The editorial board at the Business Journal should be ashamed....I'm not sure that a downtown marketing campaign is the best use of limited funds, but to imply that downtown has nothing to market.....abysmal!
QuoteJacksonville now has an umbrella organization to market Downtown to Jacksonville residents. The idea is simple: More people would come Downtown to shop and eat and spend their leisure time if they knew of all the great things happening Downtown.
There are people who believe that marketing can solve just about any problem. We are not among those people. We think marketing works best when you have something to market.
Otherwise, in the case of Downtown Jacksonville, you can entice people to come Downtown with a good marketing campaign, but if there’s little for them to do once they arrive, ...
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/print-edition/2012/07/13/opinion-selling-downtown.html
wow. that is shameful. I may just cancel my subscription. Maybe there is something we are missing in the piece?
sadly no...I only copied the first part here, but I read the whole thing in my hard copy
I plan on posting something on their facebook page.
After reading the entire OpEd piece I don't think it was that far off the mark. I used to work downtown 2 years ago I don't really have a reason to visit downtown in my leisure time and marketing isn't going to make me want to visit the place. They do need stuff downtown that will make people want to go there and right now that just doesn't exist.
You aren't going to get people to come downtown by marketing the same old things that haven't worked yet and trying to repackage that isn't going to work.
Quote from: fsujax on July 13, 2012, 03:13:52 PM
wow. that is shameful. I may just cancel my subscription. Maybe there is something we are missing in the piece?
Cancel your subscription? Extreme measures. I share your angst, but it is an OpEd after all, not an endorsement by the journal itself. Moreover, while we like it or not, whether we agree or not, the opinion expressed in that OpEd is the opinion of probably 500,000 plus people in Duval County...I happen to disagree w/ the article, but I also happen to agree that we need more "stuff" and "things to do" downtown. Our downtown is more a civil center (jail, courthouse, bail bonds, states attorney, PDs office, business) than a beacon of entertainment and culture. We can't keep reverting to the same old "there's bars" and "the landing has some great new stores" and "downtown is on the rise." I love downtown, but outside of my once a day Chamblin's Uptown trip, I'm at a loss for reasons to keep going down there.
Although I have not read the Jax Biz Journal editorial, count me in the camp of believing that marketing downtown to suburbanites won't amount to much. Too often we focus on blowing hot air instead of addressing reality and getting our hands dirty to change it. Have we really asked ourselves what we even want to be? What are the overall goals and vision and are we making sure that every little thing we do pushes us closer to meeting those objectives?
I'd say take that $300k and use it to keep the public ROW/parks clean and well maintained, program a few public spaces or incentivize a few small businesses to open in key locations to help stimulate walkability and connectivity.
Without spending cash, spend the time to revisit and modify the restrictive ordinances limiting small business and residential opportunities in downtown and the surrounding core. In fact, consider tax abatements if that's what it takes to level the playing field. Instead of raising money for more hot air, use that time and influence to push COJ to do something with all the dead property its been sitting on for years.
Without spending cash, make sure all of our governmental agencies with projects impacting downtown are properly coordinating with one another. Such a concept will save taxpayers money, improve several agency's image and reduce the possibility of projects like downtown BRT coming online without proper bike facilities, despite them clearly being identified in a publicly accessible plan already adopted by the council and approved by the state.
Doing little things like these, in combination with the national trend of revitalizing urban cores, will naturally create all the marketing buzz people desire. The key here is to recognize that things occur incrementally and learning to walk before attempting to do cart wheels.
+1
Words of informed wisdom from Lake as usual.
Can someone post the entire op-ed? It wants me to subscribe to see the whole thing.
It isnt an op-ed....it is the paper's official editorial....much different thing!
And my issue with the editorial is that it implies there is nothing to do downtown....so lets see...
20 nightlife spots. MOCA. Fl theatre. TUPAC. Arena. Baseball stadium, football, riverwalk, library, etc.
^The same group that praised that 1960s Soviet Cold War era concrete plaza, anchored with Seattle's Space Needle, a few weeks back?
Quote from: stephendare on July 13, 2012, 07:36:40 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on July 13, 2012, 07:21:00 PM
And my issue with the editorial is that it implies there is nothing to do downtown....so lets see...
20 nightlife spots. MOCA. Fl theatre. TUPAC. Arena. Baseball stadium, football, riverwalk, library, etc.
most of which are barely programmed at all, situated in a spartan environment that doesn't have any daily life or traffic or interaction on the streets. The businesses are mostly gone, there isn't any retail and assmonkeys keep trying to de amenities the few remaining public spaces that they haven't already completely shut down.
Im sorry, as much as I demonstrably love downtown, I happen to agree with the premise.
+1000
Quote from: stephendare on July 13, 2012, 07:36:40 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on July 13, 2012, 07:21:00 PM
And my issue with the editorial is that it implies there is nothing to do downtown....so lets see...
20 nightlife spots. MOCA. Fl theatre. TUPAC. Arena. Baseball stadium, football, riverwalk, library, etc.
most of which are barely programmed at all, situated in a spartan environment that doesn't have any daily life or traffic or interaction on the streets. The businesses are mostly gone, there isn't any retail and assmonkeys keep trying to de amenities the few remaining public spaces that they haven't already completely shut down.
Im sorry, as much as I demonstrably love downtown, I happen to agree with the premise.
True, you know 20+ years ago the southbank riverwalk was a place that people visited, there were vendors, restaurants, street performers, and other things to do. It wasn't uncommon to have trouble finding a place to park so you could visit the riverwalk on a Friday or Saturday night.
I haven’t read the article but from what I suspect it implies that we need more “good stuff†in the core before we promote that suburbanites visit it. To spend too much money on promotion for people to visit the city core now doesn’t make sense to me. To be blunt, anyone advising it would be a fool.
I’ve always advised small businesses for years to put money into the quality of their inventory and service, and to hell with advertising. You can advertise all you want, but if there is nothing of quality there when the customer arrives, it will be the last visit for that customer. Same dynamics for the city core. Get good quality inventory.... small businesses and entertainment, residents.... then the suburbanites will not only want to visit, they just might want to open a business, or live in the city core. Amazing thought.
Now if the promotional money is set for spending on enticing small businesses and residents to move into the core, then I can agree. Every single business entity we can settle into the core will make it that much easier to bring the next one in. It’s the same with residents. The more of anything we bring into the core, the easier it will be to bring the next in. Soon, there will be a threshold, after which we will not have to expend much energy or money to bring businesses in. They will come in by their own initiative simply because it makes business sense.
After the threshold gains strength, the residents will no longer have to be enticed to move into the core. They will come by their own desire.
In my view, anybody encouraging excessive spending on enticing suburbanites to visit the core at this time is off the mark. The money should be spent on “building†life into the city core, no matter what it takes, even enticing small businesses in via tax abatements and other incentives. The best energy and most effective results will be found in many small businesses, not in the grand projects which are the favorites of the big money and the big tax dollars… which often are failures because they are artificial, are superficial, and miss the real dynamics involved.
Not one dollar have I received from the city for my entire business history in the city core. I am due to receive, by the program initiated by DVI, the $10,000 grant for façade improvements once I spend the $20,000 for it. This is grand, and will be appreciated, but I could have used some assistance in the early stages by some form of tax abatement.
I’m already past the critical state of survival in the city core, but it would be great and quite effective in my view if the city offered in the future, to newly arriving small businesses a partial or full property tax abatement to assist in their gamble with the core so that they might survive the difficult first three or four years. After all, if the city is serious about enticing new small businesses into the core, the city powers should be willing to “share†in the gamble which exists as a small business attempts to endure the relatively low foot traffic downtown.
The almost non-existent foot traffic in the city core is not the fault of the small business owner attempting to make a go of it. It “is†mostly the fault of a city which, by stupid decisions over decades, has allowed the foot traffic to descend to a level which makes it almost impossible for a new business to survive.
And some wonder why nobody but a fool will gamble with opening a business in the city core. I have seen where many well intentioned individuals have tried, and they have lasted from six months to two years before closing, and after losing whatever funds they had in the venture.
The individuals who have the funds to be in business will not enter the city core because of their good sense. However, if the city chose these individuals, these successful businessmen and women, to offer tax and other incentives, they just might make decisions to enter the core. With each one entering, the threshold we seek will arrive, after which no incentives will be needed.
Then…. city powers…. and this might be somewhat difficult to comprehend I admit…. after the threshold is achieved as a consequence of reasonable incentives to small businesses willing to gamble with the low foot traffic in the city core….. guess what?… “THERE WILL BE VIBRANCY IN THE CORE, AND THERE WILL BE GREAT INCREASES IN THE PROPERTY TAXES COMING FROM THE CITY CORE."
Essentially: If you build it, they will come.
End of story
gee ben...you think they didn't say the same thing about the Landing 25 years ago?
never mind...I'll just ignore the MILLIONS of people that visit downtown every year....and then agree that there's nothing there to market....and if, like the editorial implies, Intuition Ale Works moved there, everything would be grand!
btw, Ron...I'm not saying I agree with the marketing effort....just that I vehemently disagree with the JBJ assertion that there is nothing downtown worth marketing.
The places that want to be downtown can't even get the city's attention.....
Intuition Ale Works is still looking for a second locationQuoteIntuition Ale Works isn’t getting any closer to finding a spot downtown, owner Ben Davis said.
A couple of weeks ago, a site plan surfaced for Intuition at the Shipyards, but Davis said that was really just an example of what he was looking for. Besides, he said, the city doesn’t appear interested in breaking up that land into smaller parcels.
So the Shipyards are out, he said, and he’s still looking for a building with high ceilings, truck access in and out on two or three acres.
What Davis needs is more room to brew more beer for distribution. That’s kegs for bars and cans for stores.
He’s said he’d like it to be downtown so he could include a taproom like he’s got on King Street.
“The other option,†he said, “is building a purely brewing operation and do all the canning and kegging there. Maybe on the Westside or up near the airport.â€
Time, he said, is getting critical.
“We have get more beer into cans and kegs, that’s the issue.â€
By the way, Intuition is donating $2 from every glass sold of Truck Stop Stout to the Alysha Miller Harris Baby Fund. Ben Harris was killed in an exploding keg accident at Red Hook Brewery in April and the fund goes to his wife and unborn child.
http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/428360/roger-bull/2012-07-13/intuition-ale-works-still-looking-second-location
Quote from: stephendare on July 13, 2012, 09:23:22 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on July 13, 2012, 09:07:03 PM
gee ben...you think they didn't say the same thing about the Landing 25 years ago?
never mind...I'll just ignore the MILLIONS of people that visit downtown every year....and then agree that there's nothing there to market....and if, like the editorial implies, Intuition Ale Works moved there, everything would be grand!
btw, Ron...I'm not saying I agree with the marketing effort....just that I vehemently disagree with the JBJ assertion that there is nothing downtown worth marketing.
Perhaps if there were wifi available all the way through downtown, little shops that could have stayed open if the parking enforcement hadn't been so egregious, and some incentives for a vibrant small business environment people would agree with you.
Anyplace, even an empty field can be busy for an event, TUFSU.
But if everything is usually closed, and there is nothing to do, then no amount of marketing can change that fact.
Perhaps this was something that should have been paid attention to a few years ago instead of pretending that Winn Dixie was a 'dining option'?
Overheard tonight as my wife and I were leaving the Landing:
"Man I've never seen this many people down here 'cept on New Years or the 4th!"
"Yeah I've lived here three or four years and nobody comes down here, ain't sh*t to do downtown."
And aside from the Landing, that guy wasn't far off the mark. I know the usual thing is to accuse anybody who says that of being wrong but the fact is, guys like him are all over town, and when they venture downtown after 5 PM, all there is to do is get plastered at the Landing while another cover band plays the same tired southern rock tunes.
This is Friday night and that's the best we got?
I don't particularly notice other cities "marketing" downtown. They just find ways to make their CBDs work, and then the private sector takes over the marketing.
TIF has been a big part of the success story of a downtown Nashville neighborhood called Sobro (South of Broadway).
The joint effort of the city and a slew of big name developers has resulted in land sales of $150-$200/ft ($6.5MM-$8.5MM/acre). The city has purchased land through eminent domain for the 1 million SF convention center, 800-room Omni Hotel, Country Music Hall of Fame expansion, and for the now famous Schermerhorn Symphony Center.
The private sector has boosted that momentum of very well thought out and planned public investment with large-scale private investment in the area in the form of new office, condos, apartments, warehouse expansions, retail, and hotels. Furthermore, lots of the large public projects like the convention center, symphony and Country Music Hall of Fame expansion benefit from a ton of private funding/donations.
The brokers and PR firms of these projects do all the "Sobro" marketing and they create the buzz. The largest office development in that area was constructed for about $300/SF and commands rents between $30-$35 for the city's most prestigious law firms. Condos are also selling for roughly $300/SF. This happens because the development partnerships hire brokers and marketing firms that do a very good job of selling the concept of "Sobro".
Jacksonville agencies should work to put together creative financing incentives for new development. The latest firm to move downtown (that MassMutual group) quoted the lower rents downtown as one reason for the move (and I bet it was a big reason). That's why development downtown can't happen naturally - rents are too low. The city needs to step in and inflate the feasibility for developers to come in. Tax abatements on various scales and in various means has seemed to work in every city that has used them.
I think it's difficult for the city to be "fair" and reward some current CBD investors (and not all) with incentives to fill their buildings. They made those investments with those inherent risks and vacancy already baked into the purchase price. If downtown becomes desirable, the older buildings will always be more marketable for most tenants as hardly any tenants beside the most prestigious law firms and I-banks can afford true class A rents.
Create stipulations that are uniform over an area and sunset in some particular way and reward "new" development. The developers will spend the money creating the buzz. It also helps if the city appropriately invests, as well (i.e. parks, streetscapes, looser regulations on signage/outdoor seating, etc).
Quote from: Bativac on July 13, 2012, 11:57:57 PM
Quote from: stephendare on July 13, 2012, 09:23:22 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on July 13, 2012, 09:07:03 PM
gee ben...you think they didn't say the same thing about the Landing 25 years ago?
never mind...I'll just ignore the MILLIONS of people that visit downtown every year....and then agree that there's nothing there to market....and if, like the editorial implies, Intuition Ale Works moved there, everything would be grand!
btw, Ron...I'm not saying I agree with the marketing effort....just that I vehemently disagree with the JBJ assertion that there is nothing downtown worth marketing.
Perhaps if there were wifi available all the way through downtown, little shops that could have stayed open if the parking enforcement hadn't been so egregious, and some incentives for a vibrant small business environment people would agree with you.
Anyplace, even an empty field can be busy for an event, TUFSU.
But if everything is usually closed, and there is nothing to do, then no amount of marketing can change that fact.
Perhaps this was something that should have been paid attention to a few years ago instead of pretending that Winn Dixie was a 'dining option'?
Overheard tonight as my wife and I were leaving the Landing:
"Man I've never seen this many people down here 'cept on New Years or the 4th!"
"Yeah I've lived here three or four years and nobody comes down here, ain't sh*t to do downtown."
And aside from the Landing, that guy wasn't far off the mark. I know the usual thing is to accuse anybody who says that of being wrong but the fact is, guys like him are all over town, and when they venture downtown after 5 PM, all there is to do is get plastered at the Landing while another cover band plays the same tired southern rock tunes.
This is Friday night and that's the best we got?
Seriously? You're friggin' clueless. 1904, Burro Bar, Phoenix Taproom, DG, LIT, Underbelly, Mark's, Dive Bar, TSI, Northstar. Plenty of places to get plastered.
And I'm probably leaving someone out. You want more? Move to NYC. This isn't NYC.
I think Bativac's point was not that he thinks the only thing to do downtown after 5 is drink at the Landing but the only thing to do downtown at all is drink. And sadly, that is true. There should be other things to do than drink/get plastered.
What are some bars, restaurants, clothing stores, etc that Jacksonville does not have anywhere in the entire city that other major cities have?? Things that attract many demographics not just the drinkers.
For example, Macy's or H&M (even though the Avenues is getting one). Macy's would bring women downtown in droves.
Without first addressing several other factors, Downtown will never see a department store like Macy's open up shop. Even SJTC is struggling to land additional anchors like Macy's. Quite simply, the demographics for such a major retailer in downtown aren't there at this time. We blew that when May-Cohens, Sears, Furchgott's, Levy-Wolf, JCPenney, and Ivey's pulled out in the 1980s. However, even then, they all were struggling on their last legs of dealing with gradual demographic and economic changes in the downtown core and city since the 1950s.
It's not the talk people want to here and it's definitely not sexy, but if we want to see downtown return, it will have to do so organically and incrementally. To get that process jump-started doesn't take much money or require marketing plans laced with cocaine, if the city modifies its restrictive policies to allow market rate private enterprise to blossom.
Quote from: RockStar on July 14, 2012, 01:19:59 AM
And I'm probably leaving someone out. You want more? Move to NYC. This isn't NYC.
Or let's find a way to get more vitality and life in downtown Jacksonville. Cities like NYC, San Francisco, Chicago, etc. are on different level then a second tier mid-sized community like Jax. However, with our weather, natural and historical assets, there's no reason we can't be just as vibrant as a place like San Antonio, TX, Columbus, OH, Savannah, GA or Greenville, SC?
Or downtown Asheville, NC. That place went from a ghost town of closed textile businesses to a thriving, vibrant mix of clubs, restaurants, galleries, antique shops, offices, condos, apts, etc. It took about twenty years of organic growth to do it, but there were pioneers and visionaries who made it happen.
Quote from: AshleyLauren on July 14, 2012, 02:27:50 AM
I think Bativac's point was not that he thinks the only thing to do downtown after 5 is drink at the Landing but the only thing to do downtown at all is drink. And sadly, that is true. There should be other things to do than drink/get plastered.
so there aren't any places to eat, catch a show, read a book, enjoy live music, see a game, or just people watch?
Quote from: tufsu1 on July 14, 2012, 09:33:22 AM
Quote from: AshleyLauren on July 14, 2012, 02:27:50 AM
I think Bativac's point was not that he thinks the only thing to do downtown after 5 is drink at the Landing but the only thing to do downtown at all is drink. And sadly, that is true. There should be other things to do than drink/get plastered.
so there aren't any places to eat, catch a show, read a book, enjoy live music, see a game, or just people watch?
Yes, Tufsu, we know there's the Winn-Dixie...
Quote from: tufsu1 on July 14, 2012, 09:33:22 AM
Quote from: AshleyLauren on July 14, 2012, 02:27:50 AM
I think Bativac's point was not that he thinks the only thing to do downtown after 5 is drink at the Landing but the only thing to do downtown at all is drink. And sadly, that is true. There should be other things to do than drink/get plastered.
so there aren't any places to eat, catch a show, read a book, enjoy live music, see a game, or just people watch?
I agree that there are things to do but there are things to do virtually anywhere. I think people tend to compare it to downtowns of other communities that they have lived in or visited, which influences their opinion on the subject. Quite frankly, when compared to most places, we're lacking despite the assets we're blessed with. I say that as to not knock downtown but acknowledge reality and encourage people to work to improve and build upon what we do have.
Lake, I didn't mean to belittle the idea or pretend to know what it takes to wake up downtown. I wasn't around for half of those places in the 80s so I asked from a sincere position. Twenty years is a long time for something to organically grow as Dog Walker pointed out. Do you think that is the type of time span we are looking at??
I agree with Stephen. I posted similarly a page or two up. The marketing and the pop downtown will be by private developers and firms with invested financial interest in the success of downtown, but we can't get to that point until the city makes it easier to invest downtown.
There are literally dozens of incentivizing tax treatments tried by other cities that have worked. This is in addition to common sense practices that the city hasn't figured out, despite merely having to copy nearly any other place in the country at this point. The mobility plan was great, but for downtown specifically if the city can have an aggressive and well implemented/thought out TIF program or some sort of abatement program for downtown and certain inner core areas different from what is obviously not working right now, then I'm sure we'll see both more organic growth and more large-scale growth.
There are some firms out there that have the capacity to single-handedly turn around entire areas through creative development strategies, leveraging the right relationships, with experience and with massive marketing teams/efforts. These firms through their opportunistic funds/placements need fewer ingredients to survive than institutional capital/placements, but these ingredients are usually the kind only provided by the city (regulatory and incentivizing ingredients). These are the firms that will bring residents and businesses to the city, the kind of firms that will promote and foster organic growth. It's like some retailers only want certain landlords (aka Simon), but these risk-taking firms are often the kinds of landlords a small business needs. Even on Newbury where my firm has a ton of real estate a lot of the retailers and office users will pay a premium to be with us because we offer stability, support for their business, and we are reasonable to work with (as opposed to the small time locals/old feuding families that own a lot of the rest of the street).
I don't think the city has actively formed relationships with many developers, and those it has formed relationships with are either sketchy (Shipyards Part I) or have little to no experience (the city throws money at one-off developers or projects to failure every time, rather than having set program applicable equally to any developer that meets criteria). The city has very few creative resident developers who can do something downtown (which is unfortunate because the city's peers all have very well known developers who are like local celebrities), but it can at least start talking to outside developers to see what it would take to provide conditions whereby they might consider coming in and building things.
I wonder if the city has done that. Peter Rummell is chair of ULI this year, and I think it's ironic and sad that Jacksonville is never even mentioned in Urban Land publication whereas every other southeastern city is or has been included. The ball is being dropped right and left by both the city and by private business leaders who can also play a role to make it happen.
The other reason why a larger landlord as opposed to your average small DT Jax landlord is better for organic growth/small businesses is that with their opportunistic investments they are willing to take on more risks to make a certain return.
They'll give out hefty tenant improvement allowances, even put in additional landlord work, and potentially put new tenants on a percentage rent scheme that converts to base minimum rent after meeting a certain breakpoint. Not only does this take risk off the tenant, allowing a small tenant to focus on growth and success, it makes it easier for banks to lend to the tenant because risk is heavily shared by the landlord.
Organic growth is great and necessary before you have a big city, but that organic growth is often still fostered by big money and experienced developers who know what they're doing. The city needs the right ingredients to attract the right developers and you'll have everything you need and want happening simultaneously.
To add: a good landlord with a good creative team or a good marketing firm/good brokers will also do the heavy lifting of advertising for its tenants. Especially if its tenants are on % rent and showing signs of promise and growth...if it can drive tenant sales, the landlord will then benefit greatly during a base rent conversion.
Count me as one who has no problem with the JBJ's stance.
I don't think anyone was saying downtown has NOTHING - but it does lag behind most all peer city's downtowns with respect to urban renewal and revitalization. It has some pressing issues and is faced with the need to make really good policy, land-use, and budget decisions.
To this end, I don't think that whatever challenges exist downtown are solved mainly by marketing. Saying "downtown is important" through marketing spin when policy doesn't follow through with a prioritized downtown rings hollow. Very fine well-intentioned people blogging and hosting dinners downtown doesn't change the fact that more than 50% of the city's INCREDIBLE waterfront (and greatest asset) is behind a chain-link fence and inaccessible to the public (as one example). Marketing emphasis (and investment) can be distracting when there are tangible opportunities for incremental "on the ground" improvements and policy changes that are badly needed. But marketing and storytelling is easier - and to the credit of many, when you don't know what to do that's where they can start.
Remindes me of the quote from the legendary former UCLA Basketball coach, John Wooden. He said "don't confuse activity with achievement".
JBJ is right on. I love downtown and frequent its businesses, museums and government offices every day of the week.
Every time I travel, however, I come home more saddened by how little we have to offer suburbanites and visitors to our once great city.
Not only do we lag behind our peer cities (those of similar size) we compare badly with relatively tiny towns like Fargo, North Dakota (population 105,000) and Rapid City, South Dakota (68,000) and even truly tiny New Ulm, Minnesota (14,000). I visited all three last week and will post photos and more info in a few days.
These little cities are all vibrant and full of downtown residents and visitors. They have a couple of important things in common: they preserved their historic building stock and have lovely, well used public spaces that are heavily programmed.
so Miss Fixit...are you saying downtown has nothing worth marketing (to suburbanites, urbanites, or visitors)?
Quote from: tufsu1 on July 16, 2012, 08:19:53 AM
so Miss Fixit...are you saying downtown has nothing worth marketing (to suburbanites, urbanites, or visitors)?
Of course not. I don't think anyone else posting on this thread has said that, either. I simply agree with others that our priorities have long been mixed up when it comes to downtown - we have spent millions of dollars over the past ten years on the wrong initiatives.
I agree...nobody on the thread has said that...the JBJ editorial, however, did!
the absurdium argument was made by the JBJ, not me.
Tufsu, you've made your point, can we move on??
Maybe the JBJ is exaggerating, but most of the posters are contributing some valid points on this thread. Your attempts to call people downtown haters are just cluttering an otherwise good discussion.
I think a good takeaway for the city is that marketing a poor product wont change its fate. If we spend that money on helping small businesses downtown and improving the visitor experience, the marketing will take care of itself. A day center for the homeless, relaxed regulations on signage and other impediments to small business owners, better programming of public spaces, removal of toxic parking policies, issuing RFP's for vacant city-owned land, and increased regulation and enforcement on surface parking lot owners would all do far more towards reviving downtown than the millions the city has wasted on marketing and removing gum from the sidewalks.
^ exactly!
I can't read the entire article, so I don't know what exactly it says, or even what it's really talking about specifically, but any initiative or development like this ought to include a reasonable budget for marketing. It should not be the "hot air" and obfuscation many here are talking about; good marketing is believable and tied to the reality of the product.
That said, as I don't know the specifics of this particular campaign I can't say if it's a good idea or what the price tag is. And clearly it can't replace fixing problems in the first place.
As an example, Orlando successfully markets its downtown to the community as a place to visit, live, and do business. Not long ago they were in no better a position than downtown Jacksonville, and their downtown faces mouse-eared obstacles much larger than what we've got to deal with.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on July 18, 2012, 09:49:24 AM
Tufsu, you've made your point, can we move on??
Maybe the JBJ is exaggerating, but most of the posters are contributing some valid points on this thread. Your attempts to call people downtown haters are just cluttering an otherwise good discussion.
I think a good takeaway for the city is that marketing a poor product wont change its fate. If we spend that money on helping small businesses downtown and improving the visitor experience, the marketing will take care of itself. A day center for the homeless, relaxed regulations on signage and other impediments to small business owners, better programming of public spaces, removal of toxic parking policies, issuing RFP's for vacant city-owned land, and increased regulation and enforcement on surface parking lot owners would all do far more towards reviving downtown than the millions the city has wasted on marketing and removing gum from the sidewalks.
I apologize if my comments have been interpreted that way. I agree that there are many things we can do to make downtown better and that a marketing campaign isn't at the top of the list. I am sorry if my initial post (or subsequent responses) on the subject did not make this clear. That said, I still firmly believe the JBJ editorial was misguided in that it implied thereisn't anything downtown worth marketing.