Metro Jacksonville

Is the JRTC a Mistake in the Making?

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Transit/Jacksonville-Transportation/i-Rd3XSX6/0/X2/Greyhound-X2.jpg)

Metro Jacksonville's Robert Mann presents an argument that years of planning for a 'Regional Transportation Center' have proved that Jacksonville Doesn't Get It!

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2012-aug-is-the-jrtc-a-mistake-in-the-making

I grew up in Santa Ana, CA, and witnessed the building of the regional transportation center.  What a great, vibrant place it is.  There are many examples of good centers.  The goal should be to make everything as close and easy to use.  I really don't understand why the current plan is acceptable.  What ever happened to peer review?  Jacksonville always seems to get the worst designed, most expensive design, where it is predicted to fail, and then it does.  Just because you are a planner or PE, does not mean you have a clue.

And when are the people briefed on these plans.  I don't remember voting on the mobility fee moratorium either.  Hell I don't even remember hearing anything about it outside of MJ.  I think the same can be said about the movement taking place on this poor excuse of a TC.  I am for hiring from the inside of these people are competent, but that is not what we have here;  We need to start looking elsewhere. 

They need to scrap the current plan and start over.  MJ has posted much better, less expensive, and functional plans.  Give the people what they want, don't tell them what they want.

^ the problem with that theory is a vast majority of people in Jacksonville probably see no need for the JRTC or transit at all.

as for the Greyhound Station, Mr. Blaylock told me last week that Greyhound really wants to be on Adams St..so they can get right onto I-95 NB....of course, never mind that being on Forsyth St would give them direct access from I-95 NB

"Oh for the love of the bloody poppycockies pippy pappy rubbish load of poppycock!"

JTA and its JRTC planners are the most stupidest organization on this planet. They want to blow our tax money for their own stupidity.

Do your part and tell them to SCRAP this plan, accept MJ's suggestion of their own plan, OR commission a new plan! Oh wait! They already wasted money on planning!

This frustrates me so much right now.

-Josh

Perhaps we can still consolidate the rest of the center even if Greyhound goes there. We still have time on the rest of it.

It's an attempt,  but definitely not a very good one. I guess in Jacksonville sprawl terms, its a consolidated center. And the attempt at transit-oriented development is adorable.

But effort isn't enough. Cattle have experienced more rational and consolidated transportation center than the JRTC. And while the arrangement of the TOD doesn't look too bad, it's not going to be mixed-use? That guarantees another neighborhood that shutters its blinds after 5 pm.

Safe to say, the City doesn't need a transportation center that spans 4 entire blocks.   I'm not sure even NYC needs a transportation center that spans nearly 4 football fields.  Even worse, it's on the outskirts of downtown.  It is near nothing of significance.  Even worse, all those buildings they labeled "retail" will sit vacant for as long as they as they used for that intended purpose.

Good job Jacksonville!

What exactly does the city think they are going to do with the rest of the Prime Osborn property once the convention center moves?  They might as well put it to good use and fill it with transit.

Also, is there currently any show/conference/convention that takes place in the Prime that couldn't fit somewhere else??  between the Hyatt, the area, the fairgrounds, metro park, not to mention facilities outside of DT, I am pretty sure we could service the current convention center schedule with other venues for a few years until the new one is built.

Why not put a lot of the retail-only development in the Prime Osborne and the actual terminal buildings and make the spaces labeled retail as mixed-use?

Quote from: Captain Zissou on August 01, 2012, 01:05:34 PM
What exactly does the city think they are going to do with the rest of the Prime Osborn property once the convention center moves?  They might as well put it to good use and fill it with transit.

Also, is there currently any show/conference/convention that takes place in the Prime that couldn't fit somewhere else??  between the Hyatt, the area, the fairgrounds, metro park, not to mention facilities outside of DT, I am pretty sure we could service the current convention center schedule with other venues for a few years until the new one is built.

I was on vacation recently and maybe missed it, but is relocating the Convention Center a 'done' or even 'close to done' deal?  Last I heard there was a plan to use the old courthouse site, but still very much a proposal at this point.   

Quote from: Tacachale on August 01, 2012, 10:13:44 AM
Perhaps we can still consolidate the rest of the center even if Greyhound goes there. We still have time on the rest of it.

I think JTA actually wants to do that...but until the City decided whether the Prime will or won't be a convention center, JTA feels its hands are tied.

They also constantly bring up the fact that they already have environmental approvals...and changes now would require going back and amending those

^Yeah, the convention center issue is something that needs to be solved, quick. We'll see.

On the environmental approvals, I'd rather stick JTA with a little more paperwork than stick Jacksonville with higher costs and second-rate buildings, but maybe that's just me.

Quote from: vicupstate on August 01, 2012, 01:53:12 PM

Quote from: Captain Zissou on August 01, 2012, 01:05:34 PM
What exactly does the city think they are going to do with the rest of the Prime Osborn property once the convention center moves?  They might as well put it to good use and fill it with transit.

Also, is there currently any show/conference/convention that takes place in the Prime that couldn't fit somewhere else??  between the Hyatt, the area, the fairgrounds, metro park, not to mention facilities outside of DT, I am pretty sure we could service the current convention center schedule with other venues for a few years until the new one is built.

I was on vacation recently and maybe missed it, but is relocating the Convention Center a 'done' or even 'close to done' deal?  Last I heard there was a plan to use the old courthouse site, but still very much a proposal at this point.   

It is not, but strong arguments have been made that the convention center is not worth its investment.  Regardless of what we do in the future, I think we need to quite using the PO as a convention center.

Quote from: tufsu1 on August 01, 2012, 08:59:33 AM
^ the problem with that theory is a vast majority of people in Jacksonville probably see no need for the JRTC or transit at all.

as for the Greyhound Station, Mr. Blaylock told me last week that Greyhound really wants to be on Adams St..so they can get right onto I-95 NB....of course, never mind that being on Forsyth St would give them direct access from I-95 NB

I anticipated that someone would jump on the 'Greyhound really wants to be...' line of reasoning via FDOT/JTA. REALLY? I'm an old Jacksonville intercity bus supervisor and spoke with the president and CEO of GLI. He told me in no uncertain terms that GREYHOUND IS NOT DRIVING THIS THING, FDOT AND JTA ARE.

Tacachale, something EVERY citizen of Jacksonville should know is once you allow a disconnected intercity bus terminal to be built, blocks away from the side of any train, connectivity is gone. What purpose is a Transportation Center if it is not to make a trip from New York to Gainesville palatable? Amtrak to Jacksonville and Greyhound to Gainesville. Once you insert 'Gator City Taxi' between the two, you no longer have a transportation center.

Greyhound's Jacksonville ridership is around 3,200,000 annually, Amtrak is a lightweight by comparison.

I'm going to say this with every ounce of my transit pundit heart and soul, BUILD THIS STATION AND THE JRTC COLLAPSES FROM AN INTERCITY TRANSFER HUB, TO A GOOD PLACE TO CATCH A BUS TO HEMMING PLAZA!

Mayor Brown? KILL THIS PROJECT. Consolidate the entire station into the old railroad terminal, the JRTC should be the surface hub of a 4 state region somewhat larger then LaVilla.

OCKLAWAHA

Quote from: Captain Zissou on August 01, 2012, 05:23:08 PM

Quote from: vicupstate on August 01, 2012, 01:53:12 PM

Quote from: Captain Zissou on August 01, 2012, 01:05:34 PM
What exactly does the city think they are going to do with the rest of the Prime Osborn property once the convention center moves?  They might as well put it to good use and fill it with transit.

Also, is there currently any show/conference/convention that takes place in the Prime that couldn't fit somewhere else??  between the Hyatt, the area, the fairgrounds, metro park, not to mention facilities outside of DT, I am pretty sure we could service the current convention center schedule with other venues for a few years until the new one is built.

I was on vacation recently and maybe missed it, but is relocating the Convention Center a 'done' or even 'close to done' deal?  Last I heard there was a plan to use the old courthouse site, but still very much a proposal at this point.   

It is not, but strong arguments have been made that the convention center is not worth its investment.  Regardless of what we do in the future, I think we need to quite using the PO as a convention center.

Do you mean a NEW Convention Center is not worth the investment, or even the existing one is not worth it's expense?

Quote from: Ocklawaha on August 01, 2012, 08:05:13 PM
Greyhound's Jacksonville ridership is around the same as JIA annually, Amtrak is a lightweight by comparison.

you're telling us the Greyhound has 6 million riders a year coming in and out of Jacksonville?  Or are you including those travelling through (that just stay on the bus)

Typical Jacksonville: Do it ass backwards!

These geniuses need to pull their heads out of their butts & visit the West Palm Beach transportation center. There, the beautiful old Seaboard Air Line depot now serves Amtrak, Tri-Rail, Greyhound, and Palmtrans. Have been there several times and never had any problems with the vile Greyhound passengers ;)

In West Palm Beach all passengers need to do to get from one mode of transit to another is walk down (or up) the platform, or walk over the tracks via pedestrian bridge.

Quote from: BackinJax05 on August 02, 2012, 12:20:55 AM
Typical Jacksonville: Do it ass backwards!

Yes!
Jacksonville wants to keep that small town mentality, so they fail on purpose!

Here's St. Paul, MN's intermodal center project.

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Other/mi/i-Mrm4Jdb/0/L/st-paul-L.jpg)

Eerily similar, it involves the renovation of a 1917 depot (Jax's was built in 1919) that closed in 1971 (Jax's closed in 1974). Construction began in 2010 and the project will be completed later this year.

Amtrak service begins 2012.
Local & Intercity bus service begins 2012.
LRT service begins when the Green Line opens in 2014.
Eventually, it will accommodate both commuter and high speed rail

Take a look at the site plan above and notice how compact the area is where passengers transfer between modes.

(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/216185_110665215684428_6359232_n.jpg)

(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/215843_110665179017765_5913681_n.jpg)

Quote from: thelakelander on August 02, 2012, 01:00:45 AM
Here's St. Paul, MN's intermodal center project.

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Other/mi/i-Mrm4Jdb/0/L/st-paul-L.jpg)

Eerily similar, it involves the renovation of a 1917 depot (Jax's was built in 1919) that closed in 1971 (Jax's closed in 1974). Construction began in 2010 and the project will be completed later this year.

Amtrak service begins 2012.
Local & Intercity bus service begins 2012.
LRT service begins when the Green Line opens in 2014.
Eventually, it will accommodate both commuter and high speed rail

Take a look at the site plan above and notice how compact the area is where passengers transfer between modes.

(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/216185_110665215684428_6359232_n.jpg)

(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/215843_110665179017765_5913681_n.jpg)

This could work here, too. We all know (except the geniuses with their heads up their butts) there is more than enough room at Jacksonville Terminal to do the same thing, only better.

Jacksonville Terminal is prettier than St. Paul's. I admire what they're doing up there, but that thing looks like an oversized tomb.

Just think of the money that could be generated just from the city/JTA being able to sell the unneeded excessive land,  Plus the tax revenue that would be generated from it.  That alone would pay the costs of redesigning it and more.

The excess land can be developed into apartment buildings, at least mid-rises but of course all of you I really want to see high-rises. We could really cluster it up with true urban TOD. And with all the possible residents, another supermarket would be practical, maybe the DT post office can be relocated for pedestrians to be able to use. It would be very easy to run a trolley over to the entertainment areas. (with a pretty small space, it would be to run often)

Maybe it's just me but, I feel as though the city and/or JTA simply assumes that people that use public transit, don't have extra money to spend. Is that why the buses don't seem to go where people want to go?

Is it too late to kill the current JRTC plan?

Miami's version:  http://criticalmiami.com/2012/07/30/riding-metrorail-to-the-new-miami-intermodal-center-and-the-airport

^ yeah, but don't ask how much that thing cost....it somewhere in the neighborhood of the JRTC cost ($180 million) x 15

Yeah, with that peoplemover, heavy rail platform and large concrete parking deck, they spent a pretty penny.

I liked this line:

Quotethe Miami Intermodal Center, which is basically a huge food court for car rental companies

Quote from: tufsu1 on August 01, 2012, 10:05:06 PM

Quote from: Ocklawaha on August 01, 2012, 08:05:13 PM
Greyhound's Jacksonville ridership is around the same as JIA annually, Amtrak is a lightweight by comparison.

you're telling us the Greyhound has 6 million riders a year coming in and out of Jacksonville?  Or are you including those travelling through (that just stay on the bus)

Good catch TUFSU... I meant to say, Greyhounds Jacksonville ridership is around 3.2 million annually (the actual number came from the CEO of GLI). Then stupidly running on memory and not having my notes in front of me, I somehow converted that to 8 million. Look's like I picked a bad day to quit sniffing glue!

Now when we are talking about critical mass let's assume that EVERY SINGLE JTA BUS & SKYWAY PASSENGER went into the JRTC, that's right at 10 million a year, + Greyhounds 3.2 + Amtrak's 74,000 the grand total would be: 13,348,733 using the 4 new stations. That comes to 3.3 million passengers - per station - per year. THAT is why we are told that we need this huge sprawling complex of stations. The grand old terminal handled 15 million passengers a year as an average! In fact it handled several times that number during the 'Great Florida Boom' of the 1920's. For a short time it was the busiest intercity railway station in the entire world. At that time it was handling 200 daily trains, many of which were operating in as  many as 24 'sections'.  So you bought a ticket on the Florida Special and the advance FS is ready to leave the station when you walk in, in 10 minutes the FS will leave, then the 2nd FS, 3Rd FS, 4Th FS etc... At some point the station was fielding something like 50 trains per hour. ONE STATION DID THIS, NOT TWO, THREE OR FOUR. I wish this city would quit this nonsense of overbuilding fixed transit facilities so badly that they have a built in guarantee to fail. Otherwise we are doomed to add the historic railway terminal to JTA/FDOTS list of carnage.

When one station easily handled 15 million annual passengers, then JTA/FDOT comes along with this plan and claims 3.3 million passengers per station is REQUIRED or we'll have a melt down, you have to say, don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. No tickee no laundry JTA.

Quote from: Ocklawaha on August 01, 2012, 08:05:13 PM

Quote from: tufsu1 on August 01, 2012, 08:59:33 AM
^ the problem with that theory is a vast majority of people in Jacksonville probably see no need for the JRTC or transit at all.

as for the Greyhound Station, Mr. Blaylock told me last week that Greyhound really wants to be on Adams St..so they can get right onto I-95 NB....of course, never mind that being on Forsyth St would give them direct access from I-95 NB

I anticipated that someone would jump on the 'Greyhound really wants to be...' line of reasoning via FDOT/JTA. REALLY? I'm an old Jacksonville intercity bus supervisor and spoke with the president and CEO of GLI. He told me in no uncertain terms that GREYHOUND IS NOT DRIVING THIS THING, FDOT AND JTA ARE.

Tacachale, something EVERY citizen of Jacksonville should know is once you allow a disconnected intercity bus terminal to be built, blocks away from the side of any train, connectivity is gone. What purpose is a Transportation Center if it is not to make a trip from New York to Gainesville palatable? Amtrak to Jacksonville and Greyhound to Gainesville. Once you insert 'Gator City Taxi' between the two, you no longer have a transportation center.

Greyhound's Jacksonville ridership is around 3,200,000 annually, Amtrak is a lightweight by comparison.

I'm going to say this with every ounce of my transit pundit heart and soul, BUILD THIS STATION AND THE JRTC COLLAPSES FROM AN INTERCITY TRANSFER HUB, TO A GOOD PLACE TO CATCH A BUS TO HEMMING PLAZA!

Mayor Brown? KILL THIS PROJECT. Consolidate the entire station into the old railroad terminal, the JRTC should be the surface hub of a 4 state region somewhat larger then LaVilla.

OCKLAWAHA

Are people really coming to Jacksonville from New York via Amtrak?

I've traveled from NYC to JAX twice in the past 45 days and flew both times.

I hate flying. I sit there clinging to the arm rests, with white knuckles, and grit teeth. It is one of the worst experiences in my life.

Since relocating to Jacksonville everytime I wanted to go back to NY I tried to get Amtrak tickets, and they were often 2 or 3 times the cost of my airline tickets.

Am I doing something wrong? I just don't see many people taking the train down if they can fly for half the price and 1/10th the time.

Quote from: stephendare on August 07, 2012, 09:28:26 PM

Quote from: BigGuy219 on August 07, 2012, 09:23:34 PM

Quote from: Ocklawaha on August 01, 2012, 08:05:13 PM

Quote from: tufsu1 on August 01, 2012, 08:59:33 AM
^ the problem with that theory is a vast majority of people in Jacksonville probably see no need for the JRTC or transit at all.

as for the Greyhound Station, Mr. Blaylock told me last week that Greyhound really wants to be on Adams St..so they can get right onto I-95 NB....of course, never mind that being on Forsyth St would give them direct access from I-95 NB

I anticipated that someone would jump on the 'Greyhound really wants to be...' line of reasoning via FDOT/JTA. REALLY? I'm an old Jacksonville intercity bus supervisor and spoke with the president and CEO of GLI. He told me in no uncertain terms that GREYHOUND IS NOT DRIVING THIS THING, FDOT AND JTA ARE.

Tacachale, something EVERY citizen of Jacksonville should know is once you allow a disconnected intercity bus terminal to be built, blocks away from the side of any train, connectivity is gone. What purpose is a Transportation Center if it is not to make a trip from New York to Gainesville palatable? Amtrak to Jacksonville and Greyhound to Gainesville. Once you insert 'Gator City Taxi' between the two, you no longer have a transportation center.

Greyhound's Jacksonville ridership is around 3,200,000 annually, Amtrak is a lightweight by comparison.

I'm going to say this with every ounce of my transit pundit heart and soul, BUILD THIS STATION AND THE JRTC COLLAPSES FROM AN INTERCITY TRANSFER HUB, TO A GOOD PLACE TO CATCH A BUS TO HEMMING PLAZA!

Mayor Brown? KILL THIS PROJECT. Consolidate the entire station into the old railroad terminal, the JRTC should be the surface hub of a 4 state region somewhat larger then LaVilla.

OCKLAWAHA

Are people really coming to Jacksonville from New York via Amtrak?

I've traveled from NYC to JAX twice in the past 45 days and flew both times.

I hate flying. I sit there clinging to the arm rests, with white knuckles, and grit teeth. It is one of the worst experiences in my life.

Since relocating to Jacksonville everytime I wanted to go back to NY I tried to get Amtrak tickets, and they were often 2 or 3 times the cost of my airline tickets.

Am I doing something wrong? I just don't see many people taking the train down if they can fly for half the price and 1/10th the time.

hmm.  I just checked tickets and from nyp (Penn Station, NYC) to Jax is 125 round trip, leaving on my birthday, september 28. 

Are plane tickets really only 32 dollars each way from NYC?

Stephen I just checked on Amtrak for this Friday and got quoted $426 roundtrip (which was twice my last roundtrip airfare gotten through Priceline).

If I'm doing something wrong or if there's a train discount site, I'd really like to know, because I genuinely hate flying ... but $416 is too much.

Jetblue roundtrip for the weekend of Sep 28th is 50 bucks less than Amtrak.

To me, this is even more disturbing.

TRAIN
Friday, August 10
JAX to NYP ... $213; 20 hr, 35 min
Source: Amtrak.com

BUS
Friday, August 10
Jacksonville Express to New York Express ... $95 (advanced purchase); 19 h, 48 minutes
Source: Greyhound.com

So the bus is faster then the train now?

Quote from: stephendare on August 07, 2012, 09:49:37 PM
strange, but when I just searched on Jetblue, they were 100 bucks each way, plus tax and airport fees.  the total price for round trip was 260 something.

On Amtrak, the round trip price was a flat 125.  So flying is 135 dollars more round trip than amtrak.

Jetblue, round trip JFK-JAX leaving 28 SEP returning 1 OCT.

Fare:
$178.00 x 1 = $178.00
Taxes & Fees
$21.60
Total:
$199.60

Amtrak, same thing:


Friday, September 28, 2012
91 Silver Star  (NYP  -  JAX)

Depart: 11:02 am, Fri, Sep 28, 2012
Arrive: 6:55 am, Sat, Sep 29, 2012
Duration: 19 hr, 53 min
Amenities
1 Adult
$125.00

1 Reserved Coach Seat


Subtotal   $125.00

Monday, October 1, 2012
98 Silver Meteor  (JAX  -  NYP)

Depart: 5:08 pm, Mon, Oct 1, 2012
Arrive: 11:06 am, Tue, Oct 2, 2012
Duration: 17 hr, 58 min
Amenities
1 Adult
$125.00

1 Reserved Coach Seat


Subtotal   $125.00

Total $250.00

Quote from: stephendare on August 07, 2012, 09:56:28 PM

Quote from: BigGuy219 on August 07, 2012, 09:51:19 PM
To me, this is even more disturbing.

TRAIN
Friday, August 10
JAX to NYP ... $213; 20 hr, 35 min
Source: Amtrak.com

BUS
Friday, August 10
Jacksonville Express to New York Express ... $95 (advanced purchase); 19 h, 48 minutes
Source: Greyhound.com

So the bus is faster then the train now?

you should travel by bus!  Problem solved!  you save 20 minutes!

And $125ish!

You may be on to something.

In April I took Greyhound from Jacksonville to Miami and it was very pleasurable. Comfortable seats. Phone chargers. Food stops. Highly recommended.

I got a promotional rate and I believe my ticket was $10!

Quote from: stephendare on August 07, 2012, 10:02:45 PM

Quote from: BigGuy219 on August 07, 2012, 09:59:15 PM

Quote from: stephendare on August 07, 2012, 09:56:28 PM

Quote from: BigGuy219 on August 07, 2012, 09:51:19 PM
To me, this is even more disturbing.

TRAIN
Friday, August 10
JAX to NYP ... $213; 20 hr, 35 min
Source: Amtrak.com

BUS
Friday, August 10
Jacksonville Express to New York Express ... $95 (advanced purchase); 19 h, 48 minutes
Source: Greyhound.com

So the bus is faster then the train now?

you should travel by bus!  Problem solved!  you save 20 minutes!

And $125ish!

You may be on to something.

In April I took Greyhound from Jacksonville to Miami and it was very pleasurable. Comfortable seats. Phone chargers. Food stops. Highly recommended.

I got a promotional rate and I believe my ticket was $10!

I will never willingly ride greyhound bus again in my life.  Some people don't seem to mind it, but I hated it. Crowded, uncomfortable seats, no way to walk around, and most of the customers seemed to be just released prisoners when I was going west.

Now the Green Tortoise Line was a different matter altogether.  http://www.greentortoise.com/adventure.travel.html

Stephen, have you tried it since they rebranded their image with the 'Express' service and improved busses?

It's worth a second look!

Quote from: stephendare on August 07, 2012, 10:02:45 PM
I will never willingly ride greyhound bus again in my life.  Some people don't seem to mind it, but I hated it. Crowded, uncomfortable seats, no way to walk around, and most of the customers seemed to be just released prisoners when I was going west.

This! This! A THOUSAND TIMES THIS!!!

Train vs. Plane going to NYC:

Keep in mind that all three major airports in the NYC region are not that close to the city, and it will cost you in both time and coin to travel between them and Manhattan. The train on the other hand will drop you off right into the heart of midtown.  Plus you can carry as much luggage as you want onto the train, and you don't have to arrive extra early to go through security.  Something to consider.

^^Hopefully one day the train will drop passengers off in the heart (or perhaps bowels) of downtown here, too.

We the people still don't get it. Train travel shines in the 200-400 mile markets, ergo one doesn't ride the train to New York, they ride to Savannah, Orlando, Tampa, Charleston, Fayetteville, Raleigh etc. Those trips ARE served by a minuscule Miami-JAX-New York fleet of Amtrak trains.

So yes one CAN ride from JAX to New York, or from NYC to Miami, and if one knows how to travel (the true meaning of the word is to sojourn) it can be a very pleasurable experience. The song no longer applies... Harry would be proud.


GREYHOUND LYRICS
The Late Great Harry Chapin

It's midnight at the depot
And I drag my bags in line.
Travellin' light, I got to go
But the bus won't be on time.
Everybody's looking half alive.
Later on the bus arrives.

They punch my ticket
I find a seat
And we move out past the lights.
Come on Driver, where's the heat?
It's cold out in the night.
I keep telling to myself that I don't care.
Come tomorrow, I'll be there.

Take the Greyhound.
It's a dog of a way to get around.
Take the Greyhound.
It's a dog gone easy way to get you down.

Frankly I find the bus and the train quite nice, and yes BIG GUY, the new PREVOST motor coaches are heads and shoulders above any other coach manufacturer. PREVOST CAR has long been the primo brand in the industry, and they know how to make passengers happy. Greyhound took a huge step when it abandoned it's own former subsidiary MCI (Motor Coach Industries) for a massive PREVOST CAR order. PREVOST merged with Volvo, a long time EU coach manufacturer just a couple of years back.

Quote from: Ocklawaha on August 12, 2012, 12:15:24 AM
We the people still don't get it. Train travel shines in the 200-400 mile markets, ergo one doesn't ride the train to New York, they ride to Savannah, Orlando, Tampa, Charleston, Fayetteville, Raleigh etc. Those trips ARE served by a minuscule Miami-JAX-New York fleet of Amtrak trains.

So yes one CAN ride from JAX to New York, or from NYC to Miami, and if one knows how to travel (the true meaning of the word is to sojourn) it can be a very pleasurable experience. The song no longer applies... Harry would be proud.


GREYHOUND LYRICS
The Late Great Harry Chapin

It's midnight at the depot
And I drag my bags in line.
Travellin' light, I got to go
But the bus won't be on time.
Everybody's looking half alive.
Later on the bus arrives.

They punch my ticket
I find a seat
And we move out past the lights.
Come on Driver, where's the heat?
It's cold out in the night.
I keep telling to myself that I don't care.
Come tomorrow, I'll be there.

Take the Greyhound.
It's a dog of a way to get around.
Take the Greyhound.
It's a dog gone easy way to get you down.

Frankly I find the bus and the train quite nice, and yes BIG GUY, the new PREVOST motor coaches are heads and shoulders above any other coach manufacturer. PREVOST CAR has long been the primo brand in the industry, and they know how to make passengers happy. Greyhound took a huge step when it abandoned it's own former subsidiary MCI (Motor Coach Industries) for a massive PREVOST CAR order. PREVOST merged with Volvo, a long time EU coach manufacturer just a couple of years back.

(http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1063/4733181311_8506e83422_z.jpg)

(http://www.ttmg.org/photos/tlogan/Greyhound_Prevost_H345-Interior.jpg)
The Prevost H345, is not your fathers bus!

It does look nice, Ock. Personally I'd like to see a Greyhound with these features on a Senicruiser. :)

Quote from: JFman00 on August 07, 2012, 09:58:00 PM

Quote from: stephendare on August 07, 2012, 09:49:37 PM
strange, but when I just searched on Jetblue, they were 100 bucks each way, plus tax and airport fees.  the total price for round trip was 260 something.

On Amtrak, the round trip price was a flat 125.  So flying is 135 dollars more round trip than amtrak.

Jetblue, round trip JFK-JAX leaving 28 SEP returning 1 OCT.

Fare:
$178.00 x 1 = $178.00
Taxes & Fees
$21.60
Total:
$199.60

Amtrak, same thing:


Friday, September 28, 2012
91 Silver Star  (NYP  -  JAX)

Depart: 11:02 am, Fri, Sep 28, 2012
Arrive: 6:55 am, Sat, Sep 29, 2012
Duration: 19 hr, 53 min
Amenities
1 Adult
$125.00

1 Reserved Coach Seat


Subtotal   $125.00

Monday, October 1, 2012
98 Silver Meteor  (JAX  -  NYP)

Depart: 5:08 pm, Mon, Oct 1, 2012
Arrive: 11:06 am, Tue, Oct 2, 2012
Duration: 17 hr, 58 min
Amenities
1 Adult
$125.00

1 Reserved Coach Seat


Subtotal   $125.00

Total $250.00

20 hours?!?  In a coach seat???   Vs a two hour flight that costs less?   Seriously?  20 hours in a coach seat?  Without even getting into the value of my time, please someone help me understand why anybody (other than someone terrified of flying or a Train Fetishist) would ever do that.  TWENTY HOURS IN A SEAT. 

I would. However, I can't stand flying AND I have a train FETISH - not Fetishist ;)

My dream 3some: ACL 1504, C&O 614, & me buried underneath em! :o

Pinky, you do realize that you can get out of your seat and walk to the bar on the train, right?

Rocking side to side, drinking whiskey, 2 hours of drinking 18 hours of enjoying every inch of that seat in coach. 

Quote from: Pinky on August 13, 2012, 08:14:42 PM
20 hours?!?  In a coach seat???   Vs a two hour flight that costs less?   Seriously?  20 hours in a coach seat?  Without even getting into the value of my time, please someone help me understand why anybody (other than someone terrified of flying or a Train Fetishist) would ever do that.  TWENTY HOURS IN A SEAT. 

From Jax to NYC is over 900 miles.  You're better off catching a flight at that distance.  Intercity rail travel typically is the better option for trips under 400 miles or to cities that don't have major airports.  For example, there's 120 miles between Los Angeles and San Diego.  Traffic on I-5 is a bitch and in both cities you'll be paying a daily parking fee to park your car if you drive.  However, both have pretty good local mass transit options now.

QuoteFriday, August 31, 2012
562 Pacific Surfliner  (LAX  -  SAN)

Depart: 6:15 am, Fri, Aug 31, 2012
Arrive: 8:57 am, Fri, Aug 31, 2012
Duration: 2 hr, 42 min
Amenities
1 Adult
$45.00

1 Unreserved Coach Seat

Subtotal   $45.00

Sunday, September 2, 2012
763 Pacific Surfliner  (SAN  -  LAX)

Depart: 6:05 am, Sun, Sep 2, 2012
Arrive: 8:50 am, Sun, Sep 2, 2012
Duration: 2 hr, 45 min
Amenities
1 Adult
$45.00

1 Unreserved Coach Seat

Subtotal   $45.00

Total $90.00

QuoteLeave Fri, Aug 31 Total time: 0hr 52min
Depart
4:20 PM
Los Angeles, CA , United States
Los Angeles Airport, El Segundo (LAX) Terminal 8
Arrive
5:12 PM
San Diego, CA , United States
San Diego Airport (SAN) Terminal R
Flight 6338 Operated by /SKYWEST DBA UNITED EXPRESS

United Airlines 6338
Economy On-time performance: 80% Embraer 120 Brasilia Turboprop
98 mi 0hr 52minSeat map
Return Sun, Sep 2 Total time: 0hr 47min
Depart
4:26 PM
San Diego, CA , United States
San Diego Airport (SAN) Terminal R
Arrive
5:13 PM
Los Angeles, CA , United States
Los Angeles Airport, El Segundo (LAX) Terminal 8
Flight 6335 Operated by /SKYWEST DBA UNITED EXPRESS

United Airlines 6335
Economy On-time performance: 70% Embraer 120 Brasilia Turboprop
98 mi 0hr 47minSeat map

Your current trip cost
Flight
Adult: 1
$267.00
Airfare taxes and fees
$21.60
Total due at booking
$288.60

A roundtrip adult ticket on the train costs $90 and it will take 2hours 42 minutes.  A roundtrip flight will run you $288.60 and take 47 minutes by air.  However, you'll need to be at the airport at least 1.5 hours early and you'll get fleeced with the daily rate of parking your car, if someone doesn't drop you off.  Btw, did I mention that the train drops you off in the heart of both cities?

Quote from: BackinJax05 on August 13, 2012, 11:55:28 PM
I would. However, I can't stand flying AND I have a train FETISH - not Fetishist ;)

My dream 3some: ACL 1504, C&O 614, & me buried underneath em! :o

Having a Train Fetish makes you a FETISHIST.  Look it up before you "correct" me, ok?

Quote from: BigGuy219 on August 07, 2012, 09:23:34 PM
Am I doing something wrong? I just don't see many people taking the train down if they can fly for half the price and 1/10th the time.

Yes, you are using Amtrak wrong. You can use the airlines incorrectly in a similar way.


Jacksonville to Charleston

Air:
Leave Jacksonville JAX
Tue, Aug 28 5:00 PM

Arrive Charleston CHS
11:30 PM 2 stops
Duration: 6hr 30min

Roundtrip fare: $557.49


Amtrak
Depart: 5:08 pm, Tue, Aug 28, 2012
Arrive: 9:23 pm, Tue, Aug 28, 2012
Duration: 4 hr, 15 min

Roundtrip fare: $109.00

Ah the beauty of surface transportation, you can pick and choose what you want to see. As for myself, I really don't care if it's 2 hours or 20 hours. Following the advice of Non-RedNeck Westsider, a meal, after dinner drinks, my own bedroom, and I come away with more memories then seeing the other side of a cumulous cloud. Riding the train or the bus is often like seeing America with it's pants down, you see EVERYTHING. It's an education in a passing window view.

Lol, Ock, I know you're the exception to the rule.  However, for most people, if you have five to seven days of vacation to play around with, you don't want to spend 40 hours of it in commute.

Quote from: Ocklawaha on August 14, 2012, 02:13:11 PM
Ah the beauty of surface transportation, you can pick and choose what you want to see. As for myself, I really don't care if it's 2 hours or 20 hours. Following the advice of Non-RedNeck Westsider, a meal, after dinner drinks, my own bedroom, and I come away with more memories then seeing the other side of a cumulous cloud. Riding the train or the bus is often like seeing America with it's pants down, you see EVERYTHING. It's an education in a passing window view.

Ohhhhh Uncle Ockie! I really appreciate your words and all the funny and playful [sexual] stuff in it. I would love to see America with her pants down as I choo-choo along the tracks.

Never again... never... will I think the same about riding a train.

-Josh