Mayor Brown not a fan of SOE's downtown proposal
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/images/gateway_mall/DCP_9363.jpg)
Jacksonville Mayor Alvin Brown expresses his administration's view of the Duval County Supervisor of Elections' desire to construct a new consolidated downtown office building in LaVilla.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2012-sep-mayor-brown-not-a-fan-of-soes-downtown-proposal
KMart on Beach is opening up.
I can appreciate the Mayor's position re potential costs to the taxpayers in the short term (apparently in the area of $5 million - maybe more).
But are there any other benefits to the taxpayers that may be gained from moving downtown (or adjacent to downtown)? I think there may be a savings from consolidating his operations under one roof. If the city owns the building, is there a possibility that office space in the building can be leased to other tenants? There is also the issue of leading the way on bringing development and jobs back into the downtown area. Also, is there any benefit to having the SoE offices near the courts?
It's not my money, but it seems like there are worse ways the city could spend $5 million. That's just my opinion.
How much space does Holland need? How about a compromise and lease existing space in one of the buildings? Assuming he needs 15,000 SF and would pay $20 gross, the landlord will put in some TI...you're at $300,000 in rent for the year. This seems like a no brainer to me...why saddle the taxpayer with $5M to build an ugly new building when there is so much available space for cheap downtown?
Plus if the mayor is all about "return on taxpayers money" or saving money, it REALLY doesn't make sense to spend $5M up front and then still have to deal with carrying costs of a new building. Just lease and be done with it. We keep saddling Lavilla with these shit single tenant buildings, and pretty soon there will be no hope for the area becoming something more if every corner parcel is occupied by a walled off office building surrounded by surface parking.
From Jerry Holland:
QuoteI would welcome an existing building. I need 65,000 square feet, with 2 loading docks 150 parking spaces, one story, on the city’s bus route. I have looked but would welcome looking at any site you are aware of. I did have the city’s real estate division also review all city own properties. I will say as mentioned the site we are looking forward is city owned property.
QuoteOne reason dedicated parking is necessary is because voting is a protected right that must have a higher level of accessibility. Making voters pay parking or walk long distances from parking garages is seen as barriers for those with limited mobility or finances for parking. We did look at the old library, but there was no public parking, and the accessibility to load out 32 trucks for the elections appeared create a traffic problem. Also, because of the need to have the ware house on the first floor, have in other offices on the 2nd floor make it more difficult for voter access. We have looked at ware house only sites however the location must also house our call center, poll worker training rooms, canvassing, absentee ballot processing center, making these locations distant of our downtown office creates an inefficient operation and cost more to operate, also we have the need for the location to still be very accessible from all locations for poll worker training and post election canvassing.
Here's a link to the thread about Holland's design criteria:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,15999.0.html
The letter sounds less like Brown's actively opposed to it and more like he's just washing his hands of it while hitting some talking points about costs. This isn't particularly unusual.
In a non-election year, how busy is the SOE office? How often do they need to "load out 32 trucks"? I'm guessing it's not a weekly thing. Also, has Jerry ever heard of an elevator? I heard they work wonders for getting people up to higher floors.
I really think the facility he wants is absolute overkill and it would only be used at its maximum potential for about 10% of the time. Why not put his administrative offices and call center in the Greenleaf building or another class B property downtown and then partner with Mac Papers or another local company during election time to get his trucks loaded and ready? This would be a great time for Alvin to show some innovative thinking to help save costs and meet the needs of all parties.
Maybe the city can save an existing warehouse around Myrtle or in East Springfield? Not sure any approach 65,000 SF, so save two? Convenience, accessibility, no traffic issues, etc etc etc. There has to be a solution that does not involve destroying another block in Lavilla, making the area that much more antagonistic to private sector mixed-use infill development.
I agree with the warehouse suggestion. Unless those parameters change, Downtown would be better off without it.
The SAX site is much more conducive to commercial, museum or other attractor development.
If the mobility plan moratorium is allowed to sunset, many of these development opportunities will spring to life along fixed route transit and improved public roadways.
The city is broke, we've put off our best development opportunity for a year, and suddenly we need new office buildings for SOE and JTA. Simply amazing. Might I suggest a new location for these agencies? The 'Isle of Pines' off the south coast of Cuba would offer them great views of the Caribbean Sea. I'm sure Raul would welcome them.
....former Main Library?
Why not send them down to the old courthouse redo several floors the parking space is there and loading docks could be added.
Quote from: simms3 on September 19, 2012, 09:43:41 AM
Maybe the city can save an existing warehouse around Myrtle or in East Springfield?
Is anything in the old Duval Laundry on East 9th street at the end of Ionia?
Edit: Guess it probably doesn't fit under the "city-owned" requirement.
I disagree that Downtown, or somewhere close to it, would be better off without the Supervisor of Elections office. At any rate Holland and company are to be commended for trying to consolidate their functions, get out of a decaying suburban site, and save taxpayer money. We need more of that kind of thinking.
QuoteThis would be a great time for Alvin to show some innovative thinking to help save costs and meet the needs of all parties.
Agreed, especially since we still do not have an accurate budget for the City for the next fiscal year.
Very quick surface research leads me to find that the office component and warehouse component are almost always separated in other cities. The office component is usually in an office building or a municipal building/government center of some sort and the warehouse locations if even needed are somewhere offsite.
If Jacksonville must do things differently and consolidate the office and warehouse/training facility in one separate location, then can it at least do so to the benefit of the city itself? There are so many unused buildings that are not contributing to the tax base that could be had for cheap with some nice cheap modifications to make for cool office and industrial space, and the restored buildings could incentivize private development, potentially adding to tax base...
Under no circumstances should something like the following images be allowed in the Northbank, even if it does have an office component:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Neighborhoods/Talleyrand/i-FSZc3SN/0/M/P1550610-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Neighborhoods/Talleyrand/i-BkGQrGZ/0/M/P1550520-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Neighborhoods/Dennis-Street-Warehouse/P1320565/814683996_LfM9y-M.jpg)
Unless Holland's design parameters change, a 65,000 warehouse box should be directed to an urban location on the peripheral of the Northbank like Myrtle Avenue or Talleyrand. No matter how we dress the walls up, downtown doesn't need anymore large scale surface parking lots and big boxes that permanently convert several blocks into dead pedestrian scale spaces.
The problem with locating it in Talleyrand or around Myrtle Ave. is access by those who utilize public transportation.
Instead why not consider designs that look less like a warehouse and more like an office building.
I smell one of Brown's Public/Private partnerships here.....Talk to the HAND!
Quote from: carpnter on September 19, 2012, 05:11:37 PM
The problem with locating it in Talleyrand or around Myrtle Ave. is access by those who utilize public transportation.
Myrtle and Beaver do get public transit service. That's one of the most transit dependent communities in town and JTA's maintenance yard is in the area as well.
QuoteInstead why not consider designs that look less like a warehouse and more like an office building.
Because urbanism and vibrancy is about interaction at the pedestrian scale, not making a building or landscape look pretty. So as long as you have a box with no interaction with the sidewalks and land uses surrounding it, it doesn't matter if its all white or green with purple polka dots and face windows. It's still a dead zone.
Perhaps its better to separate the warehouse and office operations? The office uses could be downtown and the warehouse operations could be in one of the warehouse districts surrounding downtown. That would allow you to take advantage of existing buildings for both uses, with both still in close proximity to one another.
thelakelander.
do you not think that the proposed site is on the outskirts of downtown enough so that it will never be emphasis for urbanization in your lifetime? The core of downtown is the focus where it should be. That site have nothing walk able or urban about it. If you build street level reatil there it will be on an island. I bet most people would want an attractive well maintained building there than holding breathes for a vibrant urban setting in that location. What do you think?
I believe the proposed site is a gateway site that would have been developed years ago if that development team who proposed townhomes there would have been allowed to proceed. This isn't about street level retail. This is about placing uses at the pedestrian scale that generate activity and integrate with the landscape surrounding them. In my opinion, every single project, no matter the use, should be designed for pedestrian scale interaction in the Northbank, if we really want to see it become a vibrant place long term.
Quote from: John P on September 19, 2012, 05:33:08 PM
I bet most people would want an attractive well maintained building there than holding breathes for a vibrant urban setting in that location. What do you think?
I believe you're right. I also believe most people in Jacksonville have no earthly clue to how a vibrant city is designed and works, which is why after 60 years of redevelopment, all we have to show for our efforts is a burnt out core of a downtown with billions flushed down the toilet.
Quote from: John P on September 19, 2012, 05:33:08 PM
thelakelander.
do you not think that the proposed site is on the outskirts of downtown enough so that it will never be emphasis for urbanization in your lifetime? The core of downtown is the focus where it should be. That site have nothing walk able or urban about it. If you build street level reatil there it will be on an island. I bet most people would want an attractive well maintained building there than holding breathes for a vibrant urban setting in that location. What do you think?
That's an example of a lack of forward thinking. You're right that right now the area is a dead zone with dirt lots, chain link fences, homeless, isolated suburban office buildings, LaVilla School, etc. BUT this is exactly the kind of area that could literally explode with new development under the right conditions. It and Brooklyn probably have by and far the most potential for infill in the city, and I have seen too many formerly similar areas in other cities become covered in mixed-use transit friendly density in a matter of a decade or less. Putting another warehouse in the area will just further kill the potential and put Jacksonville behind AND limit future tax rolls significantly.
Holland is thinking appropriately about saving the taxpayer money, but unless he knows something we all don't, and that may be the case, it seems there are far better and more effective ways to save the taxpayer money here AND improve the city in some way.
Still waiting on just one ULI article that mentions Jacksonville in any way...even negative press would be better than no press that we get now and the former chairman of ULI over the past year LIVES in Jacksonville! I have in my 3 years in the organization never seen the word Jacksonville mentioned in any of the bimonthly Urban Land magazines, but I can imagine that if the city takes the initiative with one of these warehouse districts and converts them into municipal use, leaving some for private sector use, then you could have a flashy article highlighting the city's creative ways to consolidate some agencies in space while bringing back to life a declined industrial area convenient to intown neighborhoods and commercial centers, all while being green and saving the taxpayer money of course and spurring private sector development in and around the same area. Like that will ever happen, but one can dream.
There is a property that appears to be available downtown for the SOE office that might fit the requirements.
It's about 4 blocks east from the Rosa Parks station, has a bus route of you can't walk 4 blocks, has tons of dividable floor space, high ceilings with several roll up doors to accommodate shipping and receiving and has a huge wrap around parking lot.
Warren Motors, State Street.
^^That is going to be demolished and become a McDonalds.