Metro Jacksonville

What's going on with this?  Did they really write a citation for a pile of mulch?

hm. a pile of mulch vs code enforcement... at least the mulch doesn't stink.

Pat Todd's son was putting a raised bed garden on a lot, and MCCD came and took all the beds and mulch.  Yeah, those gardens are dangerous!

Quote from: Debbie Thompson on July 09, 2012, 01:30:51 PM
Pat Todd's son was putting a raised bed garden on a lot, and MCCD came and took all the beds and mulch.  Yeah, those gardens are dangerous!

Have to love code enforcement, they'll get all worked up about a garden and some mulch, but won't do anything about a vehicle that hasn't moved in years because the tag is not facing the street nor will they do anything about a house with a mosquito farm that used to be a pool in their backyard because they cannot see the pool. 

Can we cite the City for not maintaining the alley's? or should I send them a bill for my labor and wear and tear on my equipment?

Quote from: Debbie Thompson on July 09, 2012, 01:30:51 PM
Pat Todd's son was putting a raised bed garden on a lot, and MCCD came and took all the beds and mulch.  Yeah, those gardens are dangerous!

They can't do that. They can cite it I guess. They can't take it....

Yeah, they cited the mulch pile!  Cause they are outta their freakin minds!  Cite the tax payers - drive them out of town.  They called the mulch "debris."  Is it only "debris" when its in a pile a week after delivery or is it still "debris" after we spread it on the walkways????

Morons.  I am tempted to just leave it.  Screw the city and the waste of my tax money paying these idiots.

There isn't a community garden in this city that doesn't have a big mulch pile at least 6 times a year!

My question is... just who the heck are they citing?  Its a community garden.  Are they citing the community?  Who specifically owns the mulch? (dont answer)

Video of Code Enforcement officers breaking a gate to enter a property without permission.

http://www.youtube.com/v/Eqe3t8qbhIA?version=3&hl=en_US

That's insane.  Why do they have such a vendetta against Springfield?  I haven't seen them once in my neighborhood. 

I have, on several occaisions, seen The City cite itself on properties owned by the city. How does the City collect a fine from the City?

Where exactly was this?

Liberty Street.

Hmmm, the trash in the yard is why they are there. I spoke to the owner 2 weeks ago about the trash and asked if I could help in any way. He declined. Not sure why. I feel for this house now. It will be in codes crosshairs. It is a neglected house and the owner does not seem to care. They have acually been in Springfield a long time and has a biz here. I just don't understand.

IloveIonia and I went over and spoke to the owner yesterday.  He is a very nice guy.  He has had medical issues lately.  He was doing work on the house and code told him he wasn't moving fast enough and they started fining him $50/day so he basically gave up.  The trash is being thrown in the yard by a previous employee who is kind of crazy.  The owner has discussed it with the police.  A neighbor has seen the previous employee throw the trash in the yard really quickly then run down the street.

Bottom line is the owner tried to work on some of the issues but he wasn't moving quickly enough so instead of helping they slapped a $50/day fine on him so he just gave up.  If he had $50/day to spend he could fix the house up in no time.  Now code is breaking onto the property to find other piddly stuff to add to the case file to eventually make a case to tear the house down.

I know the house (I didn't take the video, just posted it here). The front yard is very messy. But code can see that, take pictures of it, without breaking the fence. And I doubt people will start removing only trash now the door is open. The daily fines do nothing but demoralize owners.

Someone should send that to the local news channels and TU.

Since the gate is broken now, I may just clean the trash up myself..... about 4:15ish.....hint,hint   

02roadking: Excellent idea... (I am out of town... but I hope others will get the hint)

Gate is not broken and is padlocked. If someone would get a key, I'll get the trash. You know, private property and all.

thanks for trying!

Its not broken.  The city hammered the studs out of the brackets then put them back in because the gate was padlocked and they couldnt just walk in.

The owner will allow us in to clean-up.  avs and I visited him yesterday I can call him ahead of time.  I told him I'd go over in a day or so if he was unable to get over there.  I also told him I'd make him a special (insert heart here) "No Trespassing" sign.  I can pick up the key from him: he has trouble getting around.  roadking: I sent you a text.  unless you went over already?  sorry if so, I was at Dancy.

Quote from: avs on July 10, 2012, 02:02:02 PM
IloveIonia and I went over and spoke to the owner yesterday.  He is a very nice guy.  He has had medical issues lately.  He was doing work on the house and code told him he wasn't moving fast enough and they started fining him $50/day so he basically gave up.  The trash is being thrown in the yard by a previous employee who is kind of crazy.  The owner has discussed it with the police.  A neighbor has seen the previous employee throw the trash in the yard really quickly then run down the street.

Bottom line is the owner tried to work on some of the issues but he wasn't moving quickly enough so instead of helping they slapped a $50/day fine on him so he just gave up.  If he had $50/day to spend he could fix the house up in no time.  Now code is breaking onto the property to find other piddly stuff to add to the case file to eventually make a case to tear the house down.

Spot on.  He's lived here since the 1981.  Nice man.  Very atune to the neighborhood.  He needs support and wishes to move back into the house (which by the way is NOT condemned) but it does need a few fix-its to make it comfortable.  His daughter recently moved back out to the west coast so he lost his support system. 

Quote from: avs on July 10, 2012, 05:12:07 PM
Its not broken.  The city hammered the studs out of the brackets then put them back in because the gate was padlocked and they couldnt just walk in.

Movedsouth said it was broken. If it is not broken what is the issue? Tresspassing? I would hate to look at a yard filled with trash everyday and am glad a city agency is responsible for investigating it.

Did you read the whole thread??? its not broken - the city took it off the hinges.  that's breaking and entering and trespassing.  Then put it back on when they left.  The city is not allowed to do that.  They cant come on a person's property without permission. 

The trash issue is stated in another post - read the whole thread.  Get the whole story.

This type of behavior, illegal entry of personal property by a government official,  does not originate from the workers bees, but from the top.  As long as the current department head is there, this is the type of thing that will happen.  She is the queen bee and so she is never wrong. The only way to get a MCCD that actually helps people instead of hindering them at every step is change from the top.

While there are certainly those who own these houses and do not want to do the right thing by them, how many times do we have to hear that an owner was doing the right thing, even if stumbling at it a bit, and MCCD, with the blessings of the department head, made it all but impossible to continue and certainly demoralized the owners to the point of giving up.  And then, later on, MCCD will use that giving up against the house to help tear it down.

Change the top and the worker bees will learn new ways or be forced to leave.

Code used tools to bang open and de-hinge the gate to enter the property.  The gate WAS locked and secure.  ANd there is way more the to the story. 

Strider you are right. Changing the top person always filters down and I think the city can find a better person than the current code enforcement director. BUT I applaud the city for investigating a homeowner who litters their trash. I drove past that house on liberty street last month and it the trash was there. BUT AGAIN I do not think they should be able to trespass.

Again, get the whole story, read the whole thread.

QuoteIloveIonia and I went over and spoke to the owner yesterday.  He is a very nice guy.  He has had medical issues lately.  He was doing work on the house and code told him he wasn't moving fast enough and they started fining him $50/day so he basically gave up.  The trash is being thrown in the yard by a previous employee who is kind of crazy.  The owner has discussed it with the police.  A neighbor has seen the previous employee throw the trash in the yard really quickly then run down the street.

The home owner isn't littering his trash. He is a neighbor trying to deal with a vandal.

Why is this important?  Why does it matter to this neighborhood, or this city, that the government forces its way onto a property to, in essence, "take" it.  Don't be fooled, that is what is happening here.  Code is building a case against this house to fine it, to take property away from the owner.  And why?  To save it?  Heavens no. 

To justify its (the government's) existence.  We know where this house will end.  It will be rewarded to some demo contractor who has behaved himself and needs a cookie.

Gobble, it eats more of its precious historic stock every day.  Gobble.

(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/sheclown2/codeat1626Ionia.jpg)

1626 Ionia -- today

this is a house with a rich MJ history:

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,9227.0.html

Quote from: sheclown on July 10, 2012, 06:55:27 PM
(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/sheclown2/codeat1626Ionia.jpg)

1626 Ionia -- today

this is a house with a rich MJ history:

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,9227.0.html

It should be noted that the current owners have done a great job in repairing the carriage house.  And they will do the same thing for the main house.,  If MCCD lets them.  If they do not fine them because they are moving to slow or if they are allowed the real time it takes to do it.  If MCCD leaves them alone and does not break their spirit so that they give up and move to the 'burbs.

By and by, the guy from code was not at the carriage house delivering a thank you card for fixing the carriage house, he was there about fining the main house....

a friend made this  CARE request a little while ago:

(http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/sheclown2/stevescomplaint.jpg)

Let me just add, that if you go two blocks in ANY direction outside the Historic District there is worse! Much, Much worse that is not ticketed, not written up, not even looked at by code. How many CEs are there for the city? How could TWO be at the same house in Springfield- one breaking in and trespassing, the other "just driving by" (his own words). Do we have THAT many CEs that TWO happened to be on the same block at the same time, in a neighborhood that is roughly one square mile? If we do they need to cut the staff and use the funds for VICE as there are only like seven or eight of them for all of Duval county. Nope, Strider has it right, this is a vendetta against Springfield for actually stepping up and saving our historic stock by pushing the mothballing legislation.

I spoke to the owner of 1626 Ionia today after my conversation (this morning) with code enforcement.  He is a neighbor (the owner.)  I will state that he says he has a good relationship with this particular officer of code enforcement.  The owner is a bit more trusting than I, but I will also state the owner is a pastor of a church and a strong man of God. The owner has been upfront and honest through the process of his remodel of the carriage house and feels like he has been treated fairly.  In my opinion, the code enforcement officer was snooping as the owner states the officer has his phone number.  If the officer wanted to "inspect" the property an appointment should have been made.  And it was not.  But this is my summation.  Additionaly I would like to add we saved this house from demolition.  We knocked on the door of the owner somewhere over the bridge, convinced him to let us clean it out and board it up all at our own cost.  Then we encouraged the sale.  We do not own it or never did, but were strong advocates for it.  Took me a while and lots of creativity to get the owners phone number.  But it worked.

Here is a recap of the visit to 1626 Ionia today:  Code enforcement drives by my house towards 1626 Ionia (1 block north)  he parks and and I walk up the street.  I observe the officer walk past the front house through the trenches (dug for sewer and water lines) to the carriage house in the back.  He looks around the front of the property and gives one discrete knock at the door.  He moves immediately away and circles the carriage house to the north side, to the back next to the alley, and back around the south side to the front.  He then walks forward the same way he came in.  About half way up the property line I holler out something like.  "How's it going, everything okay?"  He walks toward me and I stick out my hand and introduce myself.  He shakes and tells me his first name.  I ask "Does (insert owner name here) know you are here?"  He states something like: "Well there is a special master's hearing coming up and I need pictures to present at the hearing."  I inform him I am aware of the hearing. (I do talk with the owner.)  I inform him the property has active permits and the owner is likely to provide those photos.  He states that he can't use those photos.  He needs his own.  I go on further about how I get he can walk onto a property just like any person can (you know go to the front door and knock.)  But I press about him not contacting the owner and circling the property and what the code says for him entering properties.  Then I bring up 8th/Liberty.  He denies.  We go on about mothballing.  (I'm just bringing him in all different directions.) He says he doesn't know what that is.  Everything is the owner's responsibility.  He's getting upset.  Asks if I am an attorney.  Says I look familiar like he's seen me before but can't place me.  Doesn't know why he has to explain all this to me when he doesn't even know who I am.  Talks about abatement that gives them the right to enter a property.  I ask about breaking into gates.  Deny.  Blames other officer "I don't know, that's on him."  Then a lightbulb turns on for him.  The music cues.  The spotlight shines.  He realizes I know more than he would like me to know.  That I have seen.  That I observe.  That I know names.  That I know people.  That I know owners.  That I know houses.  That I know codes.  That I know legislation.  That I fear not.  That I will ask.  That I will tell. His tone changes.  He states something about he just does what he is told.  That (in some degree) he agreed about helping.  I talked about contacting owners.  He talked about certified mail.  That they don't have phone numbers.  I talked about creativity.  I talked about how I have followed behind code and talked to the owners he claims they can't find.  And it goes on.  I basically state, get out of Springfield.  (and I didn't even use bad words.  not sure i even raised my voice.  nope.  didn't. totally civil.) 

if he was really there to help and get what he needed, he would have contacted the owner.  plain and simple.  set up a time to meet.  not just "show up."  bully and coward.  all he is doing is building a report for the special master to say something like "I went to the property, couldn't gain access, property still looks the same, owner not there, blah, blah, blah."  I know the game.  Been there.  Done that. 

Just want to make it clear.  We are watching.  Photographing.  Videotaping. 
In hindsight I wish I would have remembered to turn on the recorder to my phone.  Next time.

I also want to acknowledge the care request is the most classic move I have ever seen.  I fell out of my chair in hysterics when I saw that.  Big time kudos.

I additionally concur (obviously) about pushing mothballing.  The city needs to mothball our neglected properties.  That will "abate" the nuisance.  Preservation style.   

 

Unknown to us, there was an open code case on our house when we bought it.  I found out one day when I saw the inspector standing on the sidewalk staring at the back yard and asked who he was and could I help him.  He was looking for a shed he had written up because the roof was falling in.  I told him we had just bought the house, I'd had that shed and another torn down (we had 4!) and was unaware there was an open case on the house. 

However, point I'm making, is that he told me he couldn't come on the property without permission, and that's why he was standing on the sidewalk staring in.  So have the rules changed?  Can MCCD now come onto private property and walk all around taking pictures without permission?  That's different than walking up and knocking on the door to see if you happen to be home.  And just because you aren't, doesn't  mean anything.  They come during the hours most people are working.

1626 is really a wonderful "save" at this point.  PSOS absolutely did track down the former owner and knock on his door.  We then went to special masters with him and his wife, all the while trying to be helpful.  Then we went to code enforcement with him to get the special permission to be on the property.  He allowed us to clean out the inside and board up the windows.  Then code cited us for graffiti.  So we went back and painted the windows white. 

Nicole spent an easy hundred hours on the phone, talking to the former owner, to the current owner, advising, encouraging over the last couple of years.

As with all condemned properties in Springfield, Preservation SOS has an interest in this and knows more about each and every boarded up one than anyone.  Want to know about one?  Drop us a line, we'd be happy to share  info:

preservationsos@yahoo.com

Without exception, every house has a similar story regarding harassment from the city.  What began as an attempt to force homeowners to fix up their condemned properties has turned into a FREAKIN nightmare. 

And here, at this time and place, the city is so out of balance.

And will remain so unless WE do something.

We helped elect our mayor.  Email him and tell him what is going on.

Springfield... free yourself.  Speak up. 

Save the houses.

mayorbrown@coj.net

how about a team of code man followers...people designated to follow and film these guys to make sure they are doing their job and make sure they are'nt doing something nefarious....i wonder how the city would take to it's citizen following every code man to make sure everything is on the up and up

@GardenGuy: there are lots of neighbors keeping their eyes open for code, that is how we got the video.  Anyone who sees them doing something they shoudnt be please take a pic or video and post it.  We can build a case against them too

QuoteWe go on about mothballing.  (I'm just bringing him in all different directions.) He says he doesn't know what that is

Mothballing is legislation, if the code office isn't educating their officers in current legislation, then that is ineptness from the very top.  What else is this officer not aware of?  His salary is paid by our tax dollars, I don't want my money paying someone to enforce code who isn't educated on current code!

The only problem with your Care complaint is you sent it to the wrong department. Building Inspection is not Municipal Code Compliance.

Quote from: Garden guy on July 11, 2012, 08:09:19 AM
how about a team of code man followers...people designated to follow and film these guys to make sure they are doing their job and make sure they are'nt doing something nefarious....i wonder how the city would take to it's citizen following every code man to make sure everything is on the up and up

Just wondering but isn't filming or recording someone without their knowledge against the law? Just asking.

I don't think it's against the law as long as it is filmed from a public area, like a street or whatever. 

"legislation is always changing"
Was his response.
He knew what it was.
He was being an, well you know. He was "being."

Any word on the actual status of the garden?

If legislation is always changing then his job is mute.  He has no purpose and his citations mean nothing. 

@Bridgetroll:  The mulch was spread this past weekend, as we had intended to do.  The mulch pile was delivered a week and a half ago and with the heat and rain there had not been a chance to spread it.  Who knows if this will satisfy the code officer's lust to root out all "debris" though

A neighbor of the 8th and Liberty property just emailed me that the disabled owner of the property that is being vandalized is out there now cleaning up the trash. If anyone is in the neighborhood and can help him I am sure he would appreciate it.

roadking and i were going over today at 4:30. 
lemme go over and help.

Quote from: aclchampion on July 11, 2012, 09:00:46 AM

Quote from: Garden guy on July 11, 2012, 08:09:19 AM
how about a team of code man followers...people designated to follow and film these guys to make sure they are doing their job and make sure they are'nt doing something nefarious....i wonder how the city would take to it's citizen following every code man to make sure everything is on the up and up

Just wondering but isn't filming or recording someone without their knowledge against the law? Just asking.

The public has the right to film in public places.

In this case, everything occurred in plain view, and from a public street, it's perfectly legal.

FWIW: According to the Jacksonville.com salary database, the city has 32 code compliance officers. Jacksonville has roughly 885 sq miles, so thats about 1 officer per 27 sq miles, not 2/sq mile. One of the officers identified in the video is actually responsible for much more then Springfield, but it is probably hard to figure out how much of his time he spends in Springfield.

Lets not forget that this is in a large part the result of what some organizations in Springfield asked for. Code enforcement was seen as a means to clean up the blight without having to deal with a lot of messy "due process" issues. What we see now, it that this tactic resulting in more empty lots and blight then actual progress for Springfield. Many city leaders still appear to believe that these groups represent Springfield.

Code is over at Dancy Terrace now.  Springfield is less than 0.1% of all of Jacksonville.  With only 32 code officers why does Officer Danko spend his days patrolling Springfield?  His area extends well beyond the historic district. No one called in Dancy Terrace.  There are people over there mothballing several of the homes right now, completely legal and within what they are allowed to do.  So why is he over there now?  Why not visit the rest of his area outside of the historic district?

Quote from: movedsouth on July 11, 2012, 09:51:28 AM
FWIW: According to the Jacksonville.com salary database, the city has 32 code compliance officers. Jacksonville has roughly 885 sq miles, so thats about 1 officer per 27 sq miles, not 2/sq mile. One of the officers identified in the video is actually responsible for much more then Springfield, but it is probably hard to figure out how much of his time he spends in Springfield.

Lets not forget that this is in a large part the result of what some organizations in Springfield asked for. Code enforcement was seen as a means to clean up the blight without having to deal with a lot of messy "due process" issues. What we see now, it that this tactic resulting in more empty lots and blight then actual progress for Springfield. Many city leaders still appear to believe that these groups represent Springfield.

+1

(http://i1258.photobucket.com/albums/ii530/iloveionia/code.jpg)

Wednesday, July 11, 2012 approximately 11 a.m. 10th Street at Dancy Terrace.

Also: Due to the persistent and disgruntled trash dumper, 8th/Liberty was cleaned up today.

(http://i1258.photobucket.com/albums/ii530/iloveionia/8thliberty.jpg)

You sure this is Dancy Terrace? There is no such street in Jacksonville according to Google Maps. I found a Dancy Street but thats over in the westside.

Yes, we are sure. The street name is Redell Street.  Dancy Terrace was the original name, and somewhere along the line it was changed to Redell Court.  We changed it back by calling it Dancy Terrace again until it stuck!  LOL

Ah-ha! Redell St I found..No wonder I couldn't locate Dancy Terrace.

Had the chance to walk through Dancy Terrace a few days ago and it really reminded me of places like Haskett Court, Highland's Garden Village and Bungalow Terrace.

(http://cdn.theatlanticcities.com/img/upload/2011/12/12/housing_.jpg)

(http://www.wenzlauarchitects.com/images/photos/multifamily/ericksencottages/01-CW10-03024.jpg)

(http://la.curbed.com/uploads/2009.05.bc.jpg)

(http://www.vintageseattle.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/bungalow_court_03.jpg)

(http://hookedonhouses.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Alvin-and-Chipmunks-neighborhood-511x288.jpg)

(http://www.architizer.com/en_us/projects/pictures/the-waters/9486/69626/)

This is a real unique treasure in Jacksonville.  Are all of the units currently owned by one person that went belly up? What's the story??

Owned by different people.
We have 9 COAs out on 24 of them.

Quote from: iloveionia on July 11, 2012, 12:37:51 PM(http://i1258.photobucket.com/albums/ii530/iloveionia/8thliberty.jpg)

Is that the top of a column upside down in the yard?  Looks pretty ornate.

Thanks for cleaning up the trash! It is deeds like this, not $250/day fines, that motivate owners to take charge and fix up their houses.

Regarding the sculpture: It is a bit hard to see in the photo, but I believe this is a sculpture of an owl, not a column, that you see in the front yard.

This conversation makes me sick. Its the whole "I dont have to follow the rules if I dont want to" and "The home owners are just victime here" mindset that real;ly ticks me off. Im sorry but if theres a complaint about a big pile of mulch in a vacant lot and it needs to be spread just speard it and stop bitching. If you have a pile of trash in your yard for a month then take responsibility and clean it up. In the first example it looks like the garden owner is incredibly whiny. Please just spread the mulch and get on with it. I dont like how the city nickels and dimes me on my permitting but that the rule. Spread the mulch and move on but please dont bitch about the horrors of your experience. In the second example it looks like the owner realizes hes let trash sit in his yard for a while and has finally decided to pick it up. Congratulations and welcome to homeownership. If hes too ill to do it himself then ask a neighbor. Roadking said he asked last week and was told no thanks. Last but not least iloveionia inserts herself into a situation with city employee no reason while he does his job and then retells it like a soap opera. It doesnt even sound like the owner has a problem with it like you said. I AGREE WITH CHANGING CITY POLICY TO NOT DEMOLISH HOUSES IN A HISTORIC AREA BUT THATS ACCOMPLISHED THROUGH LEGISLATION AND WORKING WITH GOVERNMENT NOT BY HARRASSING CITY EMPLOYEES AND DRAMATIZING ROUTINE EVENTS.

It makes me sick too when neighbors help each other out when they are being unnecessarily harassed on their own tax dime. ::)

Nicole's good at "inserting herself" -- at old ladies birthday parties, at Make It Happens, at mothballing COAs. 

But even civility demands, at times, confronting others' harmful behavior.  And she is doing just that, along with dozens from the neighborhood, who are loudly proclaiming "we're not going to take it...anymore."

I suggest, Mr. John P., if you don't like the "drama," don't visit the site.

Inserting myself in front of code enforcement caused the following in the soap opera: 

The owner of the Ionia house (where I confronted Danko) called me today to get information about mothballing.  Why?  Because the code enforcement officer (Danko) suggested he do so after the two of them talked today, that it would be a good plan for his front house (mothballing.)  Danko may have actually picked up on the "let's help people concept" even if just for a moment. 

So while you preach personal responsibility, sometimes pushes are needed to help and support and get people (in this case code enforcement) to do the right thing.

And if people don't go out there and do the dirty work (literally) to help people, educate, and support we are all lost in this world.  Roadking cleans much if not all of that block and more at the BP area.  The owner only rejected his offer b/c he was getting out there to do it the rain just prevented it.  I would also imagine there is some pride involved too. 

You don't have to like any of it.  It doesn't matter.  There are those who will be empathetic and help, and those who will read online blogs and bitch.  I prefer to sweat it out (another literally) and help, it is just the right thing to do.

Springfield is a great place.  I love it.  Even with you in it.  :-)

much love stephen for your kind words.

...oh and Mr. John P....that "whiny gardener" could kick your ass, any day.

Quote from: acme54321 on July 11, 2012, 02:00:46 PM

Quote from: iloveionia on July 11, 2012, 12:37:51 PM(http://i1258.photobucket.com/albums/ii530/iloveionia/8thliberty.jpg)

Is that the top of a column upside down in the yard?  Looks pretty ornate.

That is actually a "rescued" piece of one of the Laura Trio buildings (you will notice the ornate parts at the top of the building are gone), or it could be from a building long gone. I used to know for sure, but have forgotten.  No doubt that it is a architectural piece. I think this one may match the one downtown just before you go over the Main Street bridge.

Quote from: John P on July 11, 2012, 03:27:51 PM
This conversation makes me sick. Its the whole "I dont have to follow the rules if I dont want to" and "The home owners are just victime here" mindset that real;ly ticks me off. Im sorry but if theres a complaint about a big pile of mulch in a vacant lot and it needs to be spread just speard it and stop bitching. If you have a pile of trash in your yard for a month then take responsibility and clean it up. In the first example it looks like the garden owner is incredibly whiny. Please just spread the mulch and get on with it. I dont like how the city nickels and dimes me on my permitting but that the rule. Spread the mulch and move on but please dont bitch about the horrors of your experience. In the second example it looks like the owner realizes hes let trash sit in his yard for a while and has finally decided to pick it up. Congratulations and welcome to homeownership. If hes too ill to do it himself then ask a neighbor. Roadking said he asked last week and was told no thanks. Last but not least iloveionia inserts herself into a situation with city employee no reason while he does his job and then retells it like a soap opera. It doesnt even sound like the owner has a problem with it like you said. I AGREE WITH CHANGING CITY POLICY TO NOT DEMOLISH HOUSES IN A HISTORIC AREA BUT THATS ACCOMPLISHED THROUGH LEGISLATION AND WORKING WITH GOVERNMENT NOT BY HARRASSING CITY EMPLOYEES AND DRAMATIZING ROUTINE EVENTS.

John P, besides needing to freshen up those read comprehension skills, you are just plain very wrong. But the city leadership must love you.  They hope and pray that everyone thinks the way you do.

The city leadership can and will ignore a room full of polite, quiet people all day long.  They can not ignore a room full of angry ones.  Unless we get angry over what the head of MCCD has her peole do, we will will not get the needed change.

Quote from: sheclown on July 11, 2012, 04:23:23 PM
Nicole's good at "inserting herself" -- at old ladies birthday parties, at Make It Happens, at mothballing COAs. 

But even civility demands, at times, confronting others' harmful behavior.  And she is doing just that, along with dozens from the neighborhood, who are loudly proclaiming "we're not going to take it...anymore."

I suggest, Mr. John P., if you don't like the "drama," don't visit the site.

+1!!!!  PSOS and their team are amazing!   Even though Springfield is not my "hood", I love the area  and respect and appreciate the hard work of the individuals who put their money (and their efforts) where their mouth is and get out and get it done and are , very definitely one by one saving the houses! 


There will always be the element of people in the community that sit and ridicule groups of people like the SOS team.  Move on and ignore them.   ::) They would rather be part of the problem than part of the solution , any day.

John P, the mulch was just delivered about week ago.  It rained for days, then it took a couple of days before people could go over there to spread it.  It hasn't been sitting there for a long time, and it will be spread in a day or two. This was just harassment.  Sustainable Springfield takes beautiful care of all their gardens in the neighborhood. They are amazing.  Given the astonishing amount of time MCCD devotes to our little one square mile, I'm sure they know that.

And if Ionia had not "inserted herself" into the situation and galvanized the preservationists in Springfield, who at that point had about given up in defeat from fighting so hard for so long and not getting anywhere, I can't imagine where we'd be today.  But I know for sure, wherever we would be, there would be fewer houses there with us!

Opinions are fine, everyone has them, but really, you should do a bit more legwork first.   

Fieldafm, I don't know whether to be excited or discouraged by the pictures you posted.  Excited because Dancy can look like that.  Discouraged because after so many years of trying, it still doesn't.  You and aclchampion come join the fight with us.  We are determined to save this treasure, and all the remaining Springfield history.  It's Jacksonville's first "suburb" and deserves to be protected, cherished and restored.

What a lovely street! I happen to do title searches on most of the foreclosures in Duval County and I am amazed at how many have ridiculous code enforcement liens. Some of them are as much as $150.00 per day and the Mortgage is subordinate to any County Liens. I would like to see the city waive liens in certain situations so that investors or whomever buys the property can bring it up to code and increase the property's value. It's a win, win for everyone.

Quote from: Debbie Thompson on July 11, 2012, 08:15:21 PM
John P, the mulch was just delivered about week ago.  It rained for days, then it took a couple of days before people could go over there to spread it.  It hasn't been sitting there for a long time, and it will be spread in a day or two. This was just harassment.  Sustainable Springfield takes beautiful care of all their gardens in the neighborhood. They are amazing.  Given the astonishing amount of time MCCD devotes to our little one square mile, I'm sure they know that.

[/quote

+1 love my friends at SS. 

Quote from: shellysu on July 11, 2012, 08:51:06 PM
What a lovely street! I happen to do title searches on most of the foreclosures in Duval County and I am amazed at how many have ridiculous code enforcement liens. Some of them are as much as $150.00 per day and the Mortgage is subordinate to any County Liens. I would like to see the city waive liens in certain situations so that investors or whomever buys the property can bring it up to code and increase the property's value. It's a win, win for everyone.

This is exactly what we are working on with CM Lumb. 

Shelly, actually it depends on when the lien and mortgage were recorded. Take a look at City of Palm Bay v. Wells Fargo Bank, 57 So.3d 226. In reality, COJ's liens will almost never have actual priority, both because their municipal ordinance saying they do is unconstitutional, and because COJ's home rule authority cannot trump the legislature's authority if it conflicts with a state statute. Which it does, 695.11, Fla. Stat. What's happening is that you guys are just playing it safe. That and COJ will basically lie to you and say their lien takes priority over everything up to and including the rapture, so it's easier for you to assume their claim is valid as a precaution rather than taking a risk. You pretty much have to be a lawyer to know they're full of it. But they are. If you give it a month or two the Florida Supreme Court is about to rule on this issue.

The municipalities saw this one coming and tried to sneak a senate bill through last year (SB1248), but it got killed, thankfully. As much power as the counties like to think they have in the legislature, it's amateur hour compared to the banking lobby.

The title insurance underwriter will make you pay it off when you sell or refinance. You have no choice.  I've done this for 18 years. I am 100% certain. Muni liens and taxes have to be paid in full in order for the property to be insurable.

I would love to see the legislature and the title insurance underwriter's change that btw! That would really make a difference. The hoa's are doing the same thing. Their liens revert back to the covenants and restrictions. They have you over a barrel and they know it.

Quote from: shellysu on July 11, 2012, 10:27:46 PM
I would love to see the legislature and the title insurance underwriter's change that btw! That would really make a difference. The hoa's are doing the same thing. Their liens revert back to the covenants and restrictions. They have you over a barrel and they know it.

Sort of the same deal, they say that, but it's not really true. There's abundant law on that point, Ecoventure, Busey Bank, etc. If the mortgage was recorded prior to July 1st of 2008, when 720.3085 took effect, then the mortgage has priority assuming the declarations have a subordination clause, and I've yet to see any that don't have that.

It drives me crazy. The HOA's know they have us over a barrel, so my investors just pay the lien. I've tried to argue, but it does no good. Especially when the Plaintiff in the foreclosure serves the HOA as an additional defendant and/or the HOA didn't even file a lien of record. You wouldn't happen to be an Attorney would you?

Quote from: shellysu on July 11, 2012, 10:20:05 PM
The title insurance underwriter will make you pay it off when you sell or refinance. You have no choice.  I've done this for 18 years. I am 100% certain. Muni liens and taxes have to be paid in full in order for the property to be insurable.

You can close then file a quiet title action and dispose of it before you seek title insurance, at least if you're paying cash. Speaking of HOAs, I just am about to wrap up one I have going down in the 7th circuit, the association already lost on its bullshit arguments by summary judgment, and the mediation's the end of this month to see what they're going to offer my client on his still-pending counterclaim for slander of title plus of course my bill since they already lost the first half of the case and their decs have a fee provision. The key is unconstitutional interference with a pre-existing contractual right. A state or local government can't come back and alter a contract after it was entered into, which is what you're doing when you pass a law that purports to change the priority of already-recorded mortgages.

But you guys in title take a different tack. It's become more about avoiding a fight than avoiding a risk, if that makes any sense. And frankly, that's all part of the problem, since it enables municipal governments and HOAs to run roughshod over people without resistance. People either put up with it, or else they can't get title insurance, or their lender won't close, etc., despite the fact that the claim is not legitimate. You're getting into some pretty rarified air with people who can afford to fight these battles, you basically have to have cash to close and sit until the case is resolved, because they're not getting a mortgage without a title policy, plus cash to cover the costs of litigation. The two clients I have who don't mind fighting these battles are both developers, most normal people just move on and buy something else. But this does happen, and is not uncommon. HOAs regularly claim all sorts of crap, that doesn't mean it's what's actually going to happen.

Quote from: shellysu on July 11, 2012, 10:55:20 PM
It drives me crazy. The HOA's know they have us over a barrel, so my investors just pay the lien. I've tried to argue, but it does no good. Especially when the Plaintiff in the foreclosure serves the HOA as an additional defendant and/or the HOA didn't even file a lien of record. You wouldn't happen to be an Attorney would you?

If the HOA failed to file a lien in the county where the property was located before the FJ of foreclosure was entered, then the HOA is screwed on enforcing those amounts against the property afterwards. Whatever accrues after that is a problem, obviously. Or, if the mortgage that was foreclosed was recorded before July 1, 2008, it has priority since 720.3085 hadn't taken effect yet, and the HOA is screwed. Or if the decs contain a subordination provision (they almost certainly do, or the bank wouldn't have lent in there to begin with in those days) and the decs were not amended after the enactment of 720.3085, then the mortgage was superior to the association lien and the HOA is screwed. If the bank foreclosed and then took title in its own name, the HOA is mostly screwed, since the lender isn't liable for past due assessments above the lesser of 12 months' assessments or 1% of the mortgage balance. For that one, it has to be the actual bank though, not an affiliated entity. You'd be surprised, half the time these HOA claims are bogus. They're just used to almost nobody challenging them. And yes, guilty as charged.

(http://m.preservationsos.org/images/CodeLetter.png) (http://m.preservationsos.org/images/CodeLetter.pdf)

I sent an email to Mayor Brown's office yesterday with the link to the video in it. Here is what I said and the response I got. I will keep you informaed as to what other responses I may recieve.

My email to Mayor Brown:

I want to bring a very disturbing situation to your attention that has plagued the Springfield neighborhood where I live for years. Code enforcement, at the direction of department leadership, is completely out of control. I bring the video at the link below as evidence, it clearly shows code enforcement employees breaking through a locked and secured gate to gain access to a property without permission of the property owner. If this were a private citizen performing this action it would be deemed a criminal offense and the person committing the crime could be prosecuted. Why then, is code enforcement given the latitude to so blatantly flaunt the law?

http://youtu.be/Eqe3t8qbhIA

But this is just one example of the corruption pervasive in the department. There have been cases of officers wandering onto private property taking photographs to use against property owners at Special Master hearings, citations for mulch at a community garden, and fast-tracking of buildings for demolition because code enforcement is trying to get around the neighborhood activists who are trying to save our historic stock.

The city should be applauding and assisting groups like Project Save Our Springfield rather than trying to circumvent their efforts. The city should be providing assistance to the officers of that organization in any way possible rather than forcing them to appear at hearings to try to save contributing historic structures. The city should be working hand-in-hand to save important structures rather than sneaking around and breaking into private property. I realize that there are property owners that are negligent and require the city’s intervention, however it must be done within the confines of the law and the vendetta code enforcement seems to have with Springfield must come to an end. If Jacksonville hopes to ever leave its “good ol’ boy” network, backwoods reputation behind, city officials at the highest level need to step up and speak out.

Jacksonville has the potential to become a jewel of the south, “The Bold New City of the South.” But, in order for that to happen, city agencies must stop targeting and start assisting.

I await your response.

The Mayor's response:

Dear Mr. Wisdom: 

Thank you for taking the time to make me aware of this situation. 
               
By copy of this email I have asked that Terrance Ashanta-Barker, director of our Neighborhoods Department, investigate this matter and respond directly to you. 

Again, thank you for writing.  Please do not hesitate to contact me if I can be of assistance in the future. 

Sincerely,
Alvin Brown
Mayor

Thank you!

Today's email from the city:

Mr. Wisdom,

I will investigate this matter and get back to you, shortly.   Take care and have a great day.

TAB

Terrance L. Ashanta-Barker, JD
Acting Director of Neighborhoods
City of Jacksonville (Ed Ball Building)
214 North Hogan Street, 8th Floor
Jacksonville, Florida 32202

Office: (904) 255-7238 | Fax: (904) 588-0519
Email: tashanta-barker@coj.net

If code enforcement were to mothball houses, instead of merely boarding, it could lien a house for the hard cost involved and perhaps get that "investment" returned.

Code could have a more "permanent" temporary solution and could have the historic planning commissioners take the burden of monitoring these houses off its hands.

The city and the neighborhood would save the house for a future owner and many future owners after that.

Code Enforcement and the city of Jacksonville could turn a major liability into a significant investment.

Nothing else could as significantly rid the neighborhood of blight and safety issues like mothballing the condemned properties.

And it could be done with a policy change.  And it could be done with less money than is currently spent. And it could be done tomorrow.

Save the houses.

Here is the latest from the city on the email I sent ot Mayor Brown. It seems to me that this is a lot of back-peddling and glossing-over of the situation. What do you think?

Mr. Wisdom,

Again, thank you for making us aware of this situation.  With regards to the to video you mentioned in your email, it is my understanding that the referenced video on You Tube entitled “Code Enforcement Breaking Code” is actually a video of a Contract Compliance Inspector employee temporarily disassembling â€" not breaking â€" the gate of a property for assessment purposes. 

On April 20, 2012, an anonymous citizen submitted a complaint to 630-CITY, regarding “overgrown property”. On April 23, 2012, a Code Compliance Officer cited the property for nuisance overgrowth and garbage/trash/debris.  To fulfill notice requirements to the owner of record, local ordinance requires that:  1) a notice placard be placed on-site, and 2) a notice be mailed to the owner of record. 

The required notice placard at the property and mailing of a certified Notice of Violation were made to the owner of record in April 2012.   In addition, MCCD provided time to correct violations prior to re-inspection on May 16, 2012.

Following the two forms of notification and the provision of time to correct violations, an officer verified outstanding violations on May 16, 2012, and forwarded the enforcement case to the division’s Contract Compliance section, which arranges cutting, cleaning, and debris removal by city contractor, as authorized by local ordinance, if the owner of record fails to correct violations.  Local ordinance states if termination of the public nuisance is not completed or commenced in a meaningful manner, such as hiring a contractor, or commencing significant and actual abatement activities, by the person within 15 days from the date of notice, the city may terminate the condition(s) and may contract with a private contractor to terminate it on behalf of the city.  The law does not contain provisions for general citizenry to enter privately-owned properties (not owned by same) for purpose of correcting outstanding code violations.

On Monday, July 9, 2012, during compliance follow-up activities someone “videographed” a Municipal Code Compliance Division (“MCCD”) employee at 1735 Liberty Street,  and later posted the video on YouTube, with the title, “Code Enforcement Breaking Gate.

As previously mentioned, the YouTube video from July 9, 2012 actually shows a Contract Compliance Inspector employee temporarily disassembling â€" not breaking â€" the gate to assess the entire site following a reported completion of work; the other employee is the area Code Compliance Officer, who initially cited property conditions during April 2012.  As shown within the video and the above photographs, the property is overgrown and contains excessive trash; the purpose of the property visit was to ensure completion of work to remove violations, which are blighting conditions, thus improving the community. The Contract Compliance Inspector verified required additional abatement work at the time and returned the work order to the contractor for completion.

Apparently, the videographer was not aware of the preceding information. 

Various city agencies enforce and/or administer specific portions of the Jacksonville Ordinance Code.  The city’s Historic Preservation Office administers the Mothballing Ordinance and may assist with questions related to same.

If you have additional questions regarding property safety/maintenance and zoning code enforcement, please contact us.

Have a good day.




Terrance L. Ashanta-Barker, JD
Acting Director of Neighborhoods
City of Jacksonville (Ed Ball Building)
214 North Hogan Street, 8th Floor
Jacksonville, Florida 32202

Office: (904) 255-7245 | Fax: (904) 588-0519
Email: tashanta-barker@coj.net

This is the problem with people. They go off half cocked not knowing what the facts are and spin the facts to for their perspective. It is human nature to form reality around your world view so it should be expected. I will send Mr. Ashanta-Parker and THANK YOU note for fully explaining the situation but no doubt this will still serve as a boogey man. Change the policy and dont harrass the employees.

It appears that Gonzo is the one off his rocker. Just jump down the city's throat with no regard!!!!

LOL these aren't facts.  "breaking" a gate and "breaking into a property" are 2 different things.  This is the city's attempt to deflect and try to redefine the situation and see if it sticks and the masses shut up.  Politics  101.

Quote from: avs on July 17, 2012, 09:33:32 AM
LOL these aren't facts.  "breaking" a gate and "breaking into a property" are 2 different things.  This is the city's attempt to deflect and try to redefine the situation and see if it sticks and the masses shut up.  Politics  101.

Appears they're taking a page straight out of the DART playbook:

1:  We want to raid this club.
2:  You can't without a warrant.
1:  The judge already said we couldn't get a warrant without hard evidence.  But I know they're doing bad things in there, you know, drinking, socializing.... probably find some of the evil reefer, too.
2:  I'll make a call to the Fire Chief, be outside at 10 when he enters for a surprise fire safety inspection.
1:  Thanks bro.  We'll see you in an hour.


1:  We need to get on the property but we can't unlock the gate.
2:  I have the authority to get on property using whatever means necessary.
1:  Could you just leave the gate open?
2:  I'll be there at 10, you just happen to show up at 10:05.
1:  Thanks bro.  I'll see you in an hour.

Quote from: mrmakersmark on July 17, 2012, 09:32:41 AM
It appears that Gonzo is the one off his rocker. Just jump down the city's throat with no regard!!!!

On the contrary, I have plenty of regard. But, the city has proven time and again that it feels superior to the very people who pay their salaries.

Non-Redneck states the case quite efficiently. The use of power is appropriate in some instances -- this was not one of them, though. It is the abuse of power that rubs me raw.

While our city is in the midst of a budget-crises, we are wasting tax dollars on reletively minor abatement issues. And, issues that citizens have offered to help abate at that! And yet, the city can only quote stale and ineffective codes rather than truly work with those who are willing to help.

MrMakersMark and JohnP, are you willing to be part of the solution or do you prefer to detract from the sidelines?

Quote from: Gonzo on July 17, 2012, 10:13:27 AMMrMakersMark and JohnP, are you willing to be part of the solution or do you prefer to detract from the sidelines?

+1

QuoteMrMakersMark and JohnP, are you willing to be part of the solution or do you prefer to detract from the sidelines?

++++1

Not to keep beating this horse but you all may not realize that Code Enforcement officers have right of entry under Fla Statute 518.123 (f). The Chief, or his authorized representative, shall have the right of entry upon real property while in the discharge of his duties in removing, terminating or abating a public nuisance under this Chapter.
And one more point. The officer was doing his job in an attempt to help clean up the neighborhood that those of you who live their obviously love. But yet when he is trying to help clean up the neighborhood, you spy on him, take pictures and report him for doing his job. I'm sorry, but I just don't understand that thought process. You complain they aren't doing their job. Then complain when they are. Go figure.

Quote from: aclchampion on July 17, 2012, 12:03:21 PM
Not to keep beating this horse but you all may not realize that Code Enforcement officers have right of entry under Fla Statute 518.123 (f). The Chief, or his authorized representative, shall have the right of entry upon real property while in the discharge of his duties in removing, terminating or abating a public nuisance under this Chapter.
And one more point. The officer was doing his job in an attempt to help clean up the neighborhood that those of you who live their obviously love. But yet when he is trying to help clean up the neighborhood, you spy on him, take pictures and report him for doing his job. I'm sorry, but I just don't understand that thought process. You complain they aren't doing their job. Then complain when they are. Go figure.

aclchampion,

It is difficult for those outside the neighborhood to understand why we are so upset with the way code enforcement acts. We have endured years of shoddy work, poor assessment, and uncaring destruction. We are, whether rightly or wrongly in your eyes, jaded.

Read through this thread and you will learn the types of things we have had to put up with. I have had personal experience with the city and their inspectors. It is not a pretty thing. I have also had experience with the city throwing stone in its own glass house. While they go about citing folks for minor compliance issues, they themselves allow their responsibilities to fall behind. To wit, my truck was crushed by a limb that fell from an oak three that was marked for removal by the city a full year before them limb fell.

Again, I urge you to read the thread. There are many concerned citizens that are willing to step up and help, but the city refuses that help. I ask you the same question I asked JohnP and Mrmakersmark before, are you willing to step up and be part of the solution or do you prefer to do as the city does and spout ineffective policy?

Go Gonzo. 

Code has too much power, too vague guidelines, and is using DART tactics to circumvent due process.

Gonzo I have read the thread...several times over. I do understand the frustration that some have voiced about Code Enforcement. My only point was that it seems the same people that are complaining about them doing their job are the same ones complaining that they don't do their job. I wasn't pointing fingers or defending the city in any way.
And since i don't live anywhere near Springfield, no I'm afraid I won't be coming over to help.

We need rules against sprawl, rules against development, rules, rules, rules....except when it applies to me and then these rules are crazy. LMAO

Well if you want to go strictly by the rules then read the rest of the statute - the owner has a right to refuse entry.

Besides, why is entry needed to cite some trash in a yard that is clearly visible from the street?????

Because they are fishing to find more against the property that isn't visible so they can build a file to have the house torn down.  A house in decent shape in a National Historic District.

Quote from: avs on July 17, 2012, 01:49:56 PM
Besides, why is entry needed to cite some trash in a yard that is clearly visible from the street?????

Because they are fishing to find more against the property that isn't visible so they can build a file to have the house torn down.  A house in decent shape in a National Historic District.

Exactly!

Don't get me wrong, I think code enforcement provides a valuable service when it is properly administered. But, like any other bureaucracy, it must be applied with common sense and proper diligence.
Had the city taken a few minutes to discuss the issue with the owner of the property in the video, they would have learned that he had health issues. They would also have learned that a disgruntled employee was dumping the trash.

While neither of those circumstances relieves the owner of keeping his property up, it does provide a footing for the city to offer leniency or assistance. I do not know what the owner’s health issues are, but having recently gone through a serious one in my family, I can tell you the furthest thing from my mind is dealing with harshly stated city notices. Instead they bring down the iron fist of fines. As someone else pointed out, if the owner had $50 a day, he could afford to pay to have the property taken care of in his absence. Fines do not work, the city has to learn that and get more creative in their abatement efforts.

The response from the city makes it clear that the letter of the law is all that matters, not the spirit of it. Code enforcement would better serve the community as a whole by going after the owners who willfully allow property to deteriorate, taking the property, moth-balling it and offering it at a fair price to someone who can and will restore it. Other cites do it, why doesn’t ours?

Like JSO, code needs a warrant.  Needs to have a reason that a judge signs off on.

Quote from: aclchampion on July 17, 2012, 12:03:21 PM
Not to keep beating this horse but you all may not realize that Code Enforcement officers have right of entry under Fla Statute 518.123 (f). The Chief, or his authorized representative, shall have the right of entry upon real property while in the discharge of his duties in removing, terminating or abating a public nuisance under this Chapter.
And one more point. The officer was doing his job in an attempt to help clean up the neighborhood that those of you who live their obviously love. But yet when he is trying to help clean up the neighborhood, you spy on him, take pictures and report him for doing his job. I'm sorry, but I just don't understand that thought process. You complain they aren't doing their job. Then complain when they are. Go figure.

I'm sorry, but there's a difference unsecured and secured property. They do not have the right to enter by force, that requires a warrant, the same as any other government/police officer would require. If it were secured, they have the right to request an inspection under that section, they do not have the right to simply break & enter as they see fit.

I'm not for taking properties away from dead-beat homeowners for exactly the reason of this thread.  I don't trust the powers that be to decide whose house gets taken away and whose doesn't.

We need a community based code enforcement board like there used to be -- for zones -- instead of one person, one special magistrate who works for the city and is deciding how much a citizen should pay the city.  I trust average citizens more than bureaucracy.

I am for code enforcement mothballing a property, following the guidelines and supervision of the historic planning commission and then placing a lien on the property should the owner refuse to take care of his property.  This would help code enforcement go from a punitive entity to a helpful one and would make tangible strides toward saving valuable historic properties.  With code enforcement and historic planning commissioners working together, Springfield could vastly change in terms of blight and quality of life without increasing any budget as we have discussed many times, mothballing is cheaper than demolition.

Problem with code is also the fact that it is "complaint-driven" .  It has been used by neighborhood organizations to attack those who oppose the policies of the organization as has been described many times on this forum. 

Complaint-driven agencies are ripe for abuse.  That is why if you make a false claim to Department of Children and Families or Immigration, there are stiff penalties.  Difference with code is that if you call and complain on your neighbor, the scope of code enforcement is so loose that anyone could find something wrong with any property.

So code becomes like this standing army. 

A standing army that can (most obviously) enter without due process.

Quote from: Gonzo on July 17, 2012, 02:08:02 PM
The response from the city makes it clear that the letter of the law is all that matters, not the spirit of it. Code enforcement would better serve the community as a whole by going after the owners who willfully allow property to deteriorate, taking the property, moth-balling it and offering it at a fair price to someone who can and will restore it. Other cites do it, why doesn’t ours?

Yes!!!  Exactly!!! 

Quote from: sheclown on July 17, 2012, 02:14:16 PM
I'm not for taking properties away from dead-beat homeowners for exactly the reason of this thread.  I don't trust the powers that be to decide whose house gets taken away and whose doesn't.

We need a community based code enforcement board like there used to be -- for zones -- instead of one person, one special magistrate who works for the city and is deciding how much a citizen should pay the city.  I trust average citizens more than bureaucracy.

I am for code enforcement mothballing a property, following the guidelines and supervision of the historic planning commission and then placing a lien on the property should the owner refuse to take care of his property.  This would help code enforcement go from a punitive entity to a helpful one and would make tangible strides toward saving valuable historic properties.  With code enforcement and historic planning commissioners working together, Springfield could vastly change in terms of blight and quality of life without increasing any budget as we have discussed many times, mothballing is cheaper than demolition.

Sounds reasonable to me!

I was going to do this long post quote the entire code to correct the idea that this officer had any right to breaking and entering on this private property, but I got bored.  The bottom line is that the code says the owner can refuse entry and then if they still want to enter, the chief (or her minion) must get a judge to agree to allow MCCD to step all over the owners property rights.  That right to refuse does not change because that bag of trash is left there.  It takes lots more paperwork for that to happen.  Besides, the right to entry is for abatement - did you see either of the offending officers pick up even one piece of trash?

This is a case of a city employee breaking and entering onto private property.  People often go to jail for that. 

Another thing is we have information from the owner that states someone else was dumping the trash and the police have been involved to some extent.  This implies the real possibility that the trash was dumped, cleaned up and dumped again so this it is not one continuous violation but several new ones.  Perhaps if MCCD's chief actually believed in helping not hindering, a line of communication would be there and this would have never happened.

But of course, from personal experience, she would rather forget that a person ever cooperated so that she can state that the owner just didn't try to work with MCCD when it comes time for those fines to be levied.  Change is needed and it is needed from the top.

Quote from: John PThis is the problem with people. They go off half cocked not knowing what the facts are and spin the facts to for their perspective. It is human nature to form reality around your world view so it should be expected. I will send Mr. Ashanta-Parker and THANK YOU note for fully explaining the situation but no doubt this will still serve as a boogey man. Change the policy and dont harrass the employees.

Nobody went off half-cocked as you suggest. As others have stated over and over, nobody has the right to forcibly enter a property without a warrant, and the video clearly shows those city employees entering the property by force...that's NOT legal. If it weren't for the citizen that videotaped this illegal act, then it would be only hearsay, the tape is proof.

The employees harass the residents, in fact, they seem to prey upon those that cannot pay those rolling fines, which results in the city taking down, yet another part of the historic fabric that defines the historic district. The city has the mothball legislation, which would properly secure an empty house, but they have yet to mothball one.

I find it amazing that the code enforcement officer had no problem forcibly entering a piece of property over trash when in my neighborhood a few years ago there was a pool in a backyard that was basically a mosquito breeding ground and you couldn't go outside without getting numerous mosquito bites.  A woman whose yard backed up to the home called the city and the enforcement official wouldn't even look over the fence from the backyard of the person who filed the complaint and had the official gone around to the front of the home there was a section of fence that had decayed to the point where you could easily see through it and see the pool. 
Eventually the home was foreclosed on and someone bought it and fixed the pool. 

Quote from: aclchampion on July 17, 2012, 12:03:21 PM
Not to keep beating this horse but you all may not realize that Code Enforcement officers have right of entry under Fla Statute 518.123 (f). The Chief, or his authorized representative, shall have the right of entry upon real property while in the discharge of his duties in removing, terminating or abating a public nuisance under this Chapter.
And one more point. The officer was doing his job in an attempt to help clean up the neighborhood that those of you who live their obviously love. But yet when he is trying to help clean up the neighborhood, you spy on him, take pictures and report him for doing his job. I'm sorry, but I just don't understand that thought process. You complain they aren't doing their job. Then complain when they are. Go figure.

Thank you.
CHANGE THE POLICY BUT DONT HARRASS EMPLOYEES.

Quote from: John P on July 18, 2012, 10:21:14 AM

Quote from: aclchampion on July 17, 2012, 12:03:21 PM
Not to keep beating this horse but you all may not realize that Code Enforcement officers have right of entry under Fla Statute 518.123 (f). The Chief, or his authorized representative, shall have the right of entry upon real property while in the discharge of his duties in removing, terminating or abating a public nuisance under this Chapter.
And one more point. The officer was doing his job in an attempt to help clean up the neighborhood that those of you who live their obviously love. But yet when he is trying to help clean up the neighborhood, you spy on him, take pictures and report him for doing his job. I'm sorry, but I just don't understand that thought process. You complain they aren't doing their job. Then complain when they are. Go figure.

Thank you.
CHANGE THE POLICY BUT DONT HARRASS EMPLOYEES.

Are you saying, it is okay for them to harass us?  Enter our secured properties at will? just do as they please? but don't harass them.


Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

I think that the Mayor should look into eliminating the Code Enforcement department as part of his budget cuts.

Quote from: Timkin on July 18, 2012, 01:20:53 PM

Quote from: John P on July 18, 2012, 10:21:14 AM

Quote from: aclchampion on July 17, 2012, 12:03:21 PM
Not to keep beating this horse but you all may not realize that Code Enforcement officers have right of entry under Fla Statute 518.123 (f). The Chief, or his authorized representative, shall have the right of entry upon real property while in the discharge of his duties in removing, terminating or abating a public nuisance under this Chapter.
And one more point. The officer was doing his job in an attempt to help clean up the neighborhood that those of you who live their obviously love. But yet when he is trying to help clean up the neighborhood, you spy on him, take pictures and report him for doing his job. I'm sorry, but I just don't understand that thought process. You complain they aren't doing their job. Then complain when they are. Go figure.

Thank you.
CHANGE THE POLICY BUT DONT HARRASS EMPLOYEES.

Are you saying, it is okay for them to harass us?  Enter our secured properties at will? just do as they please? but don't harass them.


Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Here's the complete section that was refereed to above.

QuoteSec. 518.123. - Right of entry; notice of inspection.

(a)
The Chief is authorized to enter any building, structure or premises at any reasonable time for the purpose of performing his or her duties under this chapter. If any owner, occupant or other person in charge of a building structure or premises subject to the provisions of this Code refuses, impedes, inhibits, interferes with, or obstructs lawful entry or access to any part of the building, structure or premises where an inspection authorized by this chapter is sought, the Chief may seek an inspection warrant pursuant to Florida law.
(b)
At the time of inspection, the Chief shall properly identify himself and shall advise the occupant of his right to refuse entry to the nonpublic areas of the building, structure or premises. He shall further advise the occupant that an inspection warrant may be obtained if entry is refused.
(c)
The Chief shall develop appropriate documents by which to serve notice in an area in which he intends to carry out a scheduled area wide inspection program. These documents shall include a notice to be delivered to each household or owner which shall include the following:
(1)
A summary of the requirements of this Chapter for which an inspection is being made to determine compliance therewith.
(2)
A statement advising the occupant or owner that entry for the purpose of inspection may be denied.
(3)
A statement that a notice of violation issued pursuant to the inspection may be appealed to the city's Special Magistrate.
(d)
At the time of inspection, the Chief or their duly authorized representative shall properly identify himself and shall advise the occupant or owner verbally of all the provisions of subsection (a) of this Section which were required to be included in the notice. Where the inspection is based upon a complaint or probable cause, a written notice of intent under this Section shall not be required.
(e)
In cases of emergency where extreme hazards are known to exist which may involve the loss of life or severe property damage, the limitations of this Section shall not apply.
(f)
The Chief, or duly authorized representative, shall have the right of entry upon real property while in the discharge of his duties in removing, terminating or abating a public nuisance under this Chapter.

Frankly, the city passes laws all the time that are not truly enforceable.  They give the chief the right to enter, but as you can see, the reality is they can not.

John P and aclchampion, both of you are the perfect resident in the cities opinion,  believe what they tell you and never question,  Believe that the employees can do not wrong and never question them.  Believe they have the right to break and enter your property anytime and for the smallest of reasons.

The truth is, if they are allowed to do things like this breaking and entering without question or consequences, they will be entering your home and making sure you are using approved sexual positions before you know it.

Quote from: RexMontana on July 18, 2012, 02:17:29 PM
I think that the Mayor should look into eliminating the Code Enforcement department as part of his budget cuts.

It certainly appears most of the money code receives is going just to Springfield, certainly not fair.

[quote author=strider link=topic=15473.msg288933#msg288933 date=1342635952 The truth is, if they are allowed to do things like this breaking and entering without question or consequences, they will be entering your home and making sure you are using approved sexual positions before you know it.
[/quote]

Apparently this city council is fine with sexual positions as long as they are "hetero" and not of the "beasteality" type.  I do, however, forsee them entering without a warrant if there is suspicion of anything else.  ;)

I don't have an opinion on this specific issue/case, but I think it's important to keep an eye on the ball.

The most important thing impacting this issue, and others like it, is the work that Councilman Lumb is doing, resulting from the Town Hall meeting he hosted several months ago.

Hopefully we'll have something tangible from his office this year. Fingers crossed.

Yes, the answer lies in a change in policy.

CM Lumb is working on (with the help of our wonderful and talented Chris Wickersham)... a plan.

At the heart of it, lies mothballing.

Spent hours today with code enforcement and truth be told, they were great.  Prado and O'Laughlin are really good guys.  Homeowner got crazy with a hammer and removed structural support totally compromising his house.  Not sure if we can save it or not.  It may end up coming down as an emergency if there are not funds to adequately brace it.  At least the back porch area will need to be removed. 

Big freakin' mess.

Walked away with positive feelings for code, though, and that is a good thing.

Thanks Gloria! Great to know that Code Enforcement can be talked to at times. What can we do to save this house?

Quote from: movedsouth on July 26, 2012, 05:23:39 PM
Thanks Gloria! Great to know that Code Enforcement can be talked to at times. What can we do to save this house?

Well, the homeowner (who has lived in the house for 26 years) will need to do substantial amount of work just to stabilize.  The house is now condemned so a contractor will have to bring the house to a certificate of occupancy.  Additionally there will have to be an electrical safety inspection.