In what is perhaps a stellar example of the new trend in coming out quietly, Sally Ride, the first American woman to rocket into outer space, came out as a lesbian in her obituary, a day after her tragic death due to pancreatic cancer.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michelangelo-signorile/sally-ride-american-hero_b_1697871.html
I respect her immensely as an American pioneer in space, but I respect her even more now because she kept to herself what was no one's business but her own.
Way to go Sally Ride.
That's called "class". Her brilliance was first and foremost in the public eye, not her sexuality. Bravo for her not allowing society to boil her down to her essence and plaster it all over the front pages. Elegant manners means keeping some things to yourself, that people don't need to know. I favor a return to that for everyone. Even if you can't stand someone for whatever reason, you just smile and nod graciously, (pretend you're Jackie Kennedy) until they leave. Besides, it was a lot more fun sneaking around with gays before they came out of the closet; now it's become another political platform and they want to be all out there, loud and proud. They're all angry and aggressive now instead of fun and secretive. It used to just gall my female peers in high school when I would get secretive winks from a cute, tall guy they all had a crush on - because I knew he was gay and they didn't - they were so jealous and mean to me, but I didn't care. WE had a secret!! Same thing at work a few years later - the most gorgeous hunk at the company would drop names of gay bars, and I dropped some back at him. Instant friendship! Instant jealous females! Sneaking around to discos! Those were very fun days, and no one seemed angry or upset or wanting rights. Sorry for the tangent, it was just a different, wonderful world back then. May Sally always orbit the earth whenever she feels like it - I'm sure that was her Heaven.
Curious if ya'll think the straight male astronauts should keep their wives hidden away as "nobody's business" and if you consider them "classless" when their wives attend a function with them.
Wow! That has to be the best, shortest, most complete rebuttal of an opinion ever written on this forum. Well done, Fineone!
I'm sorry, but somebody named Sally Ride should have been straight.
I'm sorry, I had mistaken this for a forum where everyone was welcomed. My experiences are different from a lot of yours, but I don't think that's a reason to keep handing me my ass on a silver platter every time I dare to join in. Is some sort of degree or background experience now a requirement to participate? The same way I can't speak for you because I haven't walked in your shoes, neither can you speak for me because you haven't walked in my shoes. But I would never treat you so viciously for not having done so. I leave the viciousness to you, as you have certainly mastered it. See ya.
Sandy Shoes, I am sorry that you feel beat up on. I have to say that I was very angry when I read your post and purposely didn't repond because of that anger so I waited a few hours.
I find it hard to accept that you would want people to stay in the closet because it was more fun for you. You didn't sound like you had any ill feelings toward gay people but seemed pretty apathetic towards our human rights. This is exactly why we are fighting to get some degree of equal protection and equal rights in Jacksonville, in Florida, and in the US. Not only are there bigoted and repressive people fighting against us, there are people who are tired of hearing about it. Don't you think we are tired of trying to get civil rights?
So Sally Ride was a lesbian - should it make a difference? Not in a better world, which I hope that we are moving towards.
Quote from: finehoe on July 25, 2012, 09:13:36 AM
Curious if ya'll think the straight male astronauts should keep their wives hidden away as "nobody's business" and if you consider them "classless" when their wives attend a function with them.
Yeah, can you believe that drama monger Robert L. Gibson (http://www.nasa.gov/externalflash/the_shuttle/117.html) shoving his wife Dr. Margaret Rhea Seddon (http://www.nasa.gov/externalflash/the_shuttle/284.html) down everyone's throats?
Quote from: fsquid on July 25, 2012, 09:57:50 AM
I'm sorry, but somebody named Sally Ride should have been straight.
http://www.youtube.com/v/fsjFi4KkOZc?
Quote from: sandyshoes on July 25, 2012, 11:33:42 AM
I'm sorry, I had mistaken this for a forum where everyone was welcomed. My experiences are different from a lot of yours, but I don't think that's a reason to keep handing me my ass on a silver platter every time I dare to join in. Is some sort of degree or background experience now a requirement to participate? The same way I can't speak for you because I haven't walked in your shoes, neither can you speak for me because you haven't walked in my shoes. But I would never treat you so viciously for not having done so. I leave the viciousness to you, as you have certainly mastered it. See ya.
I don't think Stephen was being vicious, nor the other posters who also had a problem with your post. I think the issue is that your post came across as homophobic. The issue people have with the post is that you're applying standards to homosexuality that aren't applied to heterosexuality, and the discrepancy is what we call discrimination. It's really rather simple. If your post wasn't meant that way, just clarify, and I think you'll be fine.
Sandy,
You are more than welcome to hang out and share your thoughts with us. I understand where you are coming from, and other posters (majority) have no intention to disrespect or upset you with their responses.
I think your article just need a little more clarification. More people respect you if you admit or clarify further more on the topic you are trying to express as your own opinion.
Best,
Josh
Miss Ride couldn't even have received security clearance until 1996 and effectively even longer than that if she had come out. I like when people want to take a stand but some straight and gay people like to keep private life private and that is fine.
Quote from: JeffreyS on July 25, 2012, 05:42:06 PM
Miss Ride couldn't even have received security clearance until 1996 and effectively even longer than that if she had come out.
And even today Dr. Ride's partner will receive NONE of the federal death benefits available to married heterosexual couples.
Quote from: JeffreyS on July 25, 2012, 05:42:06 PM
Miss Ride couldn't even have received security clearance until 1996 and effectively even longer than that if she had come out. I like when people want to take a stand but some straight and gay people like to keep private life private and that is fine.
Well then it's not her choice is it? If the reason she made that choice was because, if she didn't, she'd have less opportunity for advancement than her heterosexual peers, then you've kind of shot your own argument on that one, haven't you? Textbook example of discrimination there.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on July 25, 2012, 06:27:52 PM
Quote from: JeffreyS on July 25, 2012, 05:42:06 PM
Miss Ride couldn't even have received security clearance until 1996 and effectively even longer than that if she had come out. I like when people want to take a stand but some straight and gay people like to keep private life private and that is fine.
Well then it's not her choice is it? If the reason she made that choice was because, if she didn't, she'd have less opportunity for advancement than her heterosexual peers, then you've kind of shot your own argument on that one, haven't you? Textbook example of discrimination there.
I guess both could exist at the same time. You may be personally very private and professionally at the risk of being discriminated against.
^ I do not know Miss ride and am just saying she doesn't deserve criticism over her choices. Especially given the fact that she is no longer here to defend her choices.
Quote from: JeffreyS on July 25, 2012, 05:42:06 PM
Miss Ride couldn't even have received security clearance until 1996 and effectively even longer than that if she had come out. I like when people want to take a stand but some straight and gay people like to keep private life private and that is fine.
I was just responding to your post.
What I don't understand is how we're reaching different conclusions. This is the very type of discrimination which is unacceptable in a free society. You're entirely correct, in that she wouldn't have advanced to where she did if she didn't hide her sexuality, which unfortunately is something that had nothing whatsoever to do with her job fitness or performance. Why care about hiding it or not hiding it? It shouldn't have had anything to do with the situation at all. You may as well say no Catholics can board the space shuttle.
I question whether you can really commend her for hiding her personal life, when that choice should never have had anything to do with her potential for advancement. Ethically, it appears to me that we should condemn the discriminatory behavior that make such things necessary, not line up to congratulate her for how well she hid it.
I agree her decision isn't cause for congratulations I just don't take issue with it.
^No one else in this discussion takes issue with her keeping quiet, we're critical of the situation that meant she had to keep quiet for much of her life.
Guys,
I think we should throw in the towel on this topic. It is NONE of our business to talk about Sally Ride and her private life. Can we all just respect that considering that she is no longer with us, but watching the Universe in the heavens?
Thanks,
Josh
Quote from: Tacachale on July 26, 2012, 09:08:58 AM
...we're critical of the situation that meant she had to keep quiet for much of her life.
And those who think that being forced to stay in the closet in order to have the career she wanted wasn't an outrage, but a reflection of her good taste and high standards.
Quote from: wsansewjs on July 26, 2012, 09:15:07 AM
Guys,
I think we should throw in the towel on this topic. It is NONE of our business to talk about Sally Ride and her private life. Can we all just respect that considering that she is no longer with us, but watching the Universe in the heavens?
Thanks,
Josh
Yes, can't you queers just stay in the closet so nobody has to think about it?
Quote from: finehoe on July 26, 2012, 09:17:49 AM
Quote from: wsansewjs on July 26, 2012, 09:15:07 AM
Guys,
I think we should throw in the towel on this topic. It is NONE of our business to talk about Sally Ride and her private life. Can we all just respect that considering that she is no longer with us, but watching the Universe in the heavens?
Thanks,
Josh
Yes, can't you queers just stay in the closet so nobody has to think about it?
Come on, Finehoe, I was just saying that because this thread is getting stretched little too far. It's like beating the dead horse repeatedly.
-Josh
Quote from: stephendare on July 26, 2012, 09:28:28 AM
Quote from: wsansewjs on July 26, 2012, 09:22:58 AM
Quote from: finehoe on July 26, 2012, 09:17:49 AM
Quote from: wsansewjs on July 26, 2012, 09:15:07 AM
Guys,
I think we should throw in the towel on this topic. It is NONE of our business to talk about Sally Ride and her private life. Can we all just respect that considering that she is no longer with us, but watching the Universe in the heavens?
Thanks,
Josh
Yes, can't you queers just stay in the closet so nobody has to think about it?
Come on, Finehoe, I was just saying that because this thread is getting stretched little too far. It's like beating the dead horse repeatedly.
-Josh
not your place to decide that josh. And if the thread is continuing, then obviously people want to talk about it, and therefore they will.
It's a wishful thinking, not a demand.
-Josh
Quote from: sandyshoes on July 25, 2012, 07:55:26 AM
That's called "class". Her brilliance was first and foremost in the public eye, not her sexuality. Bravo for her not allowing society to boil her down to her essence and plaster it all over the front pages. Elegant manners means keeping some things to yourself, that people don't need to know. I favor a return to that for everyone. Even if you can't stand someone for whatever reason, you just smile and nod graciously, (pretend you're Jackie Kennedy) until they leave. Besides, it was a lot more fun sneaking around with gays before they came out of the closet; now it's become another political platform and they want to be all out there, loud and proud. They're all angry and aggressive now instead of fun and secretive. It used to just gall my female peers in high school when I would get secretive winks from a cute, tall guy they all had a crush on - because I knew he was gay and they didn't - they were so jealous and mean to me, but I didn't care. WE had a secret!! Same thing at work a few years later - the most gorgeous hunk at the company would drop names of gay bars, and I dropped some back at him. Instant friendship! Instant jealous females! Sneaking around to discos! Those were very fun days, and no one seemed angry or upset or wanting rights. Sorry for the tangent, it was just a different, wonderful world back then. May Sally always orbit the earth whenever she feels like it - I'm sure that was her Heaven.
What the H-E double hockey stick are you talking about, Sandra Dee? We should go back to someone's sexuality being a secret? Why? Because "it's like so much, like, fun to, like, know something that no one else knows! Like...oh my god!" lol that sounds like a juvenile logic. Shall we go back to slavery? Shall we go back to segregation? The holocaust? Gays should be as open as they want to be.
"no one seemed angry or upset or wanting rights"
So people should not want rights??????? Are you crazy? You might as well say no one should want respect or dignity?
You're crazy
Quote from: sandyshoes on July 25, 2012, 11:33:42 AM
I'm sorry, I had mistaken this for a forum where everyone was welcomed. My experiences are different from a lot of yours, but I don't think that's a reason to keep handing me my ass on a silver platter every time I dare to join in. Is some sort of degree or background experience now a requirement to participate? The same way I can't speak for you because I haven't walked in your shoes, neither can you speak for me because you haven't walked in my shoes. But I would never treat you so viciously for not having done so. I leave the viciousness to you, as you have certainly mastered it. See ya.
When you show your ass, it will get handed to you unfortunately.
^I think Sandy is just making the error, certainly not unheard of among straight women with gay male friends, in thinking about their relationship only in terms of what they get out of it.
In this mode of thinking, a gay associate is their ticket to a secret world of great parties, nightclubs and knowing winks. This world is risque without being threatening to them, and is all the better in that from their perspective, it recesses to the shadows the moment they stop thinking about it. And the people who bring them there aren't supposed to worry about the banalities of human existence; they're not supposed to get "angry" or "upset" or "wanting rights". It's all about fun.
I would encourage Sandy to look beyond the wonderful times she had, and really think about what it means to be in a situation where public expression of your life as God made you is as restricted as you describe.
Suggested ways to open the debate beyond the issue of a person being closeted for the sake of a career: Is it justified that you could lose your job because of your sexuality or gender identity? Should state's rights always trump federal law?