Metro Jacksonville

Jacksonville by Neighborhood => Urban Neighborhoods => Topic started by: Metro Jacksonville on October 03, 2012, 03:05:08 AM

Title: Exposing Jacksonville's "Phoenix"
Post by: Metro Jacksonville on October 03, 2012, 03:05:08 AM
Exposing Jacksonville's "Phoenix"

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/2097377937_x92psQr-M.jpg)

Outside of downtown Jacksonville, when one mentions urban neighborhoods, the names of Riverside/Avondale, San Marco, and Springfield come to mind.  However, Jacksonville is a city blessed to have several historical communities just as impressive and walkable in their own right.  Just east of Springfield and straddling Phoenix Avenue, what began as the Dyal Upchurch subdivision is a relatively unknown urban core treat.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2012-oct-exposing-jacksonvilles-phoenix
Title: Re: Exposing Jacksonville's
Post by: Noone on October 03, 2012, 03:15:01 AM
Another beautiful journey through Jacksonville history.
Title: Re: Exposing Jacksonville's
Post by: peestandingup on October 03, 2012, 04:37:22 AM
Yep. This area is great. I ride my bike through there sometimes & am always impressed by it. Don't get me wrong, its still shady in some places, but thats just because its underutilized. This, and down through the Philip Randolph neighborhoods, are actually my favorite in the entire urban core.

Plus, its one of the few downtown land adjacents that actually has plenty of housing stock left that hasn't been bulldozed or completely neglected. Its a real shame that these areas aren't flourishing right now.
Title: Re: Exposing Jacksonville's
Post by: Mathew1056 on October 03, 2012, 06:17:43 AM
It's only a matter of time before this area is recognized by the general public as a desirable place to live. I think it will be a step by step process, though. The economy seems to be recovering and businesses are showing interest in downtown and Springfield. Once a healthy flow of capital begins coming back into these neighborhoods those looking to buy in the urban core market will begin to look for cheaper options. Then the gentrification process begins....
Title: Re: Exposing Jacksonville's
Post by: dougskiles on October 03, 2012, 06:21:22 AM
The magic of the phoenix is that it rises after each death.  Maybe there is hope!  Love the article.  I am going to swing through the neighborhood the next time I am in Springfield.
Title: Re: Exposing Jacksonville's
Post by: gedo3 on October 03, 2012, 07:46:57 AM
I'm hopeful, too, that this Phoenix will rise.  And I am impressed by the quality and love shown in the homes in the neighborhood.  The people who live there obviously care!
Title: Re: Exposing Jacksonville's
Post by: GoldenEst82 on October 03, 2012, 11:11:49 AM
I drive through this neighborhood twice a day, and I am so happy to see it highlighted. I have often looked at the area and thought, "I wish this could come back." I am very happy to see this neighborhood featured!
Title: Re: Exposing Jacksonville's
Post by: duvaldude08 on October 03, 2012, 11:22:34 AM
The Good ole eastside. Have lots of family out there and spent alot of time out there as a child. Great to finally see the history of the area. Good stuff!
Title: Re: Exposing Jacksonville's
Post by: Tacachale on October 03, 2012, 01:09:08 PM
I've always thought the Eastside could be Jacksonville's next great urban revival neighborhood. It has the buildings and the vibe, all it needs is some momentum. Once that happens it could take off faster than Springfield.
Title: Re: Exposing Jacksonville's
Post by: thelakelander on October 03, 2012, 01:17:58 PM
Yes, the Eastside has some great bones to work with.  With that in mind, so does Durkeeville, New Springfield and Brentwood.  These communities are another reason I'm a big supporter of fixed rail transit and the S-Line.  It offers the opportunity to connect all of these communities together and with downtown, simultaneously spurring market rate redevelopment in downtown and all of them.
Title: Re: Exposing Jacksonville's \
Post by: KuroiKetsunoHana on October 03, 2012, 02:53:24 PM
i lived there for a few years (duplex on 16th).  i loved it.  wonderfully quiet neighbourhood.  i think the only area i like more is where i live now <3
Title: Re: Exposing Jacksonville's \
Post by: duvaldude08 on October 03, 2012, 03:06:27 PM
The Eastside is also much safer than it was in the past. My grand parents stay off 21st and Buckman. It was alwasy referred to as the hood was very crime ridden. Nowadays, its actually very quiet. Everyone has mirgrated to the NW side and the eastside is pretty quiet and dormant now. Perfect time to bring it back to life!
Title: Re: Exposing Jacksonville's
Post by: BrooklynSouth on October 03, 2012, 04:39:40 PM
That park is perfect for kids. Wow. No traffic and surrounded by houses. In Chicago or New Jersey, having that kind of park in front of your house is worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. Great article. I'm very curious about "Eastside", which I've never heard anyone say before. I've heard Northside, Westside, and Southside, but never Eastside.
Title: Re: Exposing Jacksonville's \
Post by: KuroiKetsunoHana on October 03, 2012, 05:01:32 PM
you ain't never been OutEast?
Title: Re: Exposing Jacksonville's \
Post by: Tacachale on October 03, 2012, 05:08:44 PM
^Brooklyn, Eastside isn't a big section of Jacksonville like the Northside, Southside, or Westside (or Arlington), it's one neighborhood (or a group of a few neighborhoods, depending on how you look at it). It's also pretty impoverished and other than the industrial areas, which employ a lot of people, it doesn't have much that would necessarily bring people from other parts of town right now. Don't tell that to people from those parts, though; many of them consider their area to be equally as significant as the other "sides", and for good reason. East Jacksonville has phenomenal bones, great architecture, and a boatload of potential.
Title: Re: Exposing Jacksonville's
Post by: BackinJax05 on October 03, 2012, 05:50:02 PM
Dont know when the Evergreen Filling Station opened, but when I was a kid it was a repair shop owned by the late Herbert Packham. My grandparents & parents took their cars there for service.

Before computers diagnosed car problems there was Mr. Packham. This guy was amazing - and honest! He could tell what was wrong with a car simply by leaning over the engine and listening to the idle. Mr. Packham retired several years ago, and died a couple of years ago.

I also remember a little farther down 8th street a Hardees, a post office, a Dixie Vim gas station, and a Pic N Save.

PHOENIX would be a perfect neighborhood to gentrify!
Title: Re: Exposing Jacksonville's \
Post by: John P on October 03, 2012, 05:50:41 PM
forgive me but I dont see anything as a "treat" there. It is extremly low income with significant crime. think Springfield pre 1984 but without as much crack violence. It took Riverside the better part of three decades to be revitalized to where it is today. Springfield is only half way there and has another decade to go. Phoenix or eastside is 0% of the way there. Check back in 25 years and it may be somewhere worth living or it may be gone all together because property owners cant take care of their homes and theres no historic designation preventing them from being demolished.
Title: Re: Exposing Jacksonville's
Post by: thelakelander on October 03, 2012, 05:59:47 PM
The "treat" would be the historic amenities that make up an urban neighborhood still standing.  These include the gridded streets, it's centralized location, long time companies still in operation, the neighborhood park and its preserved historic building fabric.  It terms of stimulating revitalization, it has multiple things to work with.  Many older urban communities don't have as much.
Title: Re: Exposing Jacksonville's \
Post by: KuroiKetsunoHana on October 03, 2012, 06:04:27 PM
BackinJax05, no.  let's not gentrify anything, thanks.  John P, really?  significant crime?  never heard ov a break-in or anything in the area the whole time i lived there, and the only time i heard gunshots was when some redneck neighbours (who left after a couple months) were shooting at some beer cans in their backyard.  what do you think makes a place worth living?
Title: Re: Exposing Jacksonville's \
Post by: peestandingup on October 03, 2012, 06:22:27 PM
Lake is correct. Eastside is not nearly as bad as Springfield was back in the 80s. Plus, there's really not that many houses that are abandoned or look like they're ready to fall over/be demoed (something Spr is still struggling with today with a good chuck of their housing stock). Most of it looks to be quite livable if you're willing to accept it for what it is. Could it be better? Absolutely. But I def wouldn't give it a 0%.

But unfortunately John is right in saying that it could go either way. Things like this seem like they take forever here & are very flakey. If these neighborhoods were up north or out west somewhere, they'd be thriving. Most of it seems caused by the city's lack of vision & sitting on their hands.

Fixed transit would do wonders.
Title: Re: Exposing Jacksonville's \
Post by: KuroiKetsunoHana on October 03, 2012, 06:24:54 PM
Quote from: peestandingup on October 03, 2012, 06:22:27 PM
Fixed transit would do wonders.
i agree with that wholeheartedly, and i think it's true for pretty much the whole city.
Title: Re: Exposing Jacksonville's \
Post by: BackinJax05 on October 04, 2012, 04:23:11 PM
Thanx, Lake  ;D

A gentrified Phoenix would be treat! ;)
Title: Re: Exposing Jacksonville's \
Post by: KuroiKetsunoHana on October 04, 2012, 06:09:49 PM
BackinJac05, define gentrify, please.  because either it means something very different to you than to me, or you're a terrible human beïng.  possibly both, but definitely one ov the two.
Title: Re: Exposing Jacksonville's \
Post by: BackinJax05 on October 17, 2012, 06:06:07 PM
Quote from: KuroiKetsunoHana on October 04, 2012, 06:09:49 PM
BackinJac05, define gentrify, please.  because either it means something very different to you than to me, or you're a terrible human beïng.  possibly both, but definitely one ov the two.

Learn to spell, and maybe we can talk.  ;)
Title: Re: Exposing Jacksonville's \
Post by: Tacachale on October 17, 2012, 08:28:34 PM
Quote from: peestandingup on October 03, 2012, 06:22:27 PM
Lake is correct. Eastside is not nearly as bad as Springfield was back in the 80s. Plus, there's really not that many houses that are abandoned or look like they're ready to fall over/be demoed (something Spr is still struggling with today with a good chuck of their housing stock). Most of it looks to be quite livable if you're willing to accept it for what it is. Could it be better? Absolutely. But I def wouldn't give it a 0%.

But unfortunately John is right in saying that it could go either way. Things like this seem like they take forever here & are very flakey. If these neighborhoods were up north or out west somewhere, they'd be thriving. Most of it seems caused by the city's lack of vision & sitting on their hands.

Fixed transit would do wonders.

East Jacksonville in the 2010s (or 2020s) would have an easier go of revitalization than Springfield in the 1980s for a couple of reasons. First and foremost, because it's not the 1980s. Compared to the 1980s peak, drug-related crime, and in due course, violent crime in general, is down and continues to decrease. Second, so much of Springfield's revitalization has focused on the high end of the real estate. There's certainly nothing wrong with that, but Eastside structures wouldn't require nearly that level of investment; they're more like outer Riverside in that way. And third, in contrast to the 1980s, urbanism is established in Jacksonville. There are demonstrably more people with those interests now.

With a little momentum, I'm convinced this could be Jacksonville's next great urban neighborhood.
Title: Re: Exposing Jacksonville's \
Post by: BackinJax05 on October 18, 2012, 10:09:48 PM
^^ I agree. Everything is already in place in Phoenix.
Title: Re: Exposing Jacksonville's \
Post by: John P on October 19, 2012, 10:37:09 AM
Go for it. You can rent a room by the night there for $10.
Title: Re: Exposing Jacksonville's \
Post by: Tacachale on October 19, 2012, 11:07:09 AM
Or we could just whinge. That's productive.
Title: Re: Exposing Jacksonville's \
Post by: Roger904 on October 19, 2012, 11:20:04 AM
What's wrong with gentrification?
Title: Re: Exposing Jacksonville's \
Post by: Ocklawaha on October 19, 2012, 12:06:58 PM
Quote from: Roger904 on October 19, 2012, 11:20:04 AM
What's wrong with gentrification?

On the surface, nothing at all, but a bit deeper and the word (in some circles) has come to mean racial purification of a neighborhood. If that is the modern accepted definition then there is everything wrong with it.
Title: Re: Exposing Jacksonville's \
Post by: KuroiKetsunoHana on October 19, 2012, 03:26:24 PM
not just racial--rising property values often mean that the poor who've lived there for decades (sometimes their whole lives) are made uncomfortable and sometimes no longer able to afford to stay there--'reclaiming' a ghetto often just means pushing people who have very few choices around.
Title: Re: Exposing Jacksonville's \
Post by: peestandingup on October 19, 2012, 05:30:16 PM
Quote from: KuroiKetsunoHana on October 19, 2012, 03:26:24 PM
not just racial--rising property values often mean that the poor who've lived there for decades (sometimes their whole lives) are made uncomfortable and sometimes no longer able to afford to stay there--'reclaiming' a ghetto often just means pushing people who have very few choices around.

How are they made "uncomfortable" by making the neighborhood better/safer? And wouldn't the increase in property values benefit those who have lived there longest the most?? I know that property taxes would go up too, but not THAT much.

I understand the sentiment some would have about it. The fact that white flight took place & American cities sorta corralled all the poor into the inner cities, these people made the best of it for decades, and now all of a sudden that's reversing. I get that.

But there is often another side to it. I know plenty of people who have moved into cities that were going through transition who experienced so-called "reverse racism" (myself included in my old neighborhood in DC). I can't tell you how many times I was leered at in a local eatery (as to say, "what are YOU doing here?"), had some backhanded compliment said, or was simply called a name on the street. That last one didn't happen often, but it did.

Like I said, I get that & am more forgiving of it considering the past, but its still nasty & uncalled for. It's straight up racism. And no one's guilty of anything besides liking a neighborhood & wanting to live in it. So a lot of the blowback for gentrification (or whatever we're calling neighborhood improvement these days) is simply racially charged IMO, which is unfortunate.
Title: Re: Exposing Jacksonville's \
Post by: KuroiKetsunoHana on October 19, 2012, 05:40:07 PM
if it was all people who genuinely like the neighbourhood, that'd be one thing.  for some people it really seems to be some kind attempt to be edgy.  i've seen people who are clearly terrified ov the neighbourhood, but feel like they have to live here just to prove that they can--and ov course i'm hostile to that kind ov ridiculous posturing!  people want to move into my neighbourhood, change it to suit themselves, and they don't even like it!

as far as beïng made uncomfortable, 'safer' is subjective with the rather biased police response we have in this town, and you're damn right i'm not comfortable with people who make it very clear that they think i'm a lesser human beïng just because i'm poor.

there are a lot ov lovely people genuinely tryïng to improve things for everyöne(see:  preservation SOS), and i don't mean to disparage them at all.  but there are also a lot ov entitled-feeling little shits whose sole interest is bending a neighbourhood to their will (see:  SPAR, at least up until the last year or two).

(edited for clarity--i tend to ramble)
Title: Re: Exposing Jacksonville's \
Post by: peestandingup on October 19, 2012, 06:32:31 PM
Quote from: KuroiKetsunoHana on October 19, 2012, 05:40:07 PM
if it was all people who genuinely like the neighbourhood, that'd be one thing.  for some people it really seems to be some kind attempt to be edgy.  i've seen people who are clearly terrified ov the neighbourhood, but feel like they have to live here just to prove that they can--and ov course i'm hostile to that kind ov ridiculous posturing!  people want to move into my neighbourhood, change it to suit themselves, and they don't even like it!

as far as beïng made uncomfortable, 'safer' is subjective with the rather biased police response we have in this town, and you're damn right i'm not comfortable with people who make it very clear that they think i'm a lesser human beïng just because i'm poor.

there are a lot ov lovely people genuinely tryïng to improve things for everyöne(see:  preservation SOS), and i don't mean to disparage them at all.  but there are also a lot ov entitled-feeling little shits whose sole interest is bending a neighbourhood to their will (see:  SPAR, at least up until the last year or two).

(edited for clarity--i tend to ramble)

You bring up some good points & I agree. There are a lot of jackasses out there who do that for some reason. I think the bigger issue though is the chain reaction that it starts. Meaning there are a lot of people at first who do move into these neighborhoods because they like them. Sure, they would like to see improvements here & there, but who wouldn't?

But before you know it, corporate interests come along & really do a number on the place. I understand that some of that can be beneficial (like transit), but a lot of it isn't & ends up tearing apart what made the neighborhood cool in the first place (the truly local neighborhood vibe in an urban setting, no matter the makeup). That certainly happened with our old hood in DC. I haven't been back in a few years but my wife has. She said its a lot of chain stores, high end nightclubs, restaurants, etc. Ugh. Some of thats fine I guess & to be expected, but again, not if it takes so much away that it loses that local neighborhood vibe & brings the circus to town. That shit can take a hike.

So I think you & I (and most people who initially move in) are on the same page & fighting the same fight. It just sometimes gets skewed
Title: Re: Exposing Jacksonville's \
Post by: Tacachale on October 19, 2012, 09:59:51 PM
There are a couple of things to keep in mind about gentrification. First and foremost, the term implies that a higher social class (the "gentry") takes over a neighborhood. This doesn't always mean immediate displacement of the lower class, however frequently it means that things (real estate, rent, retail, etc) gets more expensive.

This can be good for landowners who see their property values rise. At the same time, however, raised property values can lead to other expenses (such as higher property taxes) that make it untenable for someone with lower income and/or wealth to keep up. Additionally, in many of these neighborhoods a lot of the residents are renting. The property owners may not live in the neighborhood or even the city; higher values can be great for them, because they can just raise the rent to cover it, but the renters may be priced out of their own neighborhood. Displacement is the most glaring downside to gentrification.

Another thing to keep in mind is that, gentrification isn't uniform. The groups interested in the urban environment are as diverse as America itself. There's no one way it's done. And it doesn't happen in a time vacuum. It's not as if the Eastside, or any neighborhood anywhere, has never experienced change in its history.

Third, there are a lot of positives of gentrification that are often overlooked. On top of money, it can also bring diversity and a swath of people who really care about their neighborhood. So there are positives and negatives associated with it. In the case of the Eastside, such a thing could be looked at as less of a "change" and more of a return to the face of the neighborhood 50 years ago.
Title: Re: Exposing Jacksonville's
Post by: thelakelander on November 11, 2014, 12:20:28 PM
Unfortunately, this house on Pheonix Avenue burned down today:

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/2097375579_9v9BC4T-M.jpg)

Quote2-alarm fire destroys home near Eastside

Firefighters were called to the 1900 block of Phoenix Avenue about 10:20 a.m. The roof collapsed at what was described as a hoarder's house, but there were no injuries.

Firefighters said the flames were tough to battle because of all the different materials inside that were burning.2-alarm-fire

The homeowner, Bob Smith, and his caretaker were able to get out safely.

(http://www.news4jax.com/image/view/-/29657370/medRes/2/-/w/400/-/eqlf8iz/-/2-alarm-fire.jpg)

http://www.news4jax.com/news/2alarm-fire-consumes-home-near-eastside/29656866