I've been suggesting this to folks for a few years....if anything gets done at JTB/95, this is the way to go
http://jacksonville.com/news/florida/2012-08-01/story/florida-will-consider-tolling-flyover-connecting-interstate-95-butler
And what if the tolls don't cover the cost of construction - or even maintenance? Will we hear from mayoral candidates proposing to shut it down because it doesn't pay for itself?
Quote from: tufsu1 on August 02, 2012, 10:35:56 AM
I've been suggesting this to folks for a few years....if anything gets done at JTB/95, this is the way to go
http://jacksonville.com/news/florida/2012-08-01/story/florida-will-consider-tolling-flyover-connecting-interstate-95-butler
This is what should have been built in the first place but the FDOT didn't really think ahead did they. And now since every Republican can't stand to raise taxes for improvements for the Roads and Bridges. We the working slaves are to be told if you use it We are going to Toll it!
Quote from: dougskiles on August 02, 2012, 11:29:22 AM
And what if the tolls don't cover the cost of construction - or even maintenance? Will we hear from mayoral candidates proposing to shut it down because it doesn't pay for itself?
No. Tolls for road construction rarely do cover the full cost of construction and long term maintenance. Even the FDOT secretary has already admitted this. However, since road construction and maintenance isn't a profitable business, FDOT loses less money per project if they can at least collect some "fare box revenue" from the users. Hmm, this toll road stuff is starting to sound a lot like mass transit.
why even do the flyover?
Quote from: dougskiles on August 02, 2012, 11:29:22 AM
And what if the tolls don't cover the cost of construction - or even maintenance? Will we hear from mayoral candidates proposing to shut it down because it doesn't pay for itself?
I highly doubt it will come close to covering the cost of construction...most of these manged lanes toll projects are just meant to pay for O & M
Larry is generous when he says 'considering'. I believe the video of that interview should be up on Jacksonville.com within a few days.
Quote from: fsquid on August 02, 2012, 01:26:46 PM
why even do the flyover?
So the traffic on JTB can flow better. And you don't get that huge back up on I 95 South.
Quote from: If_I_Loved_you on August 02, 2012, 03:40:36 PM
Quote from: fsquid on August 02, 2012, 01:26:46 PM
why even do the flyover?
So the traffic on JTB can flow better. And you don't get that huge back up on I 95 South.
How much is that really worth? The road is empty most of the day.
system-to-system interchanges (meaning it connects 2 expressways) are free-flow....obviously JTB was not always an expressway and that's why the one ramp is still signalized today...but note that southbound-to-eastbound is the only non-free-flow ramp left at the interchange.
as for traffic counts, here are numbers for 2011:
I-95 north of JTB - 139,000 vehicles per day
JTB east of I-95 - 91,000 vehicles per day
JTB west of I-95 - 38,500 vehicles per day
I-95 southbound ramp to JTB - 24,000 vehicles per day (most of them tunring left and heading east on JTB)
a general rule of thumb for traffic is that that the am and pm peak hours are each roughly 10% of daily volumes....and that in general capacity terms, a single free-flow travel lane can handle roughly 2,000 cars per hour
Why do they want a $125 million flyover anyway? Why not a regular loop like the other two ramps?
Quote from: Lunican on August 02, 2012, 04:05:16 PM
Why do they want a $125 million flyover anyway? Why not a regular loop like the other two ramps?
what they want is a $50 million ramp...
from what I understand, cloverleafs are no longer viewed as ideal....they have merging issues and are too slow for trucks..so system-to-system ramps are now being built as flyovers everywhere (I'm sure the concrete industry loves it)....there's also no room for a loop here (it would interfere with eastbound JTB to south 95 ramp).
the other $75 million comes in additional expressway widening and converting the portion of JTB west of I-95 into a semi-expressway....those projects are wholly not needed...and while they won't see it outright, I think JTA knows that...which is why the project is now being phased.
None of it is needed. If people don't want to sit in traffic they shouldn't drive so much.
$125 million to shave 5 minutes off?
Quote from: fsquid on August 02, 2012, 05:39:27 PM
$125 million to shave 5 minutes off?
To whom is this supposed to be a bargain ?
I'm with the group that views all of these flyovers and road widening projects as a waste of money right now. I drive through the JTB-I95 intersection every day and when there is a lot of traffic it adds maybe 4-5 minutes to my commute. Adding the extra ramp lanes helped a great deal with safety, and I don't think anything else is needed. Why don't we invest in easy access park-n-rides or convert the far left lane to a HOV lane? These strategies would encourage carpooling and be better for our city in the long run. And they could be done at a fraction of the cost. I think I remember Lake or someone else posting an article/study a few years back about how adding lanes doesn't actually reduce congestion. I used to live in a metro area half the size of Jacksonville and we had numerous park-n-ride lots. In fact, before I moved to Florida they were making them larger because people had to park on the grass. Jacksonville doesn't have any!
Build the flyover from SB 95 to east JTB! It comes down to what phases that they want to build the expressway on JTB from 95 to US1!
Adopting the case made by ReasonTV as his own, Lem Blogiver argues that liberty-loving people love toll roads. Back in the 1980s when he was mayor of Jacksonville, that commie pinko socialist DemocratTommy Hazouri must have really hated liberty to have gotten rid of the tolled bridges and roads. You can read Lem's case here in "Phantom Toll Booths":
http://blogiverstravels.wordpress.com/2012/08/03/phantom-toll-booths/
Sure its not need NOW, but what about in 5 years when the economy has come back and the crush of cars to the expanded offices of Merrill Lynch/BCBSFL/PHH Mortgage/RSH and others have forced the backups onto I-95S to create more backups on the road and more crashes, delays in time, and costing employers money?
If the flyover helps the employers, have their employees pay for it and let's create a "Public/Private" partnership where we all benefit?