E-mail from Town Center to store managers at Town Center received at 9am today:
To: Retail, Restaurant Managers and Outparcels
From: St. Johns Town Center Management
Subject: Nordstrom Announcement
This morning, Simon Property Group and Ben Carter Properties announced that Nordstrom will be joining the St. Johns Town Center family. The new addition will serve as the anchor of a new wing to be located in the Luxury Collection at St. Johns Town Center, between Brooks Brothers and Louis Vuitton. The new wing will open in fall 2014.
The Nordstrom wing will also include additional retail space for specialty shops. The parking lot that will be removed as a result of the new build will be replaced in what is currently grassy area behind Ethan Allen and soon-to-open Ovinte (formerly known as the Original Pancake House).
We are excited to bring Nordstrom to St. Johns Town Center and the Jacksonville market! This news is now public and feel free to share with your corporate offices.
Thank you,
Paige
PAIGE PIPER
Marketing Assistant
ST. JOHNS TOWN CENTER, Simon Property Group, Inc.
well there you go! way better than a macy's.
Nice!
Nice coup for SJTC.
There is A LOT of grass behind Ethan Allen and it is adjacent to another huge lot. All of these lots are between town center parkway and the stores themselves, which is making the SJTC less walkable by the day. I was hoping this article would be announcing the new parking garage that is in the site plan for between Barnes & Noble and Dillards. With a development this large, parking garages will pay for themselves by creating more leasable space in a smaller area.
yay shoes!
nothing on the TU's site. the business journal did post it on their facebook page.
YAY!
Very nice. I think the garage will come once the land gets more scarce.
Quote from: jcjohnpaint on September 04, 2012, 09:56:41 AM
Very nice. I think the garage will come once the land gets more scarce.
So in 2025 if the town center lasts that long?
press release:
QuoteSEATTLE, Sept. 4, 2012 /PRNewswire/ -- Seattle-based Nordstrom, Inc. (NYSE: JWN) today announced plans to open a Nordstrom full-line store at St. Johns Town Center in Jacksonville, Fla. The 124,000 square-foot store will be two levels and is expected to open in fall 2014. St. Johns Town Center was co-developed and is co-owned by Simon Property Group (NYSE: SPG) and Ben Carter Properties.
The company believes opening a Jacksonville store at the centrally-located St. Johns Town Center will put it in an ideal position to serve customers throughout the Northeast Florida region.
"We've had our eye on Jacksonville for a long time, so it's gratifying for us to now have this opportunity to open our doors at St. Johns Town Center," said Erik Nordstrom, president of stores for Nordstrom, Inc. "We're fortunate to have loyal customers in Jacksonville and excited to be able to serve them better with a store at the First Coast's top shopping destination."
Nordstrom will anchor a new wing on the southwest side of the 1.1 million square-foot, open air center. St. Johns Town Center is conveniently located off of J. Turner Butler Boulevard and I-295 with easy access from the Beaches, St. Johns River and Intracoastal Waterway areas. With 10 million visitors each year, the center is the area's premier shopping destination and features many stores that customers won't find anywhere else in Jacksonville.
"We're excited to have Nordstrom join the terrific collection of retailers and restaurants operating at St. Johns Town Center," said Richard S. Sokolov, President and Chief Operating Officer of Simon. "It will further broaden the appeal and market for this great property. We're also pleased to further expand our strong relationship with Nordstrom. This will be the 28th Nordstrom store in our regional mall portfolio."
Ben Carter Properties executives Ben Carter and Paisley Boney said, "When we first started work on St. Johns Town Center in 2003 we were hoping we could attract Nordstrom to the project and the City of Jacksonville. We are delighted they are joining the project and are excited about their impact and enhancement of fashion retail for the customers of St. Johns Town Center."
About Simon Property Group
Simon Property Group, Inc. (NYSE: SPG) is an S&P 100 company and the largest real estate company in the world. The Company currently owns or has an interest in 333 retail real estate properties in North America and Asia comprising 242 million square feet. We are headquartered in Indianapolis, Indiana and employ approximately 5,500 people in the U.S. For more information, visit the Simon Property Group website at www.simon.com.
About Ben Carter Enterprises
Ben Carter Properties, LLC (now known as Ben Carter Enterprises) has developed more than $1.1 billion, and nearly five million square feet, in retail and office projects since its inception in 1993.
About Nordstrom
Nordstrom, Inc. is one of the nation's leading fashion specialty retailers. Founded in 1901 as a shoe store in Seattle, today Nordstrom operates 231 stores in 31 states, including 117 full-line stores, 110 Nordstrom Racks, two Jeffrey boutiques, one treasure&bond store and one clearance store. Nordstrom also serves customers through Nordstrom.com and through its catalogs. Additionally, the Company operates in the online private sale marketplace through its subsidiary HauteLook. Nordstrom, Inc.'s common stock is publicly traded on the NYSE under the symbol JWN.
SOURCE Nordstrom, Inc.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on September 04, 2012, 09:49:12 AM
There is A LOT of grass behind Ethan Allen and it is adjacent to another huge lot. All of these lots are between town center parkway and the stores themselves, which is making the SJTC less walkable by the day. I was hoping this article would be announcing the new parking garage that is in the site plan for between Barnes & Noble and Dillards. With a development this large, parking garages will pay for themselves by creating more leasable space in a smaller area.
I'm hoping this will be the catalyst for parking garages too; i do remember seeing a site plan a couple of years ago for the Town Center that included a parking structure. I don't recall if it was between B&N and Dillards or if it was on the other side between Dillards and West Elm. Here's to hoping!!
I could walk to the one in Charlotte from my house, but never ventured there. All for it as they don't discount and will add to the tax base.
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-132-pic_siteplan_820_2.jpg)
It's the dashed department store space to the right (south) of Dillards in this old phase II graphic.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on September 04, 2012, 10:07:21 AM
Quote from: jcjohnpaint on September 04, 2012, 09:56:41 AM
Very nice. I think the garage will come once the land gets more scarce.
So in 2025 if the town center lasts that long?
If it lasts that long? I don't get it...
Quote from: copperfiend on September 04, 2012, 11:08:57 AM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on September 04, 2012, 10:07:21 AM
Quote from: jcjohnpaint on September 04, 2012, 09:56:41 AM
Very nice. I think the garage will come once the land gets more scarce.
So in 2025 if the town center lasts that long?
If it lasts that long? I don't get it...
In the year 2025, if the Town Center is still alive, if man can survive, we may find............
Quote from: copperfiend on September 04, 2012, 11:08:57 AM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on September 04, 2012, 10:07:21 AM
Quote from: jcjohnpaint on September 04, 2012, 09:56:41 AM
Very nice. I think the garage will come once the land gets more scarce.
So in 2025 if the town center lasts that long?
If it lasts that long? I don't get it...
Town Center will be about 22 years old then. That's post middle age for shopping malls. That will be a very crucial point in time that determines whether town center turns into Regency or something special due to smart growth planning.
I am more excited about the 'other specialty retailers' proposed in this wing.
How exciting!
From the Business Journal:
QuoteSite plan reveals more details for planned Nordstrom
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/blog/2012/09/site-plan-reveals-more-details-for.html
QuoteThe new anchor will be surrounded by about 35,000 square feet of smaller shops and the site plan names New Balance, Disney, Rosenblum's, Free People, Sperry, G by Guess and Arhaus as potential small-shop tenants.
Interesting new tenants. Disney, New Balance, and Sperry don't seem to fit with the high end nature of that end of the strip. I have no idea about the others. I hope this is a new store for Rosenblums and they that they are keeping their other two locations open.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on September 04, 2012, 11:26:08 AM
Town Center will be about 22 years old then. That's post middle age for shopping malls. That will be a very crucial point in time that determines whether town center turns into Regency or something special due to smart growth planning.
I am more excited about the 'other specialty retailers' proposed in this wing.
They'll be fine. The Avenues has been around 22 years, right? And they are adding national tenants.
If I had to guess, they have those retailers locked up; but I could see some unit swapping before this next phase is completed. I noticed an unnamed "Coffee Shop" as well. Maybe it's time for Caribou - or, better yet, BOLD BEAN!
Quote from: Captain Zissou on September 04, 2012, 05:00:10 PM
Interesting new tenants. Disney, New Balance, and Sperry don't seem to fit with the high end nature of that end of the strip. I have no idea about the others. I hope this is a new store for Rosenblums and they that they are keeping their other two locations open.
I have good information that suggests if Rosenblums moves to the Town Center, they'll be closing their San Jose Blvd store. That's unfortunate, in my opinion--I like the San Jose store. I get the feeling (because I've asked) that many won't make the trek to Rosenblums if they move to SJTC. Just not convenient.
(http://inlinethumb35.webshots.com/52194/2182577980104969885S600x600Q85.jpg)
(http://inlinethumb51.webshots.com/14962/2581166750104969885S600x600Q85.jpg)
Finally a place that could REALLY use a covered, all weather, fixed, captive, transit system... and we're all talking parking lots, grassy fields and garages. Way to go Town Center/Jacksonville, someone call me when it starts raining common sense.
The above photos (both Los Angeles area malls) prove that mall developers think (rightly so) that Jacksonville shoppers are so desperate and/or unsophisticated so as to not need or desire more amenities in their shopping experiences. In spite of Los Angles having a FAR more congenial climate for walking the mile, the malls are in a gloves off competition to the top. To our south Orlando, Miami, and of course Boca Raton, Miami, Palm Beach and Coral Springs, all have properties and tenants that blow us back to the dark ages. Darn shame there isn't a button we could push to bring things into a tighter focus.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on September 04, 2012, 07:47:57 PM
Finally a place that could REALLY use a covered, all weather, fixed, captive, transit system... and we're all talking parking lots, grassy fields and garages. Way to go Town Center/Jacksonville, someone call me when it starts raining common sense.
The above photos (both Los Angeles area malls) prove that mall developers think (rightly so) that Jacksonville shoppers are so desperate and/or unsophisticated so as to not need or desire more amenities in their shopping experiences. In spite of Los Angles having a FAR more congenial climate for walking the mile, the malls are in a gloves off competition to the top. To our south Orlando, Miami, and of course Boca Raton, Miami, Palm Beach and Coral Springs, all have properties and tenants that blow us back to the dark ages. Darn shame there isn't a button we could push to bring things into a tighter focus.
I agree with Ock. SJTC didn't have the density originally to support anything trolley wise, but now that they are adding another anchor (and room for another) perhaps a people mover should at least be considered. (not a bus driven clone)
The problem is they want to keep that tenant space price competitive. If the tenants don't want to cover a people mover in their lease agreements under their CAM allocation, then someone has to pay for it. No one is going to park at Pollo Tropical and pay $3 for a ride over to Dick's. They would rather drive around the lot for 15 minutes to avoid the cost.
Christmas traffic will be problematic, but if they add another anchor in the SE quadrant it will get pretty close to gridlock during the holiday season. They need to look at the big picture and find a way to make it easier for shoppers to find parking in a more distributed way.
I have seen 3 near accidents coming and going out of the new Daily's on Gate in just 15 minutes. That was on Labor Day, imagine what Christmas will bring.
Quote from: blizz01 on September 04, 2012, 05:07:21 PM
If I had to guess, they have those retailers locked up; but I could see some unit swapping before this next phase is completed. I noticed an unnamed "Coffee Shop" as well. Maybe it's time for Caribou - or, better yet, BOLD BEAN!
I wouldn't count on it. While I would LOVE Bold Bean (my personal favorite) or Caribou to join, it will most likely be "eBar" which is Nordstrom's own cafe/coffee shop that they operate with their stores. They're usually located adjacent to the mall entrances to their stores.
I did see that their eBar's feature local ingredients and that their menus vary by region... so at least local flavors will be represented..... hopefully...
http://shop.nordstrom.com/c/nordstrom-restaurants
I like eBar and Nordstrom's cafe. I will bet you are correct.
Quote from: JeffreyS on September 04, 2012, 10:44:40 PM
I like eBar and Nordstrom's cafe. I will bet you are correct.
Most likely since they did that with their most recent store opening in the country here in Nashville.
Congrats to Jacksonville. I still won't be able to do any decent shopping when I come home as I am a loyal Bloomie's cardholder, but it's nice to know that the city can now officially support one decent department store. Just for the record on the chain of command of the largest department stores to put things in perspective (all opinion of course):
1) Saks Fifth Ave/Neiman Marcus/Barney's New York
2) Bloomingdale's/Nordstrom/Barney's Co-op
3) Lord & Taylor/Macy's flagships
4) Dillards/Macy's/Von Maur
5) Belk/Macy's
6) JC Penney/Sears
7) Kohls
ebar is not a bad coffee shop at all and will be a good addition for the mall.
I have always thought of Neiman Marcus as being a "you have arrived" in the retail world.
Quote from: spuwho on September 04, 2012, 10:11:25 PM
Quote from: Ocklawaha on September 04, 2012, 07:47:57 PM
Finally a place that could REALLY use a covered, all weather, fixed, captive, transit system... and we're all talking parking lots, grassy fields and garages. Way to go Town Center/Jacksonville, someone call me when it starts raining common sense.
The above photos (both Los Angeles area malls) prove that mall developers think (rightly so) that Jacksonville shoppers are so desperate and/or unsophisticated so as to not need or desire more amenities in their shopping experiences. In spite of Los Angles having a FAR more congenial climate for walking the mile, the malls are in a gloves off competition to the top. To our south Orlando, Miami, and of course Boca Raton, Miami, Palm Beach and Coral Springs, all have properties and tenants that blow us back to the dark ages. Darn shame there isn't a button we could push to bring things into a tighter focus.
I agree with Ock. SJTC didn't have the density originally to support anything trolley wise, but now that they are adding another anchor (and room for another) perhaps a people mover should at least be considered. (not a bus driven clone)
The problem is they want to keep that tenant space price competitive. If the tenants don't want to cover a people mover in their lease agreements under their CAM allocation, then someone has to pay for it. No one is going to park at Pollo Tropical and pay $3 for a ride over to Dick's. They would rather drive around the lot for 15 minutes to avoid the cost.
Christmas traffic will be problematic, but if they add another anchor in the SE quadrant it will get pretty close to gridlock during the holiday season. They need to look at the big picture and find a way to make it easier for shoppers to find parking in a more distributed way.
I have seen 3 near accidents coming and going out of the new Daily's on Gate in just 15 minutes. That was on Labor Day, imagine what Christmas will bring.
I'm not going to bag on SJTC, as I think (in spite of its flaws) that it's a pretty great shopping area for Jax and certainly better than any of the other malls.....
But the traffic situation is insane. People don't even bother to observe the lights around there. It's dangerous.
They should get rid of the parking in the main walkable strip and in fact ban cars from even driving through. Place in the trolley line with 3 or so stops from one end to the other, and watch the appeal of the place grow. I ahve honestly only been to the town center maybe three times and have hated it each time.
Quote from: simms3 on September 05, 2012, 08:07:29 AM
Congrats to Jacksonville. I still won't be able to do any decent shopping when I come home as I am a loyal Bloomie's cardholder, but it's nice to know that the city can now officially support one decent department store. Just for the record on the chain of command of the largest department stores to put things in perspective (all opinion of course):
1) Saks Fifth Ave/Neiman Marcus/Barney's New York
2) Bloomingdale's/Nordstrom/Barney's Co-op
3) Lord & Taylor/Macy's flagships
4) Dillards/Macy's/Von Maur
5) Belk/Macy's
6) JC Penney/Sears
7) Kohls
Did you leave off Walmart and Dollar General on purpose?
Neiman Marcus = needless markup
Quote from: tufsu1 on September 05, 2012, 10:22:09 AM
Neiman Marcus = needless markup
their targeted demo doesn't care about markups.
Quote from: Dapperdan on September 05, 2012, 09:12:08 AM
They should get rid of the parking in the main walkable strip and in fact ban cars from even driving through. Place in the trolley line with 3 or so stops from one end to the other, and watch the appeal of the place grow. I ahve honestly only been to the town center maybe three times and have hated it each time.
What is their motivation to do so? The place is packed every day of the week. Every restaurant is full every night.
Quote from: copperfiend on September 05, 2012, 11:02:37 AM
Quote from: Dapperdan on September 05, 2012, 09:12:08 AM
They should get rid of the parking in the main walkable strip and in fact ban cars from even driving through. Place in the trolley line with 3 or so stops from one end to the other, and watch the appeal of the place grow. I ahve honestly only been to the town center maybe three times and have hated it each time.
What is their motivation to do so? The place is packed every day of the week. Every restaurant is full every night.
every night?
I really dont care for it either. Just the hassle of the traffic and parking is enough to keep me way. But there sure is some good eating out there! ;D That is the ONLY thing I go out there for to be honest.
Quote from: fsquid on September 05, 2012, 11:44:18 AM
Quote from: copperfiend on September 05, 2012, 11:02:37 AM
Quote from: Dapperdan on September 05, 2012, 09:12:08 AM
They should get rid of the parking in the main walkable strip and in fact ban cars from even driving through. Place in the trolley line with 3 or so stops from one end to the other, and watch the appeal of the place grow. I ahve honestly only been to the town center maybe three times and have hated it each time.
What is their motivation to do so? The place is packed every day of the week. Every restaurant is full every night.
every night?
Go by BJ's, Brio, Cantina Laredo, Season's 52, PF Chang's, Cheesecake Factory, Bahama Breeze, Mimi's or any other casual and above restaurant tonight and let me know.
Quote from: tufsu1 on September 05, 2012, 10:22:09 AM
Neiman Marcus = needless markup
That applies to any and all corporations flourishing today....I guess it depends how you define 'needless'....that's the deal with corporations--growth for the sake of growth (sounds sorta like a tumor, doesn't it?)....
Quote from: copperfiend on September 05, 2012, 12:34:57 PM
Quote from: fsquid on September 05, 2012, 11:44:18 AM
Quote from: copperfiend on September 05, 2012, 11:02:37 AM
Quote from: Dapperdan on September 05, 2012, 09:12:08 AM
They should get rid of the parking in the main walkable strip and in fact ban cars from even driving through. Place in the trolley line with 3 or so stops from one end to the other, and watch the appeal of the place grow. I ahve honestly only been to the town center maybe three times and have hated it each time.
What is their motivation to do so? The place is packed every day of the week. Every restaurant is full every night.
every night?
Go by BJ's, Brio, Cantina Laredo, Season's 52, PF Chang's, Cheesecake Factory, Bahama Breeze, Mimi's or any other casual and above restaurant tonight and let me know.
Wow. You managed to hit almost every one of the restaurants that I will never go to again without naming one I will go to in the future.
As far as SJTC goes, I will eat at J Alexanders, Mitchell's, Libretto's, Bento, Wasabi, Chipotle, Pei Wei, Pollo tropical, Ted's, and Chick fil a. I will eat at Capital Grille on someone else's dime and I may end up at PF Changs or Cantina Laredo again, but for those three I think you're wasting your money. For all of the others, I don't see the point in going to any of them.
Quotecentrally-located St. Johns Town Center
How do they figure that?
^By our population patterns it's probably the most centrally located shopping area at this point. There are more people on the south side of the river than the other side, and that's without St. Johns County and parts further south.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on September 05, 2012, 01:17:07 PM
Quote from: copperfiend on September 05, 2012, 12:34:57 PM
Quote from: fsquid on September 05, 2012, 11:44:18 AM
Quote from: copperfiend on September 05, 2012, 11:02:37 AM
Quote from: Dapperdan on September 05, 2012, 09:12:08 AM
They should get rid of the parking in the main walkable strip and in fact ban cars from even driving through. Place in the trolley line with 3 or so stops from one end to the other, and watch the appeal of the place grow. I ahve honestly only been to the town center maybe three times and have hated it each time.
What is their motivation to do so? The place is packed every day of the week. Every restaurant is full every night.
every night?
Go by BJ's, Brio, Cantina Laredo, Season's 52, PF Chang's, Cheesecake Factory, Bahama Breeze, Mimi's or any other casual and above restaurant tonight and let me know.
Wow. You managed to hit almost every one of the restaurants that I will never go to again without naming one I will go to in the future.
As far as SJTC goes, I will eat at J Alexanders, Mitchell's, Libretto's, Bento, Wasabi, Chipotle, Pei Wei, Pollo tropical, Ted's, and Chick fil a. I will eat at Capital Grille on someone else's dime and I may end up at PF Changs or Cantina Laredo again, but for those three I think you're wasting your money. For all of the others, I don't see the point in going to any of them.
That's great. But plenty of people do.
It's sort of funny and predictable how every thread about the SJTC disolves into the same thing. They're never building a trolly, they're probably not building a parking garage any time soon. The main reason for both is they don't have to.
Quote from: Tacachale on September 05, 2012, 01:46:44 PM
^By our population patterns it's probably the most centrally located shopping area at this point. There are more people on the south side of the river than the other side, and that's without St. Johns County and parts further south.
Not just that. It's pretty much the center point of the middle and upper income parts of the Jax metro area that comprise most of the SJTC's shoppers.
I'll rip on the SJTC's numerous design flaws and missed opportunities till I can't talk anymore, but can't really fault their location. Especially when you consider the costs of land and proximity to UNF.
Quote from: ben says on September 05, 2012, 12:47:05 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on September 05, 2012, 10:22:09 AM
Neiman Marcus = needless markup
That applies to any and all corporations flourishing today....
maybe so, but the alliteration/initials don't work as well for others
Quote from: copperfiend on September 05, 2012, 01:52:51 PM
It's sort of funny and predictable how every thread about the SJTC disolves into the same thing. They're never building a trolly, they're probably not building a parking garage any time soon. The main reason for both is they don't have to.
NO KIDDING! We get it people... yes, you think the Town Center sucks because it isn't downtown; yes, you think the town center sucks because the traffic can be insane at times; yes, you think the town center sucks because people won't tolerate walking from a distant parking spot into a structure where they'll be walking anyways...
The sad thing is, if the town center were surrounded by parking structures in the middle of downtown, with a trolley service to move lazy people from one end to the other, and there was a light rail station, tram station, and a skyway station to bring people in, people would still complain about something...
There's just no pleasing some.
Quote from: finehoe on September 05, 2012, 01:32:39 PM
Quotecentrally-located St. Johns Town Center
How do they figure that?
with maps of median incomes and a compass?
Quote from: simms3 on September 05, 2012, 08:07:29 AM
Congrats to Jacksonville. I still won't be able to do any decent shopping when I come home as I am a loyal Bloomie's cardholder, but it's nice to know that the city can now officially support one decent department store. Just for the record on the chain of command of the largest department stores to put things in perspective (all opinion of course):
1) Saks Fifth Ave/Neiman Marcus/Barney's New York
2) Bloomingdale's/Nordstrom/Barney's Co-op
3) Lord & Taylor/Macy's flagships
4) Dillards/Macy's/Von Maur
5) Belk/Macy's
6) JC Penney/Sears
7) Kohls
ebar is not a bad coffee shop at all and will be a good addition for the mall.
Neiman Marcus has a store in Austin, TX
Sac's 5Th Avenue has one in Tulsa and another in OKC, OK
Nordstroms has one in Nashville, TN
So really? Jacksonville can only support one store? Give me a break, our population is now large enough to support the whole shelf of stores... HOWEVER, the mall that contains most of them needs to be adjacent to I-95, probably south of I-295. With the amount of out-of-state cars and trucks roaring south from points unknown, we should be a stellar location.
'MAKE NO LITTLE PLANS.'
On a side note, San Antonio has a Neiman Marcus (mall) right next to Six Flags Fiesta Texas. You can see it from the lift hill of the rollercoaster Superman Krypton Coaster (awesome coaster) which is pretty cool.
Just because Jacksonville has a certain population does not mean it can support a certain department store or that a department store will come here. In addition to population, population density, access, income, disposable income, regionalism, competition, and cotenancy, I'm sure a department store spends a lot of time studying shopping habits of locals before racing to conclusions based on numbers on paper.
In general outside of Miami/S FL shopping habits of southerners indicate much more frugality as compared to those in TX, the West Coast and the NE. The biggest and best city outside of Miami for shopping in the SE is Atlanta, obviously, and it only has 1 Saks (reported to be 2nd highest volume Saks though), 1 Neiman, 1 Bloomingdales (the other closed), and 2 Nordstroms. Of course SoFla has many of each, but is a different market, but if a traditional southern city 4+ times the size of Jax with 5+ times the wealth can really only support 1 of each, it would not make sense that Jacksonville can really support more than a single Nordstrom at this point.
And when one visits or looks at other smaller markets like Richmond, Birmingham, Charlotte, Nashville, Tulsa, OKC, SLC, Indianapolis, KC, etc etc it is abundantly clear what "side of the tracks" people live on. Half of the metro will be desolate and poor, and across the fault line the other half will be like old PVB, but with 10x the land mass. The only general area that remotely resembles the "right" side of town in Jacksonville is Ponte Vedra Beach, which is 25,000 people and limited access and no centrality.
The city is so checkerboard and divided by large bodies of water and swampland it is hard to assemble wealth and create a truly "nice side of town" where high end retailers and department stores would feel right at home. SJTC is a miracle of assembly and the whole premise is that it serves all of NE FL, not the "wealthy SS" et al like Southpark serves the wealthy SS of Charlotte or Phipps serves the wealthy Buckhead/northside of Atlanta or Mall at Green Hills serves the wealthy SS of Nashville.
Also count the # of Walmarts in metro Jax. I believe there may be as many if not more than in metro Atlanta, no joke. While Atlanta is a horrible retail market as compared to Boston, SF, Miami or Dallas, it is still not considered a Walmart town, whereas Jax has that reputation in retail world and it shows in the number of discount stores across town (especially per capita).
Quote from: simms3 on September 05, 2012, 07:47:52 PM
Also count the # of Walmarts in metro Jax. I believe there may be as many if not more than in metro Atlanta, no joke.
based on the wal-mart website, there are 20 within the close-in ATL metro area...Jax. also has 20, but that counts stores in St. Augustine, Yulee, Baldwin, and Starke
maybe as a proportion of pop.
Quote from: tufsu1 on September 05, 2012, 09:02:00 PM
Quote from: simms3 on September 05, 2012, 07:47:52 PM
Also count the # of Walmarts in metro Jax. I believe there may be as many if not more than in metro Atlanta, no joke.
based on the wal-mart website, there are 20 within the close-in ATL metro area...Jax. also has 20, but that counts stores in St. Augustine, Yulee, Baldwin, and Starke
maybe as a proportion of pop.
Since you started this and I was making a separate point about the disbursement of positive demographics in the city, here is the official breakdown:
15 in Duval
3 in Clay
2 in Nassau
1 in SJC
1 in Baker
22 total in metro Jax
5 in Fulton and 1 express
10 in Clayton/south metro counties
11 in Cobb/west metro counties
4 in far north metro
14 in Gwinnett/NE metro
6 in Dekalb/SE metro
50 total in metro Atlanta and 1 express
Jacksonville MSA: 1,360,251 Atlanta MSA: 5,359,205 (3.94x the size of Jax, only 2.27x as many Walmarts)
Both are Walmart cities compared to many of the coastal cities and Chicago/Dallas, but Jacksonville is recognized universally as a Walmart city and it's taking a Herculean effort by the team at SJTC to reverse that image and attract the retailers it does. One has to give them (Ben Carter, Simon, their LL rep, Nordstrom tenant rep) major props for getting the job done and putting faith in the market and building a department store in an area that does not check that many boxes.
Thank you for injecting some irrelevant statistical mystification into this thread. I was beginning to worry there wouldn't be enough of it.
I don't think that Jax is some how 'over-laden' with Wal-Marts. Just because a city have a 'supposed' high number of Wal-Marts, that doesn't take away any future high end department stores. Jax has a monstrous city limits square footage compared to most cities, so that has to be taken into consideration. Look at the Northside, an enormous area that only has two Wal-Marts. I don't think it's a big deal as long as there is demand for them, and we can support them. Of course that won't sit well with the people who have the silly religious-like bias against Wal-Mart.
Quote from: I-10east on September 05, 2012, 11:59:14 PM
I don't think that Jax is some how 'over-laden' with Wal-Marts. Just because a city have a 'supposed' high number of Wal-Marts, that doesn't take away any future high end department stores. Jax has a monstrous city limits square footage compared to most cities, so that has to be taken into consideration. Look at the Northside, an enormous area that only has two Wal-Marts. I don't think it's a big deal as long as there is demand for them, and we can support them. Of course that won't sit well with the people who have the silly religious-like bias against Wal-Mart.
There are reasons for the religious-like bias.
But it's early and I don't feel like a rant.
Those of us who don't worship at the altar of WalMart find solace in an environment that offer five of an item instead of 1000 because if you want to buy finer products you sure won't find them at ChinaMart.
I don't mind wearing the same shirt as you, but it's the other 998 that bother me. And that's just one of the 20 metro area stores we're talking about.
Perception matters. The perception of Jacksonville as a Walmart city is real and those numbers prove it. My point is that the teams that are working on SJTC are breaking the mold and convincing major retailers and now one of the top department stores to think outside of their list of boxes they usually must check to come to the city. Tired of people misintepreting everything.
If only civic leaders and the average business leader in Jacksonville had the abilities of the Ben Carter team the city would be booming. What the SJTC team has accomplished is sort of akin to what the team that brought the Super Bowl accomplished, but we need that effort and ability all across the board.
Quote from: simms3 on September 06, 2012, 09:14:15 AM
Tired of people misintepreting everything.
Welcome to the internet. :o
Simms, population density is relevant in the Atlanta vs. Jacksonville Wal Mart comparison, not just sheer population. If Atlanta's metro is more dense than Jax, there wouldn't be as many Wal Mart's per capita, even if the demographics were identical.
Also, do you know what Nordstrom's checklist looks like? I'm not so sure that we don't have the demo's to support one.
Quote from: simms3 on September 06, 2012, 09:14:15 AM
Perception matters. The perception of Jacksonville as a Walmart city is real and those numbers prove it. My point is that the teams that are working on SJTC are breaking the mold and convincing major retailers and now one of the top department stores to think outside of their list of boxes they usually must check to come to the city. Tired of people misintepreting everything.
If only civic leaders and the average business leader in Jacksonville had the abilities of the Ben Carter team the city would be booming. What the SJTC team has accomplished is sort of akin to what the team that brought the Super Bowl accomplished, but we need that effort and ability all across the board.
You are completely correct.
Nordstrom, Saks, Neiman's and Bloomingdales are stores that people will travel to visit. I know a lot of people who drive to Orlando just for a shopping day at these stores. Our market also draws from Amelia, St Simons, Sea Island and to a lesser degree Savannah. Oh and Gainesville.
Granted they are not "WalMart," but their prices are not out of reach for everyone.
And don't forget that Jacobson's did really well here and some their merchandise was in a similar price range.
I had a friend who was an executive with Jacobson's and he said if all the stores did as well as the Jacksonville store they would have survived.
Can we get a K-Mart & Target comparison too, please? Because I simply didn't realize that I lived in a Wal-Mart city. Seriously, did you make that up? All this time I thought that we lived in a Waffle House city.
Quote from: blizz01 on September 06, 2012, 10:56:15 AM
Can we get a K-Mart & Target comparison too, please? Because I simply didn't realize that I lived in a Wal-Mart city. Seriously, did you make that up? All this time I thought that we lived in a Waffle House city.
Or a Mattress Store city... Seriously, is there any need to have 5 different mattress stores within a mile of each other?
Blizz, Atlanta would be a Waffle House city, they are based in Norcross, when I lived there I had three on my one street alone!
I bet you that the mileage between Wal-Marts in Jax is identical to many metro areas across the country. Jacksonvillians are so fascinated with the stupid lowly self-perceived 'hillbilly image". Remember the Super Bowl in Jax, when some national hack said that we have more Waffle Houses than any city (or something along those lines) well turns out the Washington DC has more Waffle Houses than Jax; Does that make DC a hick city? Gimme a damn break with the stupid playing it down BS. Just because we don't have a large top tier department store like Neiman, or Saks (which we don't have the demo population for yet, but persistently argue anyway) that don't make us a freaking low class city. Between Jax and St Auggie there is plenty of decent shopping. So cry me an effing river.
yeah!!! Nordstroms!!!!! I never doubted it for a second. Well, maybe a second, but i knew we could do it.
Quote from: I-10east on September 06, 2012, 05:29:46 PM
I bet you that the mileage between Wal-Marts in Jax is identical to many metro areas across the country. Jacksonvillians are so fascinated with the stupid lowly self-perceived 'hillbilly image". Remember the Super Bowl in Jax, when some national hack said that we have more Waffle Houses than any city (or something along those lines) well turns out the Washington DC has more Waffle Houses than Jax; Does that make DC a hick city? Gimme a damn break with the stupid playing it down BS. Just because we don't have a large top tier department store like Neiman, or Saks (which we don't have the demo population for yet, but persistently argue anyway) that don't make us a freaking low class city. Between Jax and St Auggie there is plenty of decent shopping. So cry me an effing river.
Sure we have the demographic for Neiman Marcus, or Saks 5Th Avenue, or Macy's, or Ikea, or Bass Pro, or ANY OTHER STORE THAT DESIRES TO LOCATE HERE. We are around 1.4 million persons strong and our income is in the upper 150 of 500 Florida places. St. Johns County is number 8 in income, so Wal-Marts or not, we are actually among the best paid and best educated places in the State of Florida.
HERE ARE SOME OF THE RANKINGS:
# Location (# Zip Codes) City Report Population Avg. Income/H/hold National Rank
6. Key Biscayne, Florida (1) 10,513 $86,244.00 #402
7. Palm Beach, Florida (1) 11,200 $84,191.00 #440
8. Saint Johns, Florida (1) 18,063 $80,945.00 #537
25. Marco Island, Florida (1) 15,213 $59,615.00 #2,240
26. Boca Raton, Florida (9) Avg. Income/H/hold in Boca Raton, FL 207,845 $59,600.56 #2,244
43. Orange Park, Florida (2) Avg. Income/H/hold in Orange Park, FL 70,562 $52,624.00 #3,571
52. Fernandina Beach, Florida (1) 24,786 $51,096.00 #4,040
64. Sarasota, Florida (13) Avg. Income/H/hold in Sarasota, FL 219,458 $48,244.92 #5,012
66. Jacksonville Beach, Florida (1) 23,900 $48,157.00 #5,042
68. Fort Lauderdale, Florida (29) Avg. Income/H/hold in Fort Lauderdale, FL 731,776 $47,653.69 #5,235
91. Orlando, Florida (30) Avg. Income/H/hold in Orlando, FL 698,916 $44,039.63 #6,883
93. Green Cove Springs, Florida (1) 19,272 $43,914.00 #6,933
96. Callahan, Florida (1) 11,408 $43,799.00 #6,991
101. Cocoa Beach, Florida (1) 14,742 $43,100.00 #7,378
109. West Palm Beach, Florida (13) Avg. Income/H/hold in West Palm Beach, FL 322,940 $42,323.31 #7,821
111. Saint Augustine, Florida (4) Avg. Income/H/hold in Saint Augustine, FL 71,339 $42,217.75 #7,901
116. Nocatee, Florida (1) 245 $41,806.00 #8,221
117. Fort Myers, Florida Avg. Income/H/hold in Fort Myers, FL 177,631 $41,788.63 #8,225
119. Glen Saint Mary, Florida (1) 6,139 $41,647.00 #8,332
120. Winter Garden, Florida (1) 22,779 $41,592.00 #8,370
121. Yulee, Florida (1) 10,545 $41,567.00 #8,380
131. Kissimmee, Florida (7) Avg. Income/H/hold in Kissimmee, FL 134,145 $40,705.71 #9,037
146. Jacksonville, Florida (31) Avg. Income/H/hold in Jacksonville, FL 723,960 $39,881.35 #9,719149. Macclenny, Florida (1) 11,087 $39,771.00 #9,802
150. Miami, Florida (55) Avg. Income/H/hold in Miami, FL 1,567,681 $39,769.65 #9,804
152. Keystone Heights, Florida (1) 11,709 $39,748.00 #9,827
156. Hilliard, Florida (1) 8,086 $39,306.00 #10,152
160. Tampa, Florida (27) Avg. Income/H/hold in Tampa, FL 636,151 $39,143.52 #10,266
196. Winter Haven, Florida (3) Avg. Income/H/hold in Winter Haven, FL 82,019 $36,806.67 #12,285
203. Miami Beach, Florida (5) Avg. Income/H/hold in Miami Beach, FL 109,052 $36,537.50 #12,552
208. Saint Petersburg, Florida (16) Avg. Income/H/hold in Saint Petersburg, FL 348,636 $36,280.38 #12,800
210. Tallahassee, Florida 8 Avg. Income/H/hold in Tallahassee, FL 239,849 $36,201.25 #12,946
223. Flagler Beach, Florida (1) 6,774 $35,515.00 #13,754
290. Starke, Florida (1) 16,003 $32,045.00 #17,440
295. Gainesville, Florida (9) Avg. Income/H/hold in Gainesville, FL 177,729 $31,825.33 #17,710
I-10 East, for the love of Pete, it's not Jacksonvillians, it's JAXSONS. That is the correct and historic word for the citizens of Jacksonville, thus we have things like a cat named Jaxson-de-Ville.
Site work approved for Nordstrom wing at St. Johns Town CenterQuoteThe City has approved the site-work permit to make way for fashion retailer Nordstrom and two other buildings at the St. Johns Town Center, creating a new wing to the Southside shopping center.
A permit application shows 9.9 acres will be cleared at 4835 Town Center Crossing. St. Johns Town Center is at Butler Boulevard and the Interstate 295 East Beltway.
Plans show the site as Phase 3 of the center.
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=539305
A Microsoft store is coming to the SJTC.
www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=539346
Quote from: I-10east on April 29, 2013, 08:00:10 PM
A Microsoft store is coming to the SJTC.
www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=539346
Whoa! That's pretty cool.
St. Johns Town Center manager expects fall announcements for Phase 3 Jacksonville stores
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=539547
went to the Microsoft store in Orlando at Florida Mall last week. Looks just like Apple. Nice store though.
The daily record article says that a portion of the new shops will be 2 story, in addition to the 2 story Nordstrom. On the Markets at Town Center siteplan (the regional map under tenant info on the website) it shows that the potential phase 4 of the towncenter would mirror phase 3 on the eastern side of phase 2. There are 3 "permissible parking structures" shown on the siteplan.
Nordstrom phase broke ground today. It will be a pedestrian only wing.
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2013/06/03/st-johns-town-centers-phase-iii.html
QuotePhase III constuction begins June 3, 2013. The new wing will house eight additional stores and Northeast Florida’s only Nordstrom. The Phase III wing will be located on the southwest end of the property between Louis Vuitton and Brooks Brothers and will feature more than 158,000 square feet of retail space. The anticipated opening for the new wing is October 3, 2014.
New surface lots will be added during the construction as well bringing an additional 600 parking spaces in new surface lots located behind Ethan Allen and Ovinte, along Big Island Drive and in the East parking lot. The new parking areas are expected to open in phases with the first new parking lot opening in early October 2013. All new parking lots will be completed by November 15 in time for holiday shopping.
We understand that the construction of the new wing will present challenges for our customers and apologize for the convenience. We look forward to bringing Nordstrom to Jacksonville in 2014!
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/944568_10151638564757241_959633123_n.jpg)
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/992774_10151638564852241_574379593_n.jpg)
http://www.simon.com/mall/st-johns-town-center/stream/phase-iii-and-nordstrom-construction-512989
That's great news. Now hope fully one day we'll get a Macy's here soon...hopefully they put one in Avenues or Regency (wishful thinking)
Quote from: blizz01 on September 04, 2012, 04:47:16 PM
The new anchor will be surrounded by about 35,000 square feet of smaller shops and the site plan names New Balance, Disney, Rosenblum's, Free People, Sperry, G by Guess and Arhaus as potential small-shop tenants.
Arhaus Furniture is set to open 2014 at the SJTC.
www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=540319
www.arhaus.com