success_stories.html)

On another note, looking at this picture again has had me googling all over the place, :

(http://static.flickr.com/21/33202055_2d95b4249b.jpg)

Is it me or does this look like they've infilled an old theatre?  Better than tearing it down, but a shame on other levels if so.



Title: Re: Springfield ups efforts to get retail
Post by: downtownparks on February 18, 2008, 11:00:26 AM
I believe the zoning overlay requires zero frontage. This shouldnt even be an issue. If you build in a historic district, you have to expect to fit in.

A few years ago when Sleighman was trying to get his hands on Gateway Park (now Mcpherson) to try to do the Walgreen's now going in down the street, the rendering they brought was their normal layout, which I think we can all agree wont work.

Ideally, it would make the most sense for them to work with the Cesarys or Hionides to become part of a larger development, rather than having a free standing structure.
Title: Re: Springfield ups efforts to get retail
Post by: jbm32206 on February 18, 2008, 11:43:40 AM
That's true, but from what Lakelander said "two blocks north of the historic district boundaries" so it wouldn't actually be in the historic district.
Title: Re: Springfield ups efforts to get retail
Post by: downtownparks on February 18, 2008, 11:59:14 AM
CVS is looking in the district. The dollar store is the one thats outside of it, I believe.
Title: Re: Springfield ups efforts to get retail
Post by: jbm32206 on February 18, 2008, 12:21:00 PM
Oh, okay...thanks....
Title: Re: Springfield ups efforts to get retail
Post by: fpj on February 18, 2008, 12:30:26 PM
Quote from: downtownparks on February 18, 2008, 11:59:14 AM
CVS is looking in the district. The dollar store is the one thats outside of it, I believe.

Honestly, I am NOT trying to be antagonistic, I think a bit of flu has me all up in #^@*&^@$#&*.  But what's to stop them from dropping a McSuburbia styled store in the midst of one of the used car lots?  From a dollar standpoint, this would seem to be the most expeditious route instead of rehabing an existing building.
Title: Re: Springfield ups efforts to get retail
Post by: thelakelander on February 18, 2008, 12:41:31 PM
QuoteBut what's to stop them from dropping a McSuburbia styled store in the midst of one of the used car lots?

In Springfield, zoning.  Whatever you build can't be more than 10' from the front property line, within the historic district.    Since a parking lot with a drive and one row of stalls is 42', its impossible to build a structure with parking up front.   To get around that, you have to either get a variance or apply for a PUD.  Unfortunately, for most of the urban core, such as the Family Dollar site, this is not a requirement, thus the parking lots.

The city recently revised most of the zoning code.  Now that we're discussing this, it would have been nice if Springfield's building setback requirement would have been extended to other urban core neighborhoods.