This would negate the Everbank move if it happens.
QuoteOne of Downtown Jacksonville’s largest office tenants, AT&T, is shopping the commercial real estate market for space â€" meaning it could leave the city center when its lease expires in about two years.
full article: http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2012/09/11/att-looking-for-office-space-could.html
I expect they'll pursue incentives to stay if it's remotely feasible for them. That's the problem with giving incentives to companies to move from one part of town to another- the people already there want a piece too.
Quote from: Tacachale on September 15, 2012, 08:41:48 AM
I expect they'll pursue incentives to stay if it's remotely feasible for them. That's the problem with giving incentives to companies to move from one part of town to another- the people already there want a piece too.
Agreed. AT&T is a pretty progressive company in terms of office space, too. They like to be in CBDs. They like to be consolidated. The encourage employees to use public transportation and they often have designed some of the most efficient office space around. Would be a tell tale shame if AT&T left downtown Jacksonville, probably a precedent for the company.
Remember that AT&T only has about 200 employees left downtown. They have been downsizing for at least a year. During that time, Everbank added 1,700 employees downtown and have 300 more to go before the end of this year.
I don't see it as anything to worry about. Companies are going to downsize, and move out. Others will move in to take their place. It is all part of a changing economy.
In fact, I would just as soon see a company that is in the process of a major downsizing be replaced downtown by one that is growing internally.
Not that it would surprise me, but they only have 200 workers over 5 floors (plus 2 more floors they're subleasing out)?
Quote from: dougskiles on September 15, 2012, 11:16:55 AM
Remember that AT&T only has about 200 employees left downtown. They have been downsizing for at least a year. During that time, Everbank added 1,700 employees downtown and have 300 more to go before the end of this year.
I don't see it as anything to worry about. Companies are going to downsize, and move out. Others will move in to take their place. It is all part of a changing economy.
In fact, I would just as soon see a company that is in the process of a major downsizing be replaced downtown by one that is growing internally.
That doesn't happen though because downtown Jax is such a toxic environment for new businesses, esp local ones. If what you said were true, then we'd have seen a few coffee shops open up to take advantage of Starbucks closing all their DT locations to fill the void. But that didn't happen. Downtown
is the void.
Quote from: Tacachale on September 15, 2012, 11:29:38 AM
Not that it would surprise me, but they only have 200 workers over 5 floors (plus 2 more floors they're subleasing out)?
Agreed, that really doesn't make sense, even for a prestigious law firm considering how large the floor plates are (which I know a big law firm would never ever have space in such a lowly building, just using it as a space reference)
How many employees does AT&T have in metro Jax? It has to be more than 200. So where is their suburban campus? They have to have a consolidated campus unless they do things differently in Jax than anywhere else?
Frankly I'll take no companies leaving downtown over a major F500 credit company vacating 7 floors in the city' largest office building. Everbank has plenty of room to grow in there, even with AT&T.
And then another question - what's going on with the building? Is it still with the special servicer? What's the occupancy with Everbank? Net of AT&T? Rents can't be going up, and up from where - $20 gross? It's Jacksonville. Parking can't be an issue - there's ample space across the street. New amenities and restaurants are going up and common areas are being renovated. This only makes the building more attractive and there's no way for whoever is in control of the building to push rents as a result considering the submarket. AT&T loves 1980s office buildings with huge floorplates in downtown areas and near any sort of form of public transit. This just seems so atypical that they would leave.
Who's an office broke that can explain the situation? Thanks.
Quote from: peestandingup on September 15, 2012, 11:43:29 AM
Quote from: dougskiles on September 15, 2012, 11:16:55 AM
Remember that AT&T only has about 200 employees left downtown. They have been downsizing for at least a year. During that time, Everbank added 1,700 employees downtown and have 300 more to go before the end of this year.
I don't see it as anything to worry about. Companies are going to downsize, and move out. Others will move in to take their place. It is all part of a changing economy.
In fact, I would just as soon see a company that is in the process of a major downsizing be replaced downtown by one that is growing internally.
That doesn't happen though because downtown Jax is such a toxic environment for new businesses, esp local ones. If what you said were true, then we'd have seen a few coffee shops open up to take advantage of Starbucks closing all their DT locations to fill the void. But that didn't happen. Downtown is the void.
The reference was to EverBank, which
is moving in, is local, and is growing.
Quote from: Tacachale on September 15, 2012, 12:12:00 PM
The reference was to EverBank, which is moving in, is local, and is growing.
Correct.
And the other point I would like to make is that much of Downtown's problem is perception. As the saying goes, "perception becomes reality".
Continual negative statements about Downtown just continue the negative perception. I am Downtown almost every day. I see optimism and energy throughout, people working hard to improve it in every way. It is a wonderful thing to be part of./
Quote from: dougskiles on September 15, 2012, 11:16:55 AM
Remember that AT&T only has about 200 employees left downtown. They have been downsizing for at least a year. During that time, Everbank added 1,700 employees downtown and have 300 more to go before the end of this year.
I don't see it as anything to worry about. Companies are going to downsize, and move out. Others will move in to take their place. It is all part of a changing economy.
In fact, I would just as soon see a company that is in the process of a major downsizing be replaced downtown by one that is growing internally.
Agreed. Plus, it would be nice to see that building fill up. I've always liked the design of the Charter/Southern Bell - Southern Bell - BellSouth - AT&T - EverBank Tower :D
Office "density" also factors into the equation.
Everbank has an employee ratio of 6 per 1,000 sf (which would be like a typical company occupying a 500,000 sf building instead of the 250,000 sf they are taking.)
AT&T was averaging 3 per 1,000 sf (when they had 800 employees downtown). I understand they are looking for 70,000 sf - and they may end up staying in the building after all. We just don't know yet.
Quote from: dougskiles on September 15, 2012, 12:32:18 PM
Continual negative statements about Downtown just continue the negative perception. I am Downtown almost every day. I see optimism and energy throughout, people working hard to improve it in every way. It is a wonderful thing to be part of./
+1000
or they may move to another building downtown. It doesn't mean that they would leave downtown. And spot on Doug, there is enery downtown and constant negativity doesn't help.
Downtown a void? Nothing could be further from the truth. The current real estate/financial recession coupled with an absolutely monumental shift away from the traditional office layout would make one think that Downtown is destined to be a ghost town. However leasing activity has been relatively stable. That being said no one is going to build a tower anytime soon and that frankly is a good thing for downtown. Redevelopment of existing maybe followed by midrise development...it'll happen. whats needed is a university to relocate at least an annex to the core.
A group of us went to a concert thursday night, hit the bars afterwards, we had a great time. others were too. I am pretty optimistic about DTs future.
Yeah what has been the news on the Trio? There was a drumroll and then nothing.
I think the one thing good that came out of the IBM study is that the downtown focus is too large. If you look at the area around Chamblins and surrounding.. not too bad. Just build out from the core that is working- call that downtown.
^There's FSCJ and Edward Waters is only a mile away. They may not be University of Florida but they're better than nothing. Florida Southern College in Lakeland only has 2,500 students and SCAD isn't that large either. However, both have had a significant impact on the urban neighborhoods surrounding them. Perhaps an effort should be made to help integrate them better with downtown instead of waiting on a major institution for come up with hundreds of millions for an urban branch campus they might not need.
Quote from: thelakelander on September 17, 2012, 05:26:06 PM
^There's FSCJ and Edward Waters is only a mile away. They may not be University of Florida but they're better than nothing. Florida Southern College in Lakeland only has 2,500 students and SCAD isn't that large either. However, both have had a significant impact on the urban neighborhoods surrounding them. Perhaps an effort should be made to help integrate them better with downtown instead of waiting on a major institution for come up with hundreds of millions for an urban branch campus they might not need.
Since you mentioned SCAD...
I LOVED what they did to downtown Savannah. What are the chances this town could ever get off it's ass and attract something along those lines????
Quote from: ben says on September 17, 2012, 05:30:00 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on September 17, 2012, 05:26:06 PM
^There's FSCJ and Edward Waters is only a mile away. They may not be University of Florida but they're better than nothing. Florida Southern College in Lakeland only has 2,500 students and SCAD isn't that large either. However, both have had a significant impact on the urban neighborhoods surrounding them. Perhaps an effort should be made to help integrate them better with downtown instead of waiting on a major institution for come up with hundreds of millions for an urban branch campus they might not need.
Since you mentioned SCAD...
I LOVED what they did to downtown Savannah. What are the chances this town could ever get off it's ass and attract something along those lines????
Any reason that UNF couldn't bring fine arts classes/studios/programs to Downtown? They are already doing great things at MOCA.
They would have to want too. That would be the biggest obstacle. Assuming they wanted too, COJ would be the next obstacle. When Florida Coastal wanted to move downtown a couple of years ago, COJ couldn't close the deal. The same thing is taking place with Ben's brewery now.
QuoteThe same thing is taking place with Ben's brewery now.
From some of the city planners I spoke to at the Jags game, the issue the City has now with Ben's plans are that they want someone who has a great big enormous plan for the green space downtown, not just one piece. I have not asked Ben if he wants to become a real estate developer, but it seems the City is just doing what its always done and seems to be getting the results its always got.
Quote from: thelakelander on September 17, 2012, 06:00:00 PM
They would have to want too. That would be the biggest obstacle. Assuming they wanted too, COJ would be the next obstacle. When Florida Coastal wanted to move downtown a couple of years ago, COJ couldn't close the deal. The same thing is taking place with Ben's brewery now.
A lot of people still think that FCSL only gave lip service to the idea of moving downtown. Not many realize that they actually tried to do so.
I know they are now, again, attempting to resurrect the idea of moving SOME, not all, of the operations downtown. Either student housing or a satellite campus.
We cannot have classes at MOCA if students don't enroll. Our students (generally) do not want to go downtown for class, especially when they have to pay for parking.
Quote from: ben says on September 17, 2012, 05:30:00 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on September 17, 2012, 05:26:06 PM
^There's FSCJ and Edward Waters is only a mile away. They may not be University of Florida but they're better than nothing. Florida Southern College in Lakeland only has 2,500 students and SCAD isn't that large either. However, both have had a significant impact on the urban neighborhoods surrounding them. Perhaps an effort should be made to help integrate them better with downtown instead of waiting on a major institution for come up with hundreds of millions for an urban branch campus they might not need.
Since you mentioned SCAD...
I LOVED what they did to downtown Savannah. What are the chances this town could ever get off it's ass and attract something along those lines????
I'd say very unlikely, and that's not at all unique to Jacksonville. These days it's very difficult to start viable new non-profit colleges. The best bet is to build up what we have, and to be on the ball when the very rare opportunities arise, as Charlotte did with Johnson & Wales. Not that that's comparable to SCAD, but it was a great addition to the city. In contrast, as you say, Jacksonville didn't have it together enough to get the law school to go where all the law stuff is at.
Quote from: jcjohnpaint on September 17, 2012, 06:54:57 PM
We cannot have classes at MOCA if students don't enroll. Our students (generally) do not want to go downtown for class, especially when they have to pay for parking.
We do offer classes in museum studies at MOCA, as well as internships. Jcjohn, that's my understanding too (and you'd know better than me) that there hasn't been much student interest in taking classes at MOCA (so far). Parking is clearly a factor there, and it's as much on us than it is on the city. We already charge students to park at UNF, and if they have classes downtown they have to pay even more. We need to find a way to cover or mitigate that for them.
We do have one life drawing class down there taught by Jim Draper. Our photo dept has some space in the basement for advanced students. I don't want to speak for all students, but the double charge on the parking is their biggest gripe. I think another issue is getting there between classes. I don't know I think it can be done though, at least if parking was not an issue.
Quote from: mtraininjax on September 17, 2012, 06:13:22 PM
QuoteThe same thing is taking place with Ben's brewery now.
From some of the city planners I spoke to at the Jags game, the issue the City has now with Ben's plans are that they want someone who has a great big enormous plan for the green space downtown, not just one piece. I have not asked Ben if he wants to become a real estate developer, but it seems the City is just doing what its always done and seems to be getting the results its always got.
Downtown is nothing but parking lots. The planner in me sees several other city owned parcels that may be suitable alternatives. I would think that the correct move would be to take advantage of the opportunity by suggesting an alternative site that may still meet the brewery's site selection criteria. That's a better alternative than letting this opportunity die with a new brewery being constructed in some random suburban industrial park.
I love how people say no one is going vertical downtown anytime soon; that's not really the case. While it does have to make financial sense; civic pride is a factor & there are projects on the table.
On a side note; the SE Everbank sign is up & lit tonight; it looks great! Go Jacksonville!
^^^But you fail to realize that a developer is often but one TINY part of financial interest in a new project. You have debt and you have investors, both now more proactively underwriting projects they are interested in on their own ends. Before if you had any experience, relationships, reputation etc you could do whatever you wanted and the money would flow your way. Now unless you're a 100 year old fund syndicator with $25B of assets under management like a Blackstone fund etc you're going to have to work your freaking ass off for money, both debt and equity. Proving to either side of the financial pyramid that Jacksonville is a place to invest in is almost more of a challenge than building the pyramids at Giza.
And then on top of it, Jacksonville doesn't have any home town hero developers - aside from very small time limited experience groups like Black Sheep Restaurant Group which enlist outside help. This is evident in the fact that a "developer" in Jacksonville is merely someone who either develops lots for homebuilders in master-planned suburban developments of regional impact or strip mall kings like Tony Sleiman. In many if not most other cities 1 million people and larger developer has come to mean something entirely different over the past decade. Developers have become local heros and celebrities in other cities for their ingenious infill developments or their ability to build up CBDs and make downtowns a nice place once again. They are the see and be seen people that everyone talks about or knows of. I guarantee you that nobody in Jax even knows the names of who is behind SJTC, but Frank Carter/Ben Carter are two well known developers in Atlanta. Everyone knows that Ben Carter put a good effort into Streets of Buckhead. Tomorrow night I'll be at a party with all the biggest names in town. Names that people know even outside of Atlanta. None are known for developing tract housing lots, but rather known for defining whole sections of town be it Midtown mixed-use, Buckhead towers, Vinings, Perimeter, the Westside, Lucky Marietta District in downtown, Fulton Industrial park (more industrial SF than almost all of NE FL in one park), etc etc.
So going vertical in Jax is going to take someone with ambition and leadership and some know how to raise money. Outsiders are putting up generic apartment communities near SJTC and a group is developing SJTC, which is replicated in every city multiple times over now. It's going to take a local to really do something downtown/intown, but we don't have anyone yet, nor the city leadership to provide the right environment.