Avenue's Walk Update
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-3572-hhgregg.jpg)
Jacksonville's newest lifestyle center is now under construction and tenants are now starting to roll in.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/708
Very nice! I like it 8)!
There is already an HH Gregg under construction at Regency Commons. So this would be the secong HH Gregg in Jacksonville.
Nice catch, fsujax.
OMG, It's been years since I've seen an HH Gregg. I can't tell by the pictures, is the parking behind the main entrances, with the main entraces facing inward to the pedestrian walk area, or just the opposite...do pedestrians enter into a psuedo-front entrance?
Another non-downtown development. They could have put all of these establishments into existing downtown buildings. Jacksonville's land is so cheap that it is more profitable to continue the sprawl, while leaving the downtown empty. That is the problem with Jacksonville. Its land is too cheap. That is why sprawl occurs.
Everyone I talk to wants a downtown with life. There are enough strip malls already. Nobody wants another suburban mall. Nobody. Except outside developers.
I doubt confusing one way streets and no parking has nothing to do with the descision. I do not live downtown, dont even live in Duval county, live up in nassau. But I love downtown and I think jacksonville is a great city, thats why i visit this site. I love going downtown, and go into the city a lot, but i still have a hard time trying to find a place to park, sometimes I wil actually drive to kings street garage and ride the skyway. I find intresting why people seem to have a chip on their sholder about other developments around town, being an outsider i would not want to go downtown to shop at a forever 21 or any other suburban mall store. i want to go downtown to eat and shop with places with culture and things you cant find in any suburb in america, something that sets us apart, like the Stockyards in Ft. Worth, and art districts in denver.
Quote from: second_pancake on February 07, 2008, 08:23:26 AM
OMG, It's been years since I've seen an HH Gregg. I can't tell by the pictures, is the parking behind the main entrances, with the main entraces facing inward to the pedestrian walk area, or just the opposite...do pedestrians enter into a psuedo-front entrance?
The stores face a "walkable" pedestrian area surrounding a narrow drive with parallel parking. Kind of like a fake Main Street theme, similar to SJTC phase II.
Quote from: adamh0903 on February 07, 2008, 09:03:13 AMi want to go downtown to eat and shop with places with culture and things you cant find in any suburb in america, something that sets us apart, like the Stockyards in Ft. Worth, and art districts in denver.
That would be definately nice if we could establish an unique atmosphere, such as what exists in Ft. Worth or Denver, with our downtown.
I work right around this area and its amazing the extent that they've gone to bridge the rail line just to get into this place. It is a bummer that more dollars that could have gone into downtown didn't but this area is already bustling (in that crappy suburban way) and it won't stop until they've paved every last square foot. This kind of project was predicated by homebuilding in the area years ago.
As far as looking at this thing in a vacuum, can anyone dispute that the "town center" branding strategy is a developer's new best friend? A town actually consists of places people live AND shops - the closest thing here are 350 units of multi-family just SE of the belt road (i.e. race track).
...the PDF shows more detail: http://www.kimcorealty.com/PDF/siteplan.asp?PropertyID=1189&PropertyID2=SFLJ1189 (http://www.kimcorealty.com/PDF/siteplan.asp?PropertyID=1189&PropertyID2=SFLJ1189)
If developers really gave a crap about making a town center, they'd build offices and residences above the main street retail and try to make a community in true mixed-use fashion. Instead, this is just an inside-out mall that you and everyone else still has to drive to, park, shop, and leave to your stucco enclave when the security guards shuffle you along at about 10:30.
They did improve upon Town Center's weirdly terminated main street by carrying it through most of the shops. At TC there's that weird sea-o-parking area at the one end that always puzzled me. Interesting that you'd basically have to drive from one of the central restaurants to Wal Mart if you were picking something up on the way out. Walking it would certainly be out of the question.
Rail stop? ...they can't even get the drive-in parts right!
Quote from: hank on February 07, 2008, 09:38:56 AMIf developers really gave a crap about making a town center, they'd build offices and residences above the main street retail and try to make a community in true mixed-use fashion. Instead, this is just an inside-out mall that you and everyone else still has to drive to, park, shop, and leave to your stucco enclave when the security guards shuffle you along at about 10:30.
The developer's original vision for this center had offices and residences above the retail shops and parking garages, instead of surface lots. However, that went up in flames when the residential condo market dried up. From the developer's standpoint, this means the entire project is then unfeasible. Since its being paid with by private dollars with the intent to turn a profit and not sit on dirt, they changed the plan by taking the dying residential portion away, allowing the retail center to move forward. Here are two of the past site plans from older threads.
2005 plan
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/urbanjax7816/AvenuesWalk.jpg)
2006 plan
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/urbanjax7816/AvenuesWalk-steplan.jpg)
Thanks lake. what about the multi-family units on the current scheme - they could have stayed in the center? ...Or is that a different development?
thank goodness for Brooklyn Park. I think they will get that one right. Even though they scaled back the residential, they are building rental units first and leaving room for for sale units later. If it was another project like this one, it would be horrible.
hey, nj to jax,
where in nj did u move from?
They could have built this project on the now-dead courthouse moonscape downtown... Instead, arent they pushing forward with the contingency plans for the site?
The John Peyton Memorial Dirt Race Track?
Since this is the south, I guess the city may consider moving the Pecan Park flea market to that site? The finest in downtown shopping.
Quote from: avonjax on February 07, 2008, 12:28:56 PM
thank goodness for Brooklyn Park. I think they will get that one right. Even though they scaled back the residential, they are building rental units first and leaving room for for sale units later. If it was another project like this one, it would be horrible.
Depending on the construction, it still may be possible to add residential units on top of the existing retail structures. If that isn't an option, at least the parking lot layout may be able to support separate residential structures on top of garages and more retail. Both this development and the SJTC could add in some residential density. This one could truely benefit from a transit station and make the addition of residential more enticing.
I wouldn't want something like this taking up downtown. I agree with ADAMH. There's no place for a suburban sprawl downtown. It wouldn't add anything that you can't get in suburbia.
Downtown's gotta have some charm and excitement to draw people in. I'm still waiting, impatiently, with the rest of you... :-\
Avenue's Walk? Oh my goodness, extend the BRT another few miles down or OVER the FEC and Bingo! Instant transit oriented development. Another star in JTA's rusting crown!
As for the moonscape, haven't any of these developers ever thought of going to the historical record and creating a couple of blocks of Jacksonville circa 1910? Balcony's, trolley's (WITH TRACKS), swinging doors, shutters, turrets, stained glass, clock towers, bells, brick,... Images of Bourbon Street? Fisherman's Wharf? I'm sorry when I get carried away with our history, but Keystone Heights, Fernandina Beach, and Cedar Key are WAY AHEAD OF US.
Any Developers out there want to set this thing apart? Want to talk about an IN-MALL trolley system, I can show you several examples, and put you in touch to make your development one-of-a-kind in Florida... Send me a PM.
Ocklawaha
Quote from: Ocklawaha on February 07, 2008, 09:14:14 PM
Avenue's Walk? Oh my goodness, extend the BRT another few miles down or OVER the FEC and Bingo! Instant transit oriented development. Another star in JTA's rusting crown!
As for the moonscape, haven't any of these developers ever thought of going to the historical record and creating a couple of blocks of Jacksonville circa 1910? Balcony's, trolley's (WITH TRACKS), swinging doors, shutters, turrets, stained glass, clock towers, bells, brick,... Images of Bourbon Street? Fisherman's Wharf? I'm sorry when I get carried away with our history, but Keystone Heights, Fernandina Beach, and Cedar Key are WAY AHEAD OF US.
Any Developers out there want to set this thing apart? Want to talk about an IN-MALL trolley system, I can show you several examples, and put you in touch to make your development one-of-a-kind in Florida... Send me a PM.
Ocklawaha
I'm with ya Ock. It makes me both sick and saddened to see the types of buildings that we once had versus what has replaced them.
Btw, did you see the new shopping complex that went up along Sadler in Fernandina? Yes, they are WAY ahead of us in so many ways. They very tastefully pulled off the FL stucco crap. The lines of the buildings and the layout is perfect for its location. They did a great job building without encroaching on any other surroundings, including additional land space. And another recent (within the last 10 years) example of how they preserve their history is the development, Amelia Park. It was a planned new urbanism development complete with row-houses, alleyway parking (parking behind houses down alleys instead of driveways and garages in front of every house), central parks, and businesses (actual well-paying businesses where someone could work and afford a home in the community) within walking distance of the homes. All of the houses are built in the style of the historic homes on the island, victorian, frame-vernacular, 20's arts-n-crafts, greek revival...you name it. Where in Jacksonville do we have something like this? Funny how a little island no more than 7 miles long and 5 miles wide can get it right and a place as big as Jacksonville makes the same damned mistakes over and over again.
I haven't been up to Fernandina in a few years. I'm going to have to take a trip up there one of these weekends.
It is well worth the trip Lake.
My old house was on south 6th and Cedar. The house directly behind it is for sale listed at over a million ::) I had a view of the Fairbanks from my bathroom window. There's a run-down Scandinavian looking cottage just behind a little house on the corner...on the west side of the road that I've always wanted to own. It's a family-owned property and I've never seen anyone living it or have it listed for sale. It's freakin adorable. I love that place and when I moved back to jax I was hoping to duplicate the lifestyle I had there by living in Avondale/Riverside.
From the renderings it appears that Brookyln Park's retail will not resemble a strip mall...
Am I wrong?
"Another non-downtown development. They could have put all of these establishments into existing downtown buildings. Jacksonville's land is so cheap that it is more profitable to continue the sprawl, while leaving the downtown empty. That is the problem with Jacksonville. Its land is too cheap. That is why sprawl occurs.
Everyone I talk to wants a downtown with life. There are enough strip malls already. Nobody wants another suburban mall. Nobody. Except outside developers."
This development will certainly improve the traffic on Philips and 95 won't it.
For those talking about the Fort Worth Stockyards, they are not located downtown. They are north of the downtown area. The reason that Fort Worth's downtown is so nice is because of the Bass family. In the 70's, Fort Worth had the problems a lot of cities did. Business were leaving downtown, it was becoming run down, and crime skyrocketed. The Bass brothers had the forsight to put a bunch of money into downtown. They also spent money and continue to do so to this day on a private security force to patrol downtown in addition to the Fort Worth Police. You can see them on horseback and bicycles throughout downtown. This saved the city from the fate that many others took during that time period.
Of course the Bass' have endless amounts of money mainly from oil and some from other ventures. The big money family that could do that in Jax? You guessed it: John Peyton and family with Gate Oil. Of course we all know how competent John Peyton is at fixing things in this town.
Well I more or less talking about having something unique that would draw people to it, which the stockyards do. I dont think putting a havertys downtown would draw people downtown, but come with a way to incoprarate our natuaral draw downtown, the river with MOCA and Florida Theater, then you are going somewhere.
Quote from: avonjax on February 08, 2008, 01:25:07 PM
From the renderings it appears that Brookyln Park's retail will not resemble a strip mall...
Am I wrong?
You're not wrong. Brooklyn Park will not resemble a strip mall whatsoever.
I wonder what impact wal-mart will have to those businesses. i guess we can say toys-r-us is dead...
It's Walmartville! How creepy can these fake towns get?! Yuuuuck!
I'm very happy to hear a Wal-Mart is coming into this area. Please tell me when it is to open. Thanks.
Quote from: fhrathore on February 10, 2008, 11:44:15 PM
I wonder what impact wal-mart will have to those businesses. i guess we can say toys-r-us is dead...
They are bulding a new one at the SJTC. They might be closing the Avenues one anyway.
The Toys-r-us at Regency is still open, despite both Target and Walmart being a few blocks away.
I saw a HHGregg van on I295 this morning. Could they be moving in equipment already?
BTW, aren't they similar to a Best Buy?
Interesting comments. Many dislike strip mall repetition, while others welcome some of the bigger stores coming to the area. I am new to the Jax area and have been keenly eyeing all major recent developments and upcoming ones.
To be blunt Jax could do much more to attract the culture/arts/entertainment/tourist dollar, which the young adult (20s-40s) crowd loves to seek out. Cityplace in West Palm Beach, Citywalk in Orlando. A real destination instead of just a place to shop that looks nice.
Bay Street Station could become that destination if it becomes reality. One of the developers (the same group building Avenues Walk) stated at an MPO meeting last week that it would include a 13 screen theater and a bowling alley, in addition to a huge amount of space for restaurants and other entertainment purposes. Here's a link to more information on that project:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/739/122/
Quote from: thelakelander on February 13, 2008, 01:00:41 PM
The Toys-r-us at Regency is still open, despite both Target and Walmart being a few blocks away.
Has anyone been to the Regency lately? I stopped in last weekend and was shocked! It has most likely been at least a year since I was there, but boy has it it gone down hill fast! I walked into Dillards and it is now like a "rack store" only the first floor is open and it is all kinds of items on the floor or racks, pretty junky....lots of no name stores, a few still hold out such as the Limited and Gap, but the mall is pretty bad, I won;t be going back, ever.
Bay Street Station looks interesting, but how does it take advantage of city block, sidewalks, outside space and greenery? Looks like it will all be indoors.
Now how about that quad portion of city block just to the northwest of said Bay Street Station. THAT could really be made into something.
avenue's walk is going to be mediocre for a while. if they wanted a supercenter in that area they should've gone for a Super Target, not a walmart! they put a Super target out at oakleaf and there's already one out on 17 and there's only one super target on the east side of the river off hodges and that's brand new! i think the people near the avenues walk would've appreciated a super target a lot more.