Pop TV psychology has taught me that the first step in solving a problem is to admit there is a problem. When that happens, things can change. The MJ community has identified the many problems and mistakes Jacksonville has done in the past. This would be a good first step except MJ is just a very small portion of Jacksonville with a small amount of power.
Do the power brokers and majority of the citizens actually think Jacksonville is heading the wrong direction? Do they recognize the mistakes of the past? Do they think those were actually mistakes at all?
I think the bigger question is do the citizens really care? Outside of MJ and a few other websites not many people care about the city, just their own patch of grass around their home and some don't care about that. There's no sense of community here. No sense of urgency to get the city moving forward.
The larger the city, the less sense of community. I think there is great apathy. Many do not care, and others struggle for what often ends up as a futile effort. Yes, there have been some successes, but often after great effort.
I guess you pick your battles: Do you want larger city to eliminate intra-regional/metro municipality squabbling and bolster your chances with the state? Or do you want smaller city that has to fight state and metro/region, but is nearly homogeneously unified on issues and discourse and has a sense of community/purpose?
Quote from: mbwright on September 12, 2012, 04:47:27 PM
The larger the city, the less sense of community. I think there is great apathy. Many do not care, and others struggle for what often ends up as a futile effort. Yes, there have been some successes, but often after great effort.
While I agree there is great apathy, I'm not so sure it can be blamed on the size of the city. MJ's Elements of Urbanism series has shown plenty of places that are both larger and smaller that have managed to get their act together. In my opinion it is lack of leadership holding us back.
I agree with Keith that most Jacksonville residents are complacent as long as they are content in their neighborhoods with all of their local amenities. The drive to have a 'first tier' city tends to be watered down by the fact that most Floridians once resided in 'first tier' cities, paid high taxes to support 'first tier cities' and now chose to move south to save a few bucks and avoid subsidizing their new hometown...
not to be negative and you know this may not be what youre looking for but, the other day i was at a gas station and ended up talking to a "traveler". we talked about why he was in town his reason being that he was looking for work and along the line ended up passing through. some how ended up telling me how he wanted to open up a few restaraunts across america. jokingly i said how about nyc, la, and jacksonville. he replies "if i was ever to open one in florida it would be in st. pete, orlando, miami etc". i asked why jax wasnt even on his radar and he said " i want to open in a big city". this somewhat caught my attention. ofcourse i asked about his knowledge of jacksonville. he in a nutshell told me that he didn't think of jacksonville as a "big city" or for that matter a very nice city. :-[ this coming from an unbiased person with no ties to florida kind of made me rethink my opinion of my home town. :'(
Quote from: cityimrov on September 12, 2012, 02:28:32 PM
Do the power brokers and majority of the citizens actually think Jacksonville is heading the wrong direction? Do they recognize the mistakes of the past? Do they think those were actually mistakes at all?
I know we go over a lot of the specifics on this website, but to think about it a little more abstractly, I think a lot of the problems you see with Jacksonville are based on what I would call declining generational standards. Take the grass cutting for example, we can certainly "live" with taller grass, that's not the issue. The problem is that once taller grass becomes the "norm" or acceptable, it's very easy to push it to the next level. Its very easy to normalize situations. Especially in Jacksonville, where environmental interaction can be so controlled with house-to-automobile-to-work-to-automobile-to-home. Look at Downtown, there have been almost 2 full generations that have grown up with a vacant, homeless run, parking lot laden downtown. To a lot of them, that is the norm, so you have to start with drastic measures ("Level it all!"), or big huge projects ("bring town center downtown"). The small incremental changes that caused the downfall were not seen in the aggregate by people, so small changes to build it up are not thought of.
I read an article about this a while ago. They were talking about kids fishing in the Hudson, or other NYC, river, and how there was a whole generation of kids who grew up never even thinking to fish out of the river cause it was so dirty. Well now, it's easier for them to accept more pollution or dirtier rivers cause "hey, it's always been that way"...but it wasn't always.
Long rambling post I know.
I think it has not been that long since our peer cities have been wiping the floor with us.
Recently and in the near future the city will: go broke, be choked with traffic (still to come), rank lowest in (coolness, art, culture, education, safty both pedestrian and crime, jobs, home to corporations etc etc etc- you name it), have even worse crime, look like crap, have inner core apocalypse syndrom (in many cases already does).
The growth of the city is beginning to stop. The city will have NO excuse.
At this time politicians will either say: 'Hey this MJ group must be fortune tellers" or, just take credit for everything on this site.
Change for the better will come. The question is how long will it take and how pathetic will this place have to become?
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on September 12, 2012, 03:13:36 PM
I think the bigger question is do the citizens really care? Outside of MJ and a few other websites not many people care about the city, just their own patch of grass around their home and some don't care about that. There's no sense of community here. No sense of urgency to get the city moving forward.
I agree with this. 35 engineers here in the office and not one has a care about downtown and how it can get better despite a few living in Riverside and Ortega. Mainly the response that the others have made, "Well its always been that way."
If you want change, and I mean real change, you have to do more than hope for it. Demand it, make it happen, RAP did just that when Dr. Wood and others saved the Train Station/Convention Center. They could have let it fall down and be torn down, like Worman's, but they chose to fight. Timken is fighting to save Annie Lytle, will he win? Time will tell, but until the citizens who WANT and DEMAND change can rally enough others, the city will remain in the status quo. We have neighborhoods that have zealous neighbors, Riverside, Avondale, San Marco to name a few, even Springfield, but outside of those corps urban areas, what crazy thing last happened in Mandarin or San Souci or even (insert any gated community).
Having just returned from a trip to Cincinnati, I was blown away with the MONEY that is in that city and especially downtown. Some guy built a 1,000 seat brewery on the banks of the Ohio, with 40 million of his own money. Huge place, connected with the riverfront apartments and other retail down near the banks. Sure Jax could do this, but between Ben, Brian, and the other breweries in town, AB not in this league, could we build a 4 million complex, let alone 40 million? I noticed that Cincy had lots of residences downtown, and the residents drove what the commercial provided in the space. We have a great river, greater than the Ohio, all we lack is money and the constant demand of the people who want change that we want something greater than what we have now.
I think it's the other way around, honestly. I think the people here are in denial. I've lived here three years now, and I've recently financially committed to a 4th year. I find most of the people here to be poor, uneducated, uncultured, and even dirty. They neither want, nor can afford, the things the educated elite on MJ cherish so much.
Honestly, I'm in a constant state of amazement that some of you people are from Jacksonville. For that, I consider you to be truely remarkable people, and definitely the minority, not the norm.
I really think that part of the issue is when younger people want something better and get tired of fighting an uphill battle, they leave town. I'm visiting a friend this week who, like me, was born and bred in Jacksonville. He left for Greenville, SC a few years ago and works as an engineer up here (making far more than he ever did in Jax). He comes back home to check on his mom once a month and is amazed at how different Jacksonville seems, and not in a good way.
Other friends - artists, TV commercial producers, etc - are leaving or have left for places like Austin, Houston, San Francisco, Miami... My wife is ready to go, too, but I've talked her into staying another couple years. But if too many more friends take off.... I dunno. The people who have lived here forever seem to have stayed because they weren't looking for a modern, progressive urban environment. So when those are the people who stick around and a majority of people who want something more pack up and leave......
Blah blah blah, I know this guy, who hates Jax, and he said that it was boring here, so it had me reevaluating my reasons on staying here because blah blah blah blah blah blah. One person even thought that the Jags played in Daytona Beach, hell you can't blame him, because blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. I was gonna leave from here to a nicer city like Charlotte, but my income wouldn't allow me, so blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. It's very sad living in a city that doesn't care *obligatory sad face :(* Hopefully that's negative, and gloomy enough for MJ....
Jacksonville doesn't seem like a very transient city (other than retirees). And I'd bet there are more young people/professionals moving out than are moving in, mostly out of frustration. Young people these days don't want to dick around & wait for their city to get its act together. They want it now. If it doesn't have it (or on the cusp of it), they go somewhere that does. Simple as that. And what's left are a bunch of townies & lifers, thus continuing the vicious cycle of poo.
So really I don't believe anyone is in denial. I just think the vast majority simply don't know the difference. The ones who do know GTF out. And that is definitely reflected in the city as a whole.
Just do it. I've lived in seven states. I've been in several cities and some places that would qualify as villages. Each had their strengths and weaknesses. One thing was constant though. They were all themselves. Alamo, Gerogia population 100 was not Atlanta population 4 mil +. Neither one would become the other.
Jacksonville will never be Atlanta, Cleveland, Honolulu, etc. If you want it to be those places maybe you need to go there. It might try to emulate some of those elements but it will never match them.
Personally I'll build what ever the people with money want downtown. You want a high rise, fine I'll build it. You want a hospital, fine I'll build it. You want a theater district with clubs and watering holes. Fine, raise the money I'll be happy to build it. I can't see it from my house.
I'm done!! If I want to read this bullshit I would read the TU posters. So congrats you people actually out douched the TU.