Metro Jacksonville

QuoteWritten by
The Associated Press
FILED UNDER
Florida News


ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) - A privately financed company that wants to link a 240-mile train system extending from South Florida to Orlando International Airport is still trying to hash out a feasible plan.

The Orlando Sentinel reports that All Aboard Florida already has worked with Florida East Coast Railway to access tracks from Miami to Jacksonville. But the project remains without a current path to Orlando's airport.

All Aboard Florida executive vice president Husein Cumber says talks are continuing with the Orlando-Orange County Expressway Authority, which has a toll road that could be a viable location for a possible train path.

The billion-dollar project could be completed by 2014 and present competition for air carriers that connect central and South Florida.

Future plans for the train call for service that would include Jacksonville.

(Copyright 2012 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.)

If the Orlando - Miami route keeps getting stonewalled and IF they already have equipment on order (which is ver likely due to the short timeframe until their proposed start-up) we might well be looking at a JAX-MIA service with ORLANDO added later!

This reads like a bad reporting job on the Sentinel article from the other week. To me, that article didn't make it sound like they were getting stonewalled. It sounded like a typical negotiation process was underway. With that said, I'd be surprised to see Jax come online before Orlando.

this high speed or Amtrak light?

I would be mildly surprised but not shocked.  Jax would be a case of continuing to move the project forward while negotiating with Orlando.

Quote from: thelakelander on September 13, 2012, 01:25:28 PM
This reads like a bad reporting job on the Sentinel article from the other week. To me, that article didn't make it sound like they were getting stonewalled. It sounded like a typical negotiation process was underway. With that said, I'd be surprised to see Jax come online before Orlando.

I've thought all along that we might see something before Tampa does, it just wouldn't shock me to see them break in the operation on a JAX-MIA run. We shouldn't discount the thought that perhaps Amtrak hasn't backed away from the FEC, maybe the FEC has pulled away from Amtrak... We could easily be the interchange hub again, as the two rail operations swap trains. Of course the whole thing could go down as advertised, but the possibilities are VERY interesting.

Fsquid, The FECI project is a private passenger rail start-up over one of the country's premiere passenger routes of the past. The speeds will be greater then Amtrak, owing to FEC'S perfect track and advanced signaling. Expect 79 mph, between JAX and KING ST in St. Augustine, hence 90 mph to Cocoa, then 110 to West Palm, 90 to Fort Lauderdale and back to 79 into Miami. By definition this is known as HrSR (highER speed rail) and it's an idea that should have been at the forefront of Obama's plan. Conventional passenger train equipment can easily handle these speeds.

Quote from: Ocklawaha on September 13, 2012, 02:59:01 PM

Quote from: thelakelander on September 13, 2012, 01:25:28 PM
This reads like a bad reporting job on the Sentinel article from the other week. To me, that article didn't make it sound like they were getting stonewalled. It sounded like a typical negotiation process was underway. With that said, I'd be surprised to see Jax come online before Orlando.

I've thought all along that we might see something before Tampa does, it just wouldn't shock me to see them break in the operation on a JAX-MIA run. We shouldn't discount the thought that perhaps Amtrak hasn't backed away from the FEC, maybe the FEC has pulled away from Amtrak... We could easily be the interchange hub again, as the two rail operations swap trains. Of course the whole thing could go down as advertised, but the possibilities are VERY interesting.

Fsquid, The FECI project is a private passenger rail start-up over one of the country's premiere passenger routes of the past. The speeds will be greater then Amtrak, owing to FEC'S perfect track and advanced signaling. Expect 79 mph, between JAX and KING ST in St. Augustine, hence 90 mph to Cocoa, then 110 to West Palm, 90 to Fort Lauderdale and back to 79 into Miami. By definition this is known as HrSR (highER speed rail) and it's an idea that should have been at the forefront of Obama's plan. Conventional passenger train equipment can easily handle these speeds.

I hope this happens I would love to take a train to Miami with these speeds!

I expect, if the Orlando/Miami route is successful, you'll see a Jax extension before Tampa, simply because FEC already owns the line to Jacksonville.  However, at this point, I seriously doubt anything involving Jacksonville happens before some sort of connection is made to Orlando.  The whole point of them doing this is to attempt to tie together Florida's two largest regions and tap into their tourism market.  I question this article as being faulty, partially based on this quote:

QuoteThe Orlando Sentinel reports that All Aboard Florida already has worked with Florida East Coast Railway to access tracks from Miami to Jacksonville.

There was nothing to ever work out.  All Aboard Florida is a FECI project and FECI owns FEC.  It's not like FEC would tell All Aboard Florida it can't operate on their tracks.  The whole point of this thing is to take advantage of the infrastructure they already have in place.  Now all they need is to finalize the route of the 40 miles they don't.

I thought that line was pretty funny. The reasons I wouldn't be shocked is there is a mandated test period for new rail cars, locomotives, and new crews on passenger trains. FEC has their major shops in Jacksonville, and guess where the connection is that the new equipment would arrive at (unless it comes into a port, in which case it could show up anywhere) but however it gets here, it's headed to Jacksonville. If they're going to run off that miles requirement it would certainly be better to do it between the shop in Jacksonville and the one in New Smyrna Beach. Once all of this is on the ground and abuzz around north Florida, we will come into sharper focus. This would also be a great time for our lethargic leaders and nonexistent Chamber-of-Commerce development team to wine and dine these boys and girls.

Vegas XTrain just picked up their bi-levels and sent them in for refurbishment. Says they will be ready early next year.

http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Las-Vegas-Railway-Express-Inc-X-Train-Acquires-First-Passenger-Train-Railcar-Set-OTCQB-XTRN-1695068.htm (http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Las-Vegas-Railway-Express-Inc-X-Train-Acquires-First-Passenger-Train-Railcar-Set-OTCQB-XTRN-1695068.htm)

(http://media.marketwire.com/attachments/201208/TN-50270_XTrain.jpg)

Talgo just sent their new trainsets for the Hiawatha (Chicago/MILW) & Oregon Cascades to Pueblo for certification, but a lot of bridges got burned getting there.

http://youtu.be/uCrqMd7a77M (http://youtu.be/uCrqMd7a77M)

The Talgo's go into revenue service in Spring 2013.
http://urbanmilwaukee.com/2012/05/31/murphys-law-did-the-state-screw-talgo/ (http://urbanmilwaukee.com/2012/05/31/murphys-law-did-the-state-screw-talgo/)

Thanks to meddling from the train engineers union, they really screwed the styling on these as well.

(http://cms.oregon.gov/ODOT/COMM/PublishingImages/cab_car1.gif)

What happened to industrial design? Raymond Loewy we need you!

http://www.raymondloewy.com/ (http://www.raymondloewy.com/)

Quote from: Ocklawaha on September 13, 2012, 09:56:26 PM
I thought that line was pretty funny. The reasons I wouldn't be shocked is there is a mandated test period for new rail cars, locomotives, and new crews on passenger trains. FEC has their major shops in Jacksonville, and guess where the connection is that the new equipment would arrive at (unless it comes into a port, in which case it could show up anywhere) but however it gets here, it's headed to Jacksonville. If they're going to run off that miles requirement it would certainly be better to do it between the shop in Jacksonville and the one in New Smyrna Beach. Once all of this is on the ground and abuzz around north Florida, we will come into sharper focus. This would also be a great time for our lethargic leaders and nonexistent Chamber-of-Commerce development team to wine and dine these boys and girls.

Sounds like a lot of speculation. Testing equipment (if it happened here) and running a system to Jax are completely different animals.  For All Aboard Florida to run to Jax before Orlando, a lot of unforeseen steps would still have to take place. To me, two of these steps include:

1. Them officially can't getting to Orlando

2. Them deciding to extend to a much smaller market without that main targeted tourism component (Jax), instead of abandoning the idea altogether.

Quote from: spuwho on September 14, 2012, 05:52:01 PM
Thanks to meddling from the train engineers union, they really screwed the styling on these as well.

(http://cms.oregon.gov/ODOT/COMM/PublishingImages/cab_car1.gif)

What happened to industrial design? Raymond Loewy we need you!

http://www.raymondloewy.com/ (http://www.raymondloewy.com/)

With a bit of imagination it doesn't look too far from the low profile of the old 'babyface' design of the early Baldwin Diesel Cab-Units. Damn shame they didn't just go with the old design and come away with something pleasing to the eyes.

Quote from: thelakelander on September 14, 2012, 06:00:07 PM
Sounds like a lot of speculation. Testing equipment (if it happened here) and running a system to Jax are completely different animals.  For All Aboard Florida to run to Jax before Orlando, a lot of unforeseen steps would still have to take place. To me, two of these steps include:

1. Them officially can't getting to Orlando

2. Them deciding to extend to a much smaller market without that main targeted tourism component (Jax), instead of abandoning the idea altogether.

Maybe so, but the trains can't be tested elsewhere. Likewise they will have to be inspected and that is going to be either JAX or New Smyrna Beach. So even if we can't ride it, we will certainly see it.

Even in the best scenario, I don't think we'll see anything like hourly service for many years. My speculation is they could easily enjoin Amtrak's effort to move trains to the FEC RY. This would indeed kill several birds with a single stone. Hourly service between Orlando and Miami, could spell the start of a joint FEC/AMTRAK train (essentially an FEC train with a handful of Amtrak cars in tow) two times daily (2 trains each way daily), growing to 6 over a period of years (6 trains each way daily).
In doing this they grab the bulk of the South Florida bound passenger load, at Jacksonville, plus the additional local fares on the east coast. It could well be the way to get this system serving Jacksonville ASAP. 

We'll just have to wait and see...

Quote from: Ocklawaha on September 13, 2012, 02:59:01 PM

Quote from: thelakelander on September 13, 2012, 01:25:28 PM
This reads like a bad reporting job on the Sentinel article from the other week. To me, that article didn't make it sound like they were getting stonewalled. It sounded like a typical negotiation process was underway. With that said, I'd be surprised to see Jax come online before Orlando.

I've thought all along that we might see something before Tampa does, it just wouldn't shock me to see them break in the operation on a JAX-MIA run. We shouldn't discount the thought that perhaps Amtrak hasn't backed away from the FEC, maybe the FEC has pulled away from Amtrak... We could easily be the interchange hub again, as the two rail operations swap trains. Of course the whole thing could go down as advertised, but the possibilities are VERY interesting.

Fsquid, The FECI project is a private passenger rail start-up over one of the country's premiere passenger routes of the past. The speeds will be greater then Amtrak, owing to FEC'S perfect track and advanced signaling. Expect 79 mph, between JAX and KING ST in St. Augustine, hence 90 mph to Cocoa, then 110 to West Palm, 90 to Fort Lauderdale and back to 79 into Miami. By definition this is known as HrSR (highER speed rail) and it's an idea that should have been at the forefront of Obama's plan. Conventional passenger train equipment can easily handle these speeds.

I wish they'd hurry up & do it already. Ive been waiting all my life to ride in a train over the FEC bridge downtown  :)
(Yes, Im aware this is part of a large transportation plan - but the FEC bridge is still cool)

I dont care what happens, I just hope there is a Cocoa/Cape Canaveral stop.

There won't be in the short term.  Probably so in the long term.

I recently had to make a trip to DelRay Beach/Boynton Beach and all I could think of was how much easier it would have been if I had taken AAF instead.

They can't start this service soon enough for me.

Seems that we're still on the radar, maybe more then some think. Mr. Cumber lives in Jacksonville, along with nearly all of the executives of the Florida East Coast Railroad.

As for the Cocoa stop, it is entirely possible that the trains will stop in the modern Cocoa station which was built just before the 1963 strike. I think the lack of 'Cocoa' has more to do with where the new (Orlando) line links with the FEC mainline.  If the connection is where Florida High Speed Rail  planned it,  then the station is already in place, if the connection comes in south of the station, then there would be a delay in creating a stop.

The Cocoa-Rockledge Railroad station has been leased to a local company for years, the lease might contain a date to vacate, and the building will probably require a makeover, not to mention passenger platforms.  So the answer to the question everyone asks is: "Of course they won't build a station in Cocoa-Rockledge, THE STATION IS ALREADY THERE!"

QuoteAll Aboard Florida still seeking route to airport


Would-be builders of a billion-dollar privately financed train still are looking at several options on how to get from near Cocoa to Orlando International Airport.

All Aboard Florida, the 240-mile system that would link the airport with three South Florida cities, has access to tracks running from downtown Miami all the way to Jacksonville through Florida East Coast Railway. But the company stills needs a path to get to OIA.

Husein Cumber, executive vice president of development for All Aboard Florida, said Wednesday his company continues to talk with the state and the Orlando Orange County Expressway Authority, both of which operate a toll road where the right of way would provide the most logical path for the train.

Though Cumber declined to discuss specifics of the negotiations, he said the goal is to have a pact by the end of the year. All Aboard Florida also could announce the type of locomotive and cars it would use by year's end, Cumber said.

"We're making significant progress," Cumber told a meeting of MetroPlan Orlando, which sets transportation policy in Orange, Seminole and Osceola counties.

The train, which could start operating in 2014, would compete with the airlines flying between Orlando and South Florida. It would offer including Wi-Fi Internet service, meals and reserved business and coach seating.

Projected travel time is three hours, compared with about four hours by automobile. Cumber said the train could hit a top speed of 125 mph between Cocoa and the airport.

All Aboard Florida is an arm of Florida East Coast Industries. FEC owns, manages, develops and leases real estate throughout the state. One of its affiliates is Florida East Coast Railway, which hauls freight on tracks running near the East Coast.

Eventually, All Aboard Florida officials say they could offer passenger service to Jacksonville, too.

SOURCE:dltracy@tribune.com

Looks the same to me. Our "on their radar" equates to Jax and Tampa coming online if the Orlando/Miami route is a success. Cocoa not having a stop at this point has more to do with the toll road negotiations than anything else.

Exactly, and for those who don't know it, that toll road splits as it enters Cocoa from Orlando, the old HSR plan laid out routes on both as well as one that used the southern split and then off the road and dodging neighborhoods all the way to the mainline.

There are forces at work in this that we don't know, I strongly suspect governor Scott is deeply embedded but won't say so until the line is under construction and he is up for reelection. Then we'll hear how he killed the poorly planned "Socialist, Russian Style High Speed Railroad," and gave us a private high speed line.

I also believe we are in for train service ahead of Tampa and very close to the Orlando opening.

Another item of interest is the proposed speeds of the Amtrak Florida East Coast trains, 79 to St. Augustine, and 90 south of King Street. Those speed limits fit right in to their passenger rail concept.

Quote from: Ocklawaha on September 23, 2012, 07:31:48 PM
I also believe we are in for train service ahead of Tampa

that is likely...because I really doubt CSX will let them use their system (heck CSX doesn't want any passenger rail between Lakeland and Tampa interfering with their freight services)...so getting to Tampa will require negotitations with the state on use of I-4 ROW as well as laying the tracks

The simple fact that FEC already owns the track into Jax makes this likely.  I also agree with Ock that it could happen fairly quickly, depending on the initial success of the Orlando/Miami segment.  Having something up and running in time for St. Augustine's anniversary in 2015 would be a major ridership and advertising opportunity.  I also believe getting to Tampa will require use of the I-4 corridor since the CSX track is highly unlikely.

I just noticed that FEC owns all of the land south of the Cemex Plant in Cocoa, which is right next to the Beachline and Industry Parkway. This gives them a convenient wye to turn around the trains and gives them access to either the Beachline median, or several utility easements running between Cocoa and Orlando south of the Beachline.

So technically a feeder bus from MCO could just get off at Industry Parkway enter the temp station on the wye where the train would be waiting with no disruption to through freight traffic on the main.