I just did a bit of research after the article about New York financial houses moving their offices to cities 'like Jacksonville, Florida.' What I came away with is a gaurded sense that we might be seeing the beginnings of a new era of prosperity... What's your take?
QuoteIn December 2010, then Mayor John Peyton announced that Bank of America and Merrill Lynch would add 1,000 jobs to Jacksonville over the subsequent several years.
JAX Chamber said then that with those jobs, Bank of America and Merrill Lynch would employ about 8,000 people in the area. Bank of America owns Merrill Lynch.
“We have a strong commitment to the city of Jacksonville as one of our largest employment centers in the country and continue to hire here,†Toth said in the email.
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=535841
QuoteDeutsche Bank adding 250 jobs in Jacksonville
Will add 27,000 square feet of office space
Posted: November 9, 2009 - 10:42am
By Mark Basch
Deutsche Bank (NYSE: DB) on Monday announced it is adding 250 jobs to its operations center in Jacksonville, where the Germany-based bank employs more than 600 people.
Deutsche Bank opened the facility in July 2008 with plans to employ 1,000 people there by 2011. The company did not say if the 250 new jobs are part of the original plan. John Lafond, head of Deutsche Bank Jacksonville, could not be reached for comment Monday.
http://jacksonville.com/business/2009-11-09/story/deutsche_bank_adding_250_jobs_in_jacksonville
QuoteCitibank adds 400 jobs in Jacksonville
Jacksonville Business Journal by Michael Clinton, Web Producer
Date: Monday, July 2, 2012, 5:31pm EDT
Michael Clinton
Web Producer- Jacksonville Business Journal
Citibank has hired 200 new employees and plans to hire an additional 200 at its Southside Jacksonville campus.
Jerry Mallot, president of JaxUSA Partnership, said Citibank started the hiring process a few months ago and should finish the remainder in the next few months. The hirings were not announced until Monday.
"We are delighted about this, as it will continue to decrease our unemployment rate," Mallot said Monday.
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2012/07/02/citibank-adds-400-jobs-in-jacksonville.html
QuoteFlorida Blue to add 200 jobs in Jacksonville
Posted: May 16, 2012 - 6:22am
By MORRIS NEWS SERVICE
A Florida Blue subsidiary will add 200 jobs in Jacksonville to manage a Medicare administrative contract covering Texas and several other states.
Florida Blue executives will join Mayor Alvin Brown today at the Blue Cross Blue Shield of Florida Building, 532 Riverside Ave., to announce the hiring plans.
Florida Blue obtained the additional business when its subsidiary Diversified Service Options, also based in Jacksonville, bought Highmark Medical Services of Pennsylvania last December.
http://staugustine.com/news/local-news/2012-05-16/florida-blue-add-200-jobs-jacksonville#.T_OjCGihBFI
QuoteARG Move to Bring 2,000 Sailors to Mayport
By RICHARD R. BURGESS, Managing Editor
ARLINGTON, Va. â€" The Navy’s announced move of an amphibious ready group (ARG) to Naval Station Mayport, Fla., will shift 2,000 Sailors from bases in the Norfolk, Va., area, said Capt. Pamela Kunze, spokeswoman for Navy Secretary Ray Mabus.
On June 14, Mabus announced in a release that the ARG’s three ships would shift homeport beginning in the last quarter of 2013, when the San Antonio-class amphibious platform dock ship USS New York is scheduled to arrive in Mayport. He said the Wasp-class amphibious assault ship USS Iwo Jima and the Whidbey Island-class dock landing ship USS Fort McHenry would move to Mayport in 2014.
http://www.seapowermagazine.org/stories/20120618-arg-moves.html
QuoteAT&T to add 30 jobs in Jacksonville
Date: Friday, June 8, 2012, 2:57pm EDT
Sarah Mueller
Reporter- Jacksonville Business Journal
Jacksonville is expected to gain 30 jobs as part of about 300 job openings available in Florida with AT&T, a news release said.
Some of the positions needed in Jacksonville: national account executive, premise technicians, customer service managers and assistant store managers, a company press release said.
AT&T Spokeswoman Gretchen Schultz said the company is growing products and services into more markets. The company has jobs for every skill set, she said.
In 2012, AT&T plans to engage in a deeper and wider manner with the military veteran candidate community, a news release said.
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2012/06/08/att-will-add-30-jobs-in-jacksonville.html?s=print
QuoteGE Working Capital Solutions to open Jacksonville office, hiring up to 3
Date: Tuesday, May 8, 2012, 11:45am EDT - Last Modified: Tuesday, May 8, 2012, 6:39pm EDT
Michael Clinton
Web Producer- Jacksonville Business Journal
GE Working Capital Solutions is planning to open an office in Jacksonville and could hire nearly 300, according to Jax Chamber.
GE WCS will use Jacksonville as an accounts receivables and management center, the Florida Times-Union reports.
The office will be located in the Flagler Center off Old St. Augustine Road near the Baptist South hospital.
The company has 50,000 customers in more than 150 countries and has 47 offices worldwide.
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2012/05/08/ge-working-capital-solutions-to-open.html?ana=e_du_pub&s=article_du&ed=2012-05-08
QuoteKCI Aviation brings new hangar, jobs to Cecil Airport
Date: Monday, January 23, 2012, 4:11pm EST
Michael Clinton
Web Producer- Jacksonville Business Journal
The Jacksonville Aviation Authority Board of Directors approved a lease with KCI Aviation for the construction of a new 30,000-square-foot hangar facility at Cecil Airport. Along with the new facility comes new jobs, KCI is planning to hire at least 30 workers by the end of 2014 with an annual salary of approximately $46,000.
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2012/01/23/kci-aviation-brings-new-hangar.html
QuoteMedtronic starts expansion on Jacksonville's Southside
Posted: April 10, 2012 - 7:33am
By David Bauerlein
Medtronic broke ground Monday on a $14 million expansion of its Jacksonville office on the Southside.
The 75,000-square-foot addition will be finished in 2015. Medtronic also will add 175 jobs to its 600-employee Jacksonville workforce by the end of 2015.
The expansion will house space for research and development, laboratory work and marking and customer training. Jacksonville and the state teamed up for $2.5 million in financial incentives.
Medtronic's surgical technology division, which accounts for about $1 billion a year in revenue, has its main office in Jacksonville.
http://jacksonville.com/business/daily-briefs/2012-04-10/story/medtronic-starts-expansion-jBusiness / Daily Briefs
QuoteBi-Lo would get $6.6 million in incentives to come to Jacksonville, bring 100 high-wage jobs
Date: Monday, March 12, 2012, 11:24am EDT - Last Modified: Monday, March 26, 2012, 9:57am EDT
MICHAEL CLINTON
Mayor Alvin Brown welcomed Bi-Lo to Jacksonville in a press conference Monday. Bi-Lo received $2 million in incentives from the city to move its headquarters to Jacksonville.
Bi-Lo Holding will receive $6.6 million in incentives to move its company combining the grocery chains Bi-Lo LLC and Winn-Dixie Stores Inc. to Jacksonville.
The incentives were announced at a press conference this morning with Mayor Alvin Brown, Lt. Gov. Jennifer Carroll and Jerry Mallot, president of JaxUSA Partnership.
Bi-Lo, which announced its merger with Winn-Dixie Stores Inc. in December, will receive a $2 million Revenue Enhancement Value grant from the city over 10 years. The grant is used to assist businesses that are expanding or relocating in Jacksonville.
The state has offered more than $4 million as well, with $1.04 million coming from Florida’s Quick Response Training program, which supports business expansion efforts, and $3.6 million from the Quick Action Closing Fund, which will offset the costs of relocation expenses and equipment purchases.
The company announced Monday that it would move its headquarters from South Carolina to Jacksonville.
Over 10 years, Bi Lo will create 100 new high-wage jobs and make a capital investment of about $93 million in Jacksonville. Mallot said most of that $93 million will be spent on improving IT equipment at the headquarters and distribution center.
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2012/03/12/bi-lo-gets-6-million-in-incentives-to.html?ana=e_du_pub&s=article_du&ed=2012-03-12
QuoteNorthwestern Mutual to add 30 Jacksonville jobs
Date: Friday, March 2, 2012, 10:21am EST
Michael Clinton
Northwestern Mutual’s office in Jacksonville plans to hire 30 financial representatives in 2012, as part of the company’s nationwide effort to recruit more than 5,000 financial professionals in 2012.
The company also plans to hire 40 financial representative interns for the Jacksonville office in 2012.
“More people are looking for financial guidance and they’re turning to companies like Northwestern Mutual that have been consistently financially strong,†said Bill Koch, managing partner of The Koch Group. “We’re hoping to add professionals to help keep pace with the strong demand among consumers for financial advice and financial security.â€
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2012/03/02/jacksonville-company-to-add-30-jobs-in.html?ed=2012-03-02&s=article_du&ana=e_du_pub
QuoteGlobal Technologies expands to Jacksonville, buying office space and hiring nearly 70
Jacksonville Business Journal, Date: Tuesday, February 14, 2012, 9:50am EST
Michael Clinton
Global Technologies LLC said today it is expanding to Florida, bringing nearly 250 construction jobs to the Sunshine State and buying a 36,000-square-foot office in Jacksonville while hiring nearly 70 employees.
The Chicago-based construction firm, serving telecom, utilities and government, plans to hire 60 to 70 employees in Jacksonville for construction, back office, warehouse, accounting and IT among others. Those interested in Jacksonville jobs can send resumes to jacksonvillejobs@glotech.us.
The jobs will pay between $17 an hour and $35 an hour, depending on experience and the position. However, Global’s president and CEO, Joseph Mwachullah, said many of the jobs, including construction, don’t require any experience.
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2012/02/14/global-technologies-expands-to.html?ed=2012-02-14&s=article_du&ana=e_du_pub
Depends. How does this stack up with job and economic growth experienced by our peers?
I'm still waiting for real news.
QuoteThe 55-story, 2.1 million-square-foot Bank of America Tower, designed by Cook + Fox Architects, utilizes a wide range of high performance environmental strategies and technologies to enhance
http://mediaroom.bankofamerica.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=234503&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1431495
Bottomline, the only things that most of MJ appreciates are implementing streetcar in Jax, yuppie white collar jobs added to DT, retail added to DT, and high rise construction in DT, that's it. Anything else is 'not progressive enough'. Adding jobs to the burbs 'doesn't matter'. So while I think that Jax is obviously taking steps in the right direction, I'm expecting the typical 'gloom and doom' look at what Charlotte, Atlanta etc bullshit to rear it's ugly head from most of jaded MJ; IMO it's really stupid to act that way (only caring about high paying downtown jobs, towers etc) but whatever.
I wonder how some of these new companies moving into the area can be enticed to move into the city core? If I were a god, I would take it upon myself to survey all of the existing vacant buildings in the core, listing the characteristics of each; size, floors, parking, state of repair, readiness to occupy, proximity to key transportation nodes, including the new streetcar routes.
I would contact the building owners and, being a god, kick them in the ass by some method so that they might see the point of readying the buildings for occupancy instead of allowing them to descend to the point that nobody would think of occupying them simply because of the work required to do so.
To ready a building for potential occupation takes money of course. Where does it come from? A building owner struggling to make payments and pay taxes might not have it. And the tax payers, via the infinite wisdom of the city council members, don’t want to gamble on fixing up a core building in hopes that one of these companies might choose it instead of an outlying location.
The companies themselves might have the funds and be willing to spend on the renovation of a core building. If this is true, and if the building owner has any funds, they could share the expense. And what if the city, by a wise city council decision, might be willing to contribute some funds too? This would provide three sources of funds for making an existing building ready for occupation. It sounds sort of realistic, but something is lacking.
The missing ingredient is perhaps the lack of focus, encouragement, and implementation of a plan for action by the right agency. Which is the right agency? Is it DVI? Is it the Chamber? Is it the mayor’s office? Is it the new Civic Council? One or some of these agencies should be focusing on a plan to do something like the above.
Another idea. Each company who establishes its new location in the outlying areas should be contacted by the agency and asked exactly why they did not choose the city core. After a while, by some magic, there will emerge before all to see a statistical view of the real reasons why companies are continuing to avoid the city core. Beautiful information, very valuable.
Most of us sense that knowledge is power. The information gathered should allow the local powers to ponder the survey for the three most frequent reasons that companies avoid the city core. This might allow for focus on these reasons or obstacles so that action could be taken to remove them.
If the surveying of recent business arrivals about reasons for decisions to avoid the city core is not done soon, if the funding matchmaking between the owners of core buildings and the potential occupiers, and the city, is not done soon so that suitable buildings can be readied for occupancy; ….. if all of these things are not performed soon by an agency, I might, during my lunch breaks, to do it myself.
How about Everbank? I'm watching this company more than any other in Jacksonville. This from yesterday:
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2012/07/02/everbank-acquires-ge-capital-re.html
Everbank also participates in the community moreso than probably any other firm. My hunch as to why is that it is because it is a homegrown firm where management resides in Jacksonville (rather than a support operation that is essentially duplicated 6x over for large global firms based elsewhere).
I'll be happier when there are more Everbanks, more startups, etc. Jacksonville won't regain its stature as a financial hub until it has its own homegrown banks/firms and traditional (rather than support) offices for major global financial firms. That is if Jacksonville wants to pursue that as its niche economic base (it doesn't seem like officials pursue any one sort of industry based on city's strengths over other industries)
Quote from: I-10east on July 04, 2012, 12:36:54 AM
Bottomline, the only only things that most of MJ appreciates are implementing streetcar in Jax, yuppie white collar jobs added to DT, retail added to DT, and high rise construction in DT, that's it. Anything else is 'not progressive enough'.
Promise not trying to be conrontational, just curious: what do you appreciate? Or are you a take what news I can get? If the latter, don't you think that's sort of lowering your standards, which may have been worn down over years of stagnancy? And further, do you think stagnancy is due to too many people just "taking whatever they can get?"
Though some people have difficulty with this, I appreciate MJ for being an outlet for honest discussion, even if it is difficult.
It's good to hear some good news. FWIW the one article on mid-level job growth specifically mentioned Jax along with North Carolina and Salt Lake City. SLC, Charlotte, and Raleigh are peer cities I'm comfortable being discussed next to.
Quote from: simms3 on July 04, 2012, 12:45:24 AM
Promise not trying to be conrontational, just curious: what do you appreciate?
Jobs to the city of Jacksonville, simple as that. This website is the ONLY source of media that I ever saw that poo poos adding jobs; If you have the mentality of 'The only jobs that matter are high paying DT jobs', that is a very pessimistic and unrealistic point of view.
Quote
Though some people have difficulty with this, I appreciate MJ for being an outlet for honest discussion, even if it is difficult.
At times, discussions about new jobs, commerce etc in the city can become alarmingly pessimistic, and unfairly negative. It's as if this was Gary, Ind or something. I'm not saying throw and party and celebrate, but I will never see the reason to downplay jobs added to the city; I will say something like a simple not too celebratory 'good for jax' even when typical suburban jobs are added, and not the sarcastic 'Yay! more 10 dollar an hour jobs in suburbia, at this rate we will catch up to the third world, hahahaha". That's very tiresome, not funny or informative.
Quote from: I-10east on July 04, 2012, 01:11:25 AM
Jobs to the city of Jacksonville, simple as that. This website is the ONLY source of media that I ever saw that poo poos adding jobs; If you have the mentality of 'The only jobs that matter are high paying DT jobs', that is a very pessimistic and unrealistic point of view.
The ONLY issue I take with some of the lower paying jobs are when subsidies are handed out that have a greater value than the sum of the jobs created. Politicians like to brag about jobs created, but not all jobs are created equally.
To the original question of the post, yes, I believe happy days are returning. I see a general sense of optimism in the business I am in. Those who have survived this mess are poised to make a good run.
As I read the list on the original post, I realized that some of those jobs came at the expense of jobs elsewhere. It would also be great to have the same list about jobs Jacksonville is losing. Like Swisher and Bacardi. Without that second list, it's hard to know if Jacksonville is gaining or just managing to keep a status quo. Of course, it could be argued that keeping the status quo in today's world is doing OK. It could still be going the other way.
Quote from: I-10east on July 04, 2012, 01:11:25 AM
Quote from: simms3 on July 04, 2012, 12:45:24 AM
Promise not trying to be conrontational, just curious: what do you appreciate?
Jobs to the city of Jacksonville, simple as that. This website is the ONLY source of media that I ever saw that poo poos adding jobs; If you have the mentality of 'The only jobs that matter are high paying DT jobs', that is a very pessimistic and unrealistic point of view.
Quote
Though some people have difficulty with this, I appreciate MJ for being an outlet for honest discussion, even if it is difficult.
At times, discussions about new jobs, commerce etc in the city can become alarmingly pessimistic, and unfairly negative. It's as if this was Gary, Ind or something. I'm not saying throw and party and celebrate, but I will never see the reason to downplay jobs added to the city; I will say something like a simple not too celebratory 'good for jax' even when typical suburban jobs are added, and not the sarcastic 'Yay! more 10 dollar an hour jobs in suburbia, at this rate we will catch up to the third world, hahahaha". That's very tiresome, not funny or informative.
Jobs are fine but the original post isolated Jax by itself and suggest "happy days" are returning based on a few places expanding in town. The new jobs are great but to accurately answer the question, more information is needed. For example, if we're adding 5 jobs and everyone else our size is averaging 20 new jobs during the same period, then we've got some work to do. In addition, if we're adding the 5 posted but didn't list the 5 lost during the same period, we have no idea what the actual number is. So at this point, yes, I guess the economy is improving, it's just not Jax specific.
I wonder if these companies comprehend how conservative republican this city is...if they sit in on a few council meetings theyll run screaming from this city...compared to other metropolitan cities we are ages behind.
Quote from: thelakelander on July 04, 2012, 07:56:48 AM
Quote from: I-10east on July 04, 2012, 01:11:25 AM
Quote from: simms3 on July 04, 2012, 12:45:24 AM
Promise not trying to be conrontational, just curious: what do you appreciate?
Jobs to the city of Jacksonville, simple as that. This website is the ONLY source of media that I ever saw that poo poos adding jobs; If you have the mentality of 'The only jobs that matter are high paying DT jobs', that is a very pessimistic and unrealistic point of view.
Quote
Though some people have difficulty with this, I appreciate MJ for being an outlet for honest discussion, even if it is difficult.
At times, discussions about new jobs, commerce etc in the city can become alarmingly pessimistic, and unfairly negative. It's as if this was Gary, Ind or something. I'm not saying throw and party and celebrate, but I will never see the reason to downplay jobs added to the city; I will say something like a simple not too celebratory 'good for jax' even when typical suburban jobs are added, and not the sarcastic 'Yay! more 10 dollar an hour jobs in suburbia, at this rate we will catch up to the third world, hahahaha". That's very tiresome, not funny or informative.
Jobs are fine but the original post isolated Jax by itself and suggest "happy days" are returning based on a few places expanding in town. The new jobs are great but to accurately answer the question, more information is needed. For example, if we're adding 5 jobs and everyone else our size is averaging 20 new jobs during the same period, then we've got some work to do. In addition, if we're adding the 5 posted but didn't list the 5 lost during the same period, we have no idea what the actual number is. So at this point, yes, I guess the economy is improving, it's just not Jax specific.
I would expect that if we're behind our peers in this area it's due to other local and state factors rather than the quantity of new jobs. Namely, our historical over-reliance on the housing market. Jobs in that area are not coming back on the level they were five years ago.
At any rate news of new jobs coming to town is good news.
Besides needing to have that list of lost jobs, we also need to know the types of jobs. If Company A brings in 50 white collar IT jobs and Company B takes away 50 Blue Collar decent paying jobs, is Jacksonville better or worse off?
Quote from: I-10east on July 04, 2012, 12:36:54 AM
Bottomline, the only only things that most of MJ appreciates are implementing streetcar in Jax, yuppie white collar jobs added to DT, retail added to DT, and high rise construction in DT, that's it. Anything else is 'not progressive enough'. Adding jobs to the burbs 'doesn't matter'. So while I think that Jax is obviously taking steps in the right direction, I'm expecting the typical 'gloom and doom' look at what Charlotte, Atlanta etc bullshit to rear it's ugly head from most of jaded MJ; IMO it's really stupid to act that way (only caring about high paying downtown jobs, towers etc) but whatever.
Good point
Quote from: Garden guy on July 04, 2012, 08:20:47 AM
I wonder if these companies comprehend how conservative republican this city is...if they sit in on a few council meetings theyll run screaming from this city...compared to other metropolitan cities we are ages behind.
A lot of corps probably jump at the concessions the conservative city government offers.
Jacksonville is the cheapest, most affordable city in Florida, located on the Atlantic coast. With a NFL football team.
While Atlanta, Charlotte have stronger assets like international airports for travel, they cant compete with that.
Yeah, I think Jacksonville could be in for a period of prosperity.
If there is indeed a momentum of companies moving to Jax, it would be great if whatever individuals or agencies in Jax are charged with the task of persuading these companies to move into the core instead of the outlying office parks “would get of their assesâ€. Hell, if 25% of the new arrivals would locate in the core, it would be enough to begin a momentum for further new occupancies.
I must have missed any references to ongoing efforts by some individuals or groups to entice these incoming companies to the core. Who are these individuals or groups set with the task of core infill by newly arriving companies? Are there any? Is anyone home? Are they on vacation? Are they sleeping? Are they incompetent? WTF?
Or, are they being paid by office park owners to route new arrivals to lease with them? After all, money is the key in America, and certainly in Jax in this economy. And given the average integrities I’ve seen in the area, money funneled here and there just might be the answer to the riddle of why companies seldom end up seriously entertaining locating in the core.
Again…. who is sleeping? Who is falling down on the job? Again… WTF?
My thoughts:
1. There is more than a kernel of truth in I-10's comments about the bent of the guys who run MJ. But that's not to say they are bad guys - their focus may just be a bit limited.
2. Ron, I thought you were a god. I'm sorry to find out I was wrong.
3. Most of those jobs in all those articles are not exactly higher salaried positions. I agree that any new jobs are good for us, but unless the city gets a good share of upper salaried new positions, Jacksonville will continue to be what I call "a poor city." Our taxes are too low, and that is one reason why our school system is, with a few exceptions, in bad shape; why we have an enormous police/fire/public employee pension problem; etc. Taxes won't be raised because there are too many in the city who really cannot afford much more and also because out councilmen/women are too afraid of not getting re-elected to increase the millage rate.
I found support for these views yesterday listening to Bill Bishop (new City Council pres.) on First Coast Connect. According to him, one of the first thing that potential new businesses ask about the city is how good the private schools are. Melissa Ross tried to correct him by saying he must have meant public, not private schools. He responded by saying he meant what he said - everyone knows how bad Jacksonville's public schools are, so they want to know what the private schools have to offer. BTW, that was one of the best FCC programs I've heard, and if there is a way to listen to in in an archive, I heartily recommend it to all.
Quote from: I-10east on July 04, 2012, 01:11:25 AM
Quote from: simms3 on July 04, 2012, 12:45:24 AM
Promise not trying to be conrontational, just curious: what do you appreciate?
Jobs to the city of Jacksonville, simple as that. This website is the ONLY source of media that I ever saw that poo poos adding jobs; If you have the mentality of 'The only jobs that matter are high paying DT jobs', that is a very pessimistic and unrealistic point of view.
Quote
Though some people have difficulty with this, I appreciate MJ for being an outlet for honest discussion, even if it is difficult.
At times, discussions about new jobs, commerce etc in the city can become alarmingly pessimistic, and unfairly negative. It's as if this was Gary, Ind or something. I'm not saying throw and party and celebrate, but I will never see the reason to downplay jobs added to the city; I will say something like a simple not too celebratory 'good for jax' even when typical suburban jobs are added, and not the sarcastic 'Yay! more 10 dollar an hour jobs in suburbia, at this rate we will catch up to the third world, hahahaha". That's very tiresome, not funny or informative.
Personally I think your right, but as Ron quoted:
"The missing ingredient is perhaps the lack of focus, encouragement, and implementation of a plan for action by the right agency. Which is the right agency? Is it DVI? Is it the Chamber? Is it the mayor’s office? Is it the new Civic Council? One or some of these agencies should be focusing on a plan to do something like the above."
This city never has a plan. Until Jacksonville has a strong agreed upon plan/ nothing will every happen.
I think this is my MJ is a good site. MJ has a plan on how to capitalize on such jobs. Use the jobs to get more citywide energy than just being added jobs. I think successful cites know how to get the most bang for the buck. Great cities don't just get jobs, they make these new jobs a part of the bigger plan and direction of the city. As for downtown agencies: Sorry, but I have no idea which one is which. They all mix into a big pile of 'gettin nothing done.'
Thans Ock for the links!
Also MJ is the only 'future gazing' plan this city has. MJ is just looking to what is working very well in our peer cities.
Not some kind of 'if we tried this things might work.' We have proof.
Quote from: simms3 on July 04, 2012, 12:45:24 AM
Quote from: I-10east on July 04, 2012, 12:36:54 AM
Bottomline, the only only things that most of MJ appreciates are implementing streetcar in Jax, yuppie white collar jobs added to DT, retail added to DT, and high rise construction in DT, that's it. Anything else is 'not progressive enough'.
Promise not trying to be conrontational, just curious: what do you appreciate? Or are you a take what news I can get? If the latter, don't you think that's sort of lowering your standards, which may have been worn down over years of stagnancy? And further, do you think stagnancy is due to too many people just "taking whatever they can get?"
Though some people have difficulty with this, I appreciate MJ for being an outlet for honest discussion, even if it is difficult.
"Promise not trying to be confrontational?"
Don't shiver in your boots. You have a voice and a right to express your voice.
Sorry, but I am not a very linear person, nor do I have any expertise in the field of running a city or urban planning. I usually come on here to learn. The one thing that I find so hard to follow in Jacksonville (as set forth by it's leaders) is so many agencies that seem to do nothing/ maybe ever running counter productive against each other.
I am just curious how and why things get done in successful cities? There has been some amazing things that have made sense such as the canopy program, but who comes up with these ideas of cutting down all the trees in Hemming Plaza to get rid of homeless people. This is so stupid. I don't have to be knowledgable in urban planning to realize this makes no sense. I think a plan might streamline some of this junk. I might be wrong, but I really feel the master plan of UNF has been an amazing example of how to come to a consensus on a direction and not straying from the plan.
Here is a link.
http://www.unf.edu/masterplan/
It has been great watching UNF's master plan come to life.
Remember when some downtown agency proposed putting up a carnival on the shipyards site/ tearing down some historical fabric for a parking garage. Which agency thought this crap up?
Either they make money from demolition, building parking garages, collecting money for parking, or are stupid.
I think a plan would send this crap to the periphery. Just as UNF's master plan protects and preserves wildlife, downtown's master plan should protect historical fabric. I know this isn't so easy, but it would provide a direction (maybe).
^^^Agreed, though slightly off topic. I think Jax lacks refined direction on bringing jobs to the city. There are all sorts of jobs coming to the city, but there is not one economic base that sort of defines the city. It's not a category killer like its former peers. I think a plan needs to be made for everything.
From my chamber:
QuoteThe Metro **** Chamber works with many partners to recruit companies and headquarters to metro **** by focusing its marketing strategy on the logistics, high-tech and biomedical sectors and on global trade. Brazil, Russia, India and China are major global markets currently being pursued in this effort.
Contrast to Jacksonville's Chamber (nothing wrong with the description, but probably too 50,000 ft view and not enough specifics):
QuoteThe JAX Chamber is the business membership organization dedicated to driving quality economic growth in Northeast Florida to make this region the best place to work, live and play. Membership provides the opportunity to connect with and buy from other Chamber members. The connections result in business growth and a more prosperous economy.
Furthermore, recently my Chamber unveiled a Forward **** Plan, created in conjuction with Boston Consulting. Here it is in a nutshell:
QuoteThe five strategic areas:
Strategy One: Jump-start short-term and mid-term job growth. Concentrating on job growth from existing companies and startups in sub-clusters where **** has national strength â€" wireless mobility, health information technology, internet security, biomedical devices and digital content.
Strategy Two: Catalyze on new business formation. Creating an ecosystem that fosters new businesses, growing local venture funds and angel investments, and advocating for new business and investor tax incentives.
Strategy Three: Elevate quality of life and core infrastructure. Promoting the expansion of the Port of ****, ensuring construction of transportation projects being on time and on budget, support the completion of reservoir projects, reinvigorating Pre-K through college education and publishing a regional scorecard for business and quality of life.
Strategy Four: Confidently tell our story. Marketing **** as a top university town, working with regional partners to promote assets and aspirations, establishing key talking points about ****, and launching digital and social media campaigns on key **** assets and opportunities.
Strategy Five: Drive strong higher education and business collaboration. Increasing the links between the business community and higher education for research and development, strengthening new business formations at universities, helping prepare students for “jobs of the future,†and partnering with existing organizations such as the **** Research Alliance.
I agree refined plans to tackle just about anything are needed. Perhaps Jacksonville needs to enlist Boston Consulting for its own strengths/weaknesses and to draft a plan that corresponds.
I also find it very difficult to find who besides Wally Lee and Tom Van Berkel are running the Chamber. Their website does not seem fully developed. I want to see bios of the members of the Board. I know UNF certainly provides such information, and its master plan is readily available (as well as previous versions of the master plan...something I have definitely followed), and you know who is running the show over there.
Also slightly off-topic. What has Jacksonville been doing with it's IBM Smarter Cities Challenge grant? http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/37187.wss (http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/37187.wss)
EDIT: Disregard. Found out myself http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2012-03-15/story/jacksonville-participate-ibm-smarter-cities-grant-focus-downtown (http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2012-03-15/story/jacksonville-participate-ibm-smarter-cities-grant-focus-downtown)
What bothers me about the concept of " unless the city gets a good share of upper salaried new positions, Jacksonville will continue to be what I call "a poor city." is that this is ultimately what promotes us being perceived as a poorer city. If we do not get the blue collar jobs that pay well (Something above a living wage), if we continue to lose those jobs, we become poorer as a city. Why? Because while those white collar higher wage earners can and often move for those jobs, the blue collar work force seldom does and in fact mostly can't. They get left with below living wage jobs and so makes the city appear poorer regardless of how many high paying white collar jobs there may be.
Of course, one way to help avoid that perception is too keep the 'burbs full of those companies that offer white collar higher wage jobs and keep those below living wage earners in that urban area. Oh wait, that's what has been happening the last 4 or 5 decades. And what I believe MJ is often trying to get us out of with their support of more urban based jobs and the promotion of a vibrant downtown area.
Of course, even the promotion of downtown won't solve the low income problem. As long as the Bacardi's find it much less expensive to produce their products in other countries, we will have a entire work force struggling to survive. The city needs to find a way to get back to industry too or all the hopes and dreams of a truly prosperous Jacksonville will be for not.
Quote from: I-10east on July 04, 2012, 12:36:54 AM
Bottomline, the only only things that most of MJ appreciates are implementing streetcar in Jax, yuppie white collar jobs added to DT, retail added to DT, and high rise construction in DT, that's it. Anything else is 'not progressive enough'. Adding jobs to the burbs 'doesn't matter'. So while I think that Jax is obviously taking steps in the right direction, I'm expecting the typical 'gloom and doom' look at what Charlotte, Atlanta etc bullshit to rear it's ugly head from most of jaded MJ; IMO it's really stupid to act that way (only caring about high paying downtown jobs, towers etc) but whatever.
4,565 new jobs (if you add up my list), somewhere above the average Wal-Mart pay scale and your bitching that I'm upset by this? Hell's bells man, I simply asked if happy days are here again. No where in my post do you read the words 'DOWNTOWN,' one could hardly call 2,000 new jobs at Mayport 'downtown'. So who's the jaded negative Nelly here?
Streetcar is promoted because it is a proved development engine in cities world wide. The ROI for streetcar far exceeds the cost of implementation through new development that spring up along fixed rail routes. MJ pushes rail because we could use the jobs created by a streetcar development boom. In case you haven't noticed, the proposed streetcar route isn't all downtown, in fact over half of the mileage between Shand's and King Street in Riverside is through urban neighborhoods.
If you seek the one spreading doom and gloom, might we suggest you look in a mirror?
Quote from: stephendare on July 04, 2012, 10:43:23 AM
meh. I-10 is a bit of a dimwit, imho.
He generally thinks that any and all discussion about how to improve the inner city threatens or condemns his home out in the suburbs somewhere---a bizarre fixation that no one has ever tried to either encourage or discourage. As Dorothy Parker once famously said, "You can lead a horticulture, but you can't make her think."
Thanks for the kind words. You say that I'm anti-inner city, that's laughable; I've basically lived nearly my entire life in dense urban environments. In fact, during MJ chat about improving the inner core, I tend to sit back and observe, because I've never claimed to know the intricacies of urban development; What I do know is that the municipal government has to run an entire city, not only DT like you think, talk about a bizarre fixation. I guess that you would be for deconsolidating the city so that ALL of the time and energy can be devoted to the precious lil' urban core. I LOVE urban development more than you would like the think, but I don't have a temper tantrum whatever something profitable is added to the burbs either (like the SJTC). The difference between me and you is that I try to be 50/50 urban/suburban, and you are 100% urban minded total tunnel vision, which isn't realistic for Jax, let alone any city.
Jacksonville is solidly middle class...it has a LONG way to go to be poor and a LONG way to go to be wealthy. I compiled this data recently. (and then after posting I *have* to go to the pool :) )
I only included the 81 largest primary/satellite cities within the continental US (excluded Honolulu and Anchorage and cities like Mesa, Scottsdale, the Arlingtons, Newark, Glendale, etc etc). I have tons of tracking lists such as these.
City limits ranked by % Households earning greater than $100,000 (and # households)
1 San Jose 39.25% 117,794
2 San Francisco 36.55% 122,792
3 Washington 29.56% 76,063
4 San Diego 28.63% 135,966
5 Seattle 28.11% 78,835
6 Virginia Beach 25.58% 41,937
7 Boston 23.67% 58,194
8 Oakland 23.13% 35,818
9 Atlanta 22.98% 41,007
10 New York City 22.84% 695,992
11 Los Angeles 22.10% 290,438
12 Raleigh 21.87% 33,828
13 Charlotte 21.55% 60,789
14 Austin 21.27% 67,285
15 Bakersfield 21.18% 22,376
16 Las Vegas 20.76% 44,006
17 Colorado Springs 20.72% 33,628
18 Madison 19.73% 19,378
19 Sacramento 19.39% 33,727
20 Chicago 19.37% 200,096
21 Phoenix 19.04% 98,189
22 Denver 19.03% 48,371
23 Portland 18.98% 46,464
24 Lexington 18.71% 22,624
25 Reno 18.67% 16,658
26 Durham 18.63% 16,901
27 Boise City 18.61% 16,011
28 Minneapolis 18.58% 31,055
29 Tampa 18.34% 24,443
30 Fort Worth 17.97% 45,245
31 Houston 17.89% 136,815
32 Little Rock 17.69% 14,062
33 Dallas 17.35% 78,005
34 Stockton 17.00% 15,364
35 Albuquerque 16.99% 36,912
36 Tacoma 16.58% 13,264
37 St. Paul 16.48% 18,381
38 Omaha 16.32% 26,604
39 Corpus Christi 16.26% 17,749
40 Jacksonville 16.14% 50,206
41 Oklahoma City 16.03% 35,715
42 Kansas City 15.99% 30,812
43 Lincoln 15.67% 15,999
44 Nashville 15.61% 37,854
45 Wichita 15.53% 23,350
46 Fresno 15.42% 24,090
47 Montgomery 15.22% 12,237
48 New Orleans 15.22% 17,752
49 Louisville 15.15% 36,298
50 Winston-Salem 15.10% 13,487
51 Greensboro 14.94% 16,101
52 San Antonio 14.85% 68,479
53 Baton Rouge 14.51% 12,841
54 Orlando 14.44% 14,102
55 St. Petersburg 14.41% 15,383
56 Indianapolis 14.21% 46,108
57 Tulsa 14.20% 23,414
58 Lubbock 13.73% 11,818
59 Richmond 13.59% 11,347
60 Baltimore 13.41% 31,968
61 Norfolk 13.12% 11,160
62 Columbus 12.62% 40,189
63 Pittsburgh 12.50% 16,869
64 Fort Wayne 12.28% 12,449
65 El Paso 12.17% 25,122
66 Cincinnati 12.11% 16,057
67 Des Moines 12.02% 10,017
68 Philadelphia 11.86% 68,134
69 Memphis 11.54% 28,446
70 Spokane 11.06% 9,701
71 Miami 10.57% 15,757
72 Saint Louis 10.13% 14,226
73 Tucson 9.92% 20,565
74 Milwaukee 8.87% 20,419
75 Buffalo 8.51% 9,603
76 Knoxville 7.98% 6,553
77 Birmingham 7.85% 7,091
78 Toledo 7.72% 9,295
79 Rochester 7.41% 6,342
80 Detroit 6.53% 17,700
81 Cleveland 5.29% 9,018
Cities ranked by % Households earning less than $25,000 (and # HH)
1 Cleveland 46.25% 78,840
2 Detroit 44.86% 121,593
3 Miami 43.98% 65,564
4 Buffalo 43.37% 48,940
5 Rochester 42.18% 36,101
6 Birmingham 40.44% 36,530
7 Cincinnati 39.59% 52,493
8 Saint Louis 38.85% 54,561
9 Knoxville 38.23% 31,393
10 Toledo 37.52% 45,176
11 Pittsburgh 37.23% 50,243
12 Philadelphia 36.91% 212,044
13 Baton Rouge 36.47% 32,276
14 New Orleans 35.83% 41,791
15 Milwaukee 35.31% 81,285
16 Richmond 34.98% 29,208
17 El Paso 34.68% 71,589
18 Memphis 34.32% 84,597
19 Tucson 33.06% 68,538
20 Baltimore 32.77% 78,121
21 Lubbock 30.92% 26,614
22 Tulsa 30.85% 50,868
23 Atlanta 30.75% 54,872
24 Fresno 30.51% 47,665
25 Spokane 30.26% 26,542
26 Winston-Salem 29.91% 26,714
27 Boston 29.57% 72,700
28 Corpus Christi 29.56% 32,268
29 Montgomery 29.44% 23,671
30 Tampa 29.41% 39,197
31 Louisville 29.22% 70,009
32 Minneapolis 29.17% 48,755
33 Chicago 29.12% 300,816
34 Dallas 29.02% 130,473
35 Columbus 28.96% 92,224
36 Greensboro 28.89% 31,135
37 Houston 28.87% 220,786
38 San Antonio 28.73% 132,485
39 Kansas City 28.40% 54,725
40 St. Paul 28.38% 31,653
41 Denver 28.30% 71,933
42 Oakland 28.02% 43,390
43 Norfolk 27.81% 23,655
44 Des Moines 27.80% 23,168
45 Indianapolis 27.75% 90,042
46 New York City 27.65% 842,564
47 Oklahoma City 27.38% 61,003
48 Lexington 27.19% 32,877
49 St. Petersburg 27.02% 28,845
50 Little Rock 26.94% 21,414
51 Wichita 26.75% 40,219
52 Los Angeles 26.55% 348,920
53 Nashville 26.34% 63,873
54 Orlando 26.30% 25,685
55 Durham 26.02% 23,605
56 Omaha 25.89% 42,204
57 Portland 25.74% 63,012
58 Fort Wayne 25.67% 26,023
59 Tacoma 25.59% 20,473
60 Albuquerque 25.52% 55,444
61 Lincoln 25.01% 25,535
62 Stockton 24.87% 22,476
63 Reno 24.73% 22,065
64 Fort Worth 24.49% 61,661
65 Phoenix 24.24% 125,006
66 Jacksonville 24.16% 75,153
67 Sacramento 24.01% 41,763
68 Washington 23.88% 61,447
69 Austin 23.60% 74,656
70 Madison 23.51% 23,091
71 Boise City 21.80% 18,755
72 Colorado Springs 21.73% 35,267
73 Bakersfield 21.66% 22,883
74 Raleigh 21.59% 33,395
75 Charlotte 21.34% 60,196
76 San Francisco 20.90% 70,215
77 Las Vegas 20.73% 43,942
78 Seattle 20.48% 57,437
79 San Diego 19.18% 91,087
80 San Jose 14.87% 44,627
81 Virginia Beach 12.55% 20,575
Cities ranked by % "Middle Class" (those HH earning between $25K and $100K)
1 Fort Wayne 62.05% 62,904
2 Virginia Beach 61.87% 101,432
3 Des Moines 60.18% 50,153
4 Jacksonville 59.70% 185,705
5 Boise City 59.59% 51,266
6 Lincoln 59.32% 60,565
7 Orlando 59.26% 57,874
8 Norfolk 59.07% 50,246
9 Spokane 58.68% 51,471
10 St. Petersburg 58.57% 62,526
11 Las Vegas 58.51% 124,027
12 Columbus 58.42% 186,041
13 Stockton 58.13% 52,535
14 Nashville 58.05% 140,769
15 Indianapolis 58.04% 188,325
16 Tacoma 57.83% 46,266
17 Omaha 57.79% 94,206
18 Wichita 57.72% 86,784
19 Colorado Springs 57.55% 93,401
20 Fort Worth 57.54% 144,874
21 Albuquerque 57.49% 124,900
22 Bakersfield 57.16% 60,388
23 Charlotte 57.11% 161,097
24 Tucson 57.02% 118,210
25 Madison 56.76% 55,747
26 Phoenix 56.72% 292,506
27 Reno 56.60% 50,501
28 Sacramento 56.60% 98,449
29 Oklahoma City 56.59% 126,084
30 Raleigh 56.54% 87,454
31 San Antonio 56.42% 260,175
32 Greensboro 56.17% 60,534
33 Milwaukee 55.82% 128,499
34 Louisville 55.63% 133,285
35 Kansas City 55.61% 107,158
36 Little Rock 55.37% 44,013
37 Lubbock 55.35% 47,642
38 Durham 55.35% 50,212
39 Montgomery 55.34% 44,496
40 Portland 55.28% 135,327
41 St. Paul 55.14% 61,500
42 Austin 55.13% 174,397
43 Winston-Salem 54.99% 49,114
44 Tulsa 54.95% 90,606
45 Toledo 54.76% 65,934
46 Corpus Christi 54.18% 59,143
47 Memphis 54.14% 133,452
48 Lexington 54.10% 65,416
49 Fresno 54.07% 84,471
50 Baltimore 53.82% 128,303
51 Knoxville 53.79% 44,170
52 Dallas 53.63% 241,119
53 Houston 53.24% 407,157
54 El Paso 53.15% 109,716
55 Denver 52.67% 133,877
56 Tampa 52.25% 69,637
57 Minneapolis 52.25% 87,331
58 San Diego 52.19% 247,853
59 Birmingham 51.71% 46,711
60 Chicago 51.51% 532,110
61 Richmond 51.43% 42,943
62 Seattle 51.41% 144,181
63 Los Angeles 51.35% 674,841
64 Philadelphia 51.23% 294,310
65 Saint Louis 51.02% 71,652
66 Rochester 50.41% 43,145
67 Pittsburgh 50.27% 67,841
68 New York City 49.51% 1,508,693
69 Baton Rouge 49.02% 43,383
70 New Orleans 48.95% 57,094
71 Oakland 48.85% 75,646
72 Detroit 48.61% 131,757
73 Cleveland 48.46% 82,607
74 Cincinnati 48.30% 64,041
75 Buffalo 48.12% 54,301
76 Boston 46.76% 114,963
77 Washington 46.56% 119,807
78 Atlanta 46.27% 82,567
79 San Jose 45.88% 137,691
80 Miami 45.45% 67,755
81 San Francisco 42.55% 142,949
I created a conditional formula for these cities that indicated whether they were wealthy (>20% earning $100K, <25% earning $25K), poor (<12% earning $100K, >30% earning $25K), or dichotomous (>20% earning $100K, >30% earning $25K).
1 New York City 3,047,249 Middle Class
2 Los Angeles 1,314,198 Middle Class
3 Chicago 1,033,022 Middle Class
4 Houston 764,758 Middle Class
5 Philadelphia 574,488 Poor
6 Phoenix 515,701 Middle Class
7 San Diego 474,906 Wealthy
8 San Antonio 461,139 Middle Class
9 Dallas 449,597 Middle Class
10 San Francisco 335,956 Wealthy
11 Indianapolis 324,474 Middle Class
12 Columbus 318,454 Middle Class
13 Austin 316,337 Wealthy
14 Jacksonville 311,064 Middle Class
15 San Jose 300,111 Wealthy
16 Charlotte 282,082 Wealthy
17 Seattle 280,453 Wealthy
18 Detroit 271,050 Poor
19 Washington 257,317 Wealthy
20 Denver 254,181 Middle Class
21 Fort Worth 251,779 Middle Class
22 Memphis 246,495 Poor
23 Boston 245,857 Middle Class
24 Portland 244,803 Middle Class
25 Nashville 242,496 Middle Class
26 Louisville 239,592 Middle Class
27 Baltimore 238,392 Middle Class
28 Milwaukee 230,203 Poor
29 Oklahoma City 222,802 Middle Class
30 Albuquerque 217,256 Middle Class
31 Las Vegas 211,975 Wealthy
32 Tucson 207,313 Poor
33 El Paso 206,428 Middle Class
34 Kansas City 192,695 Middle Class
35 Atlanta 178,447 Dichotomous
36 Sacramento 173,938 Middle Class
37 Cleveland 170,464 Poor
38 Minneapolis 167,141 Middle Class
39 Tulsa 164,888 Middle Class
40 Virginia Beach 163,944 Wealthy
41 Omaha 163,014 Middle Class
42 Colorado Springs 162,295 Wealthy
43 Fresno 156,226 Middle Class
44 Oakland 154,854 Middle Class
45 Raleigh 154,677 Wealthy
46 Wichita 150,353 Middle Class
47 Miami 149,077 Poor
48 Saint Louis 140,439 Poor
49 Pittsburgh 134,953 Middle Class
50 Tampa 133,277 Middle Class
51 Cincinnati 132,591 Middle Class
52 Lexington 120,917 Middle Class
53 Toledo 120,406 Poor
54 New Orleans 116,638 Middle Class
55 Buffalo 112,844 Poor
56 St. Paul 111,534 Middle Class
57 Corpus Christi 109,160 Middle Class
58 Greensboro 107,770 Middle Class
59 St. Petersburg 106,755 Middle Class
60 Bakersfield 105,648 Wealthy
61 Lincoln 102,099 Middle Class
62 Fort Wayne 101,377 Middle Class
63 Madison 98,216 Middle Class
64 Orlando 97,661 Middle Class
65 Durham 90,717 Middle Class
66 Stockton 90,375 Middle Class
67 Birmingham 90,332 Poor
68 Winston-Salem 89,315 Middle Class
69 Reno 89,224 Middle Class
70 Baton Rouge 88,501 Middle Class
71 Spokane 87,714 Poor
72 Lubbock 86,074 Middle Class
73 Boise City 86,032 Middle Class
74 Rochester 85,589 Poor
75 Norfolk 85,061 Middle Class
76 Richmond 83,498 Middle Class
77 Des Moines 83,338 Middle Class
78 Knoxville 82,116 Poor
79 Montgomery 80,404 Middle Class
80 Tacoma 80,003 Middle Class
81 Little Rock 79,489 Middle Class
Jacksonville is not as "poor" as commonly thought, in fact it is one of the least poor cities in the US in terms of population earning less than $25K. I think if it can do two things: prevent the amount of poor from growing, and INCREASE the amount of high paying jobs, the city would be a little more golden. Jacksonville's city limits include much of its wealthier suburban areas, so frankly there probably should be more households earning $100K and more...certainly helps the tax base as these are your business managers investing in the city, these are people living in more expensive housing, buying more things, etc etc. Keeping the poor population astoundingly low also helps the tax situation as you don't need as much social support and higher taxes to support services.
Like simms3 has said, Jacksonville is a poor city? Hardly!
Which of these Florida cities â€" Orlando, Tampa, Miami or Jacksonville â€" would you suppose has the highest per capita income?
Which of the three would you guess has the least unemployment? How about the least drop in home prices in the last couple of years?
Finally, which of the three do you suppose is predicted to enjoy the greatest rate of job growth in the coming three years?
If you answered Jacksonville, correctly, to all of those questions, you may be among those who appreciate just how much this area has going for it.
Did you know that within our metro area, St. Johns County, Nassau and Clay are ranked as 4Th, 12Th and 21St in per capita income among the 67 counties in the state of Florida? Our Sawgrass Village area ranks a full 23 cities above Boca Raton in per capita income. Our surrounding communities fare very well in the rankings of 887 Florida towns and cities by income: Crescent Beach 119, Neptune 136, Atlantic 157, Fruit Cove 139 even St Augustine Beach at 169 is ahead of Fort Lauderdale AND Miami Beach. Jacksonville Beach at number 181, is also in the top 200 cities by income.
So next time someone tells you we come from Florida's poor city, smack them upside the head...
Great stuff, simms, thank you.
Well truth be told you can't really compare municipalities in NE FL to others around the state. Miami is basically a banana republic the size of the very original city limits of Jax from a century ago, but it is so unique as a land of opportunity for immigrants, a playground for foreign investment bankers, and a hotspot for the rich and famous.
Comparing Duval to Orange or Hillsborough Counties works, but comparing one gated community to all of Boca does not.
When I look at secondary cities, mainly in the TX/AZ/CA/NV metros, I notice this is where the wealth base is, yet these secondary cities are close enough to their primary cities as to be equivalently situated within Duval County. Therefore my conclusion is that a large city like Jacksonville, which incorporates its swaths of wealthy suburban areas, too, in addition to the inner city, should have a higher percentage of wealthy households. The reality is that far outlying areas attract all the wealth in Jacksonville, not inner ring burbs, the inner core, or even the core county.
This appears to also be true for some of Jacksonville's former peers such as Indy, Nashville, Louisville, and OKC, but is not the case for Charlotte.
If you were to look for some sort of trend corresponding the success of cities to the amount of wealthy and poor people, you could probably spot a trend that the most successful cities attract their wealth base to the city center and sadly keep out most of the poor. It doesn't take a lot of money to run a rural area, but it's very expensive to upkeep and maintain a successful city. Tax base is important and the wealthy are the foundation of the base, not only personally with their expensive residences and higher spending habits but also the companies they manage/work for, while the poor eat up resources in the form of social programs.
Jacksonville benefits from a small poor population, but it doesn't have a large tax base. There's the missing link: increase the tax base by attracting higher paying jobs to the city and work to keep those employees within the city limits instead of PVB, SJC, Nassau/Amelia Island or Clay/Fleming Island.
The problem with those figures is that it ranks households, not income for an average job/position. If you have two working parents and some of the kids working, which is very common around here, the 'household' doesn't look poor on paper, but in reality it's a different story with however many mouths they have to feed. A 'household' of one or two people earning $50k or $60k is relatively well-off here, the same income for a household with, say, 6 kids, and you're back to poor in reality even though you look OK on paper. That's why these blanket 'household' comparisons are bunk, 'household' probably means something entirely different here than in Boston or San Francisco, namely I am guessing we have more people per household.
Folks in Jacksonville have a lot of kids relative to other places, and from anecdotal/personal observation they seem to be having them awfully early. Which I guess would tend to indicate that a decent chunk of folks are causing their own problems. Call me nuts, but I think it's irresponsible to have multiple kids when you can barely afford to support yourself, and yet I see so many people doing exactly that here. I personally have no kids, and I won't until I know I can afford to support one. I already make multiples of what most people around here with a bunch of kids make, and I still know enough to know I can't support a child adequately. You have to set money aside for lower edcuation and then college, health insurance, babysitters, transportation, the list is endless. It's basically unfair to the child to turn out another blue-collar worker into a world with dwindling opportunities for them.
Although, to quote judge smails, I guess the world needs ditchdiggers too.
Thanks Simms for the list. Yeah, that's a common myth that Jax is poor; I knew that had to be offbase. I'm glad that you cleared that up. It seems like the common theme of what makes cities wealthy are banking, and technology with companies like Dell, Intel, Bank of America, Wells Fargo etc.
My biggest problem with Jacksonville and jobs is that the local media and government and chamber always cheerleads these small improvements to make it seem that Jacksonville is the up and coming city in the world. Add that to the local population that reads Jacksonville is taking New York jobs in the headline and they now think everything we're doing is right and we're going to beat NYC so nothing should change. That's dangerous. Jacksonville has a very long history of quitting in the middle of a job (Skyway, Tom Coughlin, Downtown, Courthouse, etc) just when things could have been better.
The numbers and types of jobs I'm seeing come to Jacksonville are average. Yet I see events like this http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=15073.0 tout these things as the major economic drivers. They aren't. They are normal day to day job operations and not a sign that continuing the status quo is a good thing.
My pet peeve is that almost nothing is made or designed in Jacksonville. Not even my retirement investments (except a token share of CSX) come from Jacksonville! Jacksonville can do better.
Quote from: stephendare on July 04, 2012, 01:24:16 PM
Quote from: I-10east on July 04, 2012, 12:15:28 PM
Quote from: stephendare on July 04, 2012, 10:43:23 AM
meh. I-10 is a bit of a dimwit, imho.
He generally thinks that any and all discussion about how to improve the inner city threatens or condemns his home out in the suburbs somewhere---a bizarre fixation that no one has ever tried to either encourage or discourage. As Dorothy Parker once famously said, "You can lead a horticulture, but you can't make her think."
Thanks for the kind words. You say that I'm anti-inner city, that's laughable; I've basically lived nearly my entire life in dense urban environments. In fact, during MJ chat about improving the inner core, I tend to sit back and observe, because I've never claimed to know the intricacies of urban development; What I do know is that the municipal government has to run an entire city, not only DT like you think, talk about a bizarre fixation. I guess that you would be for deconsolidating the city so that ALL of the time and energy can be devoted to the precious lil' urban core. I LOVE urban development more than you would like the think, but I don't have a temper tantrum whatever something profitable is added to the burbs either (like the SJTC). The difference between me and you is that I try to be 50/50 urban/suburban, and you are 100% urban minded total tunnel vision, which isn't realistic for Jax, let alone any city.
hmm.
this post is kind of proof in the pudding I 10.
I said that you considered pro inner city posts as a condemnation of your suburban address and then followed it up with a statement that you had no reason to feel that way based on the editorial board.
Where in my statement did you find that I accused you of being 'anti inner city'?
I didn't. and if you spent more time reading what is actually said rather than projecting what you suspect that other people secretly think, you would probably get more out of these forums.
Go, Stephen!
^^^Whatever dude. Stephen said that I think that I think that urban development 'threatens' suburban life, that's so contradictory because it's vice-versa, he thinks that anything suburban threatens urban life. Stephen will now try to spin what he said earlier in 3...2...1...
^^^
Quote from: stephendare on July 04, 2012, 10:43:23 AM
He generally thinks that any and all discussion about how to improve the inner city threatens or condemns his home out in the suburbs somewhere---
The way it's phrased, it's as if I'm against improving the inner city; No you do not say 'I'm anti-urban' verbatim, but you might as well had. I don't even consider where I live as 'the suburbs', on freaking Lenox Ave, not exactly Argyle Forest. I know that most of yall think that anything west of Riverside in 'the suburbs', but if you was to say I live in 'the suburbs' while referring to Lenox, most people would look at you like you're crazy. Sometimes when the truth is revealed (like the moaning about low paying jobs) it strikes a nerve with people.
^^^Yeah, play the classic befuddled role.