QuoteIt was his first public appearance after being elected mayor last year, and Alvin Brown dedicated it to explaining to downtown business owners how he was going to transform the area.
“The real question is, how do you give people a reason to believe again in downtown?†Brown said during that May 2011 speech.
Full article: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2012-10-01/story/jacksonvilles-new-downtown-agency-faces-plenty-hurdles
One sure way to kill the implementation of any good plan is to get so lost in the details that you forget why you were doing it in the first place.
The other is to try to be all things to all people.
I look forward to seeing how the DIA addresses these issues.
It seems like a good group people, in whom I have high hopes.
I wouldn't say I'm skeptical but I don't have high hopes either. No matter how an entity is set up legally, at the end of the day, it still boils down to how it is staffed and what direction that staff is sent in. This could end up being a good thing for downtown or it could end up implementing misplaced policies like the old DDA and previous redevelopment efforts. Right off the bat, you can count me in the group of downtown advocates who don't necessarily believe selling the idea of the importance of downtown to the entire city should be a high priority at the moment. The best sales and marketing job anyone can do is to create an attractive atmosphere. You don't necessarily have to spend lots of money at the public level to pull this concept off. In fact, stepping back and easing up on some existing regulation to allow a more creative and innovative culture to develop is probably a good path to consider.
Also, I don't view increasing the residential population to anything significant is a short term strategy (1-3 years). Even to get the population up to 5,000 could take a decade (unless you really get aggressive with incentives), simply due to the market, permitting and construction process. Dealing with the city or incentives aside, it could easily take two to three years for a single feasible project with only 100 units to become reality.
While finding ways to grow downtown's immediate population should be a priority, it shouldn't come at the expense of utilizing multimodal mobility options to better tie downtown together with surrounding urban core neighborhoods to take advantage of the thousands of residents already living in the general area.
I have a lot of hope for Downtown because we're seeing noticeable progress right now in spite of everything. There's an energy and excitement down there through sheer force of will. As long as this shop doesn't actively make things worse I expect the progress will continue.
Today's national trends for urban living will pull people in the general direction of downtown and the surrounding urban core areas. In that manner, the urban core has a bright future. It's up to us to either make it boom or stymie it. Over the last decade, we stymied that market rate growth and it shifted to Riverside.
With Riverside now engulfed in internal battles on accepting market rate urban growth, it will be interesting to see how the natural market responds. Will the DIA be able to foster more growth in the Northbank or will some other urban neighborhood become the apple of the market's eye?
Lake, I tend to agree with the slow trend toward urban growth nationally, as there seem to be a couple of reasons for it, one being the cost of fuel, which might cause some city core workers to live in the core. The other is that people might be bored of the same malls everywhere. Ultimately, people like to experience something different and interesting.
In the entire northeast Florida area, there is only one city core, which alone gives the potential for unique qualities not available elsewhere. The architecture and ambience is one asset hard to beat in the suburbs. And we have in the core a colorful and unique lot of homeless, which seems to be an attraction to some, especially the individuals who are obviously nuts, thereby offering a zoo quality. Whereas our traditional zoo exhibits animal animals, the city core exhibits human animals, both types being quite interesting to view.
One of the best things anyone can do for the city core development is to provide as much “freedom†as is possible for all involved in vibrancy efforts. Another thing to do would be to “prepare the way†by initiating appropriate infrastructures, and to facilitate the environment for anybody who might entertain the idea of moving into the core, either as a resident or as a business.
Any loss of freedom to those attempting to “do†something positive in the core is a consequence of any entity in the environment which can control the city council by way of embedding the council with its members. This "planting" can result in a condition wherein the overall good of the city, and especially the city core, is not being fairly represented by the council, but is influenced by the entity which planted and controls too many council members.
We might think of the city core as being a garden, having a soil, the quality of which must be prepared to allow good growth. And as with any garden, it must be seeded and weeded. The real power and action comes from the individuals who attempt to do something in the core, the investors, workers, residents, business people. They are the garden's plants, which will grow healthy and strong by way of their own natural abilities and tendencies if given lots of freedom and minimal assistance.
Good points Lake - I agree with them all. Doubling the DT population will require adding 2,500+ more units. Doing so in under 5 years for a city the size of Jacksonville and in the same spot economically as Jacksonville would be a task for the record books.
Also did anyone catch the 10% of DT workers = 5,000 bit? The article implies 50,000 employees downtown. How does MetroJacksonville feel about that number? LoL
Why can't we just stick with the goals already outlined in the attached and let the CID run the show?
http://downtownjacksonville.org/Libraries/PDF_Libraries/Downtown_Action_Plan_2007_002.sflb.ashx
Lord knows the people running DVI and its various task forces are some of the brightest in town, with plenty from other cities or still residing in other cities. Why the hell aren't we getting anywhere? Is it DVI? Is it plain and simple The City? My CID has literally transformed my neighborhood over the past 2 decades in a more than obvious way. The City backed off all responsibility of even the simplest things like road maintenance and nearly every positive thing being done has been the result of the privately run CID. In fact I think all 7 CIDs in my metro have been very effective over the last 5-10 years.
http://downtownjacksonville.org/Libraries/PDF_Libraries/Turning_the_Corner_White_Paper.sflb.ashx
Again, how is this so stinkin' difficult? There are more ingredients for a spectacular downtown in Jax than any other city in the SE. If Raleigh freakin NC can become desirable and livable from an urban standpoint, then Jax should be like Boston by now. Charlotte the same. Atlanta the same. None of these cities has waterfront; all are inland with no grid system, horrible air quality and wretched traffic. WTF, downtown Jax should be making a killing. When was the last purple level alert air condition, non-breezy day in Jax where all residents were ordered to stay inside and limit AC? Can't remember? Now with that beautiful air, mild climate (except for summer), position on the coast, a river runs through it, beach access, affordable housing, low traffic, grid system, why the hell isn't there a thriving city center connecting all the dots?
I don't believe a duplicative "investment authority" will get us there, but to Lake's point perhaps if the city just backed off and allowed the CID with all of its creative and diverse minds and perhaps a neighborhood planning unit to run the show, more things could get done?
QuoteAlso did anyone catch the 10% of DT workers = 5,000 bit? The article implies 50,000 employees downtown. How does MetroJacksonville feel about that number? LoL
It's voodoo math. Over the years, we've expanded the borders of what the city calls downtown. You get 50,000 by adding the Southbank, Northbank and Brooklyn (Riverside Avenue). In reality, the traditional CBD (Northbank) is probably closer to the 20,000 range.
I do not get a warm and fuzzy feeling from that article. For instance, getting people from The Players Downtown has been done before. Pretty sure they even went all out for it a few years back. Its not a bad idea, but if that and getting better taxi service are some of the Mayors big Downtown ideas, then god save Jacksonville. Hopefully, it was just a poorly written article that didn't properly articulate the Mayor's vision.
Ultimately, the success of the new agency and Downtown will rest on the staff of the new DIA. If its the same JEDC cronies and politically connected people, we will get much of the same. However, if they can hire a dynamic ED (ideally from outside of Jacksonville), and staff it with some bright local minds (which we have)....we may see some great things for DT.
And what is with the author writing, "only 2,400 live in the urban core"? The urban core is either 2 things...The Urban Core CPAC district or the proverbial "Urban Core", which is Jacksonville's urban neighborhoods and an area with a population far greater than 2,400. Brown never said it was a goal to get to 5k, just that it is typically a benchmark. I think if the downtown momentum keeps going and the new DIA has some teeth, it isn't unrealistic to think that the dial can start moving closer to that 5,000 figure.
I think demand is starting to tilt pretty heavily for residential DT. Imagine how much higher demand will be if Latitude 30 opens, if more business relocation's happen, if Intuition ever moves, if more bars and restaurants open in the "entertainment district", and so on. We could potentially see a residential renaissance DT.
The 2,400 most likely applied to the downtown as defined by the JEDC. Jacksonville's urban core's current population is slightly above 100,000. In regards to downtown Jacksonville as defined by the JEDC to get to 5,000, we'd need to double the population and number of available units. You can have the demand (which I believe decent demand is already there) but it still takes time to make such a significant addition become reality. I really see this as something that should be viewed in a 5-10 year window verses something short term (1-4 years). The perfect solution would be to strengthen connectivity between downtown and the surrounding 100,000 residents (1-4 years) via transit, pedestrian, bike enhancements while pushing for an increase in downtown residential units, with the knowledge that you can't snap your fingers and immediately 2,500 more units come online.
This way, you get your useable downtown population up immediately by utilizing residents already in place while also promoting market rate infill in downtown and long those transit corridors in general. This is basically what cities like Charlotte, Portland, Houston, St. Louis, Denver and San Diego have been highly successful at. Sorry, but taxis to the TPC aren't going to be the short and long term economic stimulus needed for DT and the surrounding area.
With that in mind, the Mayor's Office and DIA shouldn't underestimate the potential of taking advantage of the 100,000 residents already residing a mile or two outside of downtown. That population's characteristics are about as close to the population attracted to urbanism as possible. Utilize them to naturally grow overall market feasibility.
Agreed Lake. The connectivity stuff should have been done yesterday. I wasn't saying we can hit the 5,000 figure, just that we can start to push the dial closer with a concerted effort.
The thing about residential these days is that there is a lot of cash sitting around making minimal returns in money markets, CD's, and bonds. There are also a lot of people who were burned by the stock market and are hesitant to invest again. Even though people also got burned by the real estate crash, savvy investors know that this is a great time to invest in rental real estate. The state of our economy will limit home ownership in the future, which will make rentals an even greater asset. This is why investors are snapping up rental properties left and right these days (and because of great prices and low financing).
With a little vision from the city and some continued momentum, it would be very easy to get an infusion of investors and get the residential market going downtown . You may be right that it is more of a long term goal, than short...but I also think it could be intermediate (3-5) years if the city/DIA can properly make a market.
To increase the population by 2,500 in 3-5 years, you'd probably need the majority of units to support that number already permitted and under construction within 12-24 months. Just the construction period of one decent sized project could easily consume 18-24 months alone. Something like the Ambassador or Laura Trio could be longer. Just look at the Nordstrom project at SJTC. They've already announced they're coming to a site that's approved for what they want to do and their doors still won't open to 2014.
Even under the greatest conditions and most aggressive incentive/tax abatement concepts, I don't see DT Jax converting to pre-recession DT Miami/Las Vegas condo growth that quick. That's not a knock on potential, that's just acknowledgement of the time period needed for due diligence, financing, marketing, design, city approvals/permitting, incentives, construction, marketing, etc.
I say this to not get people's hopes up too high. Realistically speaking, having 400-500 new units completed and move-in ready over the next 3 years would be impressive from where things stand now.
Lake, isn't the purpose of the new DIA to streamline DT development and get things through permitting quickly? If so, I think the turn around time on projects may be quicker than normal, especially if the developer has any urgency. I'm also talking about low to mid rise residential on the fringes of DT. Stuff that could be built relatively quickly. You saw some of that stuff in the Gaines Corridor in Tally last week right? They put it up in a shockingly quick time frame. I'd guess somewhere between 6-12 months on the smaller projects and 9-15 on the mid sized ones.
You are probably right in curbing my enthusiasm, but I don't think its inconceivable to at least have stuff approved and under construction in that 3-5 year period. But again that's contingent on the city making the market...and well....maybe we shouldn't get our hopes up.
Streamlining permits is one thing. Getting a project into reality is another. Most of the stuff I saw on Gaines was still under construction. There were a couple of smaller projects that had been completed but they appeared to be projects with 50 or less units. Housing 2,500 within 3 to 5 years is a different scale. However, I'm pretty confident even the smallest of projects on the Gaines Street corridor took at least a year or more from initial planning of concept to students moving into completed units. Quite honestly, if the DIA got to work today, it could still be months to a year before its organized to the point its ready to implement any type of policy or move in any particular path.
Regarding the timeline to complete new residential housing, the real issue is not so much the construction/permitting or even the design time, its the time that must be invested by the developer into identifying viable property, running the proforma, securing funding, negotiating deals for grants / subsidies or other incentives, etc. We've all watched as multiple developers have tried to achieve this with the Laura Trio. It's taken years and so far nothing has been acheived.
If you were to renovate a building such as the Ambassador Hotel, the timeline to design/permit/build that project would be in the range of 18-20 months.
I agree that the goal of reaching at least 5,000 units downtown is incredibly important and must be prioritized but that it will likely take 5-10 years to reach that goal. I lived in Cleveland in the 90's and saw first hand that when they reached this critical mass of residents downtown (roughly 5,000), the other businesses such as restaurants, grocery/deli, dry cleaners, bars, etc. just made a lot more sense to the business owners. They had a customer base that could make their businesses viable and they didn't need to be incentivised anymore.
BTW, most of those new residential units in Cleveland were in renovated historic buildings or urban infill similar to what can be done in Jax.
In terms of timeline, and reducing it, it took 16 months just to create the DIA. And by 'create', that is only approval of enabling legislation and appointment of board members. There is still no budget or staff.
Quote from: vicupstate on October 02, 2012, 05:21:49 PM
In terms of timeline, and reducing it, it took 16 months just to create the DIA. And by 'create', that is only approval of enabling legislation and appointment of board members. There is still no budget or staff.
So sad, so true. What *happened* to this town?? It just seems to have ground to a halt, from the busy days of the Delaney years to the current morass that passes for "government".
I voted for Alvin Brown. He seemed like the kind of "new blood" that I thought the city needed post-Peyton, and I'd heard good things about him. But I'm starting to think that Downtown Alvin Brown was a much better mayoral candidate than mayor. I've seen him at various events a number of times since the election, and in every single case he looks freaked-out. Not like "afraid of a nut with a cream pie" freaked out, more of a "people are asking me questions that I have absolutely no idea how to answer" freaked out. I got scammed into voting for "Chauncey Gardner", but I won't do it again. I'm voting the straight Somebody Else Party ticket next time. But who? Who is likely to run against him? Clearly some republican, but what about a democrat, or independent? Who, on the Jax political horizon, would make a great mayor?
Did anyone listen to First Coast Connect yesterday and Bill Bishop was the guest? A real estate broker calls in and has customers that want to buy city property.
My first reaction was Intuition Ale and the Shipyards property. Instead of being greeted with the welcome mat they are greeted with the door being closed.
Now the Hayden Burns library and a letter of intent pending on city incentives. Enough taxpayer dollars and the door will be opened.
And so now this Authority that will oversee the picking of winner and losers. originally and still may be a primary funding source will be the parking revenue over this boundary. A huge Benny moving forward. 2012-202