Don't get too excited, but I heard this morning a McDonalds along with a Family Dollar (this one we knew about) will be built at the corner of Market St and State St, where the Warren Motors currently exisit.
I would be curious to see the site plan and the design of the McDonalds.
Well it is good to see national companies vet and show confidence in downtown. State and Union streets will likely continue to be the main draw. Nice to support the core.
Has Warren Motors closed? I havent been by recently but last I remember it was still open and operating.
If it's on state street, I'm sure they will just be more suburban-style layouts.
^Bingo. That site is outside of downtown's official borders (wrong side of the street). Unless they are going to PUD that site to not comply with our "suburban" zoning code, I'd suspect a suburban oriented site plan.
Warren Motors is still open. Of course it will be suburban style, but so is everything else along that stretch. I am not going to complain though.
I remember hearing awhile back that warren motors was shutting up shop downtown. Looks like it may be true. I hope not though they been there for a VERY long time. I bought a car from there 10 years ago.
Here is an article on this:
http://jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=536825&mailer=062612
Well Ill be damned. Development in Downtown. I know some people will be Debbie downer about this, but this coupled with the 7-11 is great for this corridor of downtown
Remember DD there is no demand for anything Downtown. No one lives, works or plays there and no one wants to be there.
Hmm. Not surprising. State & Union are ideal retail streets, given the traffic count on them. They allow you to not only serve the downtown market, but Springfield, Durkeeville, and the Eastside as well. If we were smart, this is the area we'd be focusing some extra urban strategic planning efforts on.
It may be time brush off this article I wrote about their potential six years ago, during MJ's early days:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2006-dec-urban-connectivity-state-union
Quote from: fsujax on June 26, 2012, 10:26:35 AM
Remember DD there is no demand for anything Downtown. No one lives, works or plays there and no one wants to be there.
LOL youre funny ;D
I can't wait for the Family Dollar. Those modern steel buildings look just great, and they are so economical!
Quote from: acme54321 on June 26, 2012, 10:37:40 AM
I can't wait for the Family Dollar. Those modern steel buildings look just great, and they are so economical!
Yeah we all know family dollars are ugly blah blah blah. Weve already beat that thread in the ground when we first heard the news of it being built.
I can care less if the layout of the Family Dollar, and Mc Donalds are so called 'suburban' style, or as I call it 'regular' style (It's not like they are deep in the heart on Laura St or something; Regular style planned buildings draw people, not deter them with bad parking situations) my beef is with all of these Family Dollars being built on the exact same corridor, with the most recent being the one on Kings Rd and Myrtle. Are we gonna be renamed Family-Dollarville?
Family Dollar and a McDonalds,, ok. I'm sure they'll line up for this.
Quote from: I-10east on June 26, 2012, 02:42:17 PM
I can care less if the layout of the Family Dollar, and Mc Donalds are so called 'suburban' style, or as I call it 'regular' style (It's not like they are deep in the heart on Laura St or something; Regular style planned buildings draw people, not deter them with bad parking situations) my beef is with all of these Family Dollars being built on the exact same corridor, with the most recent being the one on Kings Rd and Myrtle. Are we gonna be renamed Family-Dollarville?
Its not here I-10. Its across the country. The economy has driven up the demand for stores like dollar general and family dollar. I mean we dont complain about Wal mart's being on every other block. In general for what Im seeing (as I expected) everyone pretty much doesnt care. But here my questions, would you rather see this, or absolutely nothing downtown? To me, if I stayed downtown, I would be exctied that things of that nature are in such a short distance. I mean seriously, the only fast food joint we have downtown is burger king, and the only grocery store is winn dixie. Other than that, you have to drive way down main street, or go in the opposite direction into riverside for common amenities.
^^^Actually people do complain about Wal-Mart (not you and me) besides, Wal-Marts aren't lined up in a relatively short stretch of corridor in Jax. I just wish that they would switch it up a little bit with so many Family Dollars being in such a short stretch of urban area, it's like a monopoly or something; There's nothing wrong with a lil' competition with a Dollar General (I understand that it's basically the same store) or a Dollar Tree being thrown in there. I think the Mc Donalds is a good fit. I agree that something is better than nothing, and both Mc Donalds, and FD will be very profitable, as you mentioned with hardly nothing being in that immediate area.
Quote from: acme54321 on June 26, 2012, 10:37:40 AM
I can't wait for the Family Dollar. Those modern steel buildings look just great, and they are so economical!
It may not be ideal, but it's better than nothing. At least something is happening.
Quote from: I-10east on June 26, 2012, 03:16:30 PM
^^^Actually people do complain about Wal-Mart (not you and me) besides, Wal-Marts aren't lined up in a relatively short stretch of corridor in Jax. I just wish that they would switch it up a little bit with so many Family Dollars being in such a short stretch of urban area, it's like a monopoly or something; There's nothing wrong with a lil' competition with a Dollar General (I understand that it's basically the same store) or a Dollar Tree being thrown in there. I think the Mc Donalds is a good fit. I agree that something is better than nothing, and both Mc Donalds, and FD will be very profitable, as you mentioned with hardly nothing being in that immediate area.
Dollar General are popping up everywhere also. They are usually next door or across the street from Family dollar. I go to Dollar General quite often actually. I find stuff cheaper in their that is extremely high in the grocery store. ever since the downturn in the economy, business has been booming for those stores. And more than likely will be for a VERY long time at the rate this country is going. And I was actually talking to someone recently about the lack of fast food resturants downtown. I only have a 45 minute lunch. I hate leaving here and having to drive so far just to ride through the drive through, leave and come back to work and eat at my desk. When the one gets built downtown, I will be there quite often. As a downtown worker, there are never enough food options ;D
I can't understand people shop at Family Dollar when NONE of their shit are even one dollar like Dollar Tree.
For example, a recent visit to the Family Dollar shows that 2x of sponges cost $4.19 when I could buy Wal-Mart's pack of 2x sponges of the same kind for $3.69
KISS MY A$$, Family Dollar.
-Josh
Quote from: wsansewjs on June 26, 2012, 03:33:46 PM
I can't understand people shop at Family Dollar when NONE of their shit are even one dollar like Dollar Tree.
For example, a recent visit to the Family Dollar shows that 2x of sponges cost $4.19 when I could buy Wal-Mart's pack of 2x sponges of the same kind for $3.69
KISS MY A$$, Family Dollar.
-Josh
I said the same thing before, but then I realized, who cares? dollar tree does not have name brand stuff. Ive bought some of the off brand, boot legged food from there before and I will never again. Id' rather pay a dollar or two more at the other stores.
Quote from: duvaldude08 on June 26, 2012, 03:40:29 PM
Quote from: wsansewjs on June 26, 2012, 03:33:46 PM
I can't understand people shop at Family Dollar when NONE of their shit are even one dollar like Dollar Tree.
For example, a recent visit to the Family Dollar shows that 2x of sponges cost $4.19 when I could buy Wal-Mart's pack of 2x sponges of the same kind for $3.69
KISS MY A$$, Family Dollar.
-Josh
I said the same thing before, but then I realized, who cares? dollar tree does not have name brand stuff. Ive bought some of the off brand, boot legged food from there before and I will never again. Id' rather pay a dollar or two more at the other stores.
Why you buy food there? You should known better than that. I buy things at dollar tree that are going to be trashed or used fully. I will never buy any food from these stores. Sponges are expensive as an example, and they are going to be trashed / used up as well, so I think its cheaper to go these stores to acquire them to save money and still get the same benefits.
-Josh
Quote from: I-10east on June 26, 2012, 02:42:17 PM
I can care less if the layout of the Family Dollar, and Mc Donalds are so called 'suburban' style, or as I call it 'regular' style (It's not like they are deep in the heart on Laura St or something; Regular style planned buildings draw people, not deter them with bad parking situations) my beef is with all of these Family Dollars being built on the exact same corridor, with the most recent being the one on Kings Rd and Myrtle. Are we gonna be renamed Family-Dollarville?
Actually, what Family Dollar was allowed to do to New Town's main commercial intersection was horrible. There is clearly a particular historic scale and development pattern along Myrtle Avenue that was completely ignored. That type of building product would have never been allowed in a community like Riverside or San Marco. Family Dollar would get tar & feathered if they attempted to put that thing up in Shops of Avondale, San Marco Square or Five Points. Well, Kings Road and Myrtle Avenue are.....were....New Town's version of the districts mentioned above.
As for how things are constructed on State & Union, we should care. Those streets could easily become decent commercial corridors bringing several urban communities together instead of severing them. Having a Family Dollar, 7-11 or McDonald's aren't the issue. In this stretch, bringing together or further severing communities simply boils down to pedestrian scale site planning.
For example, If I had a choice, I'd rather see this type of McDonalds site layout on State Street
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/719190272_fBkCP-M.jpg)
Than this one....
(https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQV-06hSUr2mJCrGCbvMY7PCZNvHxqHl10sUx91dj8y-O__CtCFhA)
Same use, same building product but completely different vibe and interaction when placed in a district where there is a larger number of pedestrians.
Yes on state street the only thing they need to try to do is push the doors to the side walk.
Quote from: thelakelander on June 26, 2012, 03:56:31 PM
Quote from: I-10east on June 26, 2012, 02:42:17 PM
I can care less if the layout of the Family Dollar, and Mc Donalds are so called 'suburban' style, or as I call it 'regular' style (It's not like they are deep in the heart on Laura St or something; Regular style planned buildings draw people, not deter them with bad parking situations) my beef is with all of these Family Dollars being built on the exact same corridor, with the most recent being the one on Kings Rd and Myrtle. Are we gonna be renamed Family-Dollarville?
Actually, what Family Dollar was allowed to do to New Town's main commercial intersection was horrible. There is clearly a particular historic scale and development pattern along Myrtle Avenue that was completely ignored. That type of building product would have never been allowed in a community like Riverside or San Marco. Family Dollar would get tar & feathered if they attempted to put that thing up in Shops of Avondale, San Marco Square or Five Points. Well, Kings Road and Myrtle Avenue are.....were....New Town's version of the districts mentioned above.
As for how things are constructed on State & Union, we should care. Those streets could easily become decent commercial corridors bringing several urban communities together instead of severing them. Having a Family Dollar, 7-11 or McDonald's aren't the issue. In this stretch, bringing together or further severing communities simply boils down to pedestrian scale site planning.
For example, If I had a choice, I'd rather see this type of McDonalds site layout on State Street
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/719190272_fBkCP-M.jpg)
Than this one....
(https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQV-06hSUr2mJCrGCbvMY7PCZNvHxqHl10sUx91dj8y-O__CtCFhA)
Same use, same building product but completely different vibe and interaction when placed in a district where there is a larger number of pedestrians.
Lake,
What are the design standards for this particular corridor of downtown? Are they going to give them heck about the design, like they are doing about that proposed parking garage? I dont know much about this stuff that is why Im asking lol
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on June 26, 2012, 02:43:05 PM
Family Dollar and a McDonalds,, ok. I'm sure they'll line up for this.
you know they will
QuoteAs for Warren, he’ll be moving his used car business after 23 years on State Street.
“When we moved down here, we had about 90,000 people working downtown,†he said. “Now everybody’s moved to Deerwood. We used to sell 45-50 cars a month, now we’re doing nothing.
“And the dadgum taxes are out of sight.â€
He said he once paid $6,000 a year in property taxes, now it’s more than $28,000. He’s even got it broken down by the week: $543.
“The new mayor, he’s trying to rejuvenate it, and I think he probably will. But we can’t keep throwing dollars out on the street.â€
full article: http://jacksonville.com/business/2012-06-26/story/warren-motors-leaving-state-street-after-agreeing-sell-family-dollar
I hate to break it to him but I think it has more to do with the dealership just running its course and the porperty taxes going up, than it not being as many workers downtown. With the vehicle counts that comes through, he shouldnt have any problems selling cars. Warren motors used to be popular are one point and you would hear about them alot, then people just stopped buying there. I bought a car there in 2002 and I did not work downtown at the time. By word of mouth, somebody just told me to go check them out. Got a decent car, but after two years I had started problem after problem starting with the transmission ( I know that can happen with any used car, just saying).
Quote from: duvaldude08 on June 26, 2012, 04:55:14 PM
What are the design standards for this particular corridor of downtown? Are they going to give them heck about the design, like they are doing about that proposed parking garage? I dont know much about this stuff that is why Im asking lol
The property is just outside of downtown's borders (across the street) in a forgotten area that's literally a no-man's land. They have the flexibility to do just about whatever they want, in terms of site design, as long as they don't exceed 60' in height.
The property is zoned Commercial Community/General-2 (CCG-2) which is described in Section 656.313 of the zoning code.
QuoteD. Minimum lot requirements (width and area). None, except as otherwise required for certain uses.
E. Maximum lot coverage by all buildings. None, except as otherwise required for certain uses.
F. Minimum yard requirements.
(i) Frontâ€"None.
(ii) Sideâ€"None,
(iii) Rearâ€"Ten feet.
(iv) Where the lot is adjacent to a residential district without an intervening street, a minimum yard of 25 feet shall be provided along private property lines adjoining the residential district. No improvements other than landscaping, visual screening or retention may be permitted in the required yard.
G. Maximum height of structures. Sixty feet.
So the developer said that he wants the project done "right" and its important for the city. We will see what "done right" means.. hummmmm ;D
Quote
Downtown Family Dollar, McDonald’s could be completed by October
06/27/2012
by Karen Brune Mathis, Managing Editor
Developer J.J. Lamberson said Tuesday that pending permits, construction could be completed by October on the estimated $3.7 million Family Dollar and McDonald’s projects Downtown.
“The City has been working with us and we think we will have it permitted sometime in July,†said Lamberson, president of Twin Rivers Capital LLC and managing member of Market Street Retail LLC, which will own the property and lease to the two national retailers.
Lamberson is based in Charleston, S.C., and said his group is Family Dollar’s preferred developer in the Southeast.
Lamberson intends to buy the 1.6-acre site for the Family Dollar and McDonald’s projects at 233 E. State St. Warren Motors Inc. owns the property and operates a dealership there.
Warren Motors President Ellis Warren said Monday the dealership, which has operated at the site for 23 years, would move to Northwest Jacksonville.
Lamberson said he previously has bought other Warren property for Family Dollar development in Jacksonville.
Lamberson said he has developed 10 Family Dollar stores in the metropolitan Jacksonville area. The Family Dollar website, www.familydollar.com, shows 48 stores in Northeast Florida, including 43 in Duval County.
The Downtown location is north of State Street between Newnan and Market streets. Its northern border will be Orange Street.
Family Dollar was looking for a location in that area, Lamberson said.
“It started with them wanting to be in this general vicinity, but land is scarce and expensive,†Lamberson said. He said the Warren site “was one of the few spots we could find.â€
“Mr. Warren was one of the people we contacted who was willing to sell,†he said.
Lamberson said McDonald’s was interested in a store on part of the site, which helps to defray costs.
Misty Skipper, a spokeswoman with the Dalton Agency for McDonald’s, said Monday the company expected to start construction by early fall and open before the end of the year.
The McDonald’s website lists 25 restaurants in Duval County.
Lamberson said he has been working on the deal for a year and a half. The time included securing the land, undertaking due diligence, addressing environmental concerns and designing an appropriate plan for two national tenants to locate on the site.
He said it has been challenging.
“It will be a high-profile site and the City cares about it because it is Downtown and they wanted it done right, and we wanted to meet everybody’s expectations,†Lamberson said.
Lamberson said he plans to start demolition on the site as soon as permits are issued and he buys the property.
Lamberson said his group will own the site. Family Dollar will lease the building and land that it will occupy on the west side of the site, while McDonald’s will build its store and lease the land from Lamberson on the east side.
A drive will cut through the site between the two stores and connect State and Orange streets.
The McDonald’s will be across State Street from Burger King.
Lamberson said his group met several times with regulatory reviewers. “Everyone at the City was helpful,†he said.
“It seemed like they went the extra mile to help us in the right direction so we had a shot to get it approved,†he said.
Lamberson said his group has developed all of the Family Dollar stores in Jacksonville in the past five years or so. He said one was just completed and construction is under way on another.
He estimates he has developed up to 60 Family Dollars in the Southeast.
Most are build-to-suits, meaning Lamberson builds the project to Family Dollar’s specifications and the company leases them. He said some have then been sold to private investors.
He said Family Dollar has been moving toward owning its stores, paying a fee for development.
Lamberson said he began Family Dollar projects in Jacksonville in 2005-06.
“The company is doing extremely well and they were doing well before the economic downturn, doing better during the economic downturn and they are expanding rapidly,†he said.
Family Dollar is based in Matthews, N.C. It operates 7,200 stores in 45 states.
According to a Securities and Exchange Commission filing, Family Dollar states that its strategy is to provide customers “with value and convenience continues to attract a wide range of income†brackets, ethnicity groups and life stages.â€
“We serve the basic needs of customers primarily in the low- and middle-income brackets. Typically, our customer is a female head-of-household,†it said.
It said its core customer is a female head of household in her mid-40s making less than $40,000 a year.
As of Aug. 27, 2011, about 54 percent of its customers had an annual gross income of less than $40,000 and about 24 percent had an annual gross income of less than $20,000.
A Family Dollar store is typically between 7,500 and 9,500 square feet in size, averaging about 7,100 square feet of selling space. The State Street site plan shows a store about 9,000 square feet.
The Family Dollar SEC filing said its stores generally serve customers who live within 3-5 miles of the store.
About 63 percent of its stores were in strip malls, 35 percent in freestanding buildings and 2 percent were in downtown buildings.
“The relatively small size of a Family Dollar store allows us to select store locations that provide neighborhood convenience to our customers in each of these market areas,†it said.
The stores generally are open seven days a week and operate with the hours of 8 a.m. and 9 p.m.
Its merchandise focuses on core categories, such as health and beauty aids, packaged food and refrigerated products, home-cleaning supplies, housewares, stationery, seasonal goods, apparel and home fashions.
The majority of the products are priced at $10 or less, with about 22 percent priced at $1 or less. The average customer transaction was around $10 in the past fiscal year.
Company sales have been rising.
For the second quarter of fiscal 2012, the company said net income rose 10.7 percent to $136.4 million from $123.2 million the year before. The quarter ended Feb, 25.
Sales rose 8.6 percent to $2.46 billion from $2.26 billion. Comparable store sales, which are those open at least a year. Rose 4.5 percent.
During the first half of the fiscal year, the company opened 184 new stores and closed 36 stores.
“We are accelerating investments to become more relevant to a broader customer base. In the second half of fiscal 2012, we intend to further expand our assortment in key traffic-driving businesses and introduce new categories to capture a greater share of our customer’s
wallet,†said Howard Levine, chairman and CEO, in an SEC filing.
“As a result of these strategic sales-driving initiatives, we now expect that revenues will continue to accelerate throughout the rest of fiscal 2012.â€
kmathis@baileypub.com
@MathisKb
356-2466
Just saying... To the Family Dollar haters, I'd rather spend $4.19 in Family Dollar than 3.69 in Walmart. Time is money, I'm no super, super fan of Family Dollar, but I despise the city within a city Walmarts.
Quote from: acme54321 on June 26, 2012, 10:37:40 AM
I can't wait for the Family Dollar. Those modern steel buildings look just great, and they are so economical!
(http://www.urbantallahassee.com/v4/images/stories/renderings/2011/familydollarrendering.jpg)
Actually, Family Dollar, unlike Dollar General, usually builds an attractive store and they tend to use a lot of brick. If it's a metal building, you can't tell. Dollar General stores do have that metal garden shed look about them.
Great! 2 more places for the bums to congregate and harass paying patrons.
Quote from: BackinJax05 on June 29, 2012, 12:08:41 AM
Great! 2 more places for the bums to congregate and harass paying patrons.
Yeahhhh those scary homeless people just wont go away will they? How dare they ask us for money? Who do they thing they are ::)
Family Dollar/McDonald's site plan
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Other/mi/i-V3MbMbk/0/M/Family-Dollar-State-Street-M.jpg)
Would be nice if the Dollar store actually fronted one of the streets ...
This site is in a flood zone.
Terrible.
Say what you will about McDonald's and the Food, Inc. atmosphere that it feeds, so to speak, but they are creating a presence in downtown that other businesses have thus far have been afraid or unwilling to do. Let the marketplace decide if this McDonald's deserves to succeed or fail.
^I don't care about McDonalds being there, it's just a terrible site design. There are plenty of other businesses who have been successful downtown in downtown style buildings.
Okay.. That looks a little... Why isnt anything facing state street? Yeah I hope that is altered before they break ground because that is just crazy.
There's nothing in COJ's zoning code to drive the site development pattern any other way. This site officially falls between Springfield and downtown/DDRB's borders. Unless the family dollar developer wants to move the buildings closer to the street at his own dime, don't expect any changes.
Lake, who do we contact to discuss this design? This is directly across the street from Confederate Park and will have a significant impact on that public space.
It's "the space inbetween" so it's hard to say. Probably Gaffney, a DDRB member or the someone in the planning department for starters.
the problem is if it meets all standards, Planning Department staff will have to recommend approval.
^Bingo. I don't think there is much one can do since its being designed to standards accepted by COJ. The overall issue is our zoning code needs to be rewritten.
Anyone have any good books/websites on alternatives to land-use based/Euclidian zoning?
Quote from: thelakelander on August 19, 2012, 09:43:42 PM
^Bingo. I don't think there is much one can do since its being designed to standards accepted by COJ. The overall issue is our zoning code needs to be rewritten.
I do think we could all write
nice letters to the developer and the larger companies. I am and I don't expect much but hey you never know.
It looks like demolition of buildings on the site and removal of pavement has begun.
Kool. I saw on the daily record they got the permits a few days ago. Those should be built pretty quick.. Just hate the design. UGH
Hard to blame them for building as far away as possible from the raceway that is State Street. Would be nice if that at-grade highway was a little more ped friendly, though I understand the alternatives for getting people across DT are not all that attractive.
You can't blame the developer for anything. They're developing a site layout that our own public policies have encouraged them to develop. The structures they are building can be either autocentric or walkable, depending on the site layout. The zoning at this piece of property encourages autocentric site design.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 25, 2012, 11:24:34 AM
You can't blame the developer for anything. They're developing a site layout that our own public policies have encouraged them to develop. The structures they are building can be either autocentric or walkable, depending on the site layout. The zoning at this piece of property encourages autocentric site design.
+1
Quote from: thelakelander on October 25, 2012, 11:24:34 AM
You can't blame the developer for anything. They're developing a site layout that our own public policies have encouraged them to develop. The structures they are building can be either autocentric or walkable, depending on the site layout. The zoning at this piece of property encourages autocentric site design.
Design standards stop at the south edge of State Street. The north side of the street is not included....so ultra suburban designs are allowed.
Oops?
Yes. That site is considered no-man's land.
i am just happy to see it coming. Can't wait for it to open! They have been busy prepping the site for demolition.
I'm guessing it will be built very quickly. McDonald's locations seem to go up overnight sometimes.
It's supposed to be open before the end of the year.
Are there final conceptual drawings anywhere?
So the area between State St. and Springfield historic district is a minimum red tape zone? That could be a plus for economic development there.
Quote from: fsujax on October 25, 2012, 02:12:37 PM
i am just happy to see it coming. Can't wait for it to open! They have been busy prepping the site for demolition.
Same here. As a DT worker, I am sick of BK being the only fast food option. I will go for lunch as soon as it opens ;D Like the Family Dollar too. Regardless of how they look, they will be very convientent for me. I only have a 45 minute lunch so I can travel to far.
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on October 26, 2012, 09:39:56 AM
So the area between State St. and Springfield historic district is a minimum red tape zone? That could be a plus for economic development there.
No, it's just a loophole that makes it a suburban planning zone instead of an urban planning zone. Unless you really think car-centric suburban fast food restaurants are positive economic development for an urban core.
Here's the site plan. Family Dollar is on the left and McDonalds, the right.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/random-development/i-HbDdJ6C/0/M/McDonalds-Family-Dollar-M.jpg)
Also, here is a Family Dollar in development on Orlando's Colonial Drive. Same style building/scale, etc. but against the sidewalk.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/random-development/i-2TRnZ2K/0/M/Family-Dollar-Orlando-Colonial-M.jpg)
Although Colonial Drive would benefit from a streetscape, you can see how this zero setback development pattern builds a foundation for a walkable commercial corridor on a heavily traveled arterial highway.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1309750689_t44DXRB-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1309750767_K9cnkCz-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1309750577_FFRTQS4-M.jpg)
Also, here is a typical McDonald's Restaurant building in Louisville's Highland District that you'll find in any city. Nothing special, but a zoning ordinance with limited setbacks helps it interact with the sidewalk in a pedestrian friendly manner.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Louisville/i-Qr2HSQ2/0/M/P1240068-M.jpg)
^If the one block strip between State and Orange were a part of what the city considers downtown, like the parcels on the south side of State, then you would end up with the Louisville and Orlando examples.
Quote from: Tacachale on October 26, 2012, 10:26:02 AM
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on October 26, 2012, 09:39:56 AM
So the area between State St. and Springfield historic district is a minimum red tape zone? That could be a plus for economic development there.
No, it's just a loophole that makes it a suburban planning zone instead of an urban planning zone. Unless you really think car-centric suburban fast food restaurants are positive economic development for an urban core.
Urban and walkable is definitely better than car-centric suburban but would this developer be doing this RIGHT NOW if he had to do urban and walkable and get it reviewed and approved mutiple times by DDRB? I'm thinking easier and quicker is more likely to happen sooner and I say bring it on.
Quote from: duvaldude08 on October 26, 2012, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: fsujax on October 25, 2012, 02:12:37 PM
i am just happy to see it coming. Can't wait for it to open! They have been busy prepping the site for demolition.
Same here. As a DT worker, I am sick of BK being the only fast food option. I will go for lunch as soon as it opens ;D Like the Family Dollar too. Regardless of how they look, they will be very convientent for me. I only have a 45 minute lunch so I can travel to far.
Hell I was hoping for a new Krystal's, I wouldn't mind a couple of the old Stand-N-Snacks too. Greatest of all would be a downtown 'MILLIGANS', have to wonder what that would be like. I'm with you that having Mickey D's downtown IN ANY FORM is an improvement over another vacant lot. There is the 'politician's motto,' "Part of something is better then nothing at all..."
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on October 28, 2012, 10:30:23 AM
Urban and walkable is definitely better than car-centric suburban but would this developer be doing this RIGHT NOW if he had to do urban and walkable and get it reviewed and approved mutiple times by DDRB?
Yes. Just change the zoning regulation, leave the DDRB out of it and you have the same situation. Good design doesn't have to be difficult.
Demolition appears to be complete and site prep underway for construction.