We already figured it, but here it is.
Quote
IKEA expands in South Florida, but when will it come to Jacksonville?
Jacksonville Business Journal by Ashley Gurbal Kritzer, Reporter
Date: Friday, August 24, 2012, 8:15am EDT - Last Modified: Friday, August 24, 2012, 9:51am EDT
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South Florida Business Journal
IKEA USA will not be expanding in Jacksonville any time soon.
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Ashley Gurbal Kritzer
Reporter- Jacksonville Business Journal
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The South Florida Business Journal’s report that IKEA USA will build a second store in the Miami area â€" 40 miles from an existing store â€" begged the question: When will the Swedish home goods mega-retailer open a Jacksonville store?
For Swedish meatball and lingonberry enthusiasts, the answer is unfortunate: Not any time soon.
Joseph Roth, a spokesman for IKEA USA, said he noticed posts on Facebook asking “What about Jacksonville?†when the Miami plans were announced.
“Basically it comes down to population size, and you tend to need approx 2 million people within a 40 to 60-mile radius or trade area,†Roth said. “And you guys aren’t there yet.â€
That’s the biggest deciding factor in the store’s expansion plans.
“If you don’t have population size, you don’t really get to the second point,†he said. “It’s basically our stores are so large, they’re very expensive to build and need lots of customers to support them.â€
There will now be four IKEA stores between Orlando and Miami: IKEA Orlando, IKEA Tampa, IKEA Sunrise, which is north of Miami, and the new IKEA Miami, to be built in Sweetwater.
“We get inquiries from developers and brokers all the time from Jacksonville, and they say, ‘What can we do?’†Roth said. “Well, double your population. It’s nothing personal. We recognize we have many customers up there, but not enough to support a large IKEA store.â€
Administrator's notice: Thread title changed from "Ikea wont expand in Jacksonville due to population" to "Ikea coming to Jacksonville".
Now that's a reality check!
Never have gotten the appeal of IKEA. The few things we have from there are pretty shit. Only thing worth a damn was a flower light for my kid's bedroom
That's a shame, but I guess it make sense. Or cents ::)
Jax metro might have a decent population, but the population density is pretty low (for a city of its size). I remember driving to Atlanta just to get cheap IKEA furniture. I think Orlando must be a big improvement, by comparison.
Quote from: fsquid on August 27, 2012, 06:42:52 AM
Never have gotten the appeal of IKEA. The few things we have from there are pretty shit. Only thing worth a damn was a flower light for my kid's bedroom
Their lights are the best things they have, usually. Some of the only stuff they sell that's not made of particleboard or MDF or whatever you call it.
I think the appeal of IKEA is that it's cheap and stylish - you can get furniture that looks good for very little money. It won't last, though - and your apartment will look like everyone else's. They do also have higher-end stuff (I think it's their Stockholm range) that's well made, using cutting-edge materials like actual wood.
Quote from: fsquid on August 27, 2012, 06:42:52 AM
Never have gotten the appeal of IKEA. The few things we have from there are pretty shit. Only thing worth a damn was a flower light for my kid's bedroom
Agree.
Went there to get a bed last year. When it was all said and done, I spent about the same as I would have spent buying a bed from any other store, except with IKEA I had to haul everything home, put it together, and it fell apart about 8 months later. Particle board crap.
Quote from: Adam W on August 27, 2012, 06:45:21 AM
That's a shame, but I guess it make sense. Or cents ::)
Jax metro might have a decent population, but the population density is pretty low (for a city of its size). I remember driving to Atlanta just to get cheap IKEA furniture. I think Orlando must be a big improvement, by comparison.
Jax is and has always been a second tier metropolitan area by population. We tend to think we a larger than what we really our because we've essentially annexed all of our inner ring suburbs. However, there are some exceptions to IKEA's "2 million" rule in the south.
Largest Metropolitan Statistical Areas in the South by 2011 Population 1. Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, TX - 6,526,548**
2. Houston-Sugar Land-Baytown, TX - 6,086,538**
3. Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV - 5,703,948**
4. Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Pompano Beach, FL - 5,670,125**
5. Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Marietta, GA - 5,359,205**
6. Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, FL - 2,824,724**
7. San Antonio-New Braunfels, TX - 2,194,927
8. Orland-Kissimmee-Sanford, FL - 2,171,360**
Not There Yet 9. Charlotte-Gastonia-Rock Hill, NC-SC - 1,795,472**
10. Austin-Round Rock-San Marcos, TX - 1,783,519**
11. Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News, VA-NC - 1,679,894
12. Nashville-Davidson-Murfreesboro-Franklin, TN - 1,617,142
13. Jacksonville, FL - 1,360,25114. Memphis, TN - 1,325,605
15. Louisville, KY - 1,294,849
16. Richmond, VA - 1,269,380
17. New Orleans-Metairie-Kenner, LA - 1,191,089
18. Raleigh-Cary, NC - 1,163,515
19. Birmingham-Hoover, AL - 1,132,264
20. Baton Rouge, LA - 808,242
**- Has an existing Ikea
Who cares. What is the big deal about this place? We need to double our population? Charlotte and Austin are not double our population according to the numbers above.
QuoteWho cares. What is the big deal about this place? We need to double our population? Charlotte and Austin are not double our population according to the numbers above.
I am sure the PARKING NAZIs care, they want to know the number of parking spaces and whether IKEA would use adopted construction more than what business IKEA could and would bring to our great city. Love the priorities of some here.
FSUJAX - I agree, who really cares, their loss as far as I am concerned.
Quote from: fsujax on August 27, 2012, 08:19:25 AM
Who cares. What is the big deal about this place? We need to double our population? Charlotte and Austin are not double our population according to the numbers above.
They aren't solely looking at metro populations, but instead the trade area of a location. So you pick a spot and draw a radius around it for 40 or 60 miles. Charlotte's CSA is actually 2.6 million, so they likely easily meet the 2 million requirement.
Think about it this way, if you put an IKEA in northern St. Johns County, you could probably even get a little bit of Daytona/Ormond Beach included in the trade area.
That's a lot of CRAP from the IKEA representative.
Jacksonville has 1.3 millions PLUS surrounding countries that should be able to push and support beyond than 2 million mark which should be sufficient enough for building an IKEA store in Jacksonville! You can have people coming in from as far as from Tallahassee, Savannah, Daytona Beach, Palatka, St. Johns, Nassau, even obviously Duval.
IKEA, look closer, and you will find there are more of us than you think.
-Josh
They are a wildly successful multinational business. They didn't get that way by relying on hunches. If the data showed them they could be successful based on their business model in Jacksonville, they would open here. When the data shows them they could be successful, they will.
Hate to be a blunt realist, but that's reality.
QuoteIKEA, look closer, and you will find there are more of us than you think.
Josh - Maybe Shad Khan can help? After all, he wants to make the Jags a bigger part of his business, so why not make it so that more people come to Jax, which will lead to more stuff here.
Quote from: CityLife on August 27, 2012, 08:31:21 AM
Quote from: fsujax on August 27, 2012, 08:19:25 AM
Who cares. What is the big deal about this place? We need to double our population? Charlotte and Austin are not double our population according to the numbers above.
They aren't solely looking at metro populations, but instead the trade area of a location. So you pick a spot and draw a radius around it for 40 or 60 miles. Charlotte's CSA is actually 2.6 million, so they likely easily meet the 2 million requirement.
Think about it this way, if you put an IKEA in northern St. Johns County, you could probably even get a little bit of Daytona/Ormond Beach included in the trade area.
except Daytona is probably already counted in the Orlando IKEA store's trade area...especially after they built a store in east Tampa, which probably siphons customers from the Lakeland area
This isn't exactly news. Anyone familiar with their site criteria has known this for a very long time.
^^^Yeah, I remember this talk ad nausem, along with Saks, and other higher population stores.
no worries about parking Nazis with Ikea, they find a big piece of land and make their own place. They even built their own highway exit at the Charlotte one.
Seems like a reasonable, shockingly honest and straighforward answer. I appreciate his bluntness. If an Ikea is prohibitively expensive and cost ineffecient in a market this size, it's unwise to build here. It's not a personal affront on the city.
Quote from: tufsu1 on August 27, 2012, 09:07:57 AM
Quote from: CityLife on August 27, 2012, 08:31:21 AM
Quote from: fsujax on August 27, 2012, 08:19:25 AM
Who cares. What is the big deal about this place? We need to double our population? Charlotte and Austin are not double our population according to the numbers above.
They aren't solely looking at metro populations, but instead the trade area of a location. So you pick a spot and draw a radius around it for 40 or 60 miles. Charlotte's CSA is actually 2.6 million, so they likely easily meet the 2 million requirement.
Think about it this way, if you put an IKEA in northern St. Johns County, you could probably even get a little bit of Daytona/Ormond Beach included in the trade area.
except Daytona is probably already counted in the Orlando IKEA store's trade area...especially after they built a store in east Tampa, which probably siphons customers from the Lakeland area
I wasn't being literal. Just used that as an example of how trade areas can stretch beyond metro areas. However, Daytona is 61 miles from the Ikea in Orlando. So they likely count South/West Daytona, Deland, New Smyrna, etc in their trade zone. While we would possibly get Flagler, North Daytona, Ormond Beach, and Palatka in ours.
Not that Ikea is going after a wealthy demographic and it probably has an interesting set of boxes to check before it enters a market, population aside, but let's take a look at Jacksonville and step back here.
In some cities' cases the sum of its parts is greater than the bottom line. To the comment above, Austin may not be 2x larger than Jacksonville. Go visit. It feels 3x larger. There is spectacular wealth there. Apartments downtown are renting for what apartments along Brickell in Miami are renting for, to 25-35 year olds of course. There is UT Austin. The general population is wealthy and educated. None of this holds true for Jacksonville, which is more akin to Tulsa really (in size, too).
MetroJacksonville has analyzed metro and city densities of peer and even larger southern cities like Atlanta and found in some ways Jacksonville is denser and larger. On paper that may be true. Go visit Nashville or Charlotte and try to tell me Jacksonville is in some way larger. Those cities are easily 2x if not more larger than Jacksonville and check A LOT more boxes.
It's similar to the way Atlanta is "larger" than Boston or San Francisco where I am now, but not really. The latter two cities may have fewer people than sprawling metro Atlanta, but let's face it each is at least "2x as large". London and Chicago are equal on paper, but let's face it London's more of a peer to NYC than Chicago.
On paper maybe Jacksonville checks a few boxes (not on the wealth side as that is all spread out between river and beach and shopping habits of the wealthy in Jacksonville and actual incomes of the wealthy in Jacksonville are a lot less than the size and appearances of their houses make them appear). Anyway, so numbers get some retailers and investors to visit, but when they arrive they have to question their own numbers because the city feels soooo small and thus instincts not to invest any money override anything they find on paper.
Ok, now continue on. Ikea's not coming so what. (BTW I have been buying Ikea furniture for 6 years and have made my bed last that long with no problems - through 2 moves with deconstruction and reconstruction!)
Who cares about Ikea? If you want Ikea furniture that bad, it isn't that far to Orlando. Who wants the traffic hassles I run into in Orlando to get an Ikea?
For the first time, I went on Ikea's website and I was not very impressed. Actually I was disappointed. So them not wanting to expand here=no hurt feelings on my part
I am just shocked that 7-11 even wants to be in this market. what were they thinking? hell, we might as well be Pahokee.
Quote from: Debbie Thompson on August 27, 2012, 12:13:12 PM
Who cares about Ikea?
Uhhh. A lot of people. It would be pretty high up on the list of stores that middle class people in Jacksonville want, but don't have (if not #1).
IKEA is a lot more than a furniture store too...
Quote from: fsujax on August 27, 2012, 12:59:50 PM
I am just shocked that 7-11 even wants to be in this market. what were they thinking? hell, we might as well be Pahokee.
Are you seriously comparing freaking 7-11 with IKEA?
Scary..
I am joking! city life. going off of Simms post. Sarcasm.
I go to IKEA everytime I visit Orlando, which is usually two or three times a year. I would go to one here but for the sake of my bank account, probably better we don't have one.
Hi guys. I'm a Nashville urban enthusiast who has been perusing Metro Jacksonville recently. While I'm not very tech-savvy at the moment, I would ultimately like to put together a forum like this one for the Nashville enthusiast who are pretty segmented among Urban Planet, Skyscrapercity, etc. at the moment. I thought I would take this opportunity to introduce myself and chime in on IKEA if you didn't mind.
Although I'm not obsessed with IKEA and generally find them to be a step below West Elm and a couple below Crate & Barrel in terms of quality, they are undeniably one of those big boxes that I consider "destination retail." From that standpoint alone, I really like what they can do for retail in an area and want one in Nashville. We've been waiting for an IKEA in the Nashville metro for a while now and have heard we were not a good candidate for years as well. IKEA rumors started to take a more positive tone when Boyle, a local developer, teamed up with Northwestern Mutual who owns quite a bit of property in the North Gulch area here.
Boyle and NW Mutual want to develop a little over 30 acres in this area into sort of a mini-Atlantic Station (ATL)-type mixed-use development with anchors such as IKEA, an urban Publix or an urban Target. An article in the local paper had stated that all three were in negotiations with the developers. Much to our chagrin, Boyle and NW Mutual have been extremely tight-lipped about the planning of this development since announcing plans last December. Buildings on the site have started coming down despite the silence from the developers. We're all very curious about what's going on behind the scenes. I've heard rumors that Target may be out, but nothing on IKEA and Publix. Nashville is just really now around that 2 million within a 40 to 60 mile radius that IKEA looks for with the Clarksville-Ft. Campbell metro under 50 miles away. I will definitely let you guys know if we hear positive news about IKEA in the near future as I imagine that would bode well for one in Jacksonville soon too.
Quote from: ariesjow on August 27, 2012, 01:33:23 PM
Hi guys. I'm a Nashville urban enthusiast who has been perusing Metro Jacksonville recently. While I'm not very tech-savvy at the moment, I would ultimately like to put together a forum like this one for the Nashville enthusiast who are pretty segmented among Urban Planet, Skyscrapercity, etc. at the moment. I thought I would take this opportunity to introduce myself and chime in on IKEA if you didn't mind.
Although I'm not obsessed with IKEA and generally find them to be a step below West Elm and a couple below Crate & Barrel in terms of quality, they are undeniably one of those big boxes that I consider "destination retail." From that standpoint alone, I really like what they can do for retail in an area and want one in Nashville. We've been waiting for an IKEA in the Nashville metro for a while now and have heard we were not a good candidate for years as well. IKEA rumors started to take a more positive tone when Boyle, a local developer, teamed up with Northwestern Mutual who owns quite a bit of property in the North Gulch area here.
Boyle and NW Mutual want to develop a little over 30 acres in this area into sort of a mini-Atlantic Station (ATL)-type mixed-use development with anchors such as IKEA, an urban Publix or an urban Target. An article in the local paper had stated that all three were in negotiations with the developers. Much to our chagrin, Boyle and NW Mutual have been extremely tight-lipped about the planning of this development since announcing plans last December. Buildings on the site have started coming down despite the silence from the developers. We're all very curious about what's going on behind the scenes. I've heard rumors that Target may be out, but nothing on IKEA and Publix. Nashville is just really now around that 2 million within a 40 to 60 mile radius that IKEA looks for with the Clarksville-Ft. Campbell metro under 50 miles away. I will definitely let you guys know if we hear positive news about IKEA in the near future as I imagine that would bode well for one in Jacksonville soon too.
Ariesjow,
I would like to extend our warmest and humblest welcome to our MetroJacksonville, and we thank you for your insightful post.
For the Nashville and IKEA situation, that's interesting that if IKEA is actually being built after a full secrecy with the developers and prospective stores.
I wonder if IKEA would give in and actually build one here in Jacksonville IF a developer is willing to compromise / negotiate a deal with IKEA to give them the upper cut and leverage in the market which would sustain a local market capacity to keep IKEA business and continues to grow.
-Josh
Yeah, take our shipyards property, combine it with the 600' public pier and 'The Jacksonville Quay' with festival seafood, farm and nautical markets, plop an Ikea and Bass Pro on the Bay Street side and jump back and watch it happen! INSTANT SUCCESS!
More about those ideas in an upcoming photo article.
...Otherwise, by all means, welcome to our Nashville neighbor.
I wouldn't be terribly encouraged in our case, as Ikea's saying explicitly that they only look at areas with over 2 million people within 50 or 60 miles, and they have basically no exceptions to that. There may be around 2 million within 70 or 80 miles of Jacksonville, but even then a lot of them would be as close, or nearly as close, to the existing Orlando store.
Nashville may be an interesting case, or at least interesting as the site selection of big box stores possibly can be, because while they may not have quite the population figures Ikea is looking for, they are a hub for their region and can offer things no other city in Tennessee can.
Ariesjow, please do keep us posted on your progress with a Nashville forum. As far as breadth and range goes, I'd consider metrojacksonville one of the best models in the country.
Whether or not IKEA is your own personal cup of tea, every one I've ever visited has always been swarming with customers and a nearly-full parking lot. Surely the sales taxes alone would be a welcome addition to the city.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on August 27, 2012, 02:16:51 PM
Yeah, take our shipyards property, combine it with the 600' public pier and 'The Jacksonville Quay' with festival seafood, farm and nautical markets, plop an Ikea and Bass Pro on the Bay Street side and jump back and watch it happen! INSTANT SUCCESS!
Unless you're going to build it in the river, I don't think an IKEA would fit on the Shipyards site.
Cool, it is snap together cheap furniture. Who cares
^^^That's exactly the way I feel.
Quote from: kln1323 on August 27, 2012, 03:39:58 PM
Cool, it is snap together cheap furniture. Who cares
Right! I can get that from Wal Mart
ONE hot summer’s day a Fox was strolling through an orchard till he came to a bunch of Grapes just ripening on a vine which had been trained over a lofty branch. “Just the things to quench my thirst,†quoth he. Drawing back a few paces, he took a run and a jump, and just missed the bunch. Turning round again with a One, Two, Three, he jumped up, but with no greater success. Again and again he tried after the tempting morsel, but at last had to give it up, and walked away with his nose in the air, saying: “I am sure they are sour.â€
8)
Quote
Who cares
I don't get you guys. The most popular discussion a week or so was the Human Rights Ordinance. Yesterday it's IKEA and Trader Joes and how they aren't coming to Jacksonville because of major issues the city has. Today it's how Jacksonville doesn't need an IKEA or a Trader Joes and Jacksonville will be just fine without them and the major issues the city has aren't really major issues.
What going on here?
Quote from: kln1323 on August 27, 2012, 03:39:58 PM
Cool, it is snap together cheap furniture. Who cares
Honest question. Have you been inside an IKEA store?
Quote from: stephendare on August 27, 2012, 04:56:53 PM
I think I might have some insight into this.
I actually opened talks with IKEA back in 2004 about opening a store here in jax on behalf of Elaine Brown who was the City Council President at the time.. We were looking at a Downtown location, not too far from the stadium.
We actually fit into their demographic forecast at the time, but they have other needs as well.
For one, they will only do it with a local partner.
The partner has to have 15 years of department store retail experience and be willing to provide detailed financials.
They have to have 20 million in the bank before starting.
There is also a foot print requirtement.
An Ikea in Jacksonville would have a retail domain that extends from Savannah to Gainseville and over to Tallahassee. There are more than enough people in the area to support the demos.
The problem was the local partner.
The only company that qualified was Steinmart.
Peyton simply wasnt interested in bringing an IKEA downtown, and he shut down Council President Elaine Browns attempts to bring in retail anchors with a lack of action.
http://www.ikea.com/ms/en_US/about_ikea/the_ikea_way/faq/index.html
http://franchisor.ikea.com/showContent.asp?swfId=franchise9
How can I become a franchisee?
IKEA products are sold solely in stores operating the IKEA Retail System franchised by Inter IKEA Systems B.V. of the Netherlands.
Inter IKEA Systems B.V., the owner and world-wide franchisor of the IKEA Concept, aims to bring IKEA products to as many people as possible by franchising the IKEA Concept to IKEA Franchisees. Inter IKEA Systems B.V. constantly seeks market expansion, and grants new franchisees to markets/territories according to a detailed expansion plan.
Franchises are granted only to organizations and/or individuals that can secure a strong market position and market penetration in the given territory. Franchises are only granted to organizations and/or individuals that have extensive retail experience and solid local market knowledge. Opening an IKEA franchise requires a considerable investment by the IKEA franchisee.
Further information can be obtained by writing to:
Attention: Franchising
Inter IKEA Systems B.V.
Olof Palmestraat 1
NL 2616 LN Delft
The Netherlands
There you go, ladies and gentlemen! IKEA will not come here until we have a STRONG financially and fiscally responsible entity such as a company that can foot the bill, hold the bill, and reaps in the benefits if the market supports it.
Could Everbank-supported SteinMart be a IKEA's partner for the Greater Jacksonville Market? I ponders on...
Thanks for the insight, Stephen. Remind me to slap Mr. Peyton wherever I run into him for axing plenty of business opportunities.
-Josh
Quote from: ariesjow on August 27, 2012, 01:33:23 PM
Hi guys. I'm a Nashville urban enthusiast who has been perusing Metro Jacksonville recently. While I'm not very tech-savvy at the moment, I would ultimately like to put together a forum like this one for the Nashville enthusiast who are pretty segmented among Urban Planet, Skyscrapercity, etc. at the moment. I thought I would take this opportunity to introduce myself and chime in on IKEA if you didn't mind.
Although I'm not obsessed with IKEA and generally find them to be a step below West Elm and a couple below Crate & Barrel in terms of quality, they are undeniably one of those big boxes that I consider "destination retail." From that standpoint alone, I really like what they can do for retail in an area and want one in Nashville. We've been waiting for an IKEA in the Nashville metro for a while now and have heard we were not a good candidate for years as well. IKEA rumors started to take a more positive tone when Boyle, a local developer, teamed up with Northwestern Mutual who owns quite a bit of property in the North Gulch area here.
Boyle and NW Mutual want to develop a little over 30 acres in this area into sort of a mini-Atlantic Station (ATL)-type mixed-use development with anchors such as IKEA, an urban Publix or an urban Target. An article in the local paper had stated that all three were in negotiations with the developers. Much to our chagrin, Boyle and NW Mutual have been extremely tight-lipped about the planning of this development since announcing plans last December. Buildings on the site have started coming down despite the silence from the developers. We're all very curious about what's going on behind the scenes. I've heard rumors that Target may be out, but nothing on IKEA and Publix. Nashville is just really now around that 2 million within a 40 to 60 mile radius that IKEA looks for with the Clarksville-Ft. Campbell metro under 50 miles away. I will definitely let you guys know if we hear positive news about IKEA in the near future as I imagine that would bode well for one in Jacksonville soon too.
I just returned yesterday from my first visit to Nashville. I was very impressed with the very eclectic and urban vibe there. Loved the new Convention Center under construction too. That will be an amazing building when completed.
Good luck to you with your new website.
I'm pretty sure most IKEA stores aren't franchises.
Thanks for the welcome, guys! The website you guys have put together is a very great resource. This is definitely the nicest and most comprehensive urbanist forum that I have come across for a city.
Quote from: stephendare on August 27, 2012, 05:42:34 PM
Quote from: Adam W on August 27, 2012, 05:39:23 PM
I'm pretty sure most IKEA stores aren't franchises.
You are correct. Its not most.
All of them are.
http://www.ikea.com/ms/en_US/about_ikea/the_ikea_way/faq/index.html
Can I distribute IKEA products?
Inter IKEA Systems B.V. in the Netherlands, is the owner of the IKEA concept and trademark. It has franchise agreements with every IKEA store in the world. The IKEA Group is the biggest franchisee. To read more, please visit About the IKEA Group. To read more about Inter IKEA Systems visit http://franchisor.ikea.com/index.asp
I believe the vast majority of IKEA stores are operated by IKEA Group. According to your link, they are considered a franchisee of IKEA, even though they are part of IKEA.
I was referring to independent franchisees, but I have to admit you are correct.
I love this thread, seriously. People have been pining for an ikea for a decade, why I never knew, I really did hate their furniture from the beginning, it's ugly and cheap, I certainly wouldn't have been a customer, but nevertheless everybody was begging them to come here. Then they finally admit the obvious, that despite annexing all our suburbs in a 50 mile radius this place is still a backwater, and now everybody's all "We don't want them anyway, cheap Swedish crap" LMAO! Priceless. Just. Priceless. If this place were a person, you wouldn't have any trouble getting it baker acted for delusional and self-destructive behavior. Maybe now that ikea decided we have to double our population before they'll consider us, we'll drop the "Delta's ready when you are" attitude and revisit the things causing this place to stagnate. Beginning with the mobility fee, public transit, and the human rights ordinance.
I would be fine with an Ikea. I would be fine without an Ikea. Jacksonville is not "less than" because they don't have an Ikea, a Trader Joes or [insert any other store we don't have.] They are furniture stores and grocery stores. We have furniture stores and grocery stores, we just don't have those furniture stores and grocery stores. There's one within a decent drive if you need furniture and only Ikea will do.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on August 28, 2012, 08:07:47 AM
I love this thread, seriously. People have been pining for an ikea for a decade, why I never knew, I really did hate their furniture from the beginning, it's ugly and cheap, I certainly wouldn't have been a customer, but nevertheless everybody was begging them to come here. Then they finally admit the obvious, that despite annexing all our suburbs in a 50 mile radius this place is still a backwater, and now everybody's all "We don't want them anyway, cheap Swedish crap" LMAO! Priceless. Just. Priceless. If this place were a person, you wouldn't have any trouble getting it baker acted for delusional and self-destructive behavior. Maybe now that ikea decided we have to double our population before they'll consider us, we'll drop the "Delta's ready when you are" attitude and revisit the things causing this place to stagnate. Beginning with the mobility fee, public transit, and the human rights ordinance.
Pining? Very punny!
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on August 28, 2012, 08:07:47 AM
I love this thread, seriously. People have been pining for an ikea for a decade, why I never knew, I really did hate their furniture from the beginning, it's ugly and cheap, I certainly wouldn't have been a customer, but nevertheless everybody was begging them to come here. Then they finally admit the obvious, that despite annexing all our suburbs in a 50 mile radius this place is still a backwater, and now everybody's all "We don't want them anyway, cheap Swedish crap" LMAO! Priceless. Just. Priceless. If this place were a person, you wouldn't have any trouble getting it baker acted for delusional and self-destructive behavior. Maybe now that ikea decided we have to double our population before they'll consider us, we'll drop the "Delta's ready when you are" attitude and revisit the things causing this place to stagnate. Beginning with the mobility fee, public transit, and the human rights ordinance.
Chris,
I am a big fan of contemporary furniture, and IKEA made it affordable. However, they may be "cheap" however it is truly shitty and cheap-ass material when
someone ABUSES them.
IKEA made it affordable and possible for me to live with those furniture which makes my living a helluva much better. Their bookcases are actually one of the best bookcases I ever seen. Even Saunders / Wal-Mart has much much poor quality bookcases than IKEA's Billy Bookcase series.
Chris, to each of their own.
-Josh
We used IKEA's online design feature to design the kitchen in our home. Then drove all the way to Atlanta with a trailer to pick up the cabinets. I assembled them and installed them myself.
They are really great. We have all base cabinets that are all drawers. The drawers have steel sides and close automatically. In seven years there has not been a problem with anything and they look good. Because they are European style "box" construction, not American style "face frame" construction there is no wasted space inside the cabinets; another plus.
Its still a load of bunk saying we don't have enough people to support a store. Their 2 million population mark is within 100 miles of city core. So if we add in Savannah, Brunswick, Gainesville, etc, we are above 2 million. You don't think people in Georgia wouldn't drive down if it is closer than Atlanta?
Stephen,
The fact that you could not find a sponsor in Jacksonville does not surprise me at all. One thing I have very consistently harped on for years as a major missing element in Jacksonville is the fact that there aren't any traditional developers. Everyone on this site utters lots of hate for developers, understandably, because in Jacksonville that almost only means Toney Sleiman and tract housing developers.
Outside of Hallmark, the late Will Parham (1661 Riverside), Delores Weaver (those lofts) and Balcksheep Restaurant Group (1234 Oak), who are the developers in town who are trying to transform downtown, transform retail, or transform other neighborhoods? There are none.
I work for a developer (a private equity real estate investment fund syndicator) and we almost exclusively do urban projects in large cities (we have 2 opportunistic funds with projects in smaller cities). Most developers I know are great, of course bottom line or fee minded people, but interested and prideful in their projects, trying to shape communities.
Good luck getting an Ikea, TJ's or any other brand. They may be cheap, but having visited a friend's studio in San Francisco last night ($3,200/mo), he works for a big financial firm and is fine with Ikea furniture and cheap goods. I am too. Nothing wrong with it. People in Jacksonville have NO right to be pretentious and stuck up when it's a shit cheap town with no true wealth. If wealthy young professionals in big cities are fine with Ikea, don't try to tell me it's beneath you (but I guess if you're paying $900 for a luxury 2 BR and no state income tax you can afford nicer things...).
Quote from: simms3 on August 28, 2012, 10:10:09 AM
Good luck getting an Ikea, TJ's or any other brand. They may be cheap, but having visited a friend's studio in San Francisco last night ($3,200/mo), he works for a big financial firm and is fine with Ikea furniture and cheap goods. I am too. Nothing wrong with it. People in Jacksonville have NO right to be pretentious and stuck up when it's a shit cheap town with no true wealth. If wealthy young professionals in big cities are fine with Ikea, don't try to tell me it's beneath you (but I guess if you're paying $900 for a luxury 2 BR and no state income tax you can afford nicer things...).
Oh, BS simms. The fact that someone lives in Jacksonville, or anywhere, has no particular bearing on their taste in furniture. Affordable Swedish bigboxery is affordable Swedish bigboxery in London or in Ty Ty, Georgia. The fact that some yuppies like it is not persuasive to anyone other than other yuppies.
I own some IKEA book cases, and they are fine, nothing more, nothing less. They were inexpensive and will last as long as I need them to. When I have more money and space I'll buy or make real ones.
^Have you ever been to IKEA?
I'd assume so, based on the fact that you have IKEA bookcases. But a trip to an IKEA should swiftly disabuse you of the notion that yuppies are their key demographic!
If it were, they wouldn't be anywhere as successful as they are.
I think Jax is easily as "ready" for an IKEA as anywhere else. At least the people of Jax and the surrounding areas are. Whether or not the company feels there are enough people to justify opening a store is a different notion altogether.
An IKEA store would be a nice addition to the area. It's a shame the company doesn't feel the region meets their criteria at the moment. But I'd figure a store will open up in the Jax metro area in due course.
Edit: I think I missed your point re: yuppies, Tacachale. On re-reading your post, I see you are not saying IKEA only appeals to yuppies. My apologies.
Quote from: Dapperdan on August 28, 2012, 10:02:10 AM
Its still a load of bunk saying we don't have enough people to support a store. Their 2 million population mark is within 100 miles of city core. So if we add in Savannah, Brunswick, Gainesville, etc, we are above 2 million. You don't think people in Georgia wouldn't drive down if it is closer than Atlanta?
The 50-60 mile radius is likely based on a formula of projected trips. The further outside the bubble you go, the less frequently those trips will occur. Sure people from Savannah and Tallahassee may come once or twice a year when they truly need something, but people within 50 miles are far more likely to just be in the neighborhood and make 5 trips a year.
I'd also imagine they have a formula that tells them people outside a certain distance from the store are as likely to order online, rather than visit a store. If you're in Savannah its pretty dumb to drive all the way to Jax and pay 40 bucks in gas, when you can have something delivered for a comparable price.
Quote from: Adam W on August 28, 2012, 10:30:45 AM
^Have you ever been to IKEA?
I'd assume so, based on the fact that you have IKEA bookcases. But a trip to an IKEA should swiftly disabuse you of the notion that yuppies are their key demographic!
If it were, they wouldn't be anywhere as successful as they are.
I think Jax is easily as "ready" for an IKEA as anywhere else. At least the people of Jax and the surrounding areas are. Whether or not the company feels there are enough people to justify opening a store is a different notion altogether.
An IKEA store would be a nice addition to the area. It's a shame the company doesn't feel the region meets their criteria at the moment. But I'd figure a store will open up in the Jax metro area in due course.
Yes, I've been to IKEA and am fairly familiar with it. The yuppie comment was directed specifically at simms, who has fallen on his typical assumption that something that works for some white yuppies he knows should work for everyone everywhere.
I agree that IKEA would be a nice addition to Jax, as they're the epitome of destination shopping. But it doesn't look like it's going to happen until we either grow substantially, or IKEA changes their site selection parameters.
QuotePeople in Jacksonville have NO right to be pretentious and stuck up when it's a shit cheap town with no true wealth.
How do you really feel? The few things I bought when they came into the Charlotte market were quite shit, but maybe I'm the outlier.
Since IKEA is destination retail, it is in their best interest to not put a store in Jacksonville for the time being. They enjoy their status as a shopping destination. It's how they are able to keep their following. Otherwise, you would just go to your local Sauder store to pick up assembly ready furniture, or you would go to Target or Bed, Bath for housewares. But, no... no one gets a special jolly out of visiting thie local Target. It's much cooler when you have toured IKEA's perfectly designed showroom and then you buy the items downstairs with cool Swedish names no one can understand. Why would anyone buy forks from Wal-Mart when they could get "Fuidscurd" forks at IKEA for the same price?
IKEA is more than just a retail store, it's a destination. It is a spectacle of household goods that takes hours to traverse. IKEA knows people will drive hours to go to their store and they have a very limited shipping policy for a reason. They don't want to make it very easy to shop there. Why do you think, they try and force everyone to their second floor showroom before you can actually pick up some items?
IKEA could just as easily become like Amazon or Target and sell their wares (and furniture) on the internet with delivery to all locals in the US. Last I checked (and I may be wrong) they only offer to deliver to locations within the vicinity of any particular store.
It's the same reason Bass Pro Shops have only have stores 4-6 hours away from each other or why even major cities tend to only have one or two Cheesecake Factories. They could support more. Jacksonville could probably support an IKEA, but IKEA knows its better for their brand image to make it somewhat out of reach or out-of the-ordinary. It's a big city destination designed to be gawked over. If it didn't carry that perceived cool, big city image, people probably wouldn't shop there as much.
I like IKEA. It's a neat store and every now and again, I go into the Orlando store when I am down there. I can't say I am really impressed with their furniture, some of the designs are cool, but picking up household goods from time to time isn't bad. If they put one in Jacksonville, it would be cool, but its really not the end of the world.
Last time I was in IKEA Orlando, the people in front of us and the people behind us at the checkout were from Jacksonville.
QuoteIKEA is more than just a retail store, it's a destination. It is a spectacle of household goods that takes hours to traverse. IKEA knows people will drive hours to go to their store and they have a very limited shipping policy for a reason. They don't want to make it very easy to shop there. Why do you think, they try and force everyone to their second floor showroom before you can actually pick up some items?
IKEA could just as easily become like Amazon or Target and sell their wares (and furniture) on the internet with delivery to all locals in the US. Last I checked (and I may be wrong) they only offer to deliver to locations within the vicinity of any particular store.
It's the same reason Bass Pro Shops have only have stores 4-6 hours away from each other or why even major cities tend to only have one or two Cheesecake Factories. They could support more. Jacksonville could probably support an IKEA, but IKEA knows its better for their brand image to make it somewhat out of reach or out-of the-ordinary. It's a big city destination designed to be gawked over. If it didn't carry that perceived cool, big city image, people probably wouldn't shop there as much.
Just to make a quick comment about 'destination retail'. One major difference b/w Ikea and Bass Pro is that Bass Pro typically wants
large incentives to locate somewhere.
I like Bass Pro. I'd choose them over Gander, Dicks, Cabelas or Academy (albeit Academy's pricing is nice, they just don't have the product mix of a Bass Pro). However, when you take into account the massive incentives cities are giving Bass Pro they hardly represent a net gain. I'd welcome a Bass Pro in Jax, just as long as they don't come with their hand out waiting for some municipal cash, free land and massive tax rebates.
As far as the Ikea delivery comment, I don't believe that is to be the case. Before the Sunrise store opened (which opened before Orlando) and the closest store was Atlanta... I ordered some items(basically one of their kitchens) online for an old house and had them shipped here.
It's really silly to debate this. Ikea isn't coming here.
A CB2 would be nice too, but that isn't happening either.
Quote from: fieldafm on August 28, 2012, 11:32:55 AM
A CB2 would be nice too, but that isn't happening either.
Remember that a Bo Concept opened at SJTC and then closed. Maybe there just isn't much of a market for contemporary furniture here.
Perhaps. But Bo Concept was waaaay overpriced for stuff that was IKEA-quality, basically.
I think all furniture stores have struggled during the current recession. New furniture is often a luxury rather than a necessity, and probably one of the first things people cut back on when money and credit are tight. They may delay a purchase altogether or choose a cheaper substitute like Ashley or Rooms-To-Go.
^or IKEA, for that matter!
Quote from: chipwich on August 28, 2012, 11:12:37 AM
Jacksonville could probably support an IKEA, but IKEA knows its better for their brand image to make it somewhat out of reach or out-of the-ordinary. It's a big city destination designed to be gawked over. If it didn't carry that perceived cool, big city image, people probably wouldn't shop there as much.
A really valid point.
Macy's is a good example.
I think their level of cache and brand perception took a pretty big hit when they slapped their name on all the small-market Burdines stores that they had taken over.
Macy's slapped their name on a ton of small-market stores back in the 90s.
If I am going to buy really cheap furniture I want it to be IKEA. Ashley and RTG are not that cheap but pretty crappy stuff.
I don't know what the population is from here to Brunswick or even Savannah, but all of SE Georgia would shop at an IKEA in Jacksonville. I love IKEA and I go to Orlando some times just to go there. It is a destination store.
I don't love everything at IKEA, but the kitchen and bathroom options are tremendous for those of us on a tight budget. And there are some really good options for storage that price and style wise put cheap furniture stores to shame.
IKEA is not for the Ortega crowd, it is for everyone else.
(I'm not picking on Ortega. I hope everyone understands what I mean.)
As far as Bo Concepts their prices were on Scan Design levels and I think the Scan Design furniture is much better quality.
And Scan seems to be doing pretty good. If you like contemporary they have great furniture. And I'm very glad we have that option here. We have plenty of traditional options already. I like Crate and Barrel and Pottery Barn, but I have always checked out Max & Co first. They have a similar look but it's local. Always my first option.
I think there is more to IKEA not being here than just population.
I have to agree with Adam on Bo Concepts.
While a place like Bo Concpets left (and Nest Living is now doing online only, I liked them) places like Scan Design, Matisse and West Elm remain.
I actually just ordered a nice contemporary bookcase through a local store in Fleming Island and it is of similar quality to anything you could buy at BC, yet for about half the price.
It's all relative.
Actually Macy's, except the very large stores, has always been just another generic department store. They do deserve credit for the "stars" they have brought in to put their names on products. (Martha Stewart etc.) The Daytona store is very mediocre and I liked Burdines way better. They do have a fairly nice home area, but other than that I like Dillard's just as much. Now f you really want cache you need a Nordstrom, Sak's and Neiman's. All 3 or at least one. That would put us on the retail map and we would join EVERY other city in Florida that has at least one of those stores. In my opinion we are a 2nd tier retail city and I only rank us that high because we have a Tiffany's and Louis Vuitton.
Sak's has stores in Palm Beach Gardens, Orlando, Destin, Tampa, Miami, Boca, Palm Beach, Sarasota, Naples and Ft Myers.
Nordstrom has stores in Miami, Palm Beach Gardens, Naples Tampa, and Naples.
Neiman-Marcus has stores in Miami, Palm Beach, Tampa, Orlando and Ft Lauderdale.
I may have left some out so forgive me..
I know the argument is we don't have the demographic with the kind of money these other locations do. But nobody said build a giant store. The Orlando locations are are not that large and I truly believe the Jacksonville area could support at least one of these stores. Some people would drive from Amelia Island and I think as far as Sea Island to shop there.
As I have said many times it's hard to buy the kind of merchandise these stores carry since Jacobson's closed.
And the Jacksonville Jacobson's store was one of their most profitable according to a friend of mine who was an executive there.
If anyone knows about a local men's store that that has this kind of merchandise please let me know. I think Rosenblums may be the only one.
I have never seen anything in Matisse that I would buy. Nest Living was, is a great. Sorry he doesn't have a store any longer. I loved the place.
Nobody was saying Ikea was meant for white yuppies, who quite frankly when possible would rather shop at a Bobby Berk, Room & Board, Poggen Pohl or Crate & Barrel at a minimum. My point was the 25-30 year old white yuppie in most big cities in America or abroad is still living with lowly and humble Ikea furniture because they are still living in apartments. People's comments seemed to trash Ikea as cheap and shitty, which it is, but it just bothers me hearing stuck up attitudes in Jacksonville. I get sick of it in Atlanta too. When I am in someone's apartment in SF and they are making a very solid 6 figures and all they can justify on the furniture front is Ikea (and their monthly rent is higher than nearly every mortgage in NE FL except for those on PVB Blvd), then I just don't want to hear comments about how Jacksonville would be fine without crappy Ikea.
If white yuppies are only able to still afford Ikea in many places, then you know the masses are shopping there, too. Maybe Jacksonville doesn't check all the boxes, but why not ask the difficult question of why there is NO Retail of any sort in Jacksonville? Somebody or some people are dropping the ball right and left. In some cases is it because the city leaders are not attracting the right types of jobs that bring certain incomes and certain people who buy certain things? On the other end, the discount end, what is the story?
Why are there no respectable developers on a large scale in Jacksonville. A question I have asked repeatedly for years on this forum? Aside from exclusive clubs and gated communities and a few small loft projects here and there, everything good to happen in Jacksonville (and I include SJTC in that arena) is made possible by outside teams. There is no private downtown champion with the experience and resources to make a big turnaround. Every new retailer to the area from Whole Foods to H&M to LA Fitness to Louis Vuitton is thanks largely to an outside team with the exceptions of local landlord reps who might be on assignment in Jacksonville from elsewhere, as well.
Quote
If white yuppies are only able to still afford Ikea in many places, then you know the masses are shopping there, too. Maybe Jacksonville doesn't check all the boxes, but why not ask the difficult question of why there is NO Retail of any sort in Jacksonville? Somebody or some people are dropping the ball right and left. In some cases is it because the city leaders are not attracting the right types of jobs that bring certain incomes and certain people who buy certain things? On the other end, the discount end, what is the story?
Aside from exclusive clubs and gated communities and a few small loft projects here and there, everything good to happen in Jacksonville (and I include SJTC in that arena) is made possible by outside teams. There is no private downtown champion with the experience and resources to make a big turnaround. Every new retailer to the area from Whole Foods to H&M to LA Fitness to Louis Vuitton is thanks largely to an outside team with the exceptions of local landlord reps who might be on assignment in Jacksonville from elsewhere, as well.
Just to add some facts instead of opinion:
While I cannot stand how pathetically bad of a design SJTC is, it has one of the highest sales per square feet of any lifestyle center in the Southeast.
Carter has a home in Jacksonville. Although he spends most of his time in Atlanta he's not exactly an 'outsider'. I see him frequently at social events.
And Whole Foods brought in by someone else? That shopping center was a local landlord when they brokered the Whole Foods deal until they later sold it. Futhermore your favorite punching bag, Toney Sleiman, brought in LA Fitness.
You have some underlying valid points from time to time, but mostly they're masked by all the other rant stuff.
I love the rants. Keep it up Simms.
I too enjoy the rants. When I read posts from Simms, I envision him typing them while sitting in a posh penthouse at The Dakota, whilst getting his shoes shined by a British butler, and eating food from Per Se.
I also enjoy Field dropping knowledge.
Good, their merchandise is worthless anyway.
Quote from: kellypope on August 28, 2012, 08:00:36 PM
Good, their merchandise is worthless anyway.
Case in point. I love ranting on this site.
Quote from: finehoe on August 28, 2012, 12:28:36 PM
Quote from: fieldafm on August 28, 2012, 11:32:55 AM
A CB2 would be nice too, but that isn't happening either.
Remember that a Bo Concept opened at SJTC and then closed. Maybe there just isn't much of a market for contemporary furniture here.
You may be right. NestLiving failed in both 5 Points in San Marco.
That being said, Scan Design has been killing it for years...
It's frustrating not having any decent modern/contemporary furniture at reasonable prices in the area. Between Scan Design/nest living/Design Within Reach and IKEA/whatever ends up on craigslist, there aren't many options.
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/s480x480/402870_367743673303575_1812973995_n.jpg)
you can think the stuff is crap all you want, but having a store like that would be nice for tax revenue.
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on August 29, 2012, 11:12:33 AM
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/s480x480/402870_367743673303575_1812973995_n.jpg)
That cracks me so much! I can assemble an IKEA chair in 3 minutes. So cheap, flimsy, but solid chairs. They are great for
short term usage.
-Josh
Quote from: fsquid on August 29, 2012, 11:23:47 AM
you can think the stuff is crap all you want, but having a store like that would be nice for tax revenue.
The interior of my whole house looks like it just fell out of an: Ikea, West Elm, catalog... Um I think it did! A couple of years ago my daughter bought a new couch at one of the major 'name brand' furniture stores. My son is 6' 2" and buffed sat down on it and crack, went right through to the floor! To repair it we flipped it over, cut off the lining, and found a nightmare of pressboard, glued wood chip product and particle board. It couldn't be fixed because there wasn't a place in it that would hold a screw. My wife took her to Ikea and they bought another couch, it is framed with white wood, and metal clamps and brackets... Call it what you want, but the Ikea sofa has been wonderful.
All of the products I've assembled including all of our 5 bedrooms, have got a personal touch added. WOOD GLUE on and inside EVERY joint, seam, etc... Finished products? Solid as rocks.
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: Ocklawaha on August 29, 2012, 11:55:16 AM
Quote from: fsquid on August 29, 2012, 11:23:47 AM
you can think the stuff is crap all you want, but having a store like that would be nice for tax revenue.
The interior of my whole house looks like it just fell out of an: Ikea, West Elm, catalog... Um I think it did! A couple of years ago my daughter bought a new couch at one of the major 'name brand' furniture stores. My son is 6' 2" and buffed sat down on it and crack, went right through to the floor! To repair it we flipped it over, cut off the lining, and found a nightmare of pressboard, glued wood chip product and particle board. It couldn't be fixed because there wasn't a place in it that would hold a screw. My wife took her to Ikea and they bought another couch, it is framed with white wood, and metal clamps and brackets... Call it what you want, but the Ikea sofa has been wonderful.
All of the products I've assembled including all of our 5 bedrooms, have got a personal touch added. WOOD GLUE on and inside EVERY joint, seam, etc... Finished products? Solid as rocks.
OCKLAWAHA
See? Wooden glue is your best insurance for any self-assemble furniture! :D
-Josh
IRRELEVANT INFORMATION ALERT, IRRELEVANT INFORMATION ALERT:
Once the wood glue cures, the bond is actually stronger than the wood itself, so any splitting, splintering, cracking, breaking, etc.... that happens will be above or below the bonded joint.
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on August 29, 2012, 12:12:24 PM
IRRELEVANT INFORMATION ALERT, IRRELEVANT INFORMATION ALERT:
Once the wood glue cures, the bond is actually stronger than the wood itself, so any splitting, splintering, cracking, breaking, etc.... that happens will be above or below the bonded joint.
So, what is stronger than the bonded part?
Your mom? :P
-Josh
So to sum up the (so far) six pages.
Some of us love Ikea furniture.
Some of us hate it.
Some of us would not buy it if there was an Ikea on the next block.
Some of us will drive to Orlando to get it.
Ikea isn't coming to Jacksonville, but if they were,
it would be fine with some of us, even wonderful.
And some of us don't care. ;D
Quote from: Debbie Thompson on August 29, 2012, 12:35:49 PM
And some of us don't care about growing the city's tax base and making Jacksonville a more attractive place to live and visit.
FIFY :)
That's not my quote. I never said that.
Quote from: Debbie Thompson on August 29, 2012, 07:50:41 PM
That's not my quote. I never said that.
FIFY means Fixed It For You
Quote from: Debbie Thompson on August 29, 2012, 07:50:41 PM
That's not my quote. I never said that.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=FIFY (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=FIFY)
City Life, I know you were joking because of the smiley, so I'm not mad. I don't think I agree FIFY means fixed it for you. It means you took my name (my own name) and used it to express your opinion (an anonymous screen name.) Why not just express your opinion under your own moniker? I wasn't much amused because someone could hijack my name in a quote and not say FIFY to indicate it wasn't me. Like I said, not angry. Just wondering why people would do that.
Quote from: Debbie Thompson on August 30, 2012, 07:34:25 AM
City Life, I know you were joking because of the smiley, so I'm not mad. I don't think I agree FIFY means fixed it for you. It means you took my name (my own name) and used it to express your opinion (an anonymous screen name.) Why not just express your opinion under your own moniker? I wasn't much amused because someone could hijack my name in a quote and not say FIFY to indicate it wasn't me. Like I said, not angry. Just wondering why people would do that.
From the link I provided:
1. FIFY acronym used in message boards, meaning "Fixed it for ya". Most often used in quoting another posters work and slightly changing it.
Poster 1 "I really enjoyed 'Brokeback Mountain!'"
Poster 2: "<Poster_1>I really enjoy gay sex with cowboys!</Poster_1> FIFY!So, it's common practice. Maybe you don't agree FIFY means "fixed it for ya" but that doesn't matter - it does mean that, whether or not you agree ;)
The whole FIFY thing is so gay and just leads to flame wars on other message boards
Quote from: fsquid on August 30, 2012, 09:36:17 AM
The whole FIFY thing is so gay and just leads to flame wars on other message boards
I wouldn't say it was "gay" but I would say it was pretty stupid. I guess the idea can be somewhat clever at times.
"so gay"? What are you, 12?
Oh, no! Let's not start an argument about FIFY now. I'm sure it's something the cool kids do, and I'm just an old fart not up on what the cool kids do. I think it's kind of silly not to just say what you mean yourself, but as long as someone puts FIFY so the next poster doesn't mistake it for an authentic quote, I don't see the big deal.
Quote from: finehoe on August 30, 2012, 09:49:23 AM
"so gay"? What are you, 12?
13, looking forward to getting some chest hair.
There's hope yet!
From today's Wall Street Journal:
QuoteIKEA to Accelerate U.S. Store Expansions
HANSEGARD And ANNA MOLIN
STOCKHOLMâ€"IKEA will more than double the pace of store openings by 2020, as the Swedish furniture giant aims to ramp up its presence in the U.S. and capture a bigger slice of growth in fast-growing markets such as China.
"We're increasing our production in the U.S., and would also like to find more suppliers that have a strategic fit with IKEA," Chief Executive Mikael Ohlsson said in an interview with The Wall Street Journal on Tuesday, a day after the company announced he will exit the company next year.
Mr. Ohlsson will be succeeded next September by Peter Agnefjäll, 41, the current country manager of Sweden. But before his departure, he plans to set the ball rolling on an expansion drive that will add tens of thousands of jobs and more than 100 stores to IKEA's approximately 300-strong chain. The drive will require annual investments of about â,¬1.5 billion to â,¬2.5 billion ($1.97 billion to $3.28 billion) from 2014, the company said, and will mean opening 20 to 25 stores a year, compared with six to 12 at present.
Full story:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444450004578003971406212516.html
^^^ Yeah, sure there is hope, about as much hope as the Bozo's in DC saving us from the fiscal cliff....
Quote from: mtraininjax on September 20, 2012, 04:15:00 AM
^^^ Yeah, sure there is hope, about as much hope as the Bozo's in DC saving us from the fiscal cliff....
If the one in DC is Bozo than the one running against him is Bozo's retarded cousin.
Quote from: fsquid on August 29, 2012, 11:23:47 AM
you can think the stuff is crap all you want, but having a store like that would be nice for tax revenue.
Not all their stuff is crap. I want to know where everyone buys furniture here?
I agree their furniture is not for the long haul, but they do have some good merchandise at great prices.
I love modern and other than West Elm and Scan Design there is no other. At least for me.
I love their kitchens and for people who belong to the 47%, we can't afford to buy decent home goods with our welfare so IKEA is perfect.
Mtrain you should love IKEA coming here because we freeloaders who, although making poverty wages could at least afford a chair, even an inferior one, to sit on.
Quote from: ben says on August 28, 2012, 08:26:21 PM
Quote from: finehoe on August 28, 2012, 12:28:36 PM
Quote from: fieldafm on August 28, 2012, 11:32:55 AM
A CB2 would be nice too, but that isn't happening either.
Remember that a Bo Concept opened at SJTC and then closed. Maybe there just isn't much of a market for contemporary furniture here.
You may be right. NestLiving failed in both 5 Points in San Marco.
That being said, Scan Design has been killing it for years...
Nest Living has/had authentic modern classics not the many, many knockoffs out there. If you wanted great modern he had it. The Herman Miller store didn't last long in San Marco and that was another great shop. I bought chairs there and no one else in Jacksonville had them. I don't know if anyone in Jacksonville has Herman Miller unless the shop on San Marco has it.
Forgot the name of the store. Sorry I'm about to leave and don't have time to look it up.
This comes up from time to time. However, from IKEA's point of view, nothing has changed:
IKEA says not now for JacksonvilleQuoteRegency Mall Realty wants to consolidate all tenants in half of the mall and work with the city and community about the rest.
That's where the IKEA idea comes up. Fans contend the Swedish retailer would be a game-changer at Regency, whose Arlington location has seen better days.
IKEA has more than 340 stores worldwide, including 38 U.S. stores. It has three in Florida in Orlando, Tampa and Sunrise, which is in the Miami area. It plans to open a fourth this summer in Sweetwater, just 35 miles south of Sunrise.
Jacksonville isn't on the list yet.
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=542362
IKEA is quite the game changer in South Philly ;)
https://www.google.com/maps/place/IKEA+South+Philadelphia/@39.9174049,-75.1408471,497m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x89c6c8b2d85cab5d:0x6311fc151459e887
We've got to pull these people in off the expressway and convince them to live here. Quickly.
Orlando has an Ikea and they're not that much bigger, are they?
Nice stores, for sure. Let's grow, Jax!
quite a bit over 2 mil and growing much faster than us.
2012 US Census Bureau population estimate and growth percentage between 2010-2012:
2,920,603 (+3.64%) - Orlando-Deltona-Daytona Beach, FL Combined Statistical Area
1,502,515 (+2.18%) - Jacksonville-St. Marys-Palatka, FL-GA Combined Statistical Area
These numbers don't reflect the amount of tourist down there or the extra million living in Polk (616,158, +2.34%) and Brevard (547,307, +0.72%) that are within a 30-45 minute drive of Orlando.
What's so great about Ikea?
It's just a little lust over things many may want but aren't present locally. IKEA, Macy's, Bass Pro, a vibrant 24/7 downtown atmosphere, reliable mass transit, etc......
We may be a few numbers short, but I think incentives, mail orders and those communities closer to Jax then any other store could push us over the top pretty easily. What is the closest store to Tallahassee? What's the MSA population? Add just those closer ones and you hit the 2 million mark with some to spare.
Waycross MSA 50,000
Camden County MSA 50,000
Valdosta MSA 140,000
Lake City MSA 67,000
Gainesville MSA 260,000
567,000 more easily within the trade area.
This is not a situation where IKEA (or anybody else) wants to 'stay out of Jax.' They are in business to make money, they have a formula, and if we can show that we meet that grade, we're in. If IKEA finds a hot market for ultra-modern isn't even a consideration, with a segment of our city considered lower wage, they'll blow Wal-Mart out of the water on those little things like dinnerware, baskets, curtains etc.. They'll come, just don't worry if it's not announced tomorrow.
I'm with everything you said after Bass Pro, but the rest are meh, guess its just me. I don't shop at those places. Give me a functional DT and the rest will follow.
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on March 10, 2014, 11:14:21 AM
What's so great about Ikea?
Halfway-decent furniture and other furnishings for extremely low prices. Furniture savings are passed along to the consumer in the form of assembly being required.
Also meatballs...
Quote from: fsujax on August 27, 2012, 08:19:25 AM
Who cares. What is the big deal about this place? We need to double our population? Charlotte and Austin are not double our population according to the numbers above.
I say F em! Duval dont need them.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on March 10, 2014, 11:26:30 AM
We may be a few numbers short, but I think incentives, mail orders and those communities closer to Jax then any other store could push us over the top pretty easily. What is the closest store to Tallahassee? What's the MSA population? Add just those closer ones and you hit the 2 million mark with some to spare.
Waycross MSA 50,000
Camden County MSA 50,000
Valdosta MSA 140,000
Lake City MSA 67,000
Gainesville MSA 260,000
567,000 more easily within the trade area.
This is not a situation where IKEA (or anybody else) wants to 'stay out of Jax.' They are in business to make money, they have a formula, and if we can show that we meet that grade, we're in. If IKEA finds a hot market for ultra-modern isn't even a consideration, with a segment of our city considered lower wage, they'll blow Wal-Mart out of the water on those little things like dinnerware, baskets, curtains etc.. They'll come, just don't worry if it's not announced tomorrow.
Gainesville? That population is just as likely to drive to an existing store in metro Tampa or Orlando. Stretching to include Valdosta/Tallahassee as a part of your core market demographics? We're really in trouble.
From my experience, many of these companies have the ability to evaluate potential markets that fit their demographic and site location criteria in-house. If we're having to rely on small communities 2 hours away just to meet the minimal figure, we're probably a good decade or two off of being a viable market for that specific product. With that said, there's no shame in being a smaller market. As we grew, new opportunities will find their way to Jax.
Quote from: duvaldude08 on August 27, 2012, 03:54:55 PM
Quote from: kln1323 on August 27, 2012, 03:39:58 PM
Cool, it is snap together cheap furniture. Who cares
Right! I can get that from Wal Mart
Im sure Jax has something that sellswhat IKEA has. People just want the brand name. Im Jax has alternatives.
Love to have one here. Best location would be River City Marketplace, plus would be a great spot for SE United Sates Distribution Center.
Quote from: thelakelander on March 10, 2014, 12:08:10 PM
Quote from: Ocklawaha on March 10, 2014, 11:26:30 AM
We may be a few numbers short, but I think incentives, mail orders and those communities closer to Jax then any other store could push us over the top pretty easily. What is the closest store to Tallahassee? What's the MSA population? Add just those closer ones and you hit the 2 million mark with some to spare.
Waycross MSA 50,000
Camden County MSA 50,000
Valdosta MSA 140,000
Lake City MSA 67,000
Gainesville MSA 260,000
567,000 more easily within the trade area.
This is not a situation where IKEA (or anybody else) wants to 'stay out of Jax.' They are in business to make money, they have a formula, and if we can show that we meet that grade, we're in. If IKEA finds a hot market for ultra-modern isn't even a consideration, with a segment of our city considered lower wage, they'll blow Wal-Mart out of the water on those little things like dinnerware, baskets, curtains etc.. They'll come, just don't worry if it's not announced tomorrow.
Gainesville? That population is just as likely to drive to an existing store in metro Tampa or Orlando. Stretching to include Valdosta/Tallahassee as a part of your core market demographics? We're really in trouble.
sorry Ock, but the article is pretty clear on what IKEA considers its core market area...
"Roth explained that when IKEA looks for a site, it needs a population of at least 2 million people within 40-60 miles or within 40-60 minutes of drive-time."given this, Lake City, Palm Coast and Gainesville are out...and south Georgia and Palatka might also not work depending on location.
Quote from: Coolyfett on March 10, 2014, 12:03:22 PM
I say F em! Duval dont need them.
+1000
I'm so over the IKEA talk, like I'm supposed to wait on pins & needles. When they decide to come fine, til then I could care less about the 'not enough people to support IKEA' blah blah blah etc ad nausem.
Quote from: Josh on March 10, 2014, 11:42:18 AM
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on March 10, 2014, 11:14:21 AM
What's so great about Ikea?
Halfway-decent furniture and other furnishings for extremely low prices. Furniture savings are passed along to the consumer in the form of assembly being required.
Also meatballs...
I'm certainly not their market subject either. I'm getting rid of furniture at this stage.
Now if they had boats, fishing tackle, outdoor gear or high end sea kayaks we might talk.
Quote from: Coolyfett on March 10, 2014, 12:18:08 PM
Quote from: duvaldude08 on August 27, 2012, 03:54:55 PM
Quote from: kln1323 on August 27, 2012, 03:39:58 PM
Cool, it is snap together cheap furniture. Who cares
Right! I can get that from Wal Mart
Im sure Jax has something that sellswhat IKEA has. People just want the brand name. Im Jax has alternatives.
People want an Ikea store
because there is nothing else that compares. It's how they've managed to become the company they are. The Ikea brand is actually the least desirable aspect of their products.
^I don't know about that.
Heck we can't even get a Crate & Barrel. Which I have to admit that ranks right up there with the no Macy's in town as in dumbfounding.
I have an idea Crate and Barrel will not be far away...Its a great store
Quote from: Tacachale on March 10, 2014, 03:50:07 PM
^I don't know about that.
Yeah. A big part of IKEA's appeal is the brand. And that brand attracts a lot of business, including people who travel out of town to buy their product. (Trust me, I know people like this.)
Before they had stores in the South, my older brother actually took a road trip from Fort Lauderdale to DC, just to visit IKEA. Now that there's two in South Florida, they routinely eat at them. So yeah, there is a cult following of IKEA fans out there.
I usually make one trip a year down to IKEA in Orlando. The first IKEA I went to was the one outside DC about ten years ago. My wife brought an empty suitcase to prepare for our trip.
Quote from: Josh on March 10, 2014, 03:45:18 PM
Quote from: Coolyfett on March 10, 2014, 12:18:08 PM
Quote from: duvaldude08 on August 27, 2012, 03:54:55 PM
Quote from: kln1323 on August 27, 2012, 03:39:58 PM
Cool, it is snap together cheap furniture. Who cares
Right! I can get that from Wal Mart
Im sure Jax has something that sellswhat IKEA has. People just want the brand name. Im Jax has alternatives.
People want an Ikea store because there is nothing else that compares. It's how they've managed to become the company they are. The Ikea brand is actually the least desirable aspect of their products.
I agree. I don't think the IKEA brand is desirable at all. I think people like the affordable aspect, and as a shopper there for many years now (10 and counting), I like finding interesting furniture that doesn't "look" so cheap (at casual glance), but has cheap IKEA prices. The whole point of IKEA is the Crate & Barrel look for 1/3 to 1/2 the price.
The other aspect that works for IKEA is not the name branding, but the country branding. Swedish is "in" right now. I can tell you, as a Swede, that most of the food served in IKEA or sold in the food store near check out is CRAP. I will not touch those nasty meat balls and half of the food sold in the Swedish grocer is not really Swedish at all...often American crap with a Swedish name. I continue to buy their furniture, however, and the general look and feel of IKEA seems plenty contemporary Swedish to me (or Euro in general).
Jax doesn't have the people for the store. They rely on massive volume, and even Orlando is a small market for them. There is certainly a reason they want 2+ million people within 40 miles of a store. Orlando's store probably survives on Gainesville, Tallahassee, and Jax business in addition to Orlando business.
Metro Atlanta has just 1 store, for an idea (1 for 6 million people in immediate area plus those millions living in surrounding cities like Birmingham, Greenville-Spartanburg, Nashville, Knoxville, etc etc)
NorCal (11 million people between SF, SJ, and Sac all within 1 hour drive, plus a couple million more in area) has 3...so that's almost 4 million to a store.
SoCal has 5 for over 21 million people between LA, IE, and SD, so over 4 million to a store.
Phoenix/AZ has 1, so 6.6 million in AZ, mostly in Phoenix, plus NM and probably Las Vegas if they choose not to head over to LA.
Seattle has 1, and that's about 4 million people.
Dallas-Fort Worth has only 1 for all 7 million people in that area.
Houston has 1 for all 6 million people in that area. Plus they probably pull from NOLA and AR/LA cities.
Austin has 1 for both it and San Antonio (4-5 million people there).
Chicagoland with 10 million people has only 2, so 5 million people to a store, not to mention another couple million from Milwaukee and a 4 million more for STL and points in between.
There are 2 between Cincinnati and Pittsburgh to serve IN, OH, western PA, northern KY, etc etc.
The Bos-Wash corridor is also pretty dry for the dozens of millions of people it has.
I would be SHOCKED if Jax could support another IKEA. They seem to love the 5-10 million person to a store kind of captured market, with at least 2 million within immediate 30 minute drive.
Simms3, you've got it all wrong. Jax is going to get an Ikea any day now, right next to the Downtown Nordstrom.
Ikea is very 'neat' the first time you go, but after 3-4 visits it is a 'been there, done that ' thing to me. Charlotte has a store, which is about 2 million people, but it definitely draws from as far as Greenville SC, and Greensboro NC, so theres that. I think they tend to look for a certain level of affluence/youth in the metro areas they choose too. The college, post-college demographic is probably very important to them.
How do you explain Salt Lake City having an IKEA? Their metro population has less than 2 million. I agree, it has to do with demographics and large population of youth.
Salt Lake City's Combined Statistical Area (includes Provo and Orem) has a population of 2,350,274 with a +3.46% growth rate. Jacksonville's Combined Statistical Area (includes Palatka and Camden County, GA) has a population of 1,502,515, with a growth rate of +2.18%.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Combined_Statistical_Areas
Quote from: simms3 on March 10, 2014, 10:24:31 PM
The other aspect that works for IKEA is not the name branding, but the country branding. Swedish is "in" right now. I can tell you, as a Swede, that most of the food served in IKEA or sold in the food store near check out is CRAP. I will not touch those nasty meat balls and half of the food sold in the Swedish grocer is not really Swedish at all...often American crap with a Swedish name. I continue to buy their furniture, however, and the general look and feel of IKEA seems plenty contemporary Swedish to me (or Euro in general).
Although IKEA household products and furniture are designed in Sweden, they are largely manufactured in developing countries to keep costs down. China accounts for about 2½ times as much supply as Sweden.
Quote from: simms3 on March 10, 2014, 10:24:31 PM
The Bos-Wash corridor is also pretty dry for the dozens of millions of people it has.
So having 11 stores between those two cities is considered dry?
Quote from: tufsu1 on March 11, 2014, 10:20:30 AM
Quote from: simms3 on March 10, 2014, 10:24:31 PM
The Bos-Wash corridor is also pretty dry for the dozens of millions of people it has.
So having 11 stores between those two cities is considered dry?
50 million or so people, so they would need at least 20 more stores in that area before getting to the population per store of a Jacksonville location.
The other thing to consider is shopping habits. I believe Orlando has a store because of Jax, and that it draws all of N FL, including two large college towns.
However, if Jax gets a store, it dilutes the N FL customer base, so that it really is a borderline 2 million person demographic for each city (and not necessarily within 30-40 miles). What Jax store won't capture is points further north. Atlanta will always be the go-to for virtually all errands for Savannah, Charleston, Macon, Columbus, Augusta, Columbia SC, Montgomery AL, etc etc. When they go to shop IKEA in Atlanta, they can get other chores/shopping errands done and make a trip of it (restaurants, activities, and nightlife they cannot get in their own towns nor can they really get in Jax, either). Atlanta will probably get a 2nd store as a result before Jax gets a single store. My guess.
Also, Salt Lake City is actually a much larger metro than Jax. Anyone who has flown in to ski or visit some national parks or just to go quickly realizes this. Their MSA should be what their CSA is, it's all highly connected (by rail I might add), not to mention they are the only large metro area for a large geography that also includes Boise, ID and other western towns. As the hub of Mormon land (with 2 large universities in the city to boot), SLC's pull is massive. SLC, Denver, and Boise are all rapidly growing, highly progressive cities by American standards, with relatively excellent transit and pedestrian cultures and booming urban cores. I put them all on another level (not to get too off topic - but each is worth a visit, I have yet to go to Denver). No surprise that SLC has an IKEA, as does Denver. As does Sacramento, which is a much larger metro than Jax as well with very consistent development between it and the Bay Area (so Sac is a pull for North Bay and some East Bay customers and there are millions more in that area than NE FL). Same with Portland and Seattle - each is a much larger hub than Jax for a larger region than NEFL and each has no immediate competition (like Orlando AND Atlanta are to Jax).
Quote from: simms3 on March 11, 2014, 11:32:30 AM
The other thing to consider is shopping habits. I believe Orlando has a store because of Jax, and that it draws all of N FL, including two large college towns.
Orlando could easily support a store regardless of if Jax existed or not. When I worked in Lakeland, they used to promote that they were in the center of everything because there was something like 7 million people living within a 100-mile radius of that city. Add the amount of tourist drawn to that region on an annual basis and that consumer market really swells. With that in mind, a few years after the Orlando IKEA opened, a second Central Florida store opened in Tampa, which is roughly 1-1.5 hours or so down the street.
Quote from: thelakelander on March 11, 2014, 12:13:15 PM
When I worked in Lakeland, they used to promote that they were in the center of everything because there was something like 7 million people living within a 100-mile radius of that city.
Fun fact: For this very reason, Lakeland was briefly in the discussion during the 1970s as a potential home for an NFL franchise (as was a shared team between Jacksonville and Orlando, the Florida Suns).
Many of the retailers that Jax don't get are too big for the market. However alot of other stores & restaurants that comes from west and north that heads to Northern Florida first. Like REI, and Academy. Just balancing out the 'we never get this & that' stuff.
No balancing needed. Jax gets what a community its true size gets. It is what it is. When places that aren't presently here deem the market is ready for them to expand and be successful in, they'll come. In the meantime, we don't have to waste time and energy trying to figure out how to land something by seeing if people from Valdosta and Lake City will drive over an hour out of their way to help keep it open.
^^^No argument here.
It's not just market size, either. As has been touched on, it's tourism, it's disposable income, it's how disposable income is spent (some cities are just more fashion or design conscious than others while other cities are budget conscious no matter how much disposable income there is), it's trade area and local/regional competition, it's site selection if all of the other boxes are checked.
Honestly, if Jax were 2.5 million people in its MSA, maybe there just isn't a proper site for IKEA to settle on! So many factors at play.
I think generally speaking, Jax is a small MSA that is too close to too many larger MSAs, and there isn't a lot of tourist or business/convention traffic, no sizable student population, and too much housing-backed wealth, which is shaky in NE FL (there isn't a lot of highly liquid wealth in the area, which is why there isn't much in terms of high end shopping, restaurants, or amenities). The wealthy that do call Jax home have no problem traveling up to NYC or down to Miami for various things, and the lower/middle class aren't likely as great of target profile demographics for IKEA (there is a noticeable difference in the average Jax resident and the average middle/lower middle income resident of other metros, for instance).
Jax will get a Crate & Barrel before Ikea, but is still 5-10 years out from that. Crate & Barrel is probably taking note of Nordstrom going in at SJTC, and they probably like the demographics and cotenancy there. IKEA could give a shit about all that and wants space, high visibility, high centrality, and extremely good access with room to put in structured parking and easy access to all residents in a region. JTB may not be the best corridor for them, but then where else do they go? Where along 95? Perhaps that site at University where the motel was demo'd? Maybe not large enough and a reputable developer would need to come in and back the transformation of that intersection.
Not that I think they will come or really care quite frankly as would much prefer a Crate & Barrel. But if on 95 how about where the Bass Pro is going in or the World Golf Village intersection.
Quote from: simms3 on March 11, 2014, 03:40:27 PM
Honestly, if Jax were 2.5 million people in its MSA, maybe there just isn't a proper site for IKEA to settle on! So many factors at play.
This is true. Macy's is a good example. The market is present but there are other factors at play.
Memphis is announcing IKEA coming there tomorrow, so there goes the population argument.
Quote from: fsquid on December 15, 2014, 03:57:34 PM
Memphis is announcing IKEA coming there tomorrow, so there goes the population argument.
Surprising.
I know Nashville (a bigger, faster-growing MSA) has been pushing for an IKEA for the last few years without luck.
Quote from: KenFSU on December 15, 2014, 04:16:32 PM
Quote from: fsquid on December 15, 2014, 03:57:34 PM
Memphis is announcing IKEA coming there tomorrow, so there goes the population argument.
Surprising.
I know Nashville (a bigger, faster-growing MSA) has been pushing for an IKEA for the last few years without luck.
which makes it all more hilarious to me.
Quote from: fsquid on December 15, 2014, 03:57:34 PM
Memphis is announcing IKEA coming there tomorrow, so there goes the population argument.
What's the trade area? Are there any other IKEAs within a 2 hour drive of Memphis?
Quote from: thelakelander on December 15, 2014, 05:15:40 PM
Quote from: fsquid on December 15, 2014, 03:57:34 PM
Memphis is announcing IKEA coming there tomorrow, so there goes the population argument.
What's the trade area? Are there any other IKEAs within a 2 hour drive of Memphis?
nope, either Atlanta or St. Louis.
On the whole, I'd rather get a Crate and Barrel over an Ikea. While Ikea may have some good things, I think Crate and Barrel has higher quality items that you don't have to put together.
For disclosure purposes, I do have a wall of (Ikea) Billy bookcases with glass doors and they look great but the last time I went to Ikea nothing grabbed my attention and all I could think of was, "this would look better in someone's dorm room than my home."
Yeah, they seem to be shooting for a geographical-population balance in their markets before they work on density. There are 9 stores between Washington DC and Boston. Four in Florida; Tampa, Orlando, Sunrise and Miami, the Miami and Sunrise (Fort Lauderdale - West) stores are very close.
Lakelander,
Your comment:
"This is true. Macy's is a good example. The market is present but there are other factors at play."
Is quite true as it comes to Macy's. About a year ago I was in Savannah and a Macy's Manager who looks into site searches was having dinner beside me. He said Macy's wants to come. The big obstacle is they do not want to enter markets with one store (no more Savannah's, Tallahassee's ect.) and other than SJTC, there is no other suitable site. Orange Park is full, Oak Leaf/RCMP not their kind of location. When a new mall was planned for St. John county, they were more interested. Many things come into play as you said.
Macy's at Regency would do wonders for that mall.
Sources also say Memphis would be IKEA's smallest market and that FedEx's international shipping operation was a big draw.
http://www.nbc12.com/story/27632790/ikea-may-be-coming-to-memphis
FedEx and Founder/CEO Fred Smith do a lot for Memphis, who knows what kind of arrangement they made to draw Ikea. That and a lack of another Ikea in proximity, make it an apples to oranges comparison to Jax. The fact that they are willing to open in a smaller market is definitely good news for Jax though.
Great. So all we need is a distribution hub the size of FedEx and we're on our way! Sounds simple enough...
Quote from: jaxjags on December 15, 2014, 07:37:41 PM
Lakelander,
Your comment:
"This is true. Macy's is a good example. The market is present but there are other factors at play."
Is quite true as it comes to Macy's. About a year ago I was in Savannah and a Macy's Manager who looks into site searches was having dinner beside me. He said Macy's wants to come. The big obstacle is they do not want to enter markets with one store (no more Savannah's, Tallahassee's ect.) and other than SJTC, there is no other suitable site. Orange Park is full, Oak Leaf/RCMP not their kind of location. When a new mall was planned for St. John county, they were more interested. Many things come into play as you said.
My prediction is Macy's will enter the market when either Sears or JCPenney closes one or more of their local stores. That would free up potential space at both Orange Park and Avenues.
Quote from: fsujax on December 15, 2014, 08:32:34 PM
Macy's at Regency would do wonders for that mall.
Unfortunately for Regency, Macy's isn't in the business of raising malls from the dead. That's a job for storefront churches and furniture stores!
Quote from: thelakelander on December 15, 2014, 09:34:25 PM
Great. So all we need is a distribution hub the size of FedEx and we're on our way! Sounds simple enough...
there's a ton of land at the airport.......
There's a ton of land at the shipyards..*wishful thinking* for a Macy's and a ton of surface parking in the stadium lots for an Ikea. If I were Khan I'd totally consider building new garages and retail to activate that surface parking and create a synergy with my new Shipyards development. But I'm just me, and he's just him. A billionaire ;)
Quote from: fsujax on December 15, 2014, 08:32:34 PM
Macy's at Regency would do wonders for that mall.
So would a fleet of bulldozers and some well engineered explosives!
That market drastically shifted when the 1950's bungalows throughout Arlington became terribly out dated, far smaller then modern homes and cheap to purchase. Lower income people that had/have previously lived in rentals now have an opportunity at a nice small home at an affordable price. That urban shift has driven the last nails in Regency ever getting Macy's, Sac's, or anything else beyond what the Gateway Mall already offers.
Orange Park/Flemming/Oak Leaf are the huge sleeper in the mall game in the Florida Crown, more so then St. Johns IMO. It's a booming area with a dominant rising middle income population with one mall, it it is not exactly the Ritz. It wouldn't surprise me as the economy turns to see a new TC sprout there and St. Johns.
Transportation Hub? For surface transportation we are about as close as it gets though our through truck volume is less then Lake City's (I-75). Don't dismiss air in Jacksonville as Cecil is a freaking amazing facility incredibly underutilized. Who knows what that future holds?
I'm going to pull a Stephendare here....
I'm hearing that IKEA may have changed their mind on Jax. Stay tuned.... ;)
It's night of the living thread....
I went to the one in Sunrise, eh...I really like their pear cider though.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 06, 2015, 05:10:05 PM
I'm going to pull a Stephendare here....
I'm hearing that IKEA may have changed their mind on Jax. I'll update everyone shortly.... ;)
Fixed! ;)
Here's a hint. If things materialize they won't be downtown....
Guessing either the Town Center or RCMP
Quote from: thelakelander on October 06, 2015, 05:20:16 PM
Here's a hint. If things materialize they won't be downtown....
SHOCKER
Quote from: thelakelander on October 06, 2015, 05:10:05 PM
I'm going to pull a Stephendare here....
I'm hearing that IKEA may have changed their mind on Jax. Stay tuned.... ;)
Cryptic
I am guessing south...near I-95 and St Johns County line near the new 795 extension.
Ikea is building a store in Memphis and they have an even smaller MSA than Jax.
This is true jaxdan3!
40 (US ranking) Jacksonville MSA 1,419,127 (2014 population) +5.46% (2010-2014 growth rate)
41 (US ranking) Memphis MSA 1,343,230 (2014 population) +1.39% (2010-2014 growth rate)
(http://thyblackman.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/stephen-a-smith-2015.jpg)
Soon :)
Regency? 8)
Umm.....
(http://www.cadredc.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Homey-D-Clown1.gif)
no
I'm surprised IKEA has not developed a smaller store concept for smaller markets. I'm convinced the Jacksonville market could support an IKEA store of some size, maybe not the gigantic store like the one in Orlando, but a profitable one nonetheless.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 06, 2015, 05:20:16 PM
Here's a hint. If things materialize they won't be downtown....
Well that would be a shame because I think an Ikea in La Villa or Mixon Town would have been perfect. Easy regional access by Interstate, cheap land, lots of empty old warehouse space that could be converted into a store, tax incentives, and nearby available workforce would be their's for the taking.
Think the location and reputation of the area would a turn-off for Ikea? Look at their super-successful stores in Elizabeth, NJ and Brooklyn. The Jersey store is by an isolated noisy freight terminal by the airport surrounded by more abandoned shipping containers that households but has great Turnpike access. The Brooklyn store is in a gritty mixed-income industrial part of Red Hook with regular ferry service.
Both stores were catalysts for other retail and in the case of Red Hook's Ikea really turn around the perceptions of that neighborhood making it one of Brooklyn's trendier and more desirable areas.
Man, Ennis, you waste no time in making things happen!
http://jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=546277
Ha. I know the location. However, I going to let the chamber have their day!
I thought you all were kidding. Landing an IKEA is something I didn't think would ever happen. Great news for our area and it will certainly attract people from Southeast GA as well as Northeast FL and get them to spend money here rather than in Orlando.
It's gotta be Town Center or RCMP.
This is surprising. It wasn't THAT long ago that they opened in Atlanta.
Where's Duval Dude? Can he eat his words?
Great to hear for Jacksonville. Our Pro Football team may suck, but at least we have an IKEA!
Is the Bass Pro Shops still a go? Seems like that would be an option (Duval/St. John's line)
This is pretty cool. I know Ikea is not everyone's cup of tea but I enjoy stopping at the Atlanta location when I am there.
QuoteIKEA to open store in Jacksonville
IKEA, the popular home furnishings retailer with 41 locations in the U.S., will announce plans this morning to open one of its trendy superstores in Jacksonville.
The company, based in Sweden, said in a news release it will detail the location, size, employment and targeted opening date at a 10:30 a.m. news conference at the JAX Chamber Downtown.
IKEA representatives, Mayor Lenny Curry and JAX Chamber President Daniel Davis will attend, according to the release issued late Tuesday.
No legislation has been filed for taxpayer incentives for the project.
IKEA said it is expanding its presence in Florida and the Southeast. Its four Florida stores are in Orlando, Tampa, Sunrise and Sweetwater. The only Georgia store is in Atlanta.
For a sense of what to expect, Florida's newest IKEA is a 416,000-square-foot store in Sweetwater that opened in August 2014 with more than 350 employees, according to Miamiherald.com. The IKEA occupies 14.6 acres, with nearly 1,500 parking spaces, next to the Dolphin Mall off the Florida Turnpike.
Spokesman Joseph Roth said last year that IKEA buys its sites, which average 20-30 acres, and builds its stores, which are 350,000 to 450,000 square feet in size. Sites are along interstates for the greatest visibility and access.
Roth did not return a phone call about 9 p.m. last night.
Roth was responding last year to questions whether IKEA would want to operate at the struggling Regency Square Mall. He said it wasn't, further explaining that the company seeks sites with a population of at least 2 million people within 40-60 miles.
That seemed to rule out Jacksonville. The seven-county area of Northeast Florida was projected to reach 1.7 million people by 2020.
However, Roth said then the company was always evaluating major population areas where it didn't have a store.
The growth and success of the St. Johns Town Center at Interstate 295, Butler Boulevard and Gate Parkway, has attracted more retailers and development to Northeast Florida. Property remains available in the Town Center area, as well as along I-295 and I-95 throughout Duval County.
IKEA Group's total sales amounted to $35.7 billion in the year that ended Aug. 31. IKEA Group operates 328 stores in 28 countries. There also are more than 40 IKEA stores run by franchises. The company was founded in 1943.
One of the company's most recent developments sheds more light on the company's size and strategy.
On Sept. 1, IKEA broke ground in Burbank, Calif., to build a larger store less than a mile from an existing location, which will close when the new store opens.
The new store should open in spring 2017, indicating an estimated 18-month construction timeframe.
The new location will be 456,000 square feet on 22 acres, almost double the size of the older store that opened in 1990. That location already employs 400 people, which IKEA refers to as "coworkers."
The new IKEA Burbank will feature more of the almost 10,000 exclusively designed items, 50 room-settings, three model-home interiors, a supervised children's play area, and a 600-seat restaurant serving Swedish specialties.
It also includes a "Children's IKEA" area in the showroom, baby-care rooms and play areas throughout the store.
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=546277
I know many may not think so, but it is a game changer. Jacksonville is on the map now. Ikea is very selective with their stores and other business will follow.
No, wait, video boards you can see from space are a game changer. Not an Ikea store, lol.
Poor Mayor Brown, Curry got something done he could not over the last 4 years. What else can we expect over the next 4 or 8 years? Hopefully we get solid product the entire time.
QuoteNo legislation has been filed for taxpayer incentives for the project.
nice
Quote from: mtraininjax on October 07, 2015, 08:49:47 AM
No, wait, video boards you can see from space are a game changer. Not an Ikea store, lol.
Poor Mayor Brown, Curry got something done he could not over the last 4 years. What else can we expect over the next 4 or 8 years? Hopefully we get solid product the entire time.
This is silly it isn't about Brown or Curry. This is about the the SJTC and RCMP being ultra successful and people taking notice. Now that success happened under Brown but that doesn't mean he should get the credit either.
Could Jacksonville really get an Ikea before San Marco gets a Publix?
Great scoop, Ennis, and a really awesome development for Jacksonville.
Wonderful news!! I'm ready to shop!
Well shazam! We're FINALLY a 'big league' city!
Quote from: blfair on October 07, 2015, 09:20:07 AM
Could Jacksonville really get an Ikea before San Marco gets a Publix?
Haha.....yes.
I would like to see it go in by the airport. To me that would be smarter than the Town Center. Yes, the Town center is kind of off a highway, but on the North side, it would be right by 295 and 95 and close to 10 as well. Plus, all the air port traffic would boost extra attendance. But, I am almost 95% sure the announcement will be the Town Center area.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 07, 2015, 09:35:45 AM
Quote from: blfair on October 07, 2015, 09:20:07 AM
Could Jacksonville really get an Ikea before San Marco gets a Publix?
Haha.....yes.
They'll both beat the Fuddruckers at the Landing.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on October 07, 2015, 09:37:52 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on October 07, 2015, 09:35:45 AM
Quote from: blfair on October 07, 2015, 09:20:07 AM
Could Jacksonville really get an Ikea before San Marco gets a Publix?
Haha.....yes.
They'll both beat the Fuddruckers at the Landing.
and Moonyham will be bringing up the rear.
Yes, we can all now go buy cheap particleboard furniture together!
Arguably the biggest single store retail aquisition in modern Jax history.
I would be shocked if it wasn't close to SJTC. UNF students will be a huge user of IKEA, not to mention the Southside, SJC, and Beaches will be big draws for IKEA. They would be foolish to alienate their local base by locating by the airport.
Quote from: CityLife on October 07, 2015, 09:58:19 AM
Arguably the biggest single store retail aquisition in modern Jax history.
I would be shocked if it wasn't close to SJTC. UNF students will be a huge user of IKEA, not to mention the Southside, SJC, and Beaches will be big draws for IKEA. They would be foolish to alienate their local base by locating by the airport.
Agreed! This is a big acquisition for the city. I lived in Gainesville for many years, my friends and I would routinely drive to Orlando just to shop at the IKEA store. People will travel just to shop at the store.
Anyone know where I can stream the press conference?
Gate and I-295 is the location.
Gate Parkway and I295
Quote from: KenFSU on October 07, 2015, 10:23:53 AM
Gate and I-295 is the location.
Somehow even worse than my fears of the Town Center.
Quote from: JeffreyS on October 07, 2015, 10:30:06 AM
Gate Parkway and I295
Well, time to start making plans to add additional lanes to both of those roads.
(http://i.imgur.com/UJVLPwf.jpg)
Easily accessible for those driving in from surrounding regions like Gainesville, Daytona/Palm Coast, Brunswick, etc. The core of all these places are within a 60-70 mile radius of Jax. Add the numbers up with ours and you get close or exceed that 2 million mark mentioned years ago.
Quote from: fsquid on October 07, 2015, 09:57:54 AM
Yes, we can all now go buy cheap particleboard furniture together!
They make wood furniture as well. And metal stuff.
Quote from: Todd_Parker on October 07, 2015, 10:33:12 AM
Quote from: JeffreyS on October 07, 2015, 10:30:06 AM
Gate Parkway and I295
Well, time to start making plans to add additional lanes to both of those roads.
Already planned! Roadway widening should start soon: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2015-jul-i-295-east-beltway-being-expanded-to-12-lanes
Quote from: Adam White on October 07, 2015, 10:38:38 AM
Quote from: fsquid on October 07, 2015, 09:57:54 AM
Yes, we can all now go buy cheap particleboard furniture together!
They make wood furniture as well. And metal stuff.
and meatballs!
(https://www.brandwatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/ikea.meatballs.jpg)
That's about as close to SJTC as one can reasonably expect them to put an IKEA.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 07, 2015, 10:37:27 AM
Easily accessible for those driving in from surrounding regions like Gainesville, Daytona/Palm Coast, Brunswick, etc. The core of all these places are within a 60-70 mile radius of Jax. Add the numbers up with ours and you get close or exceed that 2 million mark mentioned years ago.
Same would be true if it was actually at Town Center. Sometimes, we stop at Ikea on our way to Disney with the kids. We are normally drawn to spend a bit more money at the adjacent shops and restaurants, because they are right there. Sometimes we stop at the Ikea in ATL, but we don't spend extra money, because it is not as convenient.
I think this separation is just far enough from SJTC that we will be missing out on a big chunk of money that could be spent in our city.
Quote from: FSBA on October 07, 2015, 10:44:22 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on October 07, 2015, 10:40:33 AM
Quote from: Adam White on October 07, 2015, 10:38:38 AM
Quote from: fsquid on October 07, 2015, 09:57:54 AM
Yes, we can all now go buy cheap particleboard furniture together!
They make wood furniture as well. And metal stuff.
and meatballs!
RIP Swedish Bistro food truck
LOL, the one that was only around for like 4 months?
Quote from: InnerCityPressure on October 07, 2015, 10:46:54 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on October 07, 2015, 10:37:27 AM
Easily accessible for those driving in from surrounding regions like Gainesville, Daytona/Palm Coast, Brunswick, etc. The core of all these places are within a 60-70 mile radius of Jax. Add the numbers up with ours and you get close or exceed that 2 million mark mentioned years ago.
Same would be true if it was actually at Town Center. Sometimes, we stop at Ikea on our way to Disney with the kids. We are normally drawn to spend a bit more money at the adjacent shops and restaurants, because they are right there. Sometimes we stop at the Ikea in ATL, but we don't spend extra money, because it is not as convenient.
I think this separation is just far enough from SJTC that we will be missing out on a big chunk of money that could be spent in our city.
It's closer to the SJTC than the Orlando IKEA is to Disney. It's about as close to the actual town center as it can possibly be. IKEA takes up a pretty big chunk of space. You couldn't squeeze an IKEA into the actual shopping center without demolishing a good portion of it.
Quote from: Adam White on October 07, 2015, 10:38:38 AM
Quote from: fsquid on October 07, 2015, 09:57:54 AM
Yes, we can all now go buy cheap particleboard furniture together!
They make wood furniture as well. And metal stuff.
And, also meat stuff. I'm more likely to go for lunch than I am for a dining table.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 07, 2015, 10:53:07 AM
Quote from: InnerCityPressure on October 07, 2015, 10:46:54 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on October 07, 2015, 10:37:27 AM
Easily accessible for those driving in from surrounding regions like Gainesville, Daytona/Palm Coast, Brunswick, etc. The core of all these places are within a 60-70 mile radius of Jax. Add the numbers up with ours and you get close or exceed that 2 million mark mentioned years ago.
Same would be true if it was actually at Town Center. Sometimes, we stop at Ikea on our way to Disney with the kids. We are normally drawn to spend a bit more money at the adjacent shops and restaurants, because they are right there. Sometimes we stop at the Ikea in ATL, but we don't spend extra money, because it is not as convenient.
I think this separation is just far enough from SJTC that we will be missing out on a big chunk of money that could be spent in our city.
It's closer to the SJTC than the Orlando IKEA is to Disney. It's about as close to the actual town center as it can possibly be. IKEA takes up a pretty big chunk of space. You couldn't squeeze an IKEA into the actual shopping center without demolishing a good portion of it.
Plus, the potential for business expansion in the area around Point Meadows and Gate Parkway will bring additional developments. Could you imagine a SJTC South?
Quote from: thelakelander on October 07, 2015, 10:53:07 AM
It's closer to the SJTC than the Orlando IKEA is to Disney. It's about as close to the actual town center as it can possibly be. IKEA takes up a pretty big chunk of space. You couldn't squeeze an IKEA into the actual shopping center without demolishing a good portion of it.
I was referencing Ikea's proximity to Mall at Millennia. I guess Disney was unnecessary information...other than the need I felt to give a valid excuse as to why I was in Orlando ;)
Quote from: InnerCityPressure on October 07, 2015, 10:46:54 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on October 07, 2015, 10:37:27 AM
Easily accessible for those driving in from surrounding regions like Gainesville, Daytona/Palm Coast, Brunswick, etc. The core of all these places are within a 60-70 mile radius of Jax. Add the numbers up with ours and you get close or exceed that 2 million mark mentioned years ago.
Same would be true if it was actually at Town Center. Sometimes, we stop at Ikea on our way to Disney with the kids. We are normally drawn to spend a bit more money at the adjacent shops and restaurants, because they are right there. Sometimes we stop at the Ikea in ATL, but we don't spend extra money, because it is not as convenient.
I think this separation is just far enough from SJTC that we will be missing out on a big chunk of money that could be spent in our city.
I am sure this will spur some development on that side of JTB. There alot of empty parcels in that area.
Are Top Golf, the new DB Headquarters, and IKEA all going to be on this same stretch of Gate between the FBI building and 295? I'm having trouble keeping it all straight.
Quote from: Adam White on October 07, 2015, 10:38:38 AM
Quote from: fsquid on October 07, 2015, 09:57:54 AM
Yes, we can all now go buy cheap particleboard furniture together!
They make wood furniture as well. And metal stuff.
Plus, for the price (i.e. if you do not want to spend $1000s on a piece of furniture) I find the quality to be quite good (especially compared to what you get at other furniture stores for the same price), at least over here in Europe. Their mattresses are pretty nice, as well.
My major problem with Ikea stuff, the particle board stuff any way, is that when it breaks it's basically impossible to repair. You might as throw it out. It's fine for what it is, but when I have the money I'm going to buy real furniture.
But this is a huge grab for Jax. I know I pointed this out before, but if you extend their 60 mile radius to 70 we'll be at the golden 2 million population. Plus we can bring in folks from southern Georgia and northern Florida where there will never be a store.
Quote from: InnerCityPressure on October 07, 2015, 11:08:49 AM
I was referencing Ikea's proximity to Mall at Millennia. I guess Disney was unnecessary information...other than the need I felt to give a valid excuse as to why I was in Orlando ;)
I see your point. I do always stop at keke's breakfast cafe before or after an Ikea visit. Mmmmm, buffalo chicken omelette.
Quote from: FSBA on October 07, 2015, 10:44:22 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on October 07, 2015, 10:40:33 AM
Quote from: Adam White on October 07, 2015, 10:38:38 AM
Quote from: fsquid on October 07, 2015, 09:57:54 AM
Yes, we can all now go buy cheap particleboard furniture together!
They make wood furniture as well. And metal stuff.
and meatballs!
RIP Swedish Bistro food truck
That would be sad. Never had the Swedish Bistro, but have Swedish heritage and grew up eating Swedish food, including homemade Swedish meatballs, and I can't even smell Ikea's version of them, they are so bad. Last time I went into Ikea, though, it seemed the food court was trying less to be "Swedish" and included more "Americanized" food, like pizza and flatbread sandwiches. Ikea also got rid of many of the food staples my family found convenient buying in their general store near checkout that were hard to find in the US otherwise...definitely not as Swedish as they used to be perhaps, which could bode well for the food truck, which did look so good in pictures when MJ showcased it a couple years back.
(https://memecrunch.com/meme/A05RA/pkea-robot-jax/image.jpg?w=500&c=1)
Time to change the thread title?
Quote from: InnerCityPressure on October 07, 2015, 11:08:49 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on October 07, 2015, 10:53:07 AM
It's closer to the SJTC than the Orlando IKEA is to Disney. It's about as close to the actual town center as it can possibly be. IKEA takes up a pretty big chunk of space. You couldn't squeeze an IKEA into the actual shopping center without demolishing a good portion of it.
I was referencing Ikea's proximity to Mall at Millennia. I guess Disney was unnecessary information...other than the need I felt to give a valid excuse as to why I was in Orlando ;)
Don't worry. The surrounding properties will be developed before you know it. Just look at Town Center Parkway. All of that is new development that was built after 2005.
Quote from: Tacachale on October 07, 2015, 12:30:14 PM
I know I pointed this out before, but if you extend their 60 mile radius to 70 we'll be at the golden 2 million population. Plus we can bring in folks from southern Georgia and northern Florida where there will never be a store.
Excluding rural counties, here's the 2014 population of the Jax, Gainesville, Brunswick and Daytona (includes Palm Coast) MSAs:
1,419,127 - Jacksonville MSA (2014 population)
609,939 - Deltona/Daytona Beach/Ormond Beach MSA (89.1 miles between DT Daytona and DT Jax)
273,377 - Gainesville MSA (71.6 miles between DT Gainesville and DT Jax)
114,806 - Brunswick MSA (69.4 miles between DT Brunswick and DT Jax)
2,417,249 - Combined 2014 population
Who is the franchisee?
Quote from: stephendare on October 07, 2015, 02:15:35 PM
hmm. looks like Jax was bigger than you thought, lake. Lol.
Not really. Over three years have passed since that quote. Our region has grown a lot since then and so have the smaller MSAs within an hour's drive of our market. In reality, draw a 60 mile circle around Ikea's selected site and you're probably close to that 2 million number today. It's just not all Jax by itself.
Btw, also read my 2012 quote. I clearly stated there were some exceptions. Charlotte and Austin were approaching 2 million. Both have passed that mark in 2015.
Charlotte 2014 MSA population - 2,380,314 (1,795,472 - 2011)
Austin 2014 MSA population - 1,943,299 (1,783,519 - 2011)
Give it another three years, and you'll find another host of cities approaching 2 million within a 60 mile radius.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 07, 2015, 01:18:41 PM
Quote from: InnerCityPressure on October 07, 2015, 11:08:49 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on October 07, 2015, 10:53:07 AM
It's closer to the SJTC than the Orlando IKEA is to Disney. It's about as close to the actual town center as it can possibly be. IKEA takes up a pretty big chunk of space. You couldn't squeeze an IKEA into the actual shopping center without demolishing a good portion of it.
I was referencing Ikea's proximity to Mall at Millennia. I guess Disney was unnecessary information...other than the need I felt to give a valid excuse as to why I was in Orlando ;)
Don't worry. The surrounding properties will be developed before you know it. Just look at Town Center Parkway. All of that is new development that was built after 2005.
I believe the Ikea site is part of the same 140 acre tract that Top Golf is also building on. Owned by the Skinner family. I had heard a few months back that they were working on a top secret project, but would have never guessed IKEA. I'm pretty sure there is another very cool business snooping around that area as well.
Take an aerial of the land south of JTB and east of 295 right now and compare it to what it will look like in 10 years. Going to be a massive amount of growth in that direction in the coming years.
Quote from: stephendare on October 07, 2015, 02:37:08 PM
hmm. interesting prediction. ;)
Quote from: tufsu1 on March 10, 2014, 01:10:01 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on March 10, 2014, 12:08:10 PM
Quote from: Ocklawaha on March 10, 2014, 11:26:30 AM
We may be a few numbers short, but I think incentives, mail orders and those communities closer to Jax then any other store could push us over the top pretty easily. What is the closest store to Tallahassee? What's the MSA population? Add just those closer ones and you hit the 2 million mark with some to spare.
Waycross MSA 50,000
Camden County MSA 50,000
Valdosta MSA 140,000
Lake City MSA 67,000
Gainesville MSA 260,000
567,000 more easily within the trade area.
This is not a situation where IKEA (or anybody else) wants to 'stay out of Jax.' They are in business to make money, they have a formula, and if we can show that we meet that grade, we're in. If IKEA finds a hot market for ultra-modern isn't even a consideration, with a segment of our city considered lower wage, they'll blow Wal-Mart out of the water on those little things like dinnerware, baskets, curtains etc.. They'll come, just don't worry if it's not announced tomorrow.
Gainesville? That population is just as likely to drive to an existing store in metro Tampa or Orlando. Stretching to include Valdosta/Tallahassee as a part of your core market demographics? We're really in trouble.
sorry Ock, but the article is pretty clear on what IKEA considers its core market area...
"Roth explained that when IKEA looks for a site, it needs a population of at least 2 million people within 40-60 miles or within 40-60 minutes of drive-time."
given this, Lake City, Palm Coast and Gainesville are out...and south Georgia and Palatka might also not work depending on location.
It takes me 45 minutes to get from my condo off I-95 and JTB to my Daytona area office in Ormond Beach on I-95. I regularly reach I-4 in 60 minutes from JTB, during my drives to DeLand and Orlando for work. Be thankful for sprawl growth ;) over the last couple of years. Adding Palm Coast, St. Marys, Brunswick, the Daytona areas alone probably gets 2 million within that 60 mile/minute drive mark by 2017.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 07, 2015, 10:40:33 AM
Quote from: Adam White on October 07, 2015, 10:38:38 AM
Quote from: fsquid on October 07, 2015, 09:57:54 AM
Yes, we can all now go buy cheap particleboard furniture together!
They make wood furniture as well. And metal stuff.
and horsemeat balls!
(https://www.brandwatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/ikea.meatballs.jpg)
FIFY
^ Still delicious.
My first visit to IKEA was in Malaysia as a little kid and seriously they had amazing chicken curry. So that's my first thought when I think of the store, not meatballs.
Quote from: johnnyliar on October 07, 2015, 05:05:58 PM
^ Still delicious.
Hey, no argument there. Of course, I'm not "Swedish".
Jax is still 'underachieving, resting on our laurels, and getting left in the dust' because this IKEA isn't gonna be downtown, amirite???
Okay I'm late to the party, IKEA will be out SJTC. People think that it's bad now, traffic is gonna be crazy out there.
Quote from: I-10east on October 07, 2015, 07:05:30 PM
Okay I'm late to the party, IKEA will be out SJTC. People think that it's bad now, traffic is gonna be crazy out there.
They are back to harvesting the remaining trees on the Skinner properties at SJTC again. The agent and developer have put up new signs. With Top Golf signed up and Red Robin on the way and Books A Million right behind them, now Ikea, it is going to be crazy come Christmas in 2017.
The "success" of SJTC may be their undoing in the future.
Quote from: I-10east on October 07, 2015, 06:20:01 PM
Jax is still 'underachieving, resting on our laurels, and getting left in the dust' because this IKEA isn't gonna be downtown, amirite???
I am actually cool with Ikea not being DT. It would be awesome if DT could keep a more local vibe like Charleston or Savannah. They have their share of chains, but for the most part, you are getting a unique experience. In ATL, I can go to Ikea or TJ Maxx or Maggianos anywhere. I don't care if there is a location DT. Give me a unique DT and keep the chains where they belong. I'm all good with how this worked out. Still a nice, new flow of people coming through our city and everyone from Gainesville, Tallahassee and Savannah are going to pass the core to get there. The new mission of the core is to get them to stop instead of spending their day shopping in the burbs.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Transit/Aerial-Trams/Aerial-Transit-and-Trams/i-9PLsrDq/0/XL/aerial%20tram-11-XL.jpg)
CONNECT IT! Where there is a will, there is a way.
(This one is in Portland Oregon)
Why would IKEA be so willing to include Volusia County in Jacksonville's market? With them being in the Orlando market for so long I would figure most IKEA shoppers would stick with Orlando.
Quote from: FSBA on October 07, 2015, 10:32:09 PM
Why would IKEA be so willing to include Volusia County in Jacksonville's market? With them being in the Orlando market for so long I would figure most IKEA shoppers would stick with Orlando.
I-4 and Orlando traffic. I have had co-workers commute to Jax for work that lived in Volusia county over the last few years. In fact, the company has an office in Orlando and they preferred driving to Jax.
Yeah. I-95 is a breeze compared with I-4, especially south of DT Orlando. Also, much of the Daytona market's growth is happening in Ormond Beach and Palm Coast. The actual City of Daytona Beach has been stagnant, in terms of population growth, for years.
I loved this earlier comment in the thread from March 11, 2014:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,16025.msg368290.html#msg368290
QuoteIt's not just market size, either. As has been touched on, it's tourism, it's disposable income, it's how disposable income is spent (some cities are just more fashion or design conscious than others while other cities are budget conscious no matter how much disposable income there is), it's trade area and local/regional competition, it's site selection if all of the other boxes are checked.
Honestly, if Jax were 2.5 million people in its MSA, maybe there just isn't a proper site for IKEA to settle on! So many factors at play.
I think generally speaking, Jax is a small MSA that is too close to too many larger MSAs, and there isn't a lot of tourist or business/convention traffic, no sizable student population, and too much housing-backed wealth, which is shaky in NE FL (there isn't a lot of highly liquid wealth in the area, which is why there isn't much in terms of high end shopping, restaurants, or amenities). The wealthy that do call Jax home have no problem traveling up to NYC or down to Miami for various things, and the lower/middle class aren't likely as great of target profile demographics for IKEA (there is a noticeable difference in the average Jax resident and the average middle/lower middle income resident of other metros, for instance).
Jax will get a Crate & Barrel before Ikea, but is still 5-10 years out from that. Crate & Barrel is probably taking note of Nordstrom going in at SJTC, and they probably like the demographics and cotenancy there. IKEA could give a shit about all that and wants space, high visibility, high centrality, and extremely good access with room to put in structured parking and easy access to all residents in a region. JTB may not be the best corridor for them, but then where else do they go? Where along 95? Perhaps that site at University where the motel was demo'd? Maybe not large enough and a reputable developer would need to come in and back the transformation of that intersection.
The Nostradamus of Negativity scores again. Five to ten years out from an event that necessarily would occur *BEFORE* an IKEA arrives perhaps five to ten years later still.
Quote from: spuwho on October 07, 2015, 07:16:42 PM
Quote from: I-10east on October 07, 2015, 07:05:30 PM
Okay I'm late to the party, IKEA will be out SJTC. People think that it's bad now, traffic is gonna be crazy out there.
They are back to harvesting the remaining trees on the Skinner properties at SJTC again. The agent and developer have put up new signs. With Top Golf signed up and Red Robin on the way and Books A Million right behind them, now Ikea, it is going to be crazy come Christmas in 2017.
The "success" of SJTC may be their undoing in the future.
The existing success of the "SJTC area" and subsequent explosive growth of this part of town is unquestionable at this point. Yes, we're talking about a lot of chain stores, but destination retail and attractions like Ikea, Top Golf, the SJTC, and countless other nearby clusters of activity bring Jacksonville in line amenity-wise with the larger cities, and make Jacksonville a more exciting place to visit and to live. I'd hope that by this point the last remaining holdouts would drop the sour-grapes "strip mall" attitude and recognize how awesome it is to have an area like this in our city, even if it isn't downtown. In the long-run, downtown will benefit from the positive externalities created by this explosive growth on the south side.
My question, as Ock alluded to before, and as I've raised in other threads is this: How do we define and connect the "St. Johns Town Center area." In a relatively small space, we've got all of these awesome areas like Tinseltown, Tapestry Park, Gate Parkway, IKEA/Top Golf, the St. Johns Town Center, Markets at Town Center, UNF, Deerwood Park, and the countless other developments springing up in the area. Yet, despite their geographic proximity, they all feel like disparate places, rather than a unified area. Working together, the whole area has so much more potential than the sum of its individual parts and developments.
There's got to be an elegant way to interconnect all of these parts, both through branding (still love the idea of establishing the area as Midtown Jacksonville) and through transportation (shuttles, bike paths, pedestrian walkways, etc.). So that a UNF student could easily get to IKEA. A SJTC shopper could easily catch a movie at Tinseltown or grab a post-shopping drink at World of Beer. An Aloft guest could step outside, catch a ride of some sort, and enjoy an afternoon at Top Golf. A Deerwood Park worker could step aboard something and grab a drink at Suite after work, or relax at Barnes N' Noble, or Moxy, or the Nordstrom ebar. A Tapestry Park resident could attend classes at UNF without a vehicle, etc.
Quote from: RattlerGator on October 07, 2015, 11:46:16 PM
I loved this earlier comment in the thread from March 11, 2014:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,16025.msg368290.html#msg368290
QuoteIt's not just market size, either. As has been touched on, it's tourism, it's disposable income, it's how disposable income is spent (some cities are just more fashion or design conscious than others while other cities are budget conscious no matter how much disposable income there is), it's trade area and local/regional competition, it's site selection if all of the other boxes are checked.
Honestly, if Jax were 2.5 million people in its MSA, maybe there just isn't a proper site for IKEA to settle on! So many factors at play.
I think generally speaking, Jax is a small MSA that is too close to too many larger MSAs, and there isn't a lot of tourist or business/convention traffic, no sizable student population, and too much housing-backed wealth, which is shaky in NE FL (there isn't a lot of highly liquid wealth in the area, which is why there isn't much in terms of high end shopping, restaurants, or amenities). The wealthy that do call Jax home have no problem traveling up to NYC or down to Miami for various things, and the lower/middle class aren't likely as great of target profile demographics for IKEA (there is a noticeable difference in the average Jax resident and the average middle/lower middle income resident of other metros, for instance).
Jax will get a Crate & Barrel before Ikea, but is still 5-10 years out from that. Crate & Barrel is probably taking note of Nordstrom going in at SJTC, and they probably like the demographics and cotenancy there. IKEA could give a shit about all that and wants space, high visibility, high centrality, and extremely good access with room to put in structured parking and easy access to all residents in a region. JTB may not be the best corridor for them, but then where else do they go? Where along 95? Perhaps that site at University where the motel was demo'd? Maybe not large enough and a reputable developer would need to come in and back the transformation of that intersection.
The Nostradamus of Negativity scores again. Five to ten years out from an event that necessarily would occur *BEFORE* an IKEA arrives perhaps five to ten years later still.
Simms, report directly to this thread for your lashings.
We can't be right all the time.
IKEA renderings:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/IKEA-Jacksonville/i-FdvGn2J/0/L/Architectural%20Rendering%20of%20Proposed%20IKEA%20Jacksonville%20%28Opening%20Fall%202017%29%20-%20hi-L.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/IKEA-Jacksonville/i-58h5QvT/0/L/Location%20of%20Proposed%20IKEA%20Jacksonville%20%28Opening%20Fall%202017%29%20-%20hi-L.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/IKEA-Jacksonville/i-NJ4vcJ7/0/L/Site%20Plan%20of%20Proposed%20IKEA%20Jacksonville%20%28Opening%20Fall%202017%29%20-%20hi-L.jpg)
Quote from: KenFSU on October 07, 2015, 11:54:22 PM
Quote from: spuwho on October 07, 2015, 07:16:42 PM
Quote from: I-10east on October 07, 2015, 07:05:30 PM
Okay I'm late to the party, IKEA will be out SJTC. People think that it's bad now, traffic is gonna be crazy out there.
They are back to harvesting the remaining trees on the Skinner properties at SJTC again. The agent and developer have put up new signs. With Top Golf signed up and Red Robin on the way and Books A Million right behind them, now Ikea, it is going to be crazy come Christmas in 2017.
The "success" of SJTC may be their undoing in the future.
The existing success of the "SJTC area" and subsequent explosive growth of this part of town is unquestionable at this point. Yes, we're talking about a lot of chain stores, but destination retail and attractions like Ikea, Top Golf, the SJTC, and countless other nearby clusters of activity bring Jacksonville in line amenity-wise with the larger cities, and make Jacksonville a more exciting place to visit and to live. I'd hope that by this point the last remaining holdouts would drop the sour-grapes "strip mall" attitude and recognize how awesome it is to have an area like this in our city, even if it isn't downtown. In the long-run, downtown will benefit from the positive externalities created by this explosive growth on the south side.
My question, as Ock alluded to before, and as I've raised in other threads is this: How do we define and connect the "St. Johns Town Center area." In a relatively small space, we've got all of these awesome areas like Tinseltown, Tapestry Park, Gate Parkway, IKEA/Top Golf, the St. Johns Town Center, Markets at Town Center, UNF, Deerwood Park, and the countless other developments springing up in the area. Yet, despite their geographic proximity, they all feel like disparate places, rather than a unified area. Working together, the whole area has so much more potential than the sum of its individual parts and developments.
There's got to be an elegant way to interconnect all of these parts, both through branding (still love the idea of establishing the area as Midtown Jacksonville) and through transportation (shuttles, bike paths, pedestrian walkways, etc.). So that a UNF student could easily get to IKEA. A SJTC shopper could easily catch a movie at Tinseltown or grab a post-shopping drink at World of Beer. An Aloft guest could step outside, catch a ride of some sort, and enjoy an afternoon at Top Golf. A Deerwood Park worker could step aboard something and grab a drink at Suite after work, or relax at Barnes N' Noble, or Moxy, or the Nordstrom ebar. A Tapestry Park resident could attend classes at UNF without a vehicle, etc.
+1. I guess I never put a lot of thought into that but it makes total sense to unify this entire area.
Quote from: Downtown Osprey on October 08, 2015, 09:19:13 AM
I never put a lot of thought into that but it makes total sense to unify this entire area.
I'll bet our illustrious Planning and Development Department hasn't put much thought into it either.
Quote from: KenFSU on October 07, 2015, 11:54:22 PM
My question, as Ock alluded to before, and as I've raised in other threads is this: How do we define and connect the "St. Johns Town Center area." In a relatively small space, we've got all of these awesome areas like Tinseltown, Tapestry Park, Gate Parkway, IKEA/Top Golf, the St. Johns Town Center, Markets at Town Center, UNF, Deerwood Park, and the countless other developments springing up in the area. Yet, despite their geographic proximity, they all feel like disparate places, rather than a unified area. Working together, the whole area has so much more potential than the sum of its individual parts and developments.
There's got to be an elegant way to interconnect all of these parts, both through branding (still love the idea of establishing the area as Midtown Jacksonville) and through transportation (shuttles, bike paths, pedestrian walkways, etc.). So that a UNF student could easily get to IKEA. A SJTC shopper could easily catch a movie at Tinseltown or grab a post-shopping drink at World of Beer. An Aloft guest could step outside, catch a ride of some sort, and enjoy an afternoon at Top Golf. A Deerwood Park worker could step aboard something and grab a drink at Suite after work, or relax at Barnes N' Noble, or Moxy, or the Nordstrom ebar. A Tapestry Park resident could attend classes at UNF without a vehicle, etc.
Well that particular suburban landscape is set up pretty nice for transit. Assuming JTB was utilized as a rapid transit corridor between the Beach and downtown (via Philips), you could use a combination of Gate Parkway, Town Center Parkway, Deerwood Park Boulevard, Belford Road and perhaps Kernan (assuming the once proposed southward extension to East Baymeadows/Gate happens) to run a local shuttle loop. Such a loop would tie in Southpoint, Tinseltown, SJTC, UNF, and all the office parks/multi-family developments inbetween together.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Other/Misc2/i-d5WDpMz/0/L/MJ-JTB%20corridor-L.jpg)
That particular loop could then connect to a couple of rapid transit stations along JTB for regional access. Gate Parkway, Town Center Parkway and Deerwood Park Boulevard could all be enhanced to be decent corridors for bike/ped connectivity. Overall, the entire area, like the rest of the city, would benefit from a zoning overhaul, making it easier for the private sector to develop multimodal friendly infill development. Also, the area is essentially an "Edge City". There's tons of them across the country. So there are some decent examples out there for Jax to follow, when it comes to retrofitting suburbia.
I honestly do not understand the love affair with IKEA, but good for Jacksonville....this will also draw people from Tallahassee and all of SE GA maybe even Savannah and Charleston.
^The love affair is because you can get decent looking furniture, kitchens, bathrooms, and general household goods for fairly cheap. Plus, their showroom is very useful in spurring design ideas (even if you don't buy IKEA products). The food is cheap, and for some people its a fun place to go hang out and explore on a rainy day, or when they are looking for something to do. One thing that hasn't really been mentioned (maybe its obvious, maybe not) is that having an IKEA in close proximity makes it a lot easier for developers/investors/designers to rehab homes or do loft conversions...or for restaurants/bars to affordably create an interesting space. There is no doubt in my mind that having an IKEA in Jax will create a lot more colorful and unique interior spaces around town.
I've had to go to Orlando for meetings periodically all summer and have stopped at IKEA each time to pick up stuff to do some interior design work in my home. For about $150, I was able to create a fairly nice mudroom in my house. I get to go in a lot of $million + homes and for $150 I built what those people likely paid $1k plus to build. My brother in law just did an awesome bathroom remodel with IKEA products for 1/10th of what my mom paid for hers, and his looks much better.
I certainly don't (and won't) buy all my furniture from IKEA, but it is a very, very nice option to have in town.
Oh and then there's the economic boost to the city, which will likely be well north of $1 million a year in sales tax revenue...This is a big deal for Jax.
Quote from: FSBA on October 07, 2015, 10:32:09 PM
Why would IKEA be so willing to include Volusia County in Jacksonville's market? With them being in the Orlando market for so long I would figure most IKEA shoppers would stick with Orlando.
FLORIDA EAST COAST RAILWAY...
AKA:
ALL ABOARD FLORIDA v I-4 = No Contest
Quote from: simms3 on October 08, 2015, 07:04:15 AM
We can't be right all the time.
True dat. Glad to see you didn't freak out at the sight of my written jab.
Quote from: stephendare on October 08, 2015, 03:33:31 PM
Quote from: I-10east on October 07, 2015, 06:20:01 PM
Jax is still 'underachieving, resting on our laurels, and getting left in the dust' because this IKEA isn't gonna be downtown, amirite???
dumb.
Stephen, this comment contributes nothing. I would expect more from you, especially being a mod. You did one of these responses earlier.
It was a joke, relax...
Quote from: stephendare on October 08, 2015, 03:50:17 PM
meh. the comment is dumb.--not the poster. I 10 is a troll posting on an urban development new urbanist website coredumped.....sheerly for the purpose of refuting urbanism itself (which he doesn't apparently understand). In the process, anyone who believes that fiscally responsible development is a good thing is subject to similar posts by him----implying that urbanism itself is negativity and therefore pointless. Its dumb. My reactions to this won't change, but if you would like to discuss it, send me a pm.
Well sounds like yall have some history - it just seems to contribute nothing, and maybe be off-putting to some lurkers. Anyway, I'll stay out of it.
Back on topic, gate parkway is going to become (more of) a hell-hole. Especially if the WD family sells some land across the way. if they do it would be nice if COJ made a large park out of some of it. It's basically surrounded by booming areas (beachs east, town center west, butler/unf north, nocatee south).
DCPS did have discussions about acquiring the land in the SE quadrant of JTB/295 for a new high school but acquired the property farther south. That is Atlantic Coast HS today.
Before SJTC was born, a major mall developer tried to get that SE corner, but for reasons I am not aware of it died.
Gonna need a new people mover to connect all the dots. Skyway #2.
Some rail would be nice.
Unfortunately, FDOT only knows how to build roads, and JTA only knows how to drive busses.
Transportation means more than concrete in other parts of the country, just not jax/FL.
So now that Ikea is coming will that push stores such as Neiman Marcus, Bloomingdale's, Saks Fifth Avenue, and Macy's to consider Jacksonville more seriously? Do you think one or more of those stores be in Jax in the next 5-10 years? I'm thinking Saks would be the most likely since they have stores in a lot of cities smaller than Jax and an outlet in St. Augustine.
Quote from: jaxdan3 on October 09, 2015, 01:49:20 PM
So now that Ikea is coming will that push stores such as Neiman Marcus, Bloomingdale's, Saks Fifth Avenue, and Macy's to consider Jacksonville more seriously? Do you think one or more of those stores be in Jax in the next 5-10 years? I'm thinking Saks would be the most likely since they have stores in a lot of cities smaller than Jax and an outlet in St. Augustine.
It seems possible. It seems like the more that area (SJTC, etc) shows grows and shows itself to be a successful shopping district, the more likely it is to draw retailers.
But I don't really know what I'm talking about and that is purely conjecture.
I also admit I don't know what I'm talking about, but unless things change for Macy's I wouldn't expect them any time soon. They've announced they're going to be closing a bunch of stores over the coming months.
Neiman Marcus and Saks are pipe dreams, I think (and frankly, for at least one of them, who cares - it's for stodgy old rich white ladies). Particularly Neiman Marcus is a dream but they'd be way more exciting than Saks. They don't need the ~2 million general people that Ikea says it does (and I'm sure that has evolved, frankly). But they do need to prove out seriously big *disposable* income, something Mountain Brook and that whole side of Birmingham still have over any single area in Jax. Perhaps if you aggregate the different parts of Jax, the Beaches, SS, Ortega/Avondale, then you'd get a Mountain Brook equivalent or better (but that becomes difficult from an investment committee pitch - it forces people who don't know and don't care about lil ole Jacksonville to connect dots and see a bigger picture when it's up against a town that is incredibly segregated so that all the rich people live on one side and they can easily and mathematically check a box). Can't really compare Sarasota or Naples to Jax - those areas of FL are pure high disposable income on a different level (very wealthy retirees and snowbirds in serious numbers resettling their lives from wealthy places up north to that part of FL). Also, if you consider population, from Sarasota down to Naples that is more people than NE FL, and it's A LOT more wealthy retirees sitting on $$$$.
I would be more hopeful for a Barneys Co-op or a Bloomingdales. Barneys Co-op would in my opinion offer up a higher level of fashion (by far) than anything currently in the city. Bloomingdales is perhaps a tad nicer than Nordstrom, but is still affordable. I've been a Bloomie's rewards member since college, so it's doable from the $ standpoint, yet also still fashion forward with good service. I will be switching to Barneys the day I can justify it financially - for young people, it's tops by far, though some would argue Neimans.
Honestly, if I were a young guy in Jax, I'd clamor more for things like Zara than anything else. Zara fits slim people really well and is inexpensive, and is frankly more fashionable than just about anything in Jax now, but for Banana Republic prices. It could easily fit into SJTC with current demographics...I wonder why it's not there yet! These retailers DO look at the whole picture and not just demographics on paper.
They have their people visit the city and spend time to gather shopping habits, anecdotal evidence, per se. They can easily look around and see what people are buying. Zara is on the fashion forward side, so while their on-paper boxes might already be checked in a city like Jax, perhaps they've seen anecdotal evidence from other stores that sell some similar merchandise that didn't sell as well, or their representatives didn't get the best vibes that their store would fit in well with the local population. Frankly, you need a lot of gay guys to make Zara work, but there's a reason gay guys like it so much!
Playing into this, not every Banana Republic or Nordstrom is the same. A Banana Republic in Chicago is going to be very different and sell different things than the one in the Avenues or Birmingham. Maybe the Avenues every now and again goes out on a limb and tries to sell some of the things that the one in South FL sells or the one in Dallas, and it just doesn't work. Industry knowledge is widely available (and turnover across these retailers is high, each person taking this kind of knowledge with them as they hop around).
I really wish I worked in retail real estate as much as I used to, it's at least as interesting as anything else!
Will the new Ikea have a kayak dock?
Why would it have a kayak dock?
Quote from: thelakelander on October 09, 2015, 03:23:54 PM
Why would it have a kayak dock?
Apparently you haven't met the Baltimore guys yet, Lake.
Seems Simms has forgotten about Ponte Vedra and St John's County as well as some area's not far from SJTC when it comes to purchasing power and disposable income. As for Macy's I agree with other comments. They are not what they used to be and are not as financially strong as the past. In today's world they don't seems to know where they fit. Are they upscale, middle of the road or just a discounter.
Quote from: jaxjags on October 09, 2015, 03:26:58 PM
Seems Simms has forgotten about Ponte Vedra and St John's County as well as some area's not far from SJTC when it comes to purchasing power and disposable income. As for Macy's I agree with other comments. They are not what they used to be and are not as financially strong as the past. In today's world they don't seems to know where they fit. Are they upscale, middle of the road or just a discounter.
Huh? no, haven't. These pockets are all spread out, are not as much as you probably think they are, and all of this is the reason why I mentioned retailers needing to really understand the area well so they can aggregate these areas to get the demographics they need. Just putting a dot on a map in Jax and trying to come up with the demographics of *disposable* income necessary to check a box for Neiman Marcus or Saks Fifth Avenue is literally impossible *because* you have Ponte Vedra and then 35 miles away you have Ortega and you have small points in between like a string of households along the river.
Consider that other cities have whole entire sides of town where these so-called wealthy people live. Birmingham is one of these cities. Birmingham has a PVB+AB+Deerwood+SanMarco+Avondale+Ortega all consolidated, and that's where they have a Saks as well.
To add to this, this is why SJTC is where it is and not smushed up in northern SJC/PVB. It is central to all the spread out wealth areas of NE FL.
So maybe stores like Crate & Barrel and The Container Store are more realistic expectations then.
Simms: "Jax is not gonna get this, and Jax is not gonna get that" Just like he said IKEA wouldn't supposed to come here yet... Another Simmism "Blah blah blah is much more fashionable than anything Jax currently has" What, by your standards? Same old tired script, just a different day...
Quote from: simms3 on October 09, 2015, 02:58:22 PM
Neiman Marcus and Saks are pipe dreams, I think (and frankly, for at least one of them, who cares - it's for stodgy old rich white ladies). Particularly Neiman Marcus is a dream but they'd be way more exciting than Saks. They don't need the ~2 million general people that Ikea says it does (and I'm sure that has evolved, frankly). But they do need to prove out seriously big *disposable* income, something Mountain Brook and that whole side of Birmingham still have over any single area in Jax. Perhaps if you aggregate the different parts of Jax, the Beaches, SS, Ortega/Avondale, then you'd get a Mountain Brook equivalent or better (but that becomes difficult from an investment committee pitch - it forces people who don't know and don't care about lil ole Jacksonville to connect dots and see a bigger picture when it's up against a town that is incredibly segregated so that all the rich people live on one side and they can easily and mathematically check a box). Can't really compare Sarasota or Naples to Jax - those areas of FL are pure high disposable income on a different level (very wealthy retirees and snowbirds in serious numbers resettling their lives from wealthy places up north to that part of FL). Also, if you consider population, from Sarasota down to Naples that is more people than NE FL, and it's A LOT more wealthy retirees sitting on $$$$.
I would be more hopeful for a Barneys Co-op or a Bloomingdales. Barneys Co-op would in my opinion offer up a higher level of fashion (by far) than anything currently in the city. Bloomingdales is perhaps a tad nicer than Nordstrom, but is still affordable. I've been a Bloomie's rewards member since college, so it's doable from the $ standpoint, yet also still fashion forward with good service. I will be switching to Barneys the day I can justify it financially - for young people, it's tops by far, though some would argue Neimans.
Honestly, if I were a young guy in Jax, I'd clamor more for things like Zara than anything else. Zara fits slim people really well and is inexpensive, and is frankly more fashionable than just about anything in Jax now, but for Banana Republic prices. It could easily fit into SJTC with current demographics...I wonder why it's not there yet! These retailers DO look at the whole picture and not just demographics on paper.
They have their people visit the city and spend time to gather shopping habits, anecdotal evidence, per se. They can easily look around and see what people are buying. Zara is on the fashion forward side, so while their on-paper boxes might already be checked in a city like Jax, perhaps they've seen anecdotal evidence from other stores that sell some similar merchandise that didn't sell as well, or their representatives didn't get the best vibes that their store would fit in well with the local population. Frankly, you need a lot of gay guys to make Zara work, but there's a reason gay guys like it so much!
Playing into this, not every Banana Republic or Nordstrom is the same. A Banana Republic in Chicago is going to be very different and sell different things than the one in the Avenues or Birmingham. Maybe the Avenues every now and again goes out on a limb and tries to sell some of the things that the one in South FL sells or the one in Dallas, and it just doesn't work. Industry knowledge is widely available (and turnover across these retailers is high, each person taking this kind of knowledge with them as they hop around).
I really wish I worked in retail real estate as much as I used to, it's at least as interesting as anything else!
Zara, really? Their stuff is so poorly made. I realize you can't expect amazing quality from the usual denizens of the high street (Zara, H&M, Top Shop, Uniqlo) but I am really over buying stuff from those retailers (when I find stuff that can fit my 6'6" frame, that is).
Well time will tell on Saks or NM....remember IKEA was well over 10 years or more from opening a store here. Then wham!
Quote from: Adam White on October 09, 2015, 04:54:16 PM
Zara, really? Their stuff is so poorly made. I realize you can't expect amazing quality from the usual denizens of the high street (Zara, H&M, Top Shop, Uniqlo) but I am really over buying stuff from those retailers (when I find stuff that can fit my 6'6" frame, that is).
I looked at their (Zara) stuff online, and I wasn't impressed at all. I would rather go to Nordstrom, Nordstrom Rack, Saks off 5th Ave, Dillard's, Belk, and others.
Quote from: I-10east on October 09, 2015, 05:21:53 PM
Quote from: Adam White on October 09, 2015, 04:54:16 PM
Zara, really? Their stuff is so poorly made. I realize you can't expect amazing quality from the usual denizens of the high street (Zara, H&M, Top Shop, Uniqlo) but I am really over buying stuff from those retailers (when I find stuff that can fit my 6'6" frame, that is).
I looked at their (Zara) stuff online, and I wasn't impressed at all. I would rather go to Nordstrom, Nordstrom Rack, Saks off 5th Ave, Dillard's, Belk, and others.
Zara's okay. But it's like all the other stuff you find on the high street and in malls. The problem I have with most of those companies is that the clothing is made so poorly. Yes, it's not very expensive, but it loses its shape or falls apart very soon. So it's a false economy, really. Of course, a lot of it is very trendy and so I guess the shelf life isn't really expected to be that long anyway.
Edit: It would be great if Jax could get a Zara or a Uniqlo or maybe a Topshop/Topman. I could see one of those fitting in at the Town Center. I think Topshop/Topman would be the best option, personally.
Of course poorly made and of course you need to follow wash instructions to a tee. But cheap. Duh
You don't get fashion forward, well fit, and well made for less! Also, yes, 6'6" is quite a frame. Sorry on the clothing front, but sounds like a nice height otherwise to me :)
And I still don't know where you live, but none of those stores (except H&M I believe) exist in Jax. I think the Jax consumer needs to go through some sort of evolution before regularly shopping these mostly European/Asian discount brands. Still too many polo shirts and baggy shorts/pants with pleats in the city...
Quote from: simms3 on October 09, 2015, 05:39:54 PM
Of course poorly made and of course you need to follow wash instructions to a tee. But cheap. Duh
You don't get fashion forward, well fit, and well made for less! Also, yes, 6'6" is quite a frame. Sorry on the clothing front, but sounds like a nice height otherwise to me :)
And I still don't know where you live, but none of those stores (except H&M I believe) exist in Jax. I think the Jax consumer needs to go through some sort of evolution before regularly shopping these mostly European/Asian discount brands. Still too many polo shirts and baggy shorts/pants with pleats in the city...
I think there are probably enough non-jort-wearing people in Jax/wider region to support a Zara or another shop like that. Apparently H&M is doing okay - or at least I haven't heard that they're struggling. There's that bit of SJTC with Urban Outfitters, Anthropologie, etc where it would fit.
Thanks for the compliment. I'd rather be a few inches shorter. Would make life less challenging. I'm in London and cannot seem to find tall clothing anywhere. You get XL, XXL, XXXL, etc at the speciality shops, but that's all big, not tall.
It's funny (or frustrating) because Gap and Banana Republic do tall sizes in the US, but not Europe. Not even through the website. Although I am not a huge fan, I think they're both great places to buy plain sweaters and t-shirts (no pocket, please). Sweater (or "jumper") with a collared shirt and jeans is apparently my uniform. I am not fashion forward. But I'm also a 43 year old dad.
Quote from: simms3 on October 09, 2015, 02:58:22 PM
Zara fits slim people really well
Jacksonville, Fla. BMI: 26.3
I think this is awesome news. When we were down in JAX in July, we stayed down off Baymeadows and 295. You could see the area is getting ready to explode, with all of the residential being built. This will eliminate ANY doubt for this entire area. I would imagine that by the time this gets built, those vacant lots on the east side of 295, where Gate swings back toward the south and becomes Baymeadows, will all be spoken for with projects announced.
Even if you have no use for their products, understand that they force other stores to be more competitive. We love modern furniture and before IKEA came around, paid through the nose for that. Now, we can shop at those other stores and see much more realistic pricing.
Timmy B when you say "down in JAX" it implies would live north. Do you mind sharing where you live. Just curios as to where JAX " draws from".
While I know that Macy's is at best a middlebrow department store, it still is a national department store chain with a presence in nearly every major American city besides ours. We're stuck with commercials when we watch television, we might as well be able to buy their stuff. My feelings are not hurt by not having a Macy's in our city. I shop at Penney's.
Quote from: jaxjags on October 10, 2015, 03:23:57 PM
Timmy B when you say "down in JAX" it implies would live north. Do you mind sharing where you live. Just curios as to where JAX " draws from".
Hi, jags. You are correct. We live in Michigan. My wife and I are teachers and we are retiring in 2017. We have looked at major cities from Seattle and Portland, down through Texas, and over to Florida. The city that checked off nearly everything in our list of "must-haves" was Jacksonville. It is large enough to have the cultural and leisure activities, but not so large that you can't move around because of traffic or you feel endangered in most places. It has a very easy to use, convenient airport, from which you can fly anywhere relatively easily. It has great weather, fabulous beaches, and is not inundated with millions of tourists. It has a great running community, which is important to us. It is close to Atlanta, so I can travel up and see my Braves lose as often as I want!
We have been down several times, and we have stayed in different neighborhoods each time, and we have never been disappointed. We can't wait to make it our home.
TimmyB, you're the man !!! It's always rather amazing to me when I run into folks (some on this board) who can't seem to grasp what you just plainly expressed.
Thanks TimmyB. I agree with your assessment. I was raised in Ohio, have live in Wisconsin, Maryland, Massachusetts, Atlanta and JAX twice. The city is much improved from my first stay in the late 80's. If you make the effort there is a lot to enjoy, much of it free, and without the hassles of a larger Metro as in ATL.
Quote from: RattlerGator on October 11, 2015, 09:46:03 AM
TimmyB, you're the man !!! It's always rather amazing to me when I run into folks (some on this board) who can't seem to grasp what you just plainly expressed.
Thanks, Rattler. Sometimes, people get too accustomed to where they live and take it for granted. To us, Jacksonville has everything we were looking for, EXCEPT for a light-rail to move between burbs and DT. That would be nice, but is not a deal-breaker.
Quote from: jaxjags on October 11, 2015, 10:12:49 AM
Thanks TimmyB. I agree with your assessment. I was raised in Ohio, have live in Wisconsin, Maryland, Massachusetts, Atlanta and JAX twice. The city is much improved from my first stay in the late 80's. If you make the effort there is a lot to enjoy, much of it free, and without the hassles of a larger Metro as in ATL.
I love ATL, but hate the traffic. It does have the MARTA system, which we love using when we visit there. Funny enough, JAX now sort of resembles ATL with the large 295 ring around it, but without 80% of the traffic! (Obviously, not talking about SJTC during the holidays, lol.)
Every time we have been to JAX, we almost hope for something to show us "This is NOT the place for you!", because you'd rather find that out before you move there. We've not had that experience! :)
And, now that IKEA is coming, that whole Southside ("Midtown"?) is going to be even better, IMO. SO looking forward to it.
Quote from: finehoe on October 10, 2015, 11:38:51 AM
Jacksonville, Fla. BMI: 26.3
Yup, just a bunch of overweight country bumpkins here, yee-haw.... What in the hell does that say about San Antonio with a 29.1? SA has the 'elite and distinguished' Zara BTW.
Quote from: I-10east on October 12, 2015, 06:40:09 AM
Quote from: finehoe on October 10, 2015, 11:38:51 AM
Jacksonville, Fla. BMI: 26.3
Yup, just a bunch of overweight country bumpkins here, yee-haw.... What in the hell does that say about San Antonio with a 29.1? SA has the 'elite and distinguished' Zara BTW.
You know what they say: Everything's big in Texas!
Maybe Ikea isn't coming after all.....
Residents at town hall meeting skeptical of IKEA plans to come to Jacksonville
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2015-11-05/story/residents-town-hall-meeting-skeptical-ikea-plans-come-jacksonville (http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2015-11-05/story/residents-town-hall-meeting-skeptical-ikea-plans-come-jacksonville)
QuoteAbby Howard Murphy is a fan of IKEA who's made long-distance drives to Tampa to roam the aisles of the Swedish super-store.
But Murphy is dead set against the Jacksonville site that IKEA has zeroed in on for a 294,000-square-foot store off Interstate 295 at Gate Parkway on the Southside.
"I'm sure all of us like IKEA," she said. "They do wonderful things and I love the store, but it doesn't belong in a residential neighborhood."
Murphy, who lives in the Hampton Glen subdivision, was among the area residents who turned out Thursday night for a town hall meeting sponsored by City Councilman Danny Becton to field questions about what IKEA means for traffic congestion.
Typical, a bunch of old residents for the most part...Some of these people probably won't even make it to 2017, the year that the IKEA WILL open.
Quote from: spuwho on November 05, 2015, 09:59:20 PM
Maybe Ikea isn't coming after all.....
Residents at town hall meeting skeptical of IKEA plans to come to Jacksonville
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2015-11-05/story/residents-town-hall-meeting-skeptical-ikea-plans-come-jacksonville (http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2015-11-05/story/residents-town-hall-meeting-skeptical-ikea-plans-come-jacksonville)
QuoteAbby Howard Murphy is a fan of IKEA who's made long-distance drives to Tampa to roam the aisles of the Swedish super-store.
But Murphy is dead set against the Jacksonville site that IKEA has zeroed in on for a 294,000-square-foot store off Interstate 295 at Gate Parkway on the Southside.
"I'm sure all of us like IKEA," she said. "They do wonderful things and I love the store, but it doesn't belong in a residential neighborhood."
Murphy, who lives in the Hampton Glen subdivision, was among the area residents who turned out Thursday night for a town hall meeting sponsored by City Councilman Danny Becton to field questions about what IKEA means for traffic congestion.
Gate and 295 is residential??? Oh, yeah, I was going to build my house there, but... nimby's are everywhere, I guess.
Yep.
Quote from: TimmyB on November 06, 2015, 07:27:48 AM
Quote from: spuwho on November 05, 2015, 09:59:20 PM
Maybe Ikea isn't coming after all.....
Residents at town hall meeting skeptical of IKEA plans to come to Jacksonville
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2015-11-05/story/residents-town-hall-meeting-skeptical-ikea-plans-come-jacksonville (http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2015-11-05/story/residents-town-hall-meeting-skeptical-ikea-plans-come-jacksonville)
QuoteAbby Howard Murphy is a fan of IKEA who's made long-distance drives to Tampa to roam the aisles of the Swedish super-store.
But Murphy is dead set against the Jacksonville site that IKEA has zeroed in on for a 294,000-square-foot store off Interstate 295 at Gate Parkway on the Southside.
"I'm sure all of us like IKEA," she said. "They do wonderful things and I love the store, but it doesn't belong in a residential neighborhood."
Murphy, who lives in the Hampton Glen subdivision, was among the area residents who turned out Thursday night for a town hall meeting sponsored by City Councilman Danny Becton to field questions about what IKEA means for traffic congestion.
Gate and 295 is residential??? Oh, yeah, I was going to build my house there, but... nimby's are everywhere, I guess.
I think these residents are really just concerned about their property vales/property taxes going up after Ikea is built.
Quote from: spuwho on November 05, 2015, 09:59:20 PM
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2015-11-05/story/residents-town-hall-meeting-skeptical-ikea-plans-come-jacksonville (http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2015-11-05/story/residents-town-hall-meeting-skeptical-ikea-plans-come-jacksonville)
QuoteAbby Howard Murphy is a fan of IKEA who's made long-distance drives to Tampa to roam the aisles of the Swedish super-store.
But Murphy is dead set against the Jacksonville site that IKEA has zeroed in on for a 294,000-square-foot store off Interstate 295 at Gate Parkway on the Southside.
"I'm sure all of us like IKEA," she said. "They do wonderful things and I love the store, but it doesn't belong in a residential neighborhood."
Murphy, who lives in the Hampton Glen subdivision, was among the area residents who turned out Thursday night for a town hall meeting sponsored by City Councilman Danny Becton to field questions about what IKEA means for traffic congestion.
Abby Howard Murphy may be a fan of IKEA, but she's also a massive hypocrite. She seems to have no problem driving 3 hours to shop in an IKEA located in someone else's neighborhood.
^^^+100
Here's the obligatory NIMBY news report. The person concerned did seemingly have a legit argument, opposed to the typical NIMBY attitude.
http://www.news4jax.com/news/possible-ikea-raises-traffic-concerns/36291454
Quote from: I-10east on November 06, 2015, 07:54:58 AM
Here's the obligatory NIMBY news report. The person concerned did seemingly have a legit argument, opposed to the typical NIMBY attitude.
http://www.news4jax.com/news/possible-ikea-raises-traffic-concerns/36291454
To be fair, I can appreciate most NIMBY arguments. That's not to say I always agree with them, but who wouldn't speak up if he or she was going to be impacted by a development?
These sorts of things have to go somewhere, though.
People complaining now can always make a "Realtors" day and move further out into Nocatee, where the same stuff will be coming in a few years. Then they can move further into Hastings, where nothing will ever disturb the Potato crops.
Quote from: Adam White on November 06, 2015, 07:38:35 AM
Abby Howard Murphy may be a fan of IKEA, but she's also a massive hypocrite. She seems to have no problem driving 3 hours to shop in an IKEA located in someone else's neighborhood.
Yep
Not to mention the person in the article in the Times Union this morning complaining resides in Hampton Glen. That is probably 3 miles from where the IKEA is to be located.
I've got "news" for them - This isn't the last new retailer coming to the area. Don't buy near an airport if you don't like noise.
Quote from: jaxjags on November 06, 2015, 10:09:44 AM
I've got "news" for them - This isn't the last new retailer coming to the area. Don't buy near an airport if you don't like noise.
Yeah, the way they're acting, you'd think someone was proposing a pizza parlor in the midst of an historic district's shopping area.
Quote from: Adam White on November 06, 2015, 10:12:18 AM
Quote from: jaxjags on November 06, 2015, 10:09:44 AM
I've got "news" for them - This isn't the last new retailer coming to the area. Don't buy near an airport if you don't like noise.
Yeah, the way they're acting, you'd think someone was proposing a pizza parlor in the midst of an historic district's shopping area.
HA!
Yes, I want to live on a five-lane street, with an entrance to an Interstate highway within a couple of blocks, and easy access to SJTC. But, I don't want traffic, and I don't want noise!!! <<sigh>>
I hear Satsuma, FL is nice this time of year and the oranges are about to be nice and ripe...
QuoteNew toll lanes will hopefully bring solution to Ikea-related crowding
Residents near Jacksonville's Southside have raised concerns about how one of Jacksonville's biggest new business developments — the arrival of Ikea — will affect the area's already-congested roadways.
But at least one new project will hopefully ease the area near the St. Johns Center at I-295 and Gate Parkway, thanks to a late update that will allow it to continue as planned.
The Florida Department of Transportation will be able to go ahead with construction on its toll road system on I-295 between State Road 9B and J. Turner Butler Blvd. On Thursday, a lawsuit against FDOT's contract for the project and that held up construction was dropped.
FDOT Spokesman Ron Tittle said construction will begin in spring of next year, with an open house for public comment slated for January or February.
Full article: http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2015/11/09/new-toll-lanes-will-hopefully-bring-solution-to.html
Quote from: thelakelander on November 10, 2015, 07:09:14 AM
QuoteNew toll lanes will hopefully bring solution to Ikea-related crowding
Residents near Jacksonville's Southside have raised concerns about how one of Jacksonville's biggest new business developments — the arrival of Ikea — will affect the area's already-congested roadways.
But at least one new project will hopefully ease the area near the St. Johns Center at I-295 and Gate Parkway, thanks to a late update that will allow it to continue as planned.
The Florida Department of Transportation will be able to go ahead with construction on its toll road system on I-295 between State Road 9B and J. Turner Butler Blvd. On Thursday, a lawsuit against FDOT's contract for the project and that held up construction was dropped.
FDOT Spokesman Ron Tittle said construction will begin in spring of next year, with an open house for public comment slated for January or February.
Full article: http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2015/11/09/new-toll-lanes-will-hopefully-bring-solution-to.html
As someone who drives on that stretch every morning, I can tell you that the NB section from Phillips to JTB is an absolute mess. Thankfully I am going the other way towards St Augustine.
105-acre mixed-use development announced just north of IKEA.
http://jacksonville.com/business/real-estate/2016-01-25/story/105-acre-development-planned-gate-parkway
I wonder if this has been in the planning stages for a long time, or if it's the honest-to-goodness IKEA effect in play.
^The article states that this projects precedes IKEA.
Quote from: pierre on November 10, 2015, 08:51:14 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on November 10, 2015, 07:09:14 AM
QuoteNew toll lanes will hopefully bring solution to Ikea-related crowding
Residents near Jacksonville's Southside have raised concerns about how one of Jacksonville's biggest new business developments — the arrival of Ikea — will affect the area's already-congested roadways.
But at least one new project will hopefully ease the area near the St. Johns Center at I-295 and Gate Parkway, thanks to a late update that will allow it to continue as planned.
The Florida Department of Transportation will be able to go ahead with construction on its toll road system on I-295 between State Road 9B and J. Turner Butler Blvd. On Thursday, a lawsuit against FDOT's contract for the project and that held up construction was dropped.
FDOT Spokesman Ron Tittle said construction will begin in spring of next year, with an open house for public comment slated for January or February.
Full article: http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2015/11/09/new-toll-lanes-will-hopefully-bring-solution-to.html
As someone who drives on that stretch every morning, I can tell you that the NB section from Phillips to JTB is an absolute mess. Thankfully I am going the other way towards St Augustine.
Unfortunately when FDOT redesigned the 9B/795 interchange from a rural flyover to an urban style to support the toll road they didnt extend the third lane coming east from Philips Highway. They procrastinated on it so they could fund it with toll money.
Personally I find that design change ridiculous as they still could have accomodated the flyover and the toll lanes, but if you recall, FDOT stalled 9B due to soaring concrete costs.
When they revived it, the contractor redesigned it to meet the budget at hand and still work with a future toll lane. So that with the lawsuit created this completely unnecessary bottleneck where you have essentially 5 lanes coming down to 2 in only a mile and a half.
And if you think its bad now. Just wait when I-795 NB opens at I-95. People are going to be fuming at the backups on I-795.
I am thankful everyday I sold my house in James Island. Traffic in the area was already bad and it is about to get insanely bad.
We always bemoan our bad luck so I thought I'd share some of the opposite (well depends on your POV I suppose)
IKEA is adjusting its business model and will likely be moving focus away from its traditional (and recognizable) big box stores to smaller footprint, urban-type showrooms driven by online sales.
This means that in just the past week IKEA has canceled much anticipated developments for its first stores in Nashville and Raleigh and a second store in the Phoenix area. We were in just the right spot in line to see our store through the finish line...
(Or otoh could it mean a massive vast deserted warehouse in the middle of the town center waiting to be redeveloped in 5 years :P)
https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/2018/05/29/ikea-store-location-nashville-antioch-near-me/654149002/
^Great point.
Our timing couldn't have been better.
Feel bad for Nashville, I believe they'd already started infrastructure projects to accommodate IKEA.