Metro Jacksonville

Elements of Urbanism: Denver

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/2039527722_tFVtwrb-M.jpg)

Metro Jacksonville's Robert Mann goes a "Mile High" to visit a city that has made locating complementing uses within a compact pedestrian scale setting, complete with multimodal connectivity: Denver

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2012-sep-elements-of-urbanism-denver

Great article and awesome pictures, Bob. Nice to see. I last visited Denver in 1998. It has changed a lot, but even then it was impressive.

From your article, it's clear there are a lot of options for getting around: foot, bike, bus, tram, rail or car.

I was particularly impressed by the bike ramp by the stairs. They do that in the Netherlands, I believe, but I've never seen one on that scale.

It's almost as if the City of Denver wants to make things easier for its residents.

I was in Denver back in 2006, its amazing how some cities seem to be moving forward with projects to improve their citiy. I'm sure they have had some set backs, but for the most part they seemed to be getting the job done.

Certainly one of the most amazing and progressive cities in America!  Looks like you really captured a great vibe there.  My mom went to DU for undergrad, I'm sure she'd be shocked and impressed at how much the city has changed since she was last there, enjoying the "small town" it once was.

I went there somewhere around 2000-2002, and indeed it was quite impressive then.  Obviously it has come even further.

Colorado as a whole is just an impressive state. No billboards statewide, lots of scenic landscape everywhere you go.  Historic Western towns that have been completely restored.  I can't remember the name of the one  I went to.  Rocky Mountain National park is great too.   I didn't get a chance to see Boulder but everything I have heard is positive. 

Looks like Mellow Mushroom is slowly ruining another neighborhood.  I can't see a single piece of trash on the ground, but I'm sure that was just clever editing on Bob's part.

I was in Denver last year and I loved it.  We had to kill a few hours while we waited for my sister's flight to get in, so we went downtown.  We had no map, no idea where we were going, but we just parked and walked around for a while.  We ended up having a great time visiting shops and a pub that was better than any i've seen in Jax.  The density and complementing uses made passing the time a joy.  In Jacksonville, I suspect many travelers experience the opposite.

Denver's attention to detail and the end user is easily apparant in these few photos. Imagine what else is there that Bob wasn't able to capture on his brief stay.

I first visited Denver in the late-80s and at the time it reminded me quite a bit of Jacksonville.  A lot of the architecture seemed similar, like both cities had experienced growth spurts at similar times.  But boy have they pulled ahead of us!  Just goes to show you what can be achieved when a city wants to move into the big leagues and works to get there, rather than simply churn out plan after plan that goes nowhere.

I grew up just outside of Denver in Aurora.  I loved it growing up, there were always awesome things happening and I got to see a lot of awesome concerts and visit really cool coffee shops (I wasn't old enough for bars).  When I first moved to Jacksonville I really thought it had the same potential as Denver and I can see it growing slowly, but I know we have the potential to be a great city that others admire as well.

Just by looking at the cover photo you can see a number of differences between denver and jax.  The first thing that pops out is the pedestrian bridge.  Regardless of what this bridge is traversing, I don't know of any pedestrian bridge of that scale in Jax.  Second is how well maintained that park is.  I can't think of a single public space in Jax that looks that manicured and well maintained.  Third, the tower crane.  When Baptist took down its crane, Jacksonville's skyline became completely devoid of any tower crane or even a large mobile crane.  The largest cranes in town can be found at the Towncenter.  Finally the most obvious difference is densly clustered midrise urban infill buildings.  Jax is completely devoid of any significant residential density anywhere near the urban core. 

Jax's leaders need to sit down and look at this one picture and they would be able to learn a lot from Denver in just a short time.

Used to live there (and up The Hill in Evergreen). Believe me when I say that downtown Denver didn't used to feature much of anything. I find it interesting that the first early investments in downtown rejuvenation-- the performing arts center area, Larimer Square, and the former Tivoli mall--are all now integrated into larger vibrant areas or converted to other uses.

Denver may have started off with a little more than JAX has downtown now, but not much. If they can do it, we really have no excuse.

Quick research on Denver's taxes.  The average home value in 2011 was $225K, so not much higher than in Jacksonville, and so the average tax bill was $1,277.  Denver combined millage rate was 71.307 mils for ad valorum/school/etc and the actual value was an assessed value multiplied by 7.96% (usually this is about 40%).  For commercial properties it was 29%.

So in Jax I believe the millage rate is around 17 and the actual value is 40% of assessed.  $100K house would be $40K times 17/1000 = $680 tax bill.

In Denver a $100K house would $568 tax bill.

For commercial properties in Jax a $50MM office tower would have a $340,000 tax bill whereas in Denver the same tower would have a $1,033,952 tax bill (3x higher taxes on commercial properties in Denver, the bulk of the tax base).

Chicago has a similar system that probably influenced the Denver system whereby commercial properties are penalized much more than residential properties (has a lot to do with politics and voting, it's kind of corrupt).  Anyway, long story short is that Denver is investing BILLIONS of dollars more than Jacksonville into itself in transit alone and that money is coming from somewhere.

what is the "river" that people are playing in there?  Don't know if that is man made or what

That's the South Platte River.  It's natural.

I don't know of any pedestrian bridge of that scale in Jax.

The Northbank Riverwalk has a fabulous pedestrian bridge, at least it did this weekend when I was walking on it.

It's also nice to see people actually riding buses. I know they get a bit of a bad rap on this forum sometimes and it's great to show how they can form part of a complete transit solution.

It doesn't have to be a buses OR rail conversation. It can (and should be) both.

Quote from: CG7 on September 10, 2012, 02:36:10 PM
I don't know of any pedestrian bridge of that scale in Jax.

The Northbank Riverwalk has a fabulous pedestrian bridge, at least it did this weekend when I was walking on it.

You're right, but structural elements aside, I don't consider the bridge over the train tracks to be a very good example of a pedestrian bridge.  I know this isn't fair, but I was think something more along the lines of the bridge in London over the Thames.

Quote from: Captain Zissou on September 10, 2012, 03:18:44 PM

Quote from: CG7 on September 10, 2012, 02:36:10 PM
I don't know of any pedestrian bridge of that scale in Jax.

The Northbank Riverwalk has a fabulous pedestrian bridge, at least it did this weekend when I was walking on it.

You're right, but structural elements aside, I don't consider the bridge over the train tracks to be a very good example of a pedestrian bridge.  I know this isn't fair, but I was think something more along the lines of the bridge in London over the Thames.

This one?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Bridge_%28London%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Bridge_%28London%29)

That's the one.  Again, not the most fair bridge to compare to Jax, but I'm sure Lake knows some from smaller markets.

The bridge pictured in the Denver story reminds me of the artist's rendering of a pedestrian bridge in the story about Arlington that ran recently on the site. I think maybe that was a bridge over a busy road.

Sundial Bridge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundial_Bridge_at_Turtle_Bay)

Redding, CA

(http://www.mcconnellfoundation.org/files/sundial_aerial.jpg)

Pedestrian and bike bridge.

^Nice!

Great article. I spend a week or so a year snowboarding in Colorado and stay with a friend in Denver for a few days when I'm there. Great city and only getting better. I know quite a few people who have moved out there and even more who want to. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that barring something crazy happening, Denver will be a major US city by about 2030 and by major I mean one of the great American cities (NYC, LA, Chicago, San Fran, Boston). Its quite simply one of the most livable places in the US due to the natural beauty and countless outdoor recreational opportunities. Not to mention great beer, good food, an educated/progressive population, and geographic advantages. Its about 800 miles to the nearest major city (Dallas) and there are very few mid level cities nearby either. This makes Denver the defacto regional office for a lot of companies, airlines, banks, etc. Its also the gateway to the millions of tourists who visit the mountains year round. DIA is the 11th busiest airport in the US. Point being Denver has a lot of advantages over Jax.

That said...like the article shows, we can learn a lot from Denver. FOR ONE, we can learn that breweries can create a great deal of vibrancy downtown. Wynkoop brewery was a major catalyst in the revitalization of LoDo back in 1988. It makes me sick to my stomach that the powers that be in this city are so blind that they can't see that Intuition would be a major spark downtown.

Unfortunately, I've gotta run, but I'll try to share more thoughts on Denver later.

Quote from: Adam W on September 10, 2012, 02:49:26 PM
It's also nice to see people actually riding buses. I know they get a bit of a bad rap on this forum sometimes and it's great to show how they can form part of a complete transit solution.

It doesn't have to be a buses OR rail conversation. It can (and should be) both.

Luckily this site has never promoted the elimination of bus service in favor of a rail only based mass transit system.  Any rail spine will only be as successful as the network of local bus lines that feed it.  However, when it comes to stimulating transit oriented development along transit corridors, you're not going to get that economic benefit with buses only.  That's a major point we try to stress here that most Jaxsons tend to overlook when discussing mass transit.

Quote from: thelakelander on September 10, 2012, 09:11:20 PM

Quote from: Adam W on September 10, 2012, 02:49:26 PM
It's also nice to see people actually riding buses. I know they get a bit of a bad rap on this forum sometimes and it's great to show how they can form part of a complete transit solution.

It doesn't have to be a buses OR rail conversation. It can (and should be) both.

Luckily this site has never promoted the elimination of bus service in favor of a rail only based mass transit system.  Any rail spine will only be as successful as the network of local bus lines that feed it.  However, when it comes to stimulating transit oriented development along transit corridors, you're not going to get that economic benefit with buses only.  That's a major point we try to stress here that most Jaxsons tend to overlook when discussing mass transit.

Pretty much the only time I ever use the bus is to get to/from fixed-rail stations. If there weren't buses, I wouldn't walk more than a half mile or so to get to/from a station (probably just drive direct to destination) and if there wasn't fixed-rail, I'd never get on a bus (cheaper to walk if it's close, easier to drive if it's not).

Quote from: Captain Zissou on September 10, 2012, 03:34:50 PM
That's the one.  Again, not the most fair bridge to compare to Jax, but I'm sure Lake knows some from smaller markets.

Northbank Riverwalk (this is probably the best pedestrian bridge we have in town)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Events/Riverside-Arts-Market-RAM/P1210422/505199475_FqTTd-M.jpg)

Some examples in other communities:

Greenville, SC
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-4145-p1070124.JPG)

Milwaukee
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1231168107_SRKGd-M.jpg)

Kansas City
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/968123613_wMdxA-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Kansas-City-August-2010/P1380432/968121301_9PWZf-M.jpg)


Akron
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/592006974_stgsB-M.jpg)

Nashville
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/563005964_yyU5Q-M.jpg)

Providence
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-5988-p1120388.JPG)

Hartford
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-6088-p1120736.JPG)

Fort Wayne
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-4794-ftwayne-headwaters-greenway.jpg)

Chattanooga
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-3289-p1060403.JPG)

Jacksonville - would have made for a nice a pretty cool pedestrian/transit bridge or sculpture.
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-1271-acostabridge-1987.jpg)

Quote from: Captain Zissou on September 10, 2012, 03:18:44 PM

Quote from: CG7 on September 10, 2012, 02:36:10 PM
I don't know of any pedestrian bridge of that scale in Jax.

The Northbank Riverwalk has a fabulous pedestrian bridge, at least it did this weekend when I was walking on it.

You're right, but structural elements aside, I don't consider the bridge over the train tracks to be a very good example of a pedestrian bridge.  I know this isn't fair, but I was think something more along the lines of the bridge in London over the Thames.

Had to smile at this one Captain, the bridge in Denver IS over the railroad and light rail, in fact the photos of the multi-modal station area were taken from this same bridge. So if we are comparing apples to apples, our pedestrian bridge could be just a cool if we'd lose the chain link and go for a vinyl coated decorative material.  Jacksonville's failure in many of these areas is the exact attention to detail seen in the Denver piece.

Anyone recall the hanging baskets that DVI or some such agency placed around downtown? You can buy them at Wal-Mart and the flowers, unmaintained didn't fare too well in our summer heat. A quality nursery supplier could have helped not only with a better looking basket, but plants that could take the abuse of being over a steaming sidewalk. Denver has flowers hanging, in pots, balconies and anywhere else they could find a place to put them, but they are of a much grander scale, they scream beauty and attention.

^Somebody is definitely maintaining those, which is another huge problem we have locally.  I went to an Urban Core CPAC meeting today and someone referred to several Northside parks like J.P. Small Park as "Disney World-like" places, in terms of maintenance and upkeep.  While I agree that J.P. Small Park is one of Jax's better maintained parks, even it pales in comparison in terms of what most cities are doing with their parks these days. 

Quite frankly, what's shown in these Denver images looks pretty pristine to me.  Not only is there money and real design being thought into them, maintenance looks to be routine and up to snuff.

I can vouch that quite a few cities do plantings very well and maintain them.  There are examples in the South I dare not mention that at minimum rival Denver in this one regard.  Jacksonville actually has a great environment for potted plants and really should take advantage.  Some of the most beautiful gardens in the city belong to homeowners in the Ortega neighborhood, and these homeowners are able to grow beautiful tropical AND northern plants, along with roses, which simply can't be done in most of FL without incredible care/maintenance/skill.

The city should take advantage of its rather unique climate, but it doesn't. :\

Really with every one of these photo tours we are all able to pick out so many great ideas and things being implemented elsewhere with not one being implemented in Jacksonville.  Not one.  The city is literally not doing one thing right.  I sent that FBC YouTube video around to some folks this morning and inquired about the parking garage to one.  It's incredible how pervertedly backwards Jax is.  Why am I still hung up on it??

Quote from: thelakelander on September 10, 2012, 09:11:20 PM

Quote from: Adam W on September 10, 2012, 02:49:26 PM
It's also nice to see people actually riding buses. I know they get a bit of a bad rap on this forum sometimes and it's great to show how they can form part of a complete transit solution.

It doesn't have to be a buses OR rail conversation. It can (and should be) both.

Luckily this site has never promoted the elimination of bus service in favor of a rail only based mass transit system.  Any rail spine will only be as successful as the network of local bus lines that feed it.  However, when it comes to stimulating transit oriented development along transit corridors, you're not going to get that economic benefit with buses only.  That's a major point we try to stress here that most Jaxsons tend to overlook when discussing mass transit.

I know that and didn't mean to imply it was Metro Jacksonville's editorial stance. I was referring to people posting on the forum. And I was mainly referring to people like that guy in Tampa who seemed to think it had to be buses OR rail, but not both - as if you had to decide which one you wanted to use and then you were locked into that form of transit exclusively.

Some really nice photos!!

The city should take advantage of its rather unique climate, but it doesn't. :\

+1.  Stop planting South Florida native Palms everywhere, and plant some Live Oaks and make more places look like Hemming Plaza.

Hemming's tree cover is one of the best features in the Northbank. Unfortunately, some want to cut the trees down in Hemming.  They believe this is a way to reduce crime and encourage vagrants to not want to spend as much time in the park.

Quote from: vicupstate on September 11, 2012, 08:33:10 AM
The city should take advantage of its rather unique climate, but it doesn't. :\

+1.  Stop planting South Florida native Palms everywhere, and plant some Live Oaks and make more places look like Hemming Plaza.

I believe the oaks in Jacksonville's urban neighborhoods were planted during the developments, so that may not be the natural landscape of downtown/urban core. I'd imagine that prior to settlement, the banks of DT Jax looked similar to Exchange Island which is covered with some beautiful palms.  Anyone know?

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-sep-urban-parks-exchange-club-island

Back to Denver...the photo essay shows a lot of the 16th street Mall, but you can't really tell how vibrant the rest of DT/LoDo is. Pretty sure most of the bars/restaurant/clubs are on the roads that intersect 16th. There is also a beautiful block or two long stretch of string lights in an upscale shopping/dining area.  Pretty sure I have a picture or two at home that I'll try to upload later. Ock, did you catch a glimpse of it? I've always thought that string lights would be a great investment for DT. Maybe on Laura or somewhere in the Bay/Adams/Forsyth area.

palms have always been a part of the landscape in jax, especially from the river east.

The best way to find out what Jacksonville's native landscape should be is to spend a day or two hiking around Dee Dot ranch.  They have hundreds of acres of undisturbed and unsettled old Florida landscapes.  Along the water you'll find cypress, palm, and pine.  Inland I'm sure you'd find a wonderful mix of trees and shrubs.  I imagine there are plenty of other examples, but this is the first that comes to mind when I think of natural Florida.

Ock, I think pedestrian bridges over railroad tracks are wonderful, I just don't love ours.  I don't like the benches every 20 feet that break up the incline.  That makes running or biking at any speed difficult.  I also don't like the spiral down the other side.  I agree that the chain link is ugly and a cheap solution, as is typical in jax.  Cables or something else would have accomplished the same thing with a much better appearance.

Quote from: Captain Zissou on September 11, 2012, 09:26:08 AM
The best way to find out what Jacksonville's native landscape should be is to spend a day or two hiking around Dee Dot ranch.  They have hundreds of acres of undisturbed and unsettled old Florida landscapes.  Along the water you'll find cypress, palm, and pine.  Inland I'm sure you'd find a wonderful mix of trees and shrubs.  I imagine there are plenty of other examples, but this is the first that comes to mind when I think of natural Florida.

Never been there, but I'll have to check it out. I think people sometimes forget how tropical Jacksonville really is because of how much development has occurred along our waterways...but virtually every undeveloped parcel along the water is covered with palms and is very tropical. From Guana River State Park to Nocatee Preserve, to the Timucuan Preserve and so on. The ocean may not be as clear up here as it is down south, but North Florida is very much old Florida in terms of landscape.

Quote from: Captain Zissou on September 11, 2012, 09:26:08 AM
The best way to find out what Jacksonville's native landscape should be is to spend a day or two hiking around Dee Dot ranch.  They have hundreds of acres of undisturbed and unsettled old Florida landscapes.  Along the water you'll find cypress, palm, and pine.  Inland I'm sure you'd find a wonderful mix of trees and shrubs.  I imagine there are plenty of other examples, but this is the first that comes to mind when I think of natural Florida.

Ock, I think pedestrian bridges over railroad tracks are wonderful, I just don't love ours.  I don't like the benches every 20 feet that break up the incline.  That makes running or biking at any speed difficult.  I also don't like the spiral down the other side.  I agree that the chain link is ugly and a cheap solution, as is typical in jax.  Cables or something else would have accomplished the same thing with a much better appearance.

I think the powers-that-be in Jax are a bit design-averse. I don't know why, but I think it's maybe fear of having another Hayden Burns Library. Don't get me wrong - I absolutely adore the building. But it's loathed by probably as many people (if not more) as those who love it. And I think it's loathed by many of those whose opinions "matter."

I remember when the new library was being designed. I think there were three or four (or possibly five) final designs to choose from. A couple of them were amazing. I recall one design was by a Scandinavian (or possibly Finnish or Icelandic) architect. There was also a Michael Graves design, which I didn't like, but his name stuck out because he had a range of housewares at Target at the time.

Anyway, instead of choosing an interesting (or daring) design, the City went with the safe route. I love the new library and think it's a great place. But I wish it was more interesting and made more of a statement. We have a lot of empty space downtown. It's practically a blank canvas. We could build some great buildings and put the City on the map for that alone.

So it doesn't surprise me they went with a boring design for that bridge. On the other hand, I'm should just be happy they built it! I love the northbank riverwalk.

Quote from: fsujax on September 11, 2012, 09:18:07 AM
palms have always been a part of the landscape in jax, especially from the river east.

Certain Palms are indeed native, but not some of the varieties that are used as 'decoration' along Riverside Ave in Brooklyn and other places, for instance.

Regardless, we are talking about an urban setting in a very hot climate, so the native trees that will provide shade should be used whenever possible. 

Dee Dot is a private property, but there are lovely pictures of it in the intuition tap room.  I may have to go by there this weekend for some 'research' of old FL.

Quote from: CityLife on September 11, 2012, 09:10:39 AM
I believe the oaks in Jacksonville's urban neighborhoods were planted during the developments, so that may not be the natural landscape of downtown/urban core. I'd imagine that prior to settlement, the banks of DT Jax looked similar to Exchange Island which is covered with some beautiful palms.  Anyone know?

Actually most of downtown is on quite a large sandhill so the oaks are native.

QuoteSandhills are upland, savanna-like habitats on gently rolling terrain with an open overstory of longleaf pines. Mixed in among the tall pines are turkey oaks and a few other hardwood species along with a groundcover of herbaceous grasses, ferns, and wildflowers.  The open canopy and grassy undergrowth give these habitats a beautiful park-like appearance. Early settlers claimed to be able to drive their wagons through acres of longleaf sandhill forests.

As early as 20 million years ago vast expanses of longleaf pines covered the coastal plains from Virginia to Florida and as far west as Eastern Texas. At one time there were an estimated 25 million hectares of longleaf forest in the Southeast. While some of this land was low-lying flatwoods much of it consisted of higher elevation sandhill ecosystems.

Most of the original longleaf forests have been replaced by pine plantations, citrus groves, rangeland, and residential and commercial development. Only a few large tracts of sandhill still exist in Florida today. The largest expanses are located in the Panhandle. Most of the sandhill habitats are small, isolated areas scattered throughout the Panhandle and northern peninsula. Only 38% of sandhill habitat in Florida is found on public lands. Most of the remaining land is privately-owned. These beautiful relics of ancient Florida offer aesthetic, environmental, and economic benefits that can not be replaced once the last stands are gone.


General Characteristics of Sandhills
Sandhills, like scrublands, are found in dry, upland areas with sandy soils and sloping terrain. While there are many similarities between the two xeric habitats sandhills are easily  distinguished by the tall, longleaf pines and open, grassy groundcover. Interspersed with the pines are turkey oaks and a few other hardwood species such as sand post oak, bluejack oak, and persimmon. Sandhills burn more frequently than scrub habitats so there are fewer woody shrubs and thickets of undergrowth in these ecosystems. The widely-spaced trees and soft groundcover make these open woodlands easily recognizable.

The soil in sandhills is deep, sandy, and well-drained but lacks distinct layers. There may be a variety of textures and types of soil as one travels to different regions within the state. Sandhills in the northern peninsula and Panhandle generally have more coarse soils with some loam and clay mixed in. As you travel farther south along the ridges of the peninsula the soil is a finer texture and lacks the clay and loam. Sandhill soils range from yellowish to creamy white in color and are very permeable. They allow water and nutrients to leach out easily so the soil tends to be fairly infertile.

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2010-02-03/story/greatest_generation_of_trees_fading_in_jacksonville

Soon after World War II, a sea of oaks spread across Jacksonville's neighborhoods.

"Victory trees" handed out by a utility shaded sidewalks and yards from Avondale to Springfield and San Marco.

Now, those trees are dying of old age.

"They turned out to be water oaks or laurel oaks," said Anna Dooley, executive director for Greenscape of Jacksonville, a beautification group. "They have about a 60-year lifespan, which is where we are."

yes, they are rotting all over springfield, riverside-avondale and sadly this is what was mostly planted in Hemming Park. There is one large live oak at Hemming, though.

I just moved back to Denver from Jax.  I grew up in Denver and am still amazed by the progress this town has made.  The transit projects alone are changing the urban landscape and definitely promoting urban infill.  Thrilled to be back.

Quote from: Ocklawaha on September 11, 2012, 10:25:38 AM
Actually most of downtown is on quite a large sandhill so the oaks are native.

One rarely sees the turkey oaks mentioned in your article planted as ornamental trees, they are almost always live oaks or laurel oaks.

As far as the palms, there are a number of species native to the area, but the one most widely (and over) planted is the Sabal Palm.  However, as the climate warms, many species formerly associated with South Florida will be able to be grown here.

Cities in the South that are really leading the way with public landscaping and requirements of landlords to integrate landscaping/pedestrian experiential improvements into their footprints include Charlotte, Greenville, Raleigh and Atlanta, Jacksonville leaders need only take a 6-7 hour drive to learn from really good examples in this arena.  8 months of the year up here there are flowers blooming everywhere.  Details from a recent $6M project on a corridor downtown that finished in April:

Quote“It is absolutely gorgeous what they have done with the sidewalks,” he said. “They gave it a nice architectural flavor with some traditional nice wrought iron ornamental light posts and by planting trees and flowers in wrought iron boxes.”

Other benefits are the widened sidewalks, which give pedestrians more room to stop and wait on pedestrian signals, new and additional trash cans that encourage people not to litter, and upgraded traffic signals that make it easier and safer for walking around the area.

“Before the improvements, it was a really dirty area,” Shaw said. “When it looks clean and well taken care of it changes the image. It feels like a live-work-play environment and goes against the stigma of downtown being an unsafe place.”

Quote from: vicupstate on September 11, 2012, 08:33:10 AM
The city should take advantage of its rather unique climate, but it doesn't. :\

+1.  Stop planting South Florida native Palms everywhere, and plant some Live Oaks and make more places look like Hemming Plaza.

South Florida native palms would not even survive the winter here in Jax!

Might I add that a mere thousands spent by the downtown BID to install planters in wrought iron beds along the street on a heavily trafficed and pedestrian intense corridor has killed many birds with one stone:

1) separated vehicular/bicycle traffic and pedestrian traffic by more than just curbs
1a) protected both vehicles/bikes and pedestrians by discouraging/preventing J-walking
2) improved the aesthetics of a dense/concrete area
3) made the corridor more attractive to tourists/visitors who may only see that area on their stay
4) made the corridor more attractive to local residents, workers and current/new retailers (which include CVS and Jos. A Bank)
5) made it easier for landlords and developers to push their projects and attract tenants
5a) higher rents/increased occupancy/higher pricing can only boost the tax rolls

(http://www.atlantadowntown.com/_files/images/prefered-option-to-cap.jpg)

Again easy peasy stuff for Jacksonville simply to consider and copy, but it won't.

Downtown already has a special taxing district.  Those funds however are often rolled into the general fund to make up for deficits elsewhere.  It doesn't need another taxing district.  Downtown business owners are already going to absorb a significant increase in garbage collection fees starting in October.   

Some of the fees currently levied, collected and distributed do need to be administered in a more fair way. 

^^^Well that defeats the whole purpose of a special taxing district now doesn't it?

So what you're telling me is that all the great things done in Denver and replicated to a degree in close by southeastern cities can't be done in Jacksonville?

What's the website for the oganization that runs the BID/CID for downtown Jacksonville?

It's well past time for a massive 'Better Jacksonville II,' plan to extend the tax and add a new layer. I'd peddle it with a few fixes on roads such as Blanding, the JTB flyover, etc. simply enough to kill opposition from the 'hug your car right wing'. Then focus the bulk of the improvements on fixed mass transit, streetcar, commuter rail, aerial cable tram, bus rapid transit, JRTC, a vastly improved JTA bus system, adding ticket vending machines, real time information at larger stops, and next bus I-phone/android apps. The other major investment would be in the river walks extensions and huge public QOL additions.

Quote from: Ocklawaha on September 11, 2012, 11:05:07 PM
It's well past time for a massive 'Better Jacksonville II,' plan to extend the tax and add a new layer. I'd peddle it with a few fixes on roads such as Blanding, the JTB flyover, etc. simply enough to kill opposition from the 'hug your car right wing'. Then focus the bulk of the improvements on fixed mass transit, streetcar, commuter rail, aerial cable tram, bus rapid transit, JRTC, a vastly improved JTA bus system, adding ticket vending machines, real time information at larger stops, and next bus I-phone/android apps. The other major investment would be in the river walks extensions and huge public QOL additions.

You're right, but the BJP I already takes the revenue for the next 12 or so years, if I remember correctly.  Plus the voters would never approve it.  The perception is that millions have been spent on transit, which only poor people use and to no benefit of the  other 90% of the population.   Likewise, the perception is milions have already been spent Downtown, which little to nothing to show for it.  Plus all the GOBs would profit from it. 

There's no leadershp or trust in the local government.  That is a prerequsite to passage.       

Im a recent transplant in Denver from Jax, where i grew up.  I have to say, the comparison between the two cities is night and day.  In Denver, you have an environment of constant growth and development aimed at making the city better and more attractive for businesses and individuals (ex- the large scale expansion of b-cycle, light rail, and the Union Station development, which is already 60% done).  I live downtown and take the 16th street mall bus to work, and can walk to so many restaurants and bars and football or baseball games, along with tons of other like-minded people.  In Jacksonville, my friends and i tried to go from 5 points to the Beer Fest next to the suns stadium using public transportation, which was literally impossible per the jta website. Another case in point- in Denver we have an historic trolley that runs to and from REI along the platte to the stadium during Broncos games for free. Jacksonville, are you listening?...I didn't think so.