Quote"It's the only center of quality in this area," shopper Jenny Bondurant said. "Only place up to date, current and happening."
Full article here: http://www.news4jax.com/morning-show/Tour-groups-flocking-to-Town-Center/-/1875838/16814418/-/io2hkx/-/index.html (http://www.news4jax.com/morning-show/Tour-groups-flocking-to-Town-Center/-/1875838/16814418/-/io2hkx/-/index.html)
I am not into fashion, so I really don't see what the fuss is about. You can find most, if not all of these stores in Orlando, so I am not sure why tour groups are stopping here, but I guess that is good for Jax.
If you were specifically trying to come up with quotes to irritate the urban minded, you couldn't do any better than the ones offered here.
Where are the tour groups originating from? Are these local tours that are making SJTC a stop or are these groups originating in cities like Orlando and Altanta and coming to Jax to shop? I suspect they are tours that either originate locally or from smaller communities throughout the region. If the later, that's typical of a region's premier shopping destination.
Just remember this article in 25 years when the city fathers allow another mall to be built nearby and it drains off the business because its no longer "happening".
The SJTC haters are very tiresome. Every post concerning the SJTC, the ad nausem "I only went to the SJTC two times, and didn't like either time; I honestly can't understand what people see about it, it's a traffic nightmare!" Bring up your one obligatory friend from Chicago somewhere that didn't like the SJTC, like they are the freaking voice of humanity or something. Why does the SJTC irk the haters so much? Don't go there simple! Hell, you don't even have to talk about it, because I know where yall haters stand, yall can't stand the SJTC, I get it!! If there's something that I personally don't like, and it don't effect me, I don't talk about it, that sounds logical! So SJTC haters continue to say the same things over and over again if you wanna, but you will sound very annoying, tiresome, and negative. Rant over.
Quote from: I-10east on October 02, 2012, 10:04:54 AM
The SJTC haters are very tiresome. Every post concerning the SJTC, the ad nausem "I only went to the SJTC two times, and didn't like either time; I honestly can't understand what people see about it, it's a traffic nightmare!" Bring up your one obligatory friend from Chicago somewhere that didn't like the SJTC, like they are the freaking voice of humanity or something. Why does the SJTC irk the haters so much? Don't go there simple! Hell, you don't even have to talk about it, because I know where yall haters stand, yall can't stand the SJTC, I get it!! If there's something that I personally don't like, and it don't effect me, I don't talk about it, that sounds logical! So SJTC haters continue to say the same things over and over again if you wanna, but you will sound very annoying, tiresome, and negative. Rant over.
Really? This is exactly how the rest of this entire forum feels when you make the exact same complaints about downtown....
Hilariously bad article, but I guess that is expected from New4Jax. I particularly love the headline, "Shopping center becoming known for fashion around the nation". This is what marketing people do for a living. Pump sunshine and BS. No data. No facts. Just spin.
That said, I'm sure we do get quite a few visitors from places like Savannah, Tallahassee, Lake City, and Valdosta, who likely stay for a night. Shop at the TC, go to a movie at Tinseltown, and eat at nearby restaurants. Lets get real though. Its not a place that people from outside of a 2 hour radius are driving to. Especially with better options in Orlando, Atlanta, Miami, etc. But hey, if they are bringing money into the local economy, power to them. Just don't insult our intelligence with BS.
I suppose a lot of us are surprised that it's so popular. But what would a city be without options for everyone. Pretty neutral opinion on my part. "oh look, a mall." Meh.
News4Jax insulting everybody's intelligence, but I can guarantee you the story was not run without major input and editing from the Ben Carter team (perhaps even at the request of the Ben Carter team); every development firm wants or has a say in what story gets told. We certainly do the same thing (my firm made front page of NYT last week with a story I helped work on and careful quoting and massaging by our marketing team, PR firm, and managing/creative directors).
Quote from: CityLife on October 02, 2012, 10:17:45 AM
Hilariously bad article, but I guess that is expected from New4Jax. I particularly love the headline, "Shopping center becoming known for fashion around the nation".
You got the headline wrong. It actually says this:
Shooping center becoming known for fashion around nationWhich is even funnier.
I like the idea of a "shooping" center. I imagine people walking around singing the background part to "It's In His Kiss" incessantly.
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on October 02, 2012, 11:03:27 AM
I like the idea of a "shooping" center. I imagine people walking around singing the background part to "It's In His Kiss" incessantly.
Actually I was thinking the Salt & Pepa version.
"What you wanna do? What
you wanna do? I wanna SHOOP!"
Quote from: simms3 on October 02, 2012, 10:31:48 AM
News4Jax insulting everybody's intelligence, but I can guarantee you the story was not run without major input and editing from the Ben Carter team (perhaps even at the request of the Ben Carter team); every development firm wants or has a say in what story gets told. We certainly do the same thing (my firm made front page of NYT last week with a story I helped work on and careful quoting and massaging by our marketing team, PR firm, and managing/creative directors).
Yep. That's why I said I hate marketing. It definitely came from their team and they quite likely paid for it, though I doubt much. That is how stories like this come about.
It can actually be dangerous and damaging. I know of an instance where something like that was done (for money), and I'm pretty sure it has resulted in financial loss for some. I'm no lawyer, but I'm pretty sure the media entity would be in liable for pretending a paid advertisement was a factual "article".
It is dumb, but enjoy the sales tax revenues.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on October 02, 2012, 10:16:57 AM
Really? This is exactly how the rest of this entire forum feels when you make the exact same complaints about downtown....
Whatever dude, you and others can go on and continue to add your 'great feedback' by saying that you hate the SJTC over and over again, even on threads that just have a mere mention of it.
BTW, the downtown comparison is really dumb. If anything, it's usually other TU-esque doom and gloomers that 'complain' about DT, not me. I try to be even keeled and not act as if a nuclear bomb hit the core with every single DT issue. See ya on the next SJTC thread.
Quote from: CityLife on October 02, 2012, 11:08:24 AM
I'm pretty sure the media entity would be in liable for pretending a paid advertisement was a factual "article".
Liable to whom? Virtually everything that appears in the media is a paid advertisement for someone with control of the pursestrings.
Other than the gee-whiz boosterism of the prose ("Locals still feel as though they have a jewel in their backyard" is a howler, for sure), I fail to see how this article is any different from the more-or-less advertisements for local businesses that appear on the MJ main page.*
*Please note this is not a value judgment on or against Metro Jacksonville. I appreciate the way they give exposure to new, up-and-coming businesses.
To state the obvious here. JTC is what it is. It is a regional mall. It has a very large assortment of retailers that happen to only set up shop in dense metropolitan areas and I see no reason to hate it. The planning might be a bit off and the architecture a bit generic, but SJTC provides a valuable service to our city. The article is a fluff piece, but probably has a decent amount of truth to it.
Truth of the matter is that if any of us lived in Tallahassee, Valdosta, Savannah or the like, we would most likely eventually make an extra trip to SJTC to visit a store unavailable in a smaller market city. I still know people that travel to Orlando to go shopping at stores that Jacksonville doesn't have (wasn’t everyone just up in arms about IKEA?). Likewise, most mid-size cities have similar suburban style outdoor malls that serve the same exact purpose. I would love to see a concentration of high traffic retailers set up downtown, but it’s not going to happen anytime soon (if ever).
I'll take what we can get. Granted SJTC leaves much to be desired in terms of walkability, I find it to be a good place to shop. I like having the both small and big box stores in one central location (though I have to drive to get to some of the big box stores). I like having stores that Jacksonville never had before.
Given its regional draw, I would say SJTC is definitely great for our economy. It gives the small amount of N. FL visitors to visit stores that have good brand recognition. Please also remember that our City collects that extra 1% of sales tax on every sale plus our city share of the 6% FL sales tax. Even something as low as $10 mil in sales in extra sales to out-of-town tourists generates $100K for the city. I could easily imagine the actually extra sales numbers of SJTC being 10 or 20 times that amount. Coupled along with restaurant sales that benefit servers and extra hotel occupancy derived from tourists, I would say we should be rooting for more success at SJTC, not less.
The more destination shopping you can pack into that place the better. Success feeds success. More stores lead to more shoppers (both in and out of town). That translates to better sales which leads to yet more and better stores. I'll take the crappy stucco architecture, just bring in the masses that want to visit and spend money here. Everyone will benefit. I can't imagine the citizens of Orlando complaining about Millennia Mall this much. Let’s enjoy SJTC for what it is and what it does for our city. I think we can both build up our core as well as suburban shopping mall. It is not a winner take all event, the two can indeed coexist and thrive.
It excels in its vastness as well as its acres of inconvenient parking lots.
It is a shimmering light of mediocrity and poor planning.
Are you sure those tour busses aren't full of city planners/designers/architects on a field trip of "what not to do"?
Agree with Chipwich - there is not another area in Jacksonville that mimics an urban "main street" environment where one can stroll along shops and restaurants. My wife and I can have dinner and walk around window shopping for an hour or two.
I would rather our downtown contain a good mix of retail and restaurants, but it doesn't.
Out of town visitors - depending on where they're from - either really like the town center or are unimpressed (one friend from Greenville says "yeah we have that where I live, except we call it 'downtown' and people live and work there, too").
The parking complaints I don't get, unless it's opposition to the idea of giant sea-of-asphalt parking lots. I've never, ever had a problem finding a parking space. And yeah, lots of the roads inside the center are very poorly laid out, but not much worse than the confusing network of one-way streets in downtown Jax.
Anyway, it's working - it seems to be attracting a lot of people and their money - is there nothing that Downtown planners can learn from?
Quote from: RockStar on October 02, 2012, 12:43:16 PM
Are you sure those tour busses aren't full of city planners/designers/architects on a field trip of "what not to do"?
Typical Jacksonville mentality.
Even our successes are failures.
When the SuperBowl came to town, the newly-carpetted Avenues Mall was the main shopping center in the city, and Pottery Barn was considered high end retail in Jacksonville.
Less than 10 years later, in an empty tract of land, a massive regional shopping center has sprung up, doing incredible business and bringing names like Nordstrom, Tiffany, Louis Vutton, Black & White, Guess, Puma, Apple, Urban Outfitters, Brooks Brothers, Seasons 52, Brio, Cheesecake Factory, Suite, Whiskey River, Black Finn, and about five hundred other stores and restaurants into Jacksonville for the first time, and people still find a reason to be bitter about it.
I swear a lot of people have macros automatically programmed into their computer so that, every time the Town Center comes up, they can -- with a single key press -- spit out a message like "Can't wait till it's dead in 20 years!"
Very few of these retailers would be in Jacksonville right now if not for the Town Center (and certainly not downtown at this stage in the game). It's not hip and urban, but it's unquestionably the most vibrant place in the city right now, for better or worse. And if you give it a chance and are willing to overlook its excessive suburban evils, it's actually a pretty fun place to spend the day.
^^^+1,000
Quote from: KenFSU on October 02, 2012, 01:19:15 PM
It's not hip and urban, but it's unquestionably the most vibrant place in the city right now, for better or worse. And if you give it a chance and are willing to overlook its excessive suburban evils, it's actually a pretty fun place to spend the day.
Blasphemy!!!!!
What is everyone buying there? I still haven't bought anything there yet.
SJTC will *have to* be connected by rail to DT via Gate Parkway/Touchton/Belfort up Phillips someday...soon. While traffic overall in Jax is a joke, that is one corridor that can see substantial backups without effort. In 18 months add 2,000 new occupied apartment units, 250,000 SF new retail, ~300,000 SF new office give or take, and a few thousand more occupied homes, on the same road system.
SJTC has best in class "traditional" mall stores, but look to some of the high streets in larger cities for ideas of shopping/"today's" strong tenants who could potentially locate to hip urban districts in Jacksonville if the city were to provide the right environment, demographics included. Nashville, Charlotte, Austin, Richmond and a few other 3rd tier cities are seeing this happen right now (attracting to their best urban neighbs some of the same retailers one might find in Georgetown in DC, Newbury St in Boston, 5th/Pine in Seattle, South Beach, King St in Charleston, Rush St in Chicago, SoHo/Flatiron District in NYC, etc etc).
Quote from: Tacachale on October 02, 2012, 08:58:49 AM
If you were specifically trying to come up with quotes to irritate the urban minded, you couldn't do any better than the ones offered here.
Are you calling me a rabble-rouser? ;D Honestly I just picked the quote that irritated me most. So I guess I must be "urban Minded"
Quote from: KenFSU on October 02, 2012, 01:19:15 PM
in an empty tract of land, a massive regional shopping center has sprung up
That's my issue with the place. With all the half-empty, run-down developments spread out all over Duval County, was it really necessary to destroy yet another piece of irreplaceable nature?
^ in a "free" market country with private property rights, apparently so
Quote from: KenFSU on October 02, 2012, 01:19:15 PM
Quote from: RockStar on October 02, 2012, 12:43:16 PM
Are you sure those tour busses aren't full of city planners/designers/architects on a field trip of "what not to do"?
Typical Jacksonville mentality.
No that's sarcasm. It's also true. I don't care about the TC; I understand that it's a necessary evil, but my opinion is that, should you build one, do it right. And a "town center" with no central square, no trolley, separated by acres of asphalt so that it's impossible to access all of it without returning to one's car should be stop number one on the Tour of Bad Planning and Design. (And never mind its lack of protection from the elements, and congested parking lot layout.) I'd bore you with a thousand better examples, but I'm sure they're easy to find here on MJ.
Argue that you love the design, please. My only beef with the place is my wife loves to shop.
Quote from: finehoe on October 02, 2012, 03:00:47 PM
Quote from: KenFSU on October 02, 2012, 01:19:15 PM
in an empty tract of land, a massive regional shopping center has sprung up
That's my issue with the place. With all the half-empty, run-down developments spread out all over Duval County, was it really necessary to destroy yet another piece of irreplaceable nature?
It wasn't empty or natural at the time, it was a large farm. IMO the SJTC developer in particular can't be blamed for the city opening the area up to development decades before. And of course the general lameness of malls isn't specific to the SJTC. What they can be blamed for is the terrible planning.
If I go to STJC more than once* over the course of my visit to Jacksonville next weekend, I expect First Coast News to run the headline "Wacca Flocking to Town Center." LOL!
*No, I'm not planning to go there at all
Town Center in the name is a marketing gimmick. It's a friggin outdoor mall people. It has the same general layout, the outlying circulator (road), the same tenants, the same tenant buildouts as seen in indoor malls, the same sea of parking surrounding the mall, a power center next door that happens to be developed by same group, highway visibility and access, etc etc etc.
The name might as well be "The Avenues and Then Some, Rain or Shine".
We should get over expecting anything spectacular from the place, but it has become a hub on the SS and should eventually be connected to downtown by rail via the office parks and Phillips corridor in between.
I agree. SJTC is basically a mall without a roof. Nothing more, nothing less. Don't expect it to become anything more than that.
Quote from: Lunican on October 02, 2012, 01:54:11 PM
What is everyone buying there? I still haven't bought anything there yet.
Ipods, iphones, and cheese cake from The Cheesecake Factory. Banana-my personal favorite.
Personally, I like the SJTC. It has a nice feel to it, and I've been in malls all over the country. My problem with the SJTC is I wish it were DT on the southbank at the old generator site.
Most malls like SJTC happen to be in similar suburban locations. It's simply easier for a developer to assemble a cheap large track of property than doing the same in a highly urbanized area or waterfront location.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 02, 2012, 09:01:23 AM
Where are the tour groups originating from? Are these local tours that are making SJTC a stop or are these groups originating in cities like Orlando and Altanta and coming to Jax to shop? I suspect they are tours that either originate locally or from smaller communities throughout the region. If the later, that's typical of a region's premier shopping destination.
Actually your dead on target Ennis. When I was at Trailway's, we had a host of well paid executive types that scoured the countryside for the newest tour experience. A package created in Atlanta, or Orlando, might very well have a shopping trip at SJTC. Maybe they're selling it as a relaxing day of quality shopping, and it's no doubt tied with other area attractions. When you create a tour you already know the demographics of the target market, shoot for history, colonial times, pre-colonial, pre-columbian, all the way through the War of Yankee Aggression, and Jacksonville stands out as a perfect destination. You've got a 5 day itinerary to fill and not all of it can be walking through Fort Caroline. Yeah, might hate to admit it but SJTC is the perfect, sparkling tour stop. I say bring on those Prevost's, MCI'S, Eagles, Van Hool's, M.A.N.'S, Setra's, Volvo's and any spare old school buses you have laying around, "Keep Jacksonville green - BRING MONEY."
Quote from: thelakelander on October 02, 2012, 09:47:24 PM
I agree. SJTC is basically a mall without a roof. Nothing more, nothing less. Don't expect it to become anything more than that.
Its actually worse because indoor malls are at least navigable on foot. You park, go in, and don't see your car again until you're leaving. And you're not dodging other cars the whole time while you're shopping either.
SJTC is like someone ripped off the roof of a mall, picked up everything & scattered all the stores/restaurants across a giant plot of land, letting everything fall wherever. Injecting parking & roads everywhere you look.
It wouldn't be that bad if they had some kind of transit (like this outdoor mall in Glendale CA). Would it have killed the developers to lay a simple track & buy some old vintage streetcar for cheap??
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3208/2685984424_a1b4ccd13d.jpg)
^It's actually a hybrid of a lifestyle center (fancy name for the outdoor malls these days) and a power center (a shopping center full of big box stores). You can navigate the lifestyle component very easily. The power center is like the rest in Jax and everywhere else. You can walk on the sidewalk running along side the big boxes or you can risk your life cutting across acres of asphalt. Locally, Gateway Mall is your 1960s version of this. Regency is similar as well except the power centers happen to be strip malls to the north and south of it, on the other side of busy highways.
Also, why would the developer want to lay streetcar tracks? They are perfectly fine with people driving between the development's components if they want to and already making a killing at what has been created. There's no financial incentive for them operating their own fixed transit service.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 03, 2012, 06:48:02 AM
^It's actually a hybrid of a lifestyle center (fancy name for the outdoor malls these days) and a power center (a shopping center full of big box stores). You can navigate the lifestyle component very easily. The power center is like the rest in Jax and everywhere else. You can walk on the sidewalk running along side the big boxes or you can risk your life cutting across acres of asphalt. Locally, Gateway Mall is your 1960s version of this. Regency is similar as well except the power centers happen to be strip malls to the north and south of it, on the other side of busy highways.
Also, why would the developer want to lay streetcar tracks? They are perfectly fine with people driving between the development's components if they want to and already making a killing at what has been created. There's no financial incentive for them operating their own fixed transit service.
Very true. But its still all part of the "town center" & same shopping destination in general. The fact is, if you're not sticking along the "main drag", you can't navigate it on foot. For one, its too spread out. And two, its too dangerous & just not set up for that. A small transit system would alleviate all of that. Shoppers would be more likely to browse the entire area (and spend more money), instead of just small pockets at a time, then driving around fighting for spaces in front of the door.
The developers (esp here) certainly never even considered doing anything different as far as transit. And you're right, why would they? It would just cost them extra. And everyone loves their cars & will be brining them in anyway, right?? But thats the problem here. No oversight & no guidelines. Developers getting free reign to do whatever they want.
BUT, it seems popular, so maybe thats what people want? I on the other hand can't stand going over there for those exact reasons. Its nerve racking & just not enjoyable, for me anyway.
Quote from: peestandingup on October 03, 2012, 07:16:55 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on October 03, 2012, 06:48:02 AM
^It's actually a hybrid of a lifestyle center (fancy name for the outdoor malls these days) and a power center (a shopping center full of big box stores). You can navigate the lifestyle component very easily. The power center is like the rest in Jax and everywhere else. You can walk on the sidewalk running along side the big boxes or you can risk your life cutting across acres of asphalt. Locally, Gateway Mall is your 1960s version of this. Regency is similar as well except the power centers happen to be strip malls to the north and south of it, on the other side of busy highways.
Also, why would the developer want to lay streetcar tracks? They are perfectly fine with people driving between the development's components if they want to and already making a killing at what has been created. There's no financial incentive for them operating their own fixed transit service.
Very true. But its still all part of the "town center" & same shopping destination in general. The fact is, if you're not sticking along the "main drag", you can't navigate it on foot. For one, its too spread out. And two, its too dangerous & just not set up for that.
This is the situation with nearly every mall and strip mall in Jacksonville and Florida. Get off the main path (if there is one) and you're screwed because our policies push toward accommodating cars over of people. It's one of the reasons we have the highest pedestrian death rates in the nation.
QuoteA small transit system would alleviate all of that. Shoppers would be more likely to browse the entire area (and spend more money), instead of just small pockets at a time, then driving around fighting for spaces in front of the door.
This is something that should come at a public level and should not be internal and isolated to specific developments. This is why its important to integrate supportive land use and transportation policies on a city wide level. When you don't you get lots of isolated developments with poor connectivity for anything other than cars.
QuoteThe developers (esp here) certainly never even considered doing anything different as far as transit. And you're right, why would they? It would just cost them extra. And everyone loves their cars & will be brining them in anyway, right?? But thats the problem here. No oversight & no guidelines. Developers getting free reign to do whatever they want.
BUT, it seems popular, so maybe thats what people want? I on the other hand can't stand going over there for those exact reasons. Its nerve racking & just not enjoyable, for me anyway.
I can't even blame Ben Carter for the layout of the SJTC. That could have been pushed a certain way at the public level if we valued those types of multimodal friendly and human scale policies. SJTC is just a result of the system we have in place.
Seven years later, we are still having the same conversations about the SJTC's layout *currently pulling my hair out*
I know that everyone is gonna disagree with me, but I don't think it's a troublesome journey navigating around the actual SJTC. Too me, what's more problematic is the layout of the Markets at St Johns (I believe that's what it's called) where Libretto's, Suite etc are at. I believe that it's only one way in and out of there (to Gate).
SJTC doesn't really bother me because I don't view it as a neighborhood or competition with an environment like downtown and the surrounding neighborhoods. Despite the name, its simply a suburban regional mall designed according to what our land use policies promote. Nothing more, nothing less. If we don't like the result, we need to modify the regulations in the zoning code.
I have no idea how one would walk out of the Markets at SJTC to Gate. Whatever route you choose, you'll be crossing multiple curb cuts with turning automobiles and nothing to protect you from the natural elements along your trip.
My only reason for going there is Costco and maybe when Nordstrom opens. It is "anywhere" USA. The best way to get around is driving behind the mall where the loading docks are.
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/FLORIDA%20Jacksonville/ScreenShot2012-10-03at91244AM.png)
So you walk out and onto the striped sidewalk from right to left in this photo and you, um, walk into a tree!
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/FLORIDA%20Jacksonville/ScreenShot2012-10-03at91642AM.png)
Now you try walking from the stores on the left to the stores on the right but you just can't find the way.
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/FLORIDA%20Jacksonville/ScreenShot2012-10-03at91751AM.png)
If you left the car in the dead center of this photo, God be with you trying to get to it.
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/FLORIDA%20Jacksonville/ScreenShot2012-10-03at91852AM.png)
If your still alive by this time, you might try the walk between Jared's and anything to the right, your so screwed.
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/FLORIDA%20Jacksonville/ScreenShot2012-10-03at92156AM.png)
This is one of my favorites, you walk out of Ballard Designed and spot your JTA ride coming up the drive. Run!
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/FLORIDA%20Jacksonville/ScreenShot2012-10-03at91955AM.png)
Walking from the main mall to the parking on the right, exit the upper drive and you have a sidewalk, exit the lower and your dead.
THAT'S WHAT IS WRONG, with the way we allowed this monstrosity to be built. Frankly, I enjoy a nice day of shopping or even a mall, but for my dollar, I'd rather go to The Avenues. Is it really too much to ask to require sidewalks on BOTH sides of all mall streets or between every two rows of parked cars?
EXCELLENT JOB OCK!!!! +10,000,000,000
What I would love to do is overlay the photo with the massive sea of parking on top of various areas of the urban core: DT, Avondale, Park & King, 5 Points, San Marco.... Etc. From one side to the other that has to be at least 5 blocks.
You can make the exact same comparison with the Avenues Mall. I'm not sure if either Southside Blvd or Philips Hwy even have sidewalks. I know for a fact that there aren't any in the massive parking lot surrounding it.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 03, 2012, 10:35:23 AM
You can make the exact same comparison with the Avenues Mall. I'm not sure if either Southside Blvd or Philips Hwy even have sidewalks. I know for a fact that there aren't any in the massive parking lot surrounding it.
They don't. There's not even a crosswalk it would seem. http://goo.gl/maps/0i670
So attempting a walk from the mall to the "Avenues Walk" (which is freakin hilarious they'd call it that) over to Latitude 30, hhgregg, etc would certainly result in death.
Where do they pile the bodies of all these dead pedestrians? :D
I've been out there a few times and seen folks from these groups. Look like cruise passengers, because I'm pretty sure two of them were carrying big carnival bags. Whatever it is, most of the people getting onto the buses had more stuff than they could easily carry, so people are dropping a bunch of money out there. Good for them. If all they remember about Jacksonville was that it had a great place to shop, that's better than nothing. I'm too old, too fat and too broke to worry about shopping out there but I'm happy folks are helping to keep stores open and people employed.
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on October 03, 2012, 11:54:45 AM
Where do they pile the bodies of all these dead pedestrians? :D
use them to power the buses.