At this point, I'm not in favor of the selected downtown site. I wonder if thought is being given into how this plays into the larger vision of what downtown should be and how to best utilize our publicly owned land. While I agree that a consolidated downtown location makes sense, shouldn't this be closer to the heart of the core instead of State Street and I-95? Are there any existing vacant buildings that could be renovated for their use? Furchgott's, old JEA Tower, old Monticello Drug Company, etc? Should this new location be within immediate walking distance of the skyway, JRTC or Rosa Parks for better transit access?
QuoteSupervisor of Elections Jerry Holland has an idea to save taxpayer money that is gaining traction with some City Council members.
His office’s operations at Gateway Shopping Center are housed in a building that council members Bill Gulliford and Stephen Joost say is in deplorable condition.
Elevators don’t work. The air-conditioning system is screwy. There have been problems with rats.
Gulliford, who serves on the election canvassing board, said during a Finance Committee meeting this week that visitors to the building had better bring a jacket because the temperature is always 65 degrees.
Joost said he wouldn’t let his Firehouse Subs employees work in such conditions and city employees shouldn’t have to either.
Holland’s proposal is to build a new building in the downtown area that would consolidate the operations now at Gateway and at his Monroe Street office.
full article: http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/400601/ron-littlepage/2012-08-24/hollands-plan-move-elections-office-gateway-could-be
You beat me to it...
I'm reading this story about a new building downtown and can't help but think of all the empty ones. If time is of the essence to beat the 2014 election rush, wouldn't it be far better to renovate a portion of the existing building stock downtown? And what would be wrong with leasing space from a private building owner?
How much space do they need?
Grrr really again!?!?! He has court house fever. He wants to build another high school like building on the cheap just so he can have a new throne.
I wonder what study the mayor is waiting on...IBM? Or is the other one happening too?
Hopefully in the future the DIA can take care of these things.
This is Union Street, right, not State? I don't know why they're not talking about rehabbing an existing building, but if they're wanting something with enough parking for visitors (ie voters), I'd rather it be away from the core of downtown than right in the middle. Enough empty lots already there.
Also, saving a bunch of money and getting city workers to a central location rather than that awful building at Gateway is a good thing, so props to Holland on that.
well, it's better than the homeless camp that is there today. That stretch of Union St is terrible. I drive it everyday and it amazes me to see people literally camping on those vacant lots.
my letter his response:
Dear Mr. Holland
I am writing to express my dismay about your interest to build a new State Building. I am asking you to please consider the reuse of one of the many empty building downtown.
Right now the historic Bostwick Building is in danger of being torn down because of a delinquent owner, who would rather have an empty lot then put in some work to shore up the building. The historic value of our city is in great despair with parking and empty lots out numbering the foot print of buildings.
Please consider the use of an empty historic building downtown. This will not only save the state money, but will also add to the historic fabric of Jacksonville’s future.
Sincerely
Michael Virzera
Michael
I would welcome an existing building. I need 65,000 square feet, with 2 loading docks 150 parking spaces, one story, on the city’s bus route. I have looked but would welcome looking at any site you are aware of. I did have the city’s real estate division also review all city own properties. I will say as mentioned the site we are looking forward is city owned property. Also, you called it a State Building, it would actually be a City Building.
Sincerely,
Jerry Holland
wow. at least he responded to you.
yeah anybody got an suggestions, I am by know means and expert on the available buildings downtown.
Wow, what a pleasant response. Let's get cracking on finding existing buildings with those specifications.
I wonder if he/they would consider renting space in a parking garage if the building was otherwise suitable. Also it seems unusual he'd need it to be one story, as I don't think the Gateway site is.
Looking for a building that fits those specs as we speak
Quote from: fsujax on August 24, 2012, 09:59:59 AM
well, it's better than the homeless camp that is there today. That stretch of Union St is terrible. I drive it everyday and it amazes me to see people literally camping on those vacant lots.
Aint that the truth. I think that is by far the worse spot in downtown. It kills me also. But with the homeless shelter almost right across the street, Im not surprised
Quote from: CityLife on August 24, 2012, 09:28:52 AM
I wonder what study the mayor is waiting on...IBM? Or is the other one happening too?
Hopefully in the future the DIA can take care of these things.
there will be a stretegic plan for downtown advertised soon...coinciding with the creation of the DIA
I thought Jerry Holland was considering the EH Thompson Building. Also near State, plenty of parking (there's a garage), loading dock, on multiple bus lines, great neighborhood. Only thing missing...not one story. Oh, wait. That's right. The owner wants the new people to clean up the environmental issues instead of him. Maybe the City could work that out with him.
Quote from: jaxlore on August 24, 2012, 10:45:16 AM
Michael
I would welcome an existing building. I need 65,000 square feet, with 2 loading docks 150 parking spaces, one story, on the city’s bus route. I have looked but would welcome looking at any site you are aware of. I did have the city’s real estate division also review all city own properties. I will say as mentioned the site we are looking forward is city owned property. Also, you called it a State Building, it would actually be a City Building.
Sincerely,
Jerry Holland
Encouraging to see such a quick response. I have two issues with his statement.
1) None of the other government facilities downtown have dedicated surface parking. Not the Tax Collector on Forsyth, not City Hall or the City Hall Annex, not the Courthouse. There is no reason they can't use the public parking garages or the on-street parking system - or encourage people to use public transportation.
2) Is there an ordinance that prohibits city departments from leasing space from private buildings? I don't believe so, because otherwise we would not see so many Tax Collector's offices in shopping centers throughout town.
The old library has at least 65,000 sf, a loading dock and a parking garage across the street.
Quote from: jaxlore on August 24, 2012, 10:45:16 AM
Michael
I would welcome an existing building. I need 65,000 square feet, with 2 loading docks 150 parking spaces, one story, on the city’s bus route. I have looked but would welcome looking at any site you are aware of. I did have the city’s real estate division also review all city own properties. I will say as mentioned the site we are looking forward is city owned property. Also, you called it a State Building, it would actually be a City Building.
Sincerely,
Jerry Holland
This is pretty cool. I wish more responses from our public officials would be this direct and informative. However, I wonder why one story? To be honest, I don't know if we should be building any 65,000 square boxes on downtown's streets, including LaVilla. That's essentially a warehouse solidifying permanent blocks of dead pedestrian scale activity. Do you really want that sitting at a major downtown Gateway and a street with that much vehicular traffic?
At a mininum, within the Northbank/LaVilla, east of I-95, those 65,000 square feet need to be on an upper level with something else providing an opportunity for pedestrian scale activity at street level. Other than that, could the skyway be utilized for a portion of those parking spaces?
My major concern with the general parameters are they seem to be suburban oriented and its going to be impossible to fit them into an urban Jacksonville setting without negatively impacting the surrounding atmosphere. The only suitable locations would be urban industrial zones with brick warehouses obsolete for many modern distribution uses.
With that said, those parameters are better suited for a warehouse like the old Load King building off Beaver & Minnie Street (1357 West Beaver, near Shiloh Baptist & I-95).
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Neighborhoods/Myrtle-Avenue-Warehouse/i-KNzNq7S/0/M/P1480051-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Neighborhoods/Myrtle-Avenue-Warehouse/i-vMR5Gr5/0/M/P1480050-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Neighborhoods/Myrtle-Avenue-Warehouse/i-8XkpJNd/0/M/P1480070-M.jpg)
You basically take something cheap and available like this and retrofit it into your needs. Other than that, a downtown location needs to properly fit into the surrounding urban context and the overall long term vision of what the city wants downtown to be.
^I would agree with that. But I respect that Holland is trying to save us some money and consolidate, and he's evidently having to fight up hill to do it. That's the part I really don't understand.
My understanding is that the parking is required both for employees and also for rare occasions when they need to train a wave of volunteer staff who will be manning the voting stations. If so, I agree that there is no need to have dedicated on-site parking as part of the program (The old adage is that you don't build your church capacity to accomodate Easter Sunday). Making use of existing parking garages would make more sense.
I also agree that the Hayden Burns Library (with a loading dock) would seem to suffice. It might be a little tricky because they have times on election night when trucks are backed up delivering the elections machines to the office for downloading purposes. This could potentially create a bottleneck on some urban streets.
We had been hired by a private developer to develop a concept for a build-to-suit for the Supervisor of Elections (which was not successful). Based on the program given to us, I don't think having their office space on two floors would be detrimental either.
They do need a reasonable amount of space for storage of elections equipment in addition to administrative space.
Based on all of this, I agree with many of the previous posts that buildings such as the old Independent Life Bldg (JEA) or Hayden Burns Library could work for them.
The Haydon Burns Library would be an interesting site because it would fill a huge hole of dead activity within the heart of the Northbank. It's a little over 100,000 square feet. I assume the basement could be used for storage and the upper floors for SOE's needs? That would allow the street level to be utilized for a mix of interactive uses including a main entry for SOE.
^ that was my suggestion from the beginning
Doug, I'd agree with you on the parking component if it were anything other than the supervisor of elections. Voter turnout is low enough as is, the last thing we need is a factor like parking to keep people away from the polls. If parking is an issue for someone once, they may not ever come back to vote again. Also, if word gets around the morning of election day that parking is a mess, you may have people decide not to vote later in the day.
I would also imagine that there are federal and state mandates that say a certain amount of parking must be provided at elections offices. That is likely why it needs to be near a bus route as well. Otherwise, you'd have sketchy political groups trying to deter voter turnout, through isolated siting, difficult access, and limited parking.
Now perhaps the SOE could get the city to allow free parking in garages election day or something of that nature, but I think the parking needs to be abundant and accessible.
I'm not sure that the parking is for voters.
I believe it's for staff and the occasional vounteer training sessions that they run at their office.
I could be wrong. It'd be nice to get verification on this.
It would be foolish not to have federal parking/transit/access regulations for siting of elections offices. If there weren't, both political parties could easily limit the opportunies for those of the opposite side.
QuoteI need 65,000 square feet, with 2 loading docks 150 parking spaces, one story, on the city’s bus route.
Too bad the City sold the Library to private hands.
There are plenty of warehouses, true warehouses, west of 95 in the Beaver Street/Myrtle Street areas. If my memory serves me right, there are a number near the Rock Tenn facility and close to downtown as well. But again, private hands. The Clerk of Courts had a building over off of Jessie Street and it had the dock, not enough parking, but on the bus route and it was a public building. It would be a start.
Quote from: mtraininjax on August 26, 2012, 06:18:55 AM
QuoteI need 65,000 square feet, with 2 loading docks 150 parking spaces, one story, on the city’s bus route.
Too bad the City sold the Library to private hands.
yeah, but it is for sale again....I'm sure Cesery would be happy to unload it
Quote from: tufsu1 on August 26, 2012, 08:25:02 AM
Quote from: mtraininjax on August 26, 2012, 06:18:55 AM
QuoteI need 65,000 square feet, with 2 loading docks 150 parking spaces, one story, on the city’s bus route.
Too bad the City sold the Library to private hands.
yeah, but it is for sale again....I'm sure Cesery would be happy to unload it
Yeah, he'd be happy. His asking price is the exact amount of money it would take him to break even on the whole thing. Clearly he wants to get rid of it.
QuoteMayor Alvin Brown’s administration isn’t opposed to Holland’s idea but is looking at a study that would examine the best use of all city-owned property.
This is excellent news and LONG overdue. IMO. Nothing concrete should occur until this is done. I remember there was a push to change the location of the LaVilla Middle School at the 11th hour, but it was not done because it would delay the construction. That was a bad decision, IMO. The best property in all of LaVillla for residential infill was consumed for a surbandan style school, that could have gone elsewhere, even within the urban core.
Holland is to be commended for his idea and his email response, but he may be too welded to the one-story requirement.
I think the city should do a Request For Proposals on this. I'm sure someone somewhere has a warehouse in private hands that they would like to unload for a bargain.
The seafood restaurant building was a bad idea, but if done wrong (ie as Lakelander describes above), there could be TWO big mistakes on the same site.
I forwarded on some responses. So we shall see what he says, but it sound like there is some discussion going on so we'll see what him and the mayor bang out.
Here is my response to Jerry's reply and his reply:
Jerry
I appreciate your speedy reply and it sounds like you’ve done a lot to try and work on saving the tax payers money. From my perspective, I would just like to see the city take more of an urban approach to our city buildings, build up instead of out. I’ve been discussing this with some folks over at Metro Jacksonville, which I feel is a great forum for forward thinking ideas in the city. Here are some suggestions made from some of the commenters about alternative sites. Of course none of these are owned city properties so I am sure that impacts the decision and the costs. However the inherent benefits of using existing historic structures far out way the short term costs.
1) None of the other government facilities downtown have dedicated surface parking. Not the Tax Collector on Forsyth, not City Hall or the City Hall Annex, not the Courthouse. There is no reason they can't use the public parking garages or the on-street parking system - or encourage people to use public transportation.
2) Is there an ordinance that prohibits city departments from leasing space from private buildings? I don't believe so, because otherwise we would not see so many Tax Collectors’ offices in shopping centers throughout town.
The old library has at least 65,000 sf, a loading dock and a parking garage across the street.
Another comment:
My major concern with the general parameters are they seem to be suburban oriented and its going to be impossible to fit them into an urban Jacksonville setting without negatively impacting the surrounding atmosphere. The only suitable locations would be urban industrial zones with brick warehouses obsolete for many modern distribution uses.
With that said, those parameters are better suited for a warehouse like the old Load King building off Beaver & Minnie Street (1357 West Beaver, near Shiloh Baptist & I-95).
Michael
One reason dedicated parking is necessary is because voting is a protected right that must have a higher level of accessibility. Making voters pay parking or walk long distances from parking garages is seen as barriers for those with limited mobility or finances for parking. We did look at the old library, but there was no public parking, and the accessibility to load out 32 trucks for the elections appeared create a traffic problem. Also, because of the need to have the ware house on the first floor, have in other offices on the 2nd floor make it more difficult for voter access. We have looked at ware house only sites however the location must also house our call center, poll worker training rooms, canvassing, absentee ballot processing center, making these locations distant of our downtown office creates an inefficient operation and cost more to operate, also we have the need for the location to still be very accessible from all locations for poll worker training and post election canvassing.
Please don’t see my responses as being critical because I do appreciate the feedback and chance to bounce back our concerns.
Sincerely,
Jerry Holland
SOE
Another pleasant response. This is incredibly refreshing.
It sounds like the public parking is going to be required. I wonder if there would be a way to work the parking, perhaps reducing the number of dedicated spaces and design the building to fit around it. Also, maybe we can persuade him to go with a more urban design for the rest of the site (that is, if we can find a way to make the building more compact but still meet the office's other needs.)
With his parameters, he needs to be in an industrial park or on those empty lots lining I-95, where JTA wants to build the sprawling JRTC. Behind the JRTC gives you visibility, accessibility to both I-95 and the skyway. Also, I still believe something off Myrtle/Beaver is doable for his parameters, while still being centrally accessible.
Holland's attitude is to be commended. He seems focused yet open-minded. Many times if public officials would merely COMMUNICATE their reasonings, they and the public would have a better understanding and a greater level of trust.
Maybe one idea is simply to renovate/build something that is 'wrapped' in space that could be used for other purposes. In other words, there might be space within the footprint of the building for a sandwich shop or other use that keeps the entire site from being so single-purpose and a potential dead zone, after hours.
Quote from: jaxlore on August 28, 2012, 09:24:43 AM
Here is my response to Jerry's reply and his reply:
Jerry
I appreciate your speedy reply and it sounds like you’ve done a lot to try and work on saving the tax payers money. From my perspective, I would just like to see the city take more of an urban approach to our city buildings, build up instead of out. I’ve been discussing this with some folks over at Metro Jacksonville, which I feel is a great forum for forward thinking ideas in the city. Here are some suggestions made from some of the commenters about alternative sites. Of course none of these are owned city properties so I am sure that impacts the decision and the costs. However the inherent benefits of using existing historic structures far out way the short term costs.
1) None of the other government facilities downtown have dedicated surface parking. Not the Tax Collector on Forsyth, not City Hall or the City Hall Annex, not the Courthouse. There is no reason they can't use the public parking garages or the on-street parking system - or encourage people to use public transportation.
2) Is there an ordinance that prohibits city departments from leasing space from private buildings? I don't believe so, because otherwise we would not see so many Tax Collectors’ offices in shopping centers throughout town.
The old library has at least 65,000 sf, a loading dock and a parking garage across the street.
Another comment:
My major concern with the general parameters are they seem to be suburban oriented and its going to be impossible to fit them into an urban Jacksonville setting without negatively impacting the surrounding atmosphere. The only suitable locations would be urban industrial zones with brick warehouses obsolete for many modern distribution uses.
With that said, those parameters are better suited for a warehouse like the old Load King building off Beaver & Minnie Street (1357 West Beaver, near Shiloh Baptist & I-95).
Michael
One reason dedicated parking is necessary is because voting is a protected right that must have a higher level of accessibility. Making voters pay parking or walk long distances from parking garages is seen as barriers for those with limited mobility or finances for parking. We did look at the old library, but there was no public parking, and the accessibility to load out 32 trucks for the elections appeared create a traffic problem. Also, because of the need to have the ware house on the first floor, have in other offices on the 2nd floor make it more difficult for voter access. We have looked at ware house only sites however the location must also house our call center, poll worker training rooms, canvassing, absentee ballot processing center, making these locations distant of our downtown office creates an inefficient operation and cost more to operate, also we have the need for the location to still be very accessible from all locations for poll worker training and post election canvassing.
Please don’t see my responses as being critical because I do appreciate the feedback and chance to bounce back our concerns.
Sincerely,
Jerry Holland
SOE
I do not see anything in this response that would exclude the old Claude Nolan building at 1st street and Orange street off Main Street. They were considering it before I think. Parking, loading docks, bus line, all accounted for. Does any one know why it has to be a 1 story building?
I can see at least two that would exclude the Claude Nolan.
1. All three buildings at the Claude Nolan site combined are less than 50,000 square feet of space over multiple floors. He mentioned he wanted 65,000 on a single floor.
2. Claude Nolan only has one or two loading docks. If getting 32 trucks in and out of the Haydon Burns is a problem, so will it be at Claude Nolan.
Looking at Holland's site criteria keeps driving me back to the Myrtle Avenue warehouse district.
1. 65,000 square feet
2. 2 loading docks
3. 150 free dedicated parking spaces
4. City bus route
5. City owned property
6. Warehouse on first floor
7. Building would house call center, poll worker training rooms, canvassing, absentee ballot processing center
8. Centrally accessible
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Other/mi/i-42Bj6G8/0/L/SOE-MAP-L.jpg)
The green site is what the article mentions he's interested in. However, this is on Union Street, which should be a gateway to downtown. Whatever goes in that area should add life to the street and complement the Ritz Theatre to some degree. A 65,000 metal or precast warehouse building does the exact opposite by cementing a large stretch of State as dead space. With that in mind, without urbanizing his selection criteria, two other sites come to mind.
Highlighted in yellow are surface lots owned by JTA, adjacent to the JRTC. To me, this looks like a decent location to build something from the ground up. Considering I-95 is well above ground level at that point, the frontage would be a great spot to place something like a warehouse with no street activity beside it. SOE's office uses could then shield warehouse/processing operations from the street. If you want to be accessible, it doesn't be more accessible than being located at the city's long term intermodal transit center and on/off ramps to I-95. Also, the skyway is across the street, so workers at other downtown locations have the option to use it to access the site. The major drawback is JTA would have to be willing to share some of this property with their crystal palace of a transportation center. To me, it seems like it would be a good deal because you basically put a dedicated ridership base right at a major transit hub.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/Revised-Greyhound-Terminal/i-txM8x77/0/L/12082011-DDRB-AgendaPage47-L.jpg)
The site is the white area highlighted as existing parking between I-95 and the proposed JRTC bus terminal on Forsyth Street.
The other location is an existing warehouse on Beaver Street, two blocks west of I-95 that was once utilized by Load King Manufacturing. Solid brick and open space, all constructed between 1949 and 1960. It's probably cheaper to work with an existing raw space box like this than build from the ground up.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Other/mi/i-w2WStML/0/M/SOE-Load-King-M.jpg)
1. 65,000 square feet? Check. Here you have 100,000 square feet between three brick buildings with floor heights of 21, 18 and 16 feet to play with.
2. 2 loading docks? Check. There's five facing Myrtle Street. For the off chance you want more, the entire west side has a continuous rail dock area for a rail siding that used to tie into the abandoned S-Line.
3. 150 free dedicated parking spaces? Check. This used to be a manufacturing plant that employed hundreds. There's an existing parking lot that would have to be rebuilt but the land is there. For overflow, you can also parallel park on Minnie Street.
4. City bus route? Check. It's served by the B7 and B9, providing direct access with Rosa Parks Station and soon the JRTC.
5. City owned property? This site isn't owned by the city. Load King still owns it but its been available for years and they obviously don't need the extra space. In this market, the private sector will probably give you a better deal than the city.
6. Warehouse on first floor. Check? Other than a couple of second floor offices facing Minnie Street, the entire thing is one big open box.
7. Building would house call center, poll worker training rooms, canvassing, absentee ballot processing center. Check? It's one big brick and concrete open box with high ceiling heights. Build whatever you want and even sublease the extra space if you want too. Companies are doing cool things with old warehouses these days.
(http://assets.inhabitat.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2011/07/Bogue-Building-FFKR-Architects-12-537x405.jpg)
8. Centrally accessible? Check. Beaver Street is just as accessible as State & Union. It's only one block south of Union and this warehouse is two blocks west of Interstate 95. Definitely beats Gateway when considering accessibility.
Quote from: dougskiles on August 24, 2012, 12:53:14 PM
Quote from: jaxlore on August 24, 2012, 10:45:16 AM
Michael
I would welcome an existing building. I need 65,000 square feet, with 2 loading docks 150 parking spaces, one story, on the city’s bus route. I have looked but would welcome looking at any site you are aware of. I did have the city’s real estate division also review all city own properties. I will say as mentioned the site we are looking forward is city owned property. Also, you called it a State Building, it would actually be a City Building.
Sincerely,
Jerry Holland
Encouraging to see such a quick response. I have two issues with his statement.
1) None of the other government facilities downtown have dedicated surface parking. Not the Tax Collector on Forsyth, not City Hall or the City Hall Annex, not the Courthouse. There is no reason they can't use the public parking garages or the on-street parking system - or encourage people to use public transportation.
2) Is there an ordinance that prohibits city departments from leasing space from private buildings? I don't believe so, because otherwise we would not see so many Tax Collector's offices in shopping centers throughout town.
The old library has at least 65,000 sf, a loading dock and a parking garage across the street.
Have the boundaries of the new Downtown Authority been identified yet? The Reason is and this goes to a recent public hearing on 2012-202 free parking for city council members.
The 150 parking spaces. Under the new Authority parking will be a primary revenue source. I realize that it is not the ultimate deal breaker but what amount of the 150 parking spaces is dedicated for employees and public?
So if the new SOE is outside of the zone it's a non issue. If its within the zone the Authority will have total control and the balance of parking revenue for events as opposed to general employment will be looked at. just a thought and this is what has happened with food trucks and goes back to 2010-856 the transient vendor ban. With the only exception being Downtown. So with the new Authority. What is the plan? Public,Private,Parking (Partnership)
Quote from: thelakelander on August 28, 2012, 08:08:46 PM
The green site is what the article mentions he's interested in. However, this is on Union Street, which should be a gateway to downtown. Whatever goes in that area should add life to the street and complement the Ritz Theatre to some degree. A 65,000 metal or precast warehouse building does the exact opposite by cementing a large stretch of State as dead space.
Lots of good ideas here...I just want to add that since a significant portion of his program is office / administrative space, there's no reason why the warehouse component of his new building has to be visually dominant on Union Street. A building could easily be designed with this "public" face on Union and the warehouse component tucked discretely behind it. It wouldn't be storefront retail but it could still be lots of glass and activity in the building as seen from the street. This would still be acceptable in a "gateway" type of area as you mentioned.
Thinking out of the box here... could the Ford Motor Assembly Plant be used for this? It is one floor and is MORE than big enough, perhaps too big, but maybe OTHER city/school district/state functions/warehousing could go in too?
I assume it wouldn't be on a Bus route, but I really don't know for sure, and couldn't that be changed?
JaxArchitect, that means you then kill the Beaver Street frontage at the pedestrian level. If we want this area to be vibrant, at least that's what was once claimed, you need to minimize dead space on all four street edges.
Lake,
Why the hell you are not the Mayor of Jacksonville?
-Josh
Quote from: thelakelander on August 29, 2012, 11:58:33 AM
JaxArchitect, that means you then kill the Beaver Street frontage at the pedestrian level. If we want this area to be vibrant, at least that's what was once claimed, you need to minimize dead space on all four street edges.
Respectfully, I don't necessarily agree. Admittedly, there will be some portion of the building that would most likely be windowless, but it doesn't have to be the majority of the building. This constraint is common to many buildings and doesn't necessarily mean that these facades need to be lifeless or "dead."
I think that the benefit that this new facility could add by enlivening the Union St. corridor and developing vacant property could outweigh a minor issue of a blank facade facing Beaver (& LaVilla School of the Arts) which I don't think is likely to have many pedestrians anyway. Also, I'd much rather see these employees be located on the fringe of downtown on this site than on the other side of I-95. It'd be much more likely that they'd support other downtown businesses on their lunch hour, etc.
I still agree with many who've pointed out that the ideal situation would be to locate them in an existing building, but I've not hear a good solution on property that is City Owned.
Good points, JaxArchitect. I agree that an ideal situation would be an existing building, I'm just not sold on putting that much warehouse space on arterial downtown "gateway" streets. When I made my comment regarding Beaver, I was looking at it from a neighborhood perspective, moreso than being site specific. Beaver plays a large role in the future of LaVilla and New Town and the connectivity of these areas and other Westside neighborhoods with the Northbank core. From that perspective, Beaver (at least that stretch, including the LaVilla School of the Arts undeveloped property) is still salvageable, unlike most of LaVilla today.
The Beaver/Minnie Street warehouse being two blocks west of I-95 doesn't concern me as much because Church Street is a direct connector from that area into downtown's heart. In either case, employees desiring to eat at downtown's restaurants will drive because there is nothing else in the immediate area. If they are driving, an extra three or four blocks west isn't going to stop that from happening. However, this probably doesn't matter since it appeared that a company is in the process of moving into one of the warehouse buildings when I drove by earlier today.
Quote
Duval elections office considers site of failed restaurant as new location
Posted: August 30, 2012 - 5:47pm | Updated: August 31, 2012 - 6:25am
Photos
DON BURK/The Times-Union
The old Sax Seafood restaurant is pictured here in 2008.
Infographic
Davis Street and Beaver Street, Jacksonville, Florida
By Steve Patterson
Duval elections office considers site of failed restaurant as new location
Steve Patterson
August 31, 2012 6:25 AM EDT
Copyright 2012 The Florida Times-Union. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Years after Jacksonville leaders hoped an unfinished restaurant could breathe life into downtown's LaVilla, the same site is in the running to become a new elections office.
The City Council voted Tuesday to consider the former Sax Seafood & Grill property at Union and Davis streets as a potential new headquarters for the Duval County supervisor of elections.
“It just puts it in the mix for consideration,†said Councilman Clay Yarborough, who introduced the resolution (2012-468) after he and other council members reviewed prospective sites this year. The city owns the property already, and the resolution tells lawyers, auditors and other city workers to assemble the information needed to judge whether it has potential as an elections site.
It looks promising at first glance, Supervisor of Elections Jerry Holland said.
It's downtown and close to Interstate 95, but has enough parking area available to make it attractive, he said.
It might make sense financially, too, said Holland, noting the rent he pays for a cavernous space at the Gateway Shopping Center elections office warehouse has totaled in the millions over several years.
“Over the next 10 years, we'll plow another $6 million in†and still not own anything, Holland said.
He’s not sure what a new building there would cost but said pitches from developers suggest costs might be as low as $5 million.
Finding a new site isn't simple, he said.
Holland said he has personally visited about 30 sites. The new office ideally would be able to replace both the Gateway site and the current headquarters at 105 E. Monroe St., making another downtown site attractive.
An Orlando developer started construction on Sax in 2005 after lining up a $1.9 million loan from the city. The building was never finished, and in 2008 the developer handed over the site in return for the city dropping any claim to have the loan repaid.
The building has been fenced and partly boarded up since then.
Holland said the vote to look at the property wouldn’t lock anyone in, but that it's important to move toward some plan for a new elections site. If a solution is reached quickly, he said, a site might be ready before the 2014 statewide elections. But otherwise the office might have to push its timing back because of the 2015 city races.
A foreclosure case this year involving Gateway underscored the value of settling on a new site, Yarborough said. If a new owner opted to sell Gateway or kick out its tenants, “at this point they don't owe us anything,†he said.
“No matter what we do, we need to do something,†Yarborough said.
Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2012-08-30/story/duval-elections-office-considers-site-failed-restaurant-new-location#ixzz258au8GwV
Looks like he must have been listening to my conversation about that building! ;D
Let's keep in contact with Holland to make sure whatever is chosen is as good as we can make it. Lake, you might email him the suggestions you posted here if you haven't already.
Looks like Mayor Brown has same thinking, no new building necessary.
From Daily Record today:
City: Yates Building 'promising' for SOE
11/23/2012
by David Chapman, Staff Writer
Mayor Alvin Brown's administration is recommending any potential move of the Supervisor of Elections Office should be Downtown into the Yates Building and not to the Sax Property in La Villa, which a report to City Council states could cost up to $10.8 million.
The cost, recommendations and a brief history of the buildings are included in a report issued Wednesday to City Council from the administration.
Council passed a resolution in August directing the administration to conduct a review of a possible consolidation and relocation of the Supervisor of Elections Office functions.
The office has two buildings â€" its main office Downtown at 105 E. Monroe St. and an elections center at the Gateway Mall at 5200-2 Norwood Ave.
The Downtown office is about 10,000 square feet and the center is about 50,000 square feet, according to the report.
Brown allowed the Council resolution to become law without his signature and responded in a Sept. 11 letter saying he supported the consolidation goal but had "concerns about building a large, new government facility during these challenging times." In that letter, Brown said Holland estimated a construction cost of at least $5 million.
The report said the City Public Works Department estimates a new La Villa facility would cost $10.8 million, but that Supervisor of Elections Jerry Holland provided a plan for a $6.8 estimate.
The report also said Holland believes a Request for Proposals could result in a lower price for the project, which includes construction of the building and parking lot.
In addition, the City owns the La Villa property and the sale of the elections main office could defray the cost of a new building, the report said.
The report also said Holland stated a need for at least 65,000 square feet with two loading docks and 150 parking spots, among other features.
Holland also said in the report that a private developer who provided the $6.8 million cost estimate said the La Villa project could take 12-13 months. Public Works said the project would take between 21 months, which includes design and build, and 26 months, which includes design, bid and build.
The report also said consolidation would save an estimated $75,000 annually, according to the elections office.
The report said if the Yates Building were to be used, its current tenants â€" the Property Appraiser's Office, Tax Collector and several City departments â€" would be relocated.
In its detail of the Yates Building, the report said Holland is willing to examine the building for the office's use but he is concerned about the lack of a sufficient loading dock to accommodate Election Day operations and he said the building does not contain large enough freight elevators for some equipment.
The administration has four recommendations for a potential move:
• It "strongly" recommends the main elections office headquarters remain Downtown with other constitutional offices, which aligns with Brown and Council's Downtown revitalization efforts.
• Due to current City fiscal challenges, it does not recommend an additional $6.8 million to $10.8 million in debt that would be needed to build a new elections office Downtown on property that could have commercial potential.
• It "finds promising" the possibility the City-owned Yates Building could be used to house all or part of the elections operations. It also recommends the administration closely work with the supervisor of elections to determine how the building could accommodate the office and report back by Jan. 21.
• It found if the Yates Building, alone or in conjunction with the current elections main office, could not accommodate elections operations, the City could maintain the existing main office and pursue a new long-term lease with the Gateway Mall or another facility that could save taxpayers and meet elections needs.
dchapman@baileypub.com
(904)356-2466
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=538104
Well, at least they're talking about it; hopefully something productive will come of the discussion. I'm pretty disappointed with those recommendations, though.
#1 sounds good at first, but if the office's needs require a suburban or industrial style building, it should not be in the downtown core.
#2 is incredibly short-sighted. It very well could end up saving pennies this year at the expense of pounds later.
#3 is great, mostly, if the Yates building serves *all* of the office's needs.
#4 is just downright terrible.
I'm definitely not a big fan of them staying at Gateway. I think that not only is a bad idea for the city but also for the redevelopment of Gateway.
Another point that Holland brought up on TV was that you have to clear a security desk to get into the Yates Building - which might be a problem for voters.
If we are reconfiguring city buildings, and moving offices from one to another - why not reconfigure the Ed Ball building. It seems enough room could be found on the first floor for the "front end' operations (including that big 'training room' on the 1st floor), the garage should provide plenty of access for moving elections equipment (might have to cut some new doors). There is on-street parking, an attached garage, and the Court House garage is close by ("validate" parking?).
Another option comes to light for the SOE facility.
QuoteJACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- The city council is now considering a proposal to move the Supervisor of Elections offices from the Gateway Mall into part of the first floor of One Imeson Industrial Park.
"We would build the space to their exact needs versus refurbishing their space," said Senior Vice President of the Phoenix Realty Group, Ladson Montgomery.
Under the 10-year contract, the city would pay $39,999.96 in the first year for maintenance costs. The amount would go up to $260,199.96 in the second year. The cost would go up three-percent every year after that.
"Gateway was built as a retail center," said Montgomery. "This building is a distribution operation center so it's ideal for a situation like the Supervisor of Elections."
http://www.actionnewsjax.com/content/topstories/story/Moving-out-of-Gateway-could-save-taxpayers-big/xb5lptW2BU66mXE9Uq6TXg.cspx
Holland said one of his criterea was bus service available for visitors and poll worker training. Also, let's get it closer to the core city.
^Agreed. This is foolish.
Wtf. This is ridiculous!!!!!!!!!
What kind of bus service serves Imeson? Whatever it is, it can't be the type of high frequency service that Holland said was needed when he wanted to build in LaVilla and it's certainly not centralized. If cost is the main consideration, they'd be better off simply buying a cheap warehouse in the urban core, like in the Springfield Warehouse District or Talleyrand.
The definition of penny wise and pound foolish.
Yes, the Imeson idea - which was floated during the earlier discussions - is dumb. Primarily because of lack of bus service. I thought the current plan is for the new landlords at Gateway to fix the place and reduce the rent? Gateway has lots of bus service - the JTA Northside hub is just yards from the SOE's door. Still leaves them with two offices.
Quote
City Council member Matt Schellenberg has proposed legislation for the City to move the elections center of the Supervisor of Elections to North Jacksonville.
His bill competes with legislation to keep the center at Gateway Shopping Center. There's also an offer for space in the Southgate center.
Schellenberg said he was disappointed a City Request for Proposals was not issued to invite more offers.
"There is a lot of people that had an interest in it," Schellenberg said last week. "I think that's politics," he said.
Asked if a proposal could or would be issued for the elections center space needs, administration spokesman David DeCamp on Monday said he would have to ask the City's procurement department.
Schellenberg's bill proposes that the City sign a 10-year lease with GIV Imeson LLC for space at 1 Imeson Park Blvd. in the Imeson International Industrial Park.
The lease rate would be just under $40,000 for the first year, which represents common area maintenance fees and no rent, with rent beginning at just more than $260,000 in the second year.
Rents would then escalate by 3 percent each year. The lease also would provide that the landlord will make improvements valued at up to $650,000 before occupancy and pay $100,000 in moving costs.
Schellenberg said last week he proposed the legislation for the Imeson deal because Council auditors determined it was the best deal for the City
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=539019
It needs to be kept in the core. Moving it to Gateway (or any other area) would require most people to have to go downtown and then catch another bus to get out to Gateway. Keeping it in the core means people need to catch a bus downtown to get to the office.
The main election office would remain downtown. Moving anything to Imeson is not a smart idea. No transit service at all to speak of.
Yes, what they are talking about moving is already at Gateway. The downtown offices will remain downtown. Imeson may be the best for the city money wise but it certainly isn't accessible to the general public. Gateway is at least a major JTA bus hub. I don't think One Imeson has direct bus service.
There is a community shuttle that runs on 60 minute headways between Dinsmore and River City Marketplace that stops nearby. To get access One Imeson from the rest of the city, you would have to take the CT1 or NS19 from Rosa Parks and transfer to the Dinsmore community shuttle. The NS19 has 60 minute headways and the CT1 runs on 30 minute headways.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Other/mi/i-Q9ND5sW/0/O/Imeson%20Bus.jpg)
Here is the latest entry into the competition for housing the SOE office as submitted by Councilwoman Boyer via the Daily Record.
QuoteThe competition for the site of the elections center of the Supervisor of Elections continues to expand after City Council member Lori Boyer introduced legislation Tuesday for the mayor to execute a lease agreement with Demetree Brothers Inc. for space at the Southgate Shopping Plaza.
Demetree Brothers is the third proposal that has been introduced through legislation, joining Council member John Crescimbeni's pitch to keep the center at the Gateway Shopping Center and Council member Matt Schellenberg's legislation to move the center to One Imeson in North Jacksonville.
According to Boyer's legislation, Demetree Brothers proposes to offer a lease for 50,000 square feet of usable space at 3428 Beach Blvd., site of the former Duval County Traffic Court and Traffic Violations Bureau. Both services were moved to the Duval County Courthouse earlier this year, freeing up the space.
The proposal offers a 10-year lease with free rent in its first year. The second year would have rent of just under $295,000 â€" about $25,000 a month â€" with annual increases of 3 percent. In year nine of the agreement, annual rent is just under $363,000, or a little more than $30,000 a month.
Through the length of the deal, the City would pay about $3 million in rent.
It also provides for one additional two-year extension, which the City could trigger
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=539208
Sounds like a good proposal. Good transportation connections there as well. Win-Win; and the Demetree Brothers have an excellent track record.
Ennis, what is your take on the Demetree proposal? I am curious to know your thoughts on this.
I haven't looked into the details yet but the location is more accessible than Imeson. Gateway is the most accessible but I haven't compared leasing rates. Personally, I think the city would be better served buying an existing warehouse in Talleyrand, the Springfield Warehouse District or the Beaver Street area. Prices are pretty cheap right now, it would be a boost to economically depressed areas and all are accessible by bus.
Thanks for your insights. I am guessing that the Demetree proposal will be a go. Call it a gut feeling. That is why I wondered how you viewed it.